Nice guys are the real "jerks" if you ask me

[SeymourCake]

Nice guys are the real jerks if you ask me. They put up a front, acting differently when talking to women, deceiving them into getting them into bed.

And if they fail to get them in bed with them, they go on the internet and rant about their misogynist views on women.

Real men act the same with everyone. They're not there to put up a front nor do they b**** about their failures with women.

 

[georgie24]

thread title should look like this:

"im a nice guy and when things backfire i lash out on the internet"

recognizing your beta traits is first steps to change for those who do want out of the beta cycle

 

[SeymourCake]

thread title should look like this:

"im a nice guy and when things backfire i lash out on the internet"

That had nothing do with my post. Go learn some reading comprehension skills and then come back to this forum.

 

[georgie24]

whats the point of this thread? advice? venting?

are you warning us on how condicending the nice guy can be?

takes one to spot one

 

[FiddyTweeCoins]

I often see in public (and listen to them complainin in a whiny tone) a lot of guys who heard "don't be a nice guy," so what they do is go to another extreme and try to intentionally be rude to people. A b*tch and a jerk can both be described as "rude/complaining/angry," so another name for a jerk is a "male b*tch." The equation is former "nice guy" becomes what he believes is a "jerk." Both are insecure/mentally weak/pathetic. Jerks are mentally still "Nice Guys."

 

[Who Dares Win]

There is an energy difference between an genuine jerk who is like that because its his nature and a burned former nice guy who try to be a jerk.

The genuine jerk has a positive energy, when he picks up girls and get rejected he really doesnt give a fvck about it, he stick to his plan,he does it because his positive drive push him to go get a girl and enjoy her.

The burned former nice guys who try to be a jerk and get rejected by a girl and try to get an other one right after, most of the times does it not to enjoy her but to punish the first one who didnt accept him.
Trying to pick up an other girl is not the prosecution of plan A but most likely a "punishment" to those who hurt him and made him fail.

The first acts out of desire and a positive drive, the second one acts out of negative feelings and girls can tell the difference as much as most of us if we bother to pay attention.

 

[SamTheHobit]

The so called 'nice guys' should try and increase their confidence instead of imitating a 'jerk'.

 

[zekko]

Nice guys are the real jerks if you ask me. They put up a front, acting differently when talking to women, deceiving them into getting them into bed.

And if they fail to get them in bed with them, they go on the internet and rant about their misogynist views on women.

Right. The "Nice Guys" PUAs talk about are NOT "guys who are nice". Anything but. That's one reason I don't like the whole nice guy/jerk dichotomy - the definitions are wrong. Their "jerk" is actually more genuinely "nice" than the nice guy.

But a new guy comes here and reads this stuff and think "Nice Guy" actually means "guy who is nice", and goes out of his way to become a sociopath. That's why I prefer AFC/DJ or even Alpha/Beta (although that one is flawed too).

I recall reading Tyler from RSD saying that he was displaying "@ssholish" behavior just by approaching. Because only a narcissist would have the nerve to think a girl might be interested in him. That's the standard of "@sshole" behavior PUAs talk about. Sorry, I've known real @ssholes, and simply approaching a girl does not make you one. Quite the contrary.

 

[ArcBound]

Right. The "Nice Guys" PUAs talk about are NOT "guys who are nice". Anything but. That's one reason I don't like the whole nice guy/jerk dichotomy - the definitions are wrong. Their "jerk" is actually more genuinely "nice" than the nice guy.

But a new guy comes here and reads this stuff and think "Nice Guy" actually means "guy who is nice", and goes out of his way to become a sociopath. That's why I prefer AFC/DJ or even Alpha/Beta (although that one is flawed too).

I recall reading Tyler from RSD saying that he was displaying "@ssholish" behavior just by approaching. Because only a narcissist would have the nerve to think a girl might be interested in him. That's the standard of "@sshole" behavior PUAs talk about. Sorry, I've known real @ssholes, and simply approaching a girl does not make you one. Quite the contrary.

I don't like the dichotomy either because people tend to think in binary, yes or no, and this leads to extreme cases. Oh I have to be nice so I must bend over backwards to please her. Oh she likes jerks, I'm just going to be a complete douchebag about everything in life. Oh I did one beta thing? Now I'm a complete beta, AFC. Oh I need to be alpha? Let me micromanage every little move down to my stance, clothing and everyday interactions. It's this kind of thinking that burns people out, gets them frustrated and most importantly doesn't get them results.

 

[Solomon]

Make no mistake that your value with women is in her perceptin of you. When I smile women think of me as a teddy bear or a sucker now a days. When I frown I'm looked as a big scary black guy, the dynamic is intersting

I'm a "Kind" guy I hate the word nice because in greek it means "naive". However even being kind, women take that for weakness. I see it in their eyes all the time when I approach them. Their eyes light up and I know what their thinking"sucker". They think this because, I'm not suppose to approach them(according to them, cause im not in their league, pfft)! they then ask me "You should buy me a drink?" lo and behold when I say no their expession are priceless, nothing gives me more pleasure then turning one of these women down :kick:

THe lowest form of value though is a man who a woman ask to buy him a drink after a minute or 30 seconds. A true "alpha" she actually would buy him one. It was just 3 years ago that I would meet women in the street and they would invite me with them to the club at the vip spots, or even make out with random women

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157813
^^^this is the level I wanna get back too, being fat and "kind" will not get you know where and being a jerk won't either

It's all about rasing your value!

 

[zekko]

very true that women take even real kindness for weakness.

I think that sounds a bit like paranoia. I can't agree with this because I've never seen any indication of it in real life.

 

[Solomon]

I think that sounds a bit like paranoia. I can't agree with this because I've never seen any indication of it in real life.

Zekko you have never had a woman try to take advantage of you for being "kind"?

Either your the "Super" ALpha that everyone here talks about and have women bending over at your beck and call, or you live in a closet and don't go out

 

[floydb25]

The real problem is everyone who sucks at dating / life, claims its because theyre nice - when the only person who believes them to be nice is themselves . Generally, when things dont go their way - they cry about how NGs finish last - when theyre not even nice. Theyre selfish and only care about their needs - then whine when it doesnt work out in their favor.

The reason so many jerks act like nice guys is because theyre all former nice guys. They didnt change at the core, so all of those traits they ALWAYS HAD are still intact. Theyre the same person - just of another extreme. Thats why every jerk whines about everyone, and plays the victim. Just like before. Its all just a means of presenting themselves as honorable and better than all the evil jerks - when theyre no better. They just use woman-like tactics to undermine and deceive people. When that doesnt work, they become aggressive jerks to achieve their selfish needs instead - while still whining about everyone, and claiming to be nice and misunderstood .

Thats you put no heart into what people claim. They will always be good and honorable and everyone else will be evil and selfish. Everyone is always the victim in their minds.


I hate people. Especially the ones who designed this console.

 

[Mike32ct]

This is the reason why c&f is horrible for recovering nice guys. Women can since an underlying hostility when a frustrated guy "tries" to make fun of them. This can make it backfire.

A true jerk can say seemingly mean things to a girl, but she doesn't necessarily interpret it as mean because he usually isn't coming from a place of hating women.

(There is also a looks component too. Girls find hot guys to be "funny." If you aren't good looking, women aren't a good audience for your jokes.)

There is an energy difference between an genuine jerk who is like that because its his nature and a burned former nice guy who try to be a jerk.

The genuine jerk has a positive energy, when he picks up girls and get rejected he really doesnt give a fvck about it, he stick to his plan,he does it because his positive drive push him to go get a girl and enjoy her.

The burned former nice guys who try to be a jerk and get rejected by a girl and try to get an other one right after, most of the times does it not to enjoy her but to punish the first one who didnt accept him.
Trying to pick up an other girl is not the prosecution of plan A but most likely a "punishment" to those who hurt him and made him fail.

The first acts out of desire and a positive drive, the second one acts out of negative feelings and girls can tell the difference as much as most of us if we bother to pay attention.

 

[Scars]

This is the reason why c&f is horrible for recovering nice guys. Women can since an underlying hostility when a frustrated guy "tries" to make fun of them. This can make it backfire.

A true jerk can say seemingly mean things to a girl, but she doesn't necessarily interpret it as mean because he usually isn't coming from a place of hating women.

(There is also a looks component too. Hot guys have girls laugh at most anything. Ugly guys struggle to make women giggle, but that's another topic.)

Quoted for truth.

-Scars

 

[zekko]

Zekko you have never had a woman try to take advantage of you for being "kind"?

Well, I've had women try to press me into orbit before, when I was young and inexperienced. But as far as wanting to borrow $100 to pay their rent, wanting me to paint their house, or something like that, no not really.

A couple of things though:
1) I've never made any claim of being "kind". I'm actually fairly selfish, although I'm not proud of that.
2) People can only take advantage of you if you let them. When I was raised, you were taught not to let people disrespect you.

Anyway, if you look at your example, you might notice your story contains no real instance of you being "kind". The closest to being kind I can find is that you approached her in the first place - but Tyler Durden says this is being "@ssholish".

"However even being kind, women take that for weakness. I see it in their eyes all the time when I approach them. Their eyes light up and I know what their thinking"sucker". They think this because, I'm not suppose to approach them(according to them, cause im not in their league, pfft)! they then ask me "You should buy me a drink?" lo and behold when I say no their expession are priceless"

I'd also say that I don't think a woman asking you to buy her a drink is necessarily taking advantage of you. Maybe it's the only way she knows how to get to know you. I have seen girls take advantage of guys this way though - asking them to buy her a drink, then taking off with it into the crowd without so much as a thank you, laughing all the way.

this is the level I wanna get back too, being fat and "kind" will not get you know where and being a jerk won't either

Between "fat" and "kind", I'd say "fat" is the problem.

you're double my age, maybe that's why it's less prevelant in your life. I don't mean all women but a lot. Where do you think the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy comes from? I swear there is a lot of contrarians around here these days...

I'm the leader of the contrarians
Seriously, I'm not going to swallow any line of bullsh!t someone hands me just because some pickup guru decided it was true.

Anyway, I don't believe in the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy, at least not on the face of it. For several reasons:

1) First off, the "Nice Guy" PUAs talk about is not a nice guy at all, rather he is a simpering, manipulative, supplicating, pedestalizing wimp with no balls. That has nothing to do with being genuinely "nice", "kind", or respectful of other people's right to exist.

2) I've never lost a girl to a bad boy type. If they are so irresistable, why hasn't this happened? In fact, I've taken girls from bad boy types. Bad boys are losers, that's how I see them.

3) There is a type of girl who goes for the bad boy type, but these girls are low quality gutter trash. They are not the type of girls I go for. I'm sure the clubs that PUAs frequent are full of these girls though. I'm fairly picky about the type of women I hang out with.

4) PUAs would have you believe that any display of confidence makes you a jerk. I reject this line of thinking completely. Confidence, masculinity, and bold action make you a man, not a "bad boy". They are good traits, not "bad". And it is better to be a "man" than a "boy" in any case. A real bad "boy" is immature by definition.

 

[st_99]

They put up a front, acting differently when talking to women.

this is just fear based, fear that they are not good enough, fear that they are not worthy, fear that the girl doesn't like them.

i wouldn't say that makes them a jerk, its just misguided. thats all.

 

[Solomon]

Well, I've had women try to press me into orbit before, when I was young and inexperienced. But as far as wanting to borrow $100 to pay their rent, wanting me to paint their house, or something like that, no not really.

A couple of things though:
1) I've never made any claim of being "kind". I'm actually fairly selfish, although I'm not proud of that.
2) People can only take advantage of you if you let them. When I was raised, you were taught not to let people disrespect you.

^^agreed with that but that doesn't mean these vipers won't try to play you for a sucker either. Women never tried this when I was in "Top form" now that I'm a fattie its intersting to see how they view me
Anyway, if you look at your example, you might notice your story contains no real instance of you being "kind". The closest to being kind I can find is that you approached her in the first place - but Tyler Durden says this is being "@ssholish".

Whenever I approach a woman I'm respectfull and courtoues I never approach a woman the way Tyler does. Not saying what he does is wrong but my "Game" isn't calibrated that way. I prefer to go indirect and qualify, although I have gone direct in the pass and its saved me time and trouble


I'd also say that I don't think a woman asking you to buy her a drink is necessarily taking advantage of you. Maybe it's the only way she knows how to get to know you. I have seen girls take advantage of guys this way though - asking them to buy her a drink, then taking off with it into the crowd without so much as a thank you, laughing all the way.

If a woman is asking you to buy her a drink after 30 seconds, then yes she is trying to take advantage of you. In 30 seconds she may know my name at best, it's a red flag. Did women of your generation ask for a drink after 30 seconds? I know back in the day buying a drink wasn't looked as "simpery" and actually got you points. I know women Zeeko who go out looking for guys to buy them drinks. They tell me their dubious tales, it's really sad actually


Between "fat" and "kind", I'd say "fat" is the problem.

Ditto, hence I'm in the gym every day like a dirty sock :woo:
.

This generation of women don't like "nice" guys. It's evident by

All the single mothers
women choosing careers over marriage
The rise of sluts

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=197150
^^This isn't just a fascade its happening right now and its real

Just saying

 

[zekko]

Whenever I approach a woman I'm respectfull and courtoues I never approach a woman the way Tyler does. Not saying what he does is wrong but my "Game" isn't calibrated that way. I prefer to go indirect and qualify, although I have gone direct in the pass and its saved me time and trouble

Check out this thread from RSD. There's a post there from a guy who went to a Hot Seat and observed Tyler's game in person. His impression was that Tyler's game is to be "chill, innocent, and friendly". That makes sense to me, but that's a far cry from how he might describe it as being "@ssholish" or all this other hard@ss crap that people try to get you to buy into.

http://www.rsdnation.com/node/239898/forum?page=1

As for girls asking for drinks, I said that some girls do this to take advantage of guys. I'm just saying I don't think all girls are doing it to take advantage, they're just conditioned that it's part of the mating game. Although I could care less, since I don't currently drink or have any interest in going into bars now. Back when I did go to bars, the girls I did buy drinks for were girls I knew and they would buy for me too.

I do agree that there are most likely more low quality girls around now as opposed to when I was younger, and therefore probably more skanks who would be attracted to bad boy types. I would expect that since the country has increasingly been losing all moral center - fall of Rome and all that. But I know the concept of "morality" is a direct enemy of the PUA movement, so I will stop writing now before someone gets all offended and butthurt.

 

[Solomon]

I did buy drinks for were girls I knew and they would buy for me too.

I do agree that there are most likely more low quality girls around now as opposed to when I was younger, and therefore probably more skanks who would be attracted to bad boy types. I would expect that since the country has increasingly been losing all moral center - fall of Rome and all that. But I know the concept of "morality" is a direct enemy of the PUA movement, so I will stop writing now before someone gets all offended and butthurt.

You actally being up a hyporciritcal point of the seduction community, guys whining about feminism, yet the same femnism allowed this PICK UP ARITST to get easy/fast ass.

Or you have guys wanting to get married but still want easy ass

It's like Rollo says "Every guy wants a slut, just to be his slut" but they also want a "quality" girl

:crackup: