Newb story: Calling girls out on "ghosting" feels liberating

[MoreThanSmooth]

Just a quick story from me. Disclaimer: I'm not some elite PUA ladyslayer (quite the opposite at the moment) and I'm not going to pretend I am, so if I sound incompetent with my early attitude towards these girls here, it's probably because I was. I have tons to learn.

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I've had a few first dates recently that I felt at the time went great. Lots of laughing, lots of eye contact, intelligent conversation, lots in common, good flirting. I had a couple of girls keep bringing up stuff we should do next week on the first date.

Sometimes a kiss at the end but if not, I still got a big hug each time and a seemingly genuine "[MyName], you're cool and I totally want to go out for drinks next week." Pretty sweet, right?

So I was pretty miffed when three of these girls then completely ignored my follow up text, or replied once to tell me how wonderful it was and then ignored me when I mentioned the next date.

I don't mind this if the date was a total disaster, that's fair. On the other hand getting BSed on a "great" date into thinking there's some promise there feels frustrating. It just feels like the chick doesn't have the ladyballs to honestly turn me down for the second date.

The first two times, I just deleted them from my phone and moved on. But it felt unsatisfying in the back of my mind, like I was somehow at fault myself for getting no closure after these "good" dates. The third time? The third time I thought I'd try growing some balls and mentioning it.

This girl was really hot, but slow at texting. After a week of stony silence from this chick after I posed the second date question, I went to delete her from contacts. But my irritation got the better of me. I sent a message first. I kept it pretty polite, which I think is only right.

Me: "Hey, you had a great time with me, right? I suppose you've been very busy because you didn't ever get back to me. That's a shame, best of luck finding your dream dude in future X"

Instant read. This time...instant reply.

Girl: "I'm really so sorry, it was so rude of me not to reply. I really liked our time together but I wasn't sure we had chemistry. We could do something again? This weekend?"

Me: "Well, thanks for being honest. It's far better to have a straight rejection, lots of girls just drop a guy these days. Good luck with your next one."

She was typing something, probably for that second date...but boom, deleted. Game over. -1 hottie, +1 dignity.

I know it sounds petty considering it's not like I actually got laid, but it felt really great to get an apology out of her for that lame behaviour. It was like I was sewing my nuts back on after having them sneakily snipped off the previous two times.

So any other new guys that get this kind of conflicting, irritating behaviour, I would say 100% call it out respectfully. And then don't bother with her again.

(Veterans here feel free to disagree with my advice, lol)

 

[wifehunter]

Get used to it, until you've graduated from 'plate' status.

 

[skinnyguy]

I honestly don’t ask women out unless they are throwing themselves at me.

When I would ask women out who were half interested, I’d get ghosted 100% of the time. Even though they said they were enjoying my company, when I was not around they were getting pounded by some Chad.

Now, a PUA would ask out any woman regardless of interest level but that just feeds their ego and makes them even worse. I’m willing to pass up potential lays with hotties in order to find a girl who won’t play games.

Good for you OP. Too many women get away with bad behavior these days.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Other than self-satisfaction (which can be rewarding), if a girl is not responsive to texts or doesn't reply when asked out again, 80-90% of the time it's low interest. I suppose no harm no foul if you ask her again, but if a man is going to stick his balls out to ask a woman out and probably plan and pay for the date, the mature "right" thing to do would be to give him a f*ucking straight answer. But we know the world doesn't work this way. So, playing the percentages, I usually just go NC. Actions speak louder than words and silence is louder than anything.

Now, I have called people out in business for this bull s*hit. You meet, spend time with them, work on and email a proposal and they NEVER return a phone call or email. I own my own business so f*ck them at this point. For the cases where I have called people out 98% have replied with some BS answer--but it does elicit a reply which always gives me a smile. And that is liberating and fulfilling.

 

[RangerMIke]

I never call our chicks for this. It is a waste of time and you will either get some BS response, or she will just get ticked at you and start tossing out insults... then she will go around telling her friends what a little b!tch you are.

@Amante Silvestre response is an exception... it was a long distance thing anyway, with a chick too stupid to realize you were not interested in a relationship (like that could fvcking happen... long distance) I have a long distance fvck buddy. She rolls into town 2 or 3 times a year, she travels a lot in her job. I'm sure she has dudes like me all over the place... This started about 5 years ago, and at first she was worried that I would be some stalker, once she realized what I wanted... she was fine.

 

[derby1]

Sometimes a kiss at the end but if not, I still got a big hug each time and a seemingly genuine

you should be isolating and escalating to sex within 2-3 hours OP,
You let a woman hug or kiss ya on the cheek,......its game over hence why your ghosted

ive been ghosted twice its ****ing awful if you already suffer with ya mental health, imagine 5 dates in, shes phoning you 4 times a day all over ya, your confident theres nothing else you could do to perfect your strategy then ....POOF shes gone leaving the last message on read blue ticks

you should really only be calling chicks out on there BS who have took your ****,

calling a chick out you havent even made out with isnt good OP, shes not emotionally invested in you so wont give a flying fck

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

you should be isolating and escalating to sex within 2-3 hours OP,
You let a woman hug or kiss ya on the cheek,......its game over hence why your ghosted

ive been ghosted twice its ****ing awful if you already suffer with ya mental health, imagine 5 dates in, shes phoning you 4 times a day all over ya, your confident theres nothing else you could do to perfect your strategy then ....POOF shes gone leaving the last message on read blue ticks

you should really only be calling chicks out on there BS who have took your ****,

calling a chick out you havent even made out with isnt good OP, shes not emotionally invested in you so wont give a flying fck

2-3 hours...heh...more like 2-3 months for me, lol. Yeah I will admit that I am totally s**t at escalating flirty behaviour on a first date, even if it went really well verbally. It's quite rare I go for a full smooch, which is obvs quite a mistake. Pretty much every girl that's turned down a second date tells me something like "I didn't feel passion" on the date. I find that kind of stuff far easier on a second date for some reason. One of my biggest dating weaknesses is the physical stuff.

I remember about 3 years ago I had this gorgeous girl just casually resting her legs on me on a coffee date and I still didn't go for a kiss, what a kn*b...

Anyway I sort of agree that calling a girl on ghosting is arguably a waste of time, yes. But personally the time wasted is balanced out by the fact that I feel better making a girl realise her behaviour is sh*tty. Not only does it possibly save some other poor lad the same experience, it also shifts you mentally away from "Damn WTF went wrong on that date? Will she text me?" to "Ha, I knew she was ghosting, f*** that, onto one that's worth my time."

 

[Bible_Belt]

Women are actually trying to be nice when they ghost you, believe it or not. They think that is kinder than an explicit rejection. Rather than argue the point, just accept that is how women think.

I think you might be having problems because you are not touching the girl enough on your date. Casual contact on the leg or arm will let her tell you how she feels - she will either shrink away or cozy up to you. That's really all you need to gauge interest, and whether or not you should escalate. The girl who wants you to touch her also wants you to kiss her.

 

[derby1]

Women are actually trying to be nice when they ghost you, believe it or not.

it tells you more about the woman than it does about yourself , im ofcourse on about women you have built rapport with and perhaps had sex, infact theyve proved themselves for what they are

*Low Value disrepectful Neurotic messes,

 

[Red Legg]

I agree with it 100%.

There have been many instances where I decided to call a girl out on her "ghosting" behavior, only to find that she assumed something entirely different than what the situation really was.

I had a woman fly in to spend the weekend with me some time back. Like you, we had a solid connection and all that sh*t. Weekend went great. Lots of sex, etc.

When she went back home, she suddenly went cold on me. I called it out a lot like you did. No desperation whatsoever. Totally cool with it. But just curious.

Turns out she was "iffy" on the long distance thing and assumed I was looking for a relationship. I told her I was open to such a thing but not aiming for that. In fact, I actually agreed with her concerns. I felt exactly the same way. I told her it could be whatever she wanted it to be. No expectations.

It turned into a mutually agreed upon FWB situation with some ground rules.

That would have never developed if I had stuck to the typical advice of "next her", "ghost", go "NC", etc.

^^^^ Spot on...the DJ Bible is only a guideline.When I caught my LTR talking to other men or breaking the " exclusivity agreement" we had I was honest with her and did not "ghost" or "next" her because we had so much fun together. I simply negotiated a FWB with her,if you have a deep connection with her it's possible.We still say we love each other even.Communication is KEY...I will never understand why some so-called DJ's are so quick to next over the slightest of infractions,you just may have gone NC and lost years of fun and sex just because your ego got bruised.In my situation we have white hot steamy sex,and enjoy each other company.

 

[marmel75]

Why would you be surprised when you didnt escalate at all in date? She has tons of dudes just like you to choose from. Dudes who she spends time with and never make any moves.

Why would she want to repeat that again?

Instead of wasting time with this nonsense escalate in date so it stops happening.

 

[TheFixer14]

Women who ghost just don't have social skills.

Good on you OP. I called out some chick who has been f**king with me today. Made me feel a little better.

 

[TheFixer14]

Why would you be surprised when you didnt escalate at all in date? She has tons of dudes just like you to choose from. Dudes who she spends time with and never make any moves.

Why would she want to repeat that again?

Instead of wasting time with this nonsense escalate in date so it stops happening.

You know what's funny? I hear on the flip side that too much touch shows that your needy and that you should get a women to initiate touch.

I suppose it's about know when to touch, how long and when to get off before her wall come up. Though, it's better to be too touchy early on than to have no touch at all.

 

[BeExcellent]

Hot women have so many options that you have to stand out somehow.

Confidence and sexualizing an interaction can communicate covertly that you are familiar with hot women rather than intimidated. Women read a man's subcontext subconsciously. If a woman gets the message through your behavior that you are comfortable and at ease with her (through eye contact, touch & banter) she will reflect that comfort back to you....even if her intrinsic initial interest was low.

Her interest can actually increase due to your behavior.

If you are afraid or too uncertain to touch her, banter or sexualize (through kino, eye contact etc., sweet talk) the interaction, then her read about you will default to:

I'm out of his league. (Be polite, never see him again.).

So your behavior on the date has everything to do with the outcome. Your behavior and subcontext either builds attraction or kills it. There is no middle ground.

I know OP feels better via calling this girl out, but his text is whiny and would make me think...thank God I got away from that desperate dude. I'll never give him the time of day.

At least in silence you retain some mystery & dignity.

It's tough love here & no offense intended. As a hot chick a text like that would send me packing post haste.

The text is ego protecting. Just learn & move on. Next!!

 

[marmel75]

You know what's funny? I hear on the flip side that too much touch shows that your needy and that you should get a women to initiate touch.

I suppose it's about know when to touch, how long and when to get off before her wall come up. Though, it's better to be too touchy early on than to have no touch at all.

Yeah if you do it wrong you will look desperate. But you'll never learn how to do it right until you've done it wrong a bunch of times and made the corrections needed.

You cant succeed until you fail. People who are afraid to fail in reality are only preventing themselves from succeeding.

 

[derby1]

What kind of ghost scenario are you lot on about though, they faded

know they sometimes do it out of confusion & uncertainty, hesitation....sometimes even fear, even when the IL is still there. That's the purpose in pushing that envelope just a little bit further

ok so for instance i went out with a girl for 5 weeks 5 dates, absolutely brilliant, she was blowing my phone up day and night bought me 40 pounds worth of gifts on the 5th date, had her mom on a 3 way playful convo on the 5th date, then boom GONE

dont think there was anyother guy in the picture someones told me she runs when she gets the feelings!!

shall i try reach out message? what shall i put?

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

With all of the options you have to chose from, would you have gone out with him again had he never sent such a text? Would it have made a difference? I think not.

You are looking at this purely from the perspective of a woman with a low IL. And yes, in such a case, a man sending such a text is futile. But that is not the point. The point is not to send a text to win her interest back. It is to ensure she is "ghosting" because of a low IL. That is why I will sometimes do such a thing when I have an intuitive feeling it is worth a shot.

It is extremely narrow to believe that all women ghost for precisely for the same exact reason: a low IL. I know they sometimes do it out of confusion & uncertainty, hesitation....sometimes even fear, even when the IL is still there. That's the purpose in pushing that envelope just a little bit further. To find out if that is the case. And I have found, on several occasions, that's what it was.

Spot on mate

I didn't really want a second date with this girl because I felt dissed by the wall of silence anyway. But sending that text confirms whether she's genuinely interested and just slipped up (in which case you can get a second date and she'll probably want to make amends) or whether she was just jerking your chain. And if she was jerking your chain, she doesn't get to end that behaviour feeling like "Ha, I just ditched that loser. E-Z! LOL!". Instead she gets called out and ends it wondering if she just lost something with a guy with value.

Remember she insta-texted back when I called her out too. Which suggests some sort of renewed interest I think.

Anyway, it's kind of like a quick dating diagnostic before I chuck it all in the rubbish and NEXT.

 

[The Duke]

I've seen it go every which way. In my younger days I would call them out on their rude/disrespectful behavior and usually piss them off. Made for good entertainment. Women hate being held accountable for their schitty actions. Heaven forbid anyone would expect them to be respectful and show some decent social manners!

I've also been patient and approached these situations in a "professional" manner and not pissed them off and got another few weeks of dating out of the deal.

These days, I don't care enough about most women to even get excited until they have proven themselves to me. If they want me, they need to convince me they are worthy of my time. The older I get, the pickier I get, and the less effort I put forth.

In every one of these scenarios it is low interest(uncertainty) on the woman's part. These days, I don't care to have women that don't have super high interest in me. I'm not desperate for sex, and I have other things I enjoy more than women. Do I miss out on some.......yep I sure do. But having the attitude I do is a great filter for flakey women, low interest women.

In the end, these flakey women that never change their schitty disrespectful behavior end up lonely when their looks run out! Its the ultimate satisfaction as a man to see happen! They have to date lesser and lesser men until eventually there are none.

Most aren't smart enough to act right, they'd rather explore their perceived endless options and fail to address their issues.

 

[Roober]

Hot women have so many options that you have to stand out somehow.

Confidence and sexualizing an interaction can communicate covertly that you are familiar with hot women rather than intimidated. Women read a man's subcontext subconsciously. If a woman gets the message through your behavior that you are comfortable and at ease with her (through eye contact, touch & banter) she will reflect that comfort back to you....even if her intrinsic initial interest was low.

Her interest can actually increase due to your behavior.

If you are afraid or too uncertain to touch her, banter or sexualize (through kino, eye contact etc., sweet talk) the interaction, then her read about you will default to:

I'm out of his league. (Be polite, never see him again.).

So your behavior on the date has everything to do with the outcome. Your behavior and subcontext either builds attraction or kills it. There is no middle ground.

I know OP feels better via calling this girl out, but his text is whiny and would make me think...thank God I got away from that desperate dude. I'll never give him the time of day.

At least in silence you retain some mystery & dignity.

It's tough love here & no offense intended. As a hot chick a text like that would send me packing post haste.

The text is ego protecting. Just learn & move on. Next!!

Thank you! Glad someone said it before me...

You went on a date @LessThanSmooth and you didn't make her pvssy tingle, therefore she felt no need to reach back out. Your ego was insulted and you came across as needy.

You really need to work on your inner game more to the point where you REALLY don't care if you hear from them again. You are basing your happiness on their reactions to you. I guarantee you, she doesn't give a fvck about you. She was merely being polite to protect your fragile ego.

If a woman doesn't react, tweak your game, tweak your approach, and try again...

@Amante Silvestre Your situations is completely different as you spent a weekend and bedded this woman. There was obviously a bit more intimacy there than a first or second date

And please change your handle.. Lessthansmooth? That wreaks of insecurity... Everything about you needs to project confidence, even something as simple as your handle

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

And please change your handle.. Lessthansmooth? That wreaks of insecurity... Everything about you needs to project confidence, even something as simple as your handle

Can you even change your handle on here? It was sort of as a tongue-in-cheek joke but I guess it does come across as self-deprecating.

But I don't think I was needy, personally. I wasn't like "Oh God please date me again I love you." That would be needy. She got nexted in the end