New Schedule: Check It Out

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Yo

Been training fvcking hard the last 2-3 months and made great progress for a while. Past week or 2 though, i've been hitting plateaus on a few exercises, so i've decided its time to completely mix up my schedule.

I've completely changed it in that i've gone from a 3 day to a 4 day split, with one or 2 new exercises.

Have a look, tell us what you think (i'm training for strength/muscle if you hadn't already guessed, and i'm about 78kg with just over a years total training behind me):


Mon: Shoulders & Triceps

Military Press/Arnolds ('/' = 'alternate from week to week') 3*(6-8)
i.e. 3 sets, each containing 6-8 reps
DB Lateral Raises/Cuban Press 2*(6-8)
Lying Close Grip EZ Curl Bar Triceps Press To Chin 3*(6-8)
Push ups w/hands together 2*(10-20)


Tue: Legs

Lying Hamstring Curls 3*12
BB Hack Squats 2*6, 1*20


Thu: Chest

DB Bench / Incline DB Bench Rest Pause
Dips 3*(8-10)
DB Bench/Incline DB Bench (whichever I haven't already done) 2*6 (w/less weight than i'd use at the start of the session)


Fri: Back & Biceps

Deadlift 1*4 (w/low weight), then 2*4
Curls w/arm curl bar 3*(6-8)
Wide grip overhand pull ups Rest Pause
Concentration Curls 2*(6-8)


That's it, advice appreciated, i'd particualrly welcome ideas for legs day cos i'm a bit short of ideas. I train at home so don't have access to leg press / cables / squat rack, so i'm fairly limited in what i can do for legs.

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Can't believe 27 people have read this and no-ones got a single opinion on it!

Bump!

 

[mrRuckus]

I don't think you need a whole new plan if you were making gains on the other one.

So you hit a plateau on a few exercises. take a break from those exercises and replace them with exercises for the same muscle group. Then when you plateau on those you can go back to the old ones.

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Cheers for the reply.

I'm gonna stick with the plan i've come up with for now though. I'm keen to give this new one a go cos it allows me to train chest and shoulders on different days - I felt with my old one that because i was always doing the Arnolds/military presses after doing the bench, that i was never able to train my shoulders to their full potential. It wasn't just cos of the plateau that i decided to change it about, perhaps i didn't explain it well enough.

Plus a lot of the exercises I'm actually keeping the same, it's only really the ones I've been stalling on that I'm switching or cutting out, like you suggested.

 

[spitkicker]

Hey man. something that you'll find over time is that lifting isn't about doing the BEST program, as there is no such thing, but rather, it is about getting your ass in the gym consistently.

If you have designed this program and think it will be fun for you and motivate you to keep at it, then switch it up and go with this new plan.

only thing that matters is that you string together a few months/years of consistency and everything will fall into place.

Also, for a change of pace, vary rest periods within the same routine.

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Also, for a change of pace, vary rest periods within the same routine

I've heard something similar before but never tried it as yet.

I heard it from a mate I used to know (who was always in the gym and very muscular, so i'd take note of what he said), he trained by having very short and very long rest periods on alternate weeks to target size and strength respectively.

So say on weeks 1,3,5..., he'd use very short rest periods (like 30 secs) to target size.
On weeks 2,4,6..., he'd use very long rest periods (5 mins or summat) to target strength.
And so on.

Has anyone else heard of training like this, or can back up its value?

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Actually, now i think about, i think he used to vary the reps quite a bit as well.
So say on odd weeks, he'd target size by using higher reps (around 8) and shorter rest periods.
On even weeks, he'd target strength by using lower reps (4-6), heavier weights, and longer rest periods.

 

[Dimebag_Darrell]

my philosophy on weight lifting when I was in football was to have a different workout routine every week. I noticed that my run ins with plateus diminished by about 73% and my gains in muscle boosted dramatically as well. It keeps the muscles challenged.

 

[AgonyUncle]

Dude, after a year, moving to a four day split is a great way to go. Just ensure you keep you calorie intake high.

What are your set volumes?

Try and get 10-12 sets for pecs, back, quads per week. 6 sets for tri's and bi's and hams . 8 sets for delts and calves. Get abs in twice a week, 6 sets split over two exercises

Glad to see you not afraid of them compound movements. Keep those going.

Potential split.

Mon Chest/Bi's
Tuesday Back/Calves
Wed: Off
Thursday: Legs/Calves
Friday: Delts/Tri's
Sat: Off
Sun:Off

Try train bi's seperate to back, same goes for chest. If you are training at any intensity level, your bi's are coocked after a solid back workout. Same for tri's. You want to maximise your workload without overtraining.

 

[AgonyUncle]

Originally posted by Dimebag_Darrell
my philosophy on weight lifting when I was in football was to have a different workout routine every week. I noticed that my run ins with plateus diminished by about 73% and my gains in muscle boosted dramatically as well. It keeps the muscles challenged.

73%?

Now how the fvck did you come up with that EXACT figure.

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Try and get 10-12 sets for pecs, back, quads per week. 6 sets for tri's and bi's and hams . 8 sets for delts and calves. Get abs in twice a week, 6 sets split over two exercises

Hmmm, I'd agree with several things you said mate (4 day split, high calories, compound exercises), but I'm not sure about the number of sets you recommend. Reason being that I'm trying to stick to the principle of low volume, very high intensity - doing the number of sets you recommend would certainly not be low volume.

For the record, these are the number of sets I'm doing per bodypart per week (these are based on the assumption that rest pause counts as 3 sets, and that I'm only counting the main muscle group worked in an exercise [eg for dips, i'm only counting triceps, even though pecs are worked as well] - is this how you calculate it?):

Pecs 5
Back 6
Quads 3
Triceps 8
Biceps 5
Hamstrings 3
Delts 5
Calves 0


Couple other things I'd query:

Your recommendation to not train biceps with back. I wouldn't say my back workout of deadlifts and wide grip overhand pull ups has that much of an adverse effect on my biceps exercises.

And also, how would you recommend training calves without a machine or a squat rack? I used to work them on the machine when I was a member of my uni gym and got good results, now I train at home though, I've stopped because of the lack of equipment. I've tried a few other calf exercises (using DBs, sitting with barbells on knees etc) but tbh, they seem pretty rubbish!

 

[semag]

your current training and such sounds good to me GGTFB, and you've got a good handle on what you're doing. You've got the know-how and experience to see kind of what works and what doesn't, and if you don't know, maybe try it....

keep it up bro.

 

[AgonyUncle]

Originally posted by GodsGiftToFatBirds
Hmmm, I'd agree with several things you said mate (4 day split, high calories, compound exercises), but I'm not sure about the number of sets you recommend. Reason being that I'm trying to stick to the principle of low volume, very high intensity - doing the number of sets you recommend would certainly not be low volume.

For the record, these are the number of sets I'm doing per bodypart per week (these are based on the assumption that rest pause counts as 3 sets, and that I'm only counting the main muscle group worked in an exercise [eg for dips, i'm only counting triceps, even though pecs are worked as well] - is this how you calculate it?):

Pecs 5
Back 6
Quads 3
Triceps 8
Biceps 5
Hamstrings 3
Delts 5
Calves 0


Couple other things I'd query:

Your recommendation to not train biceps with back. I wouldn't say my back workout of deadlifts and wide grip overhand pull ups has that much of an adverse effect on my biceps exercises.

And also, how would you recommend training calves without a machine or a squat rack? I used to work them on the machine when I was a member of my uni gym and got good results, now I train at home though, I've stopped because of the lack of equipment. I've tried a few other calf exercises (using DBs, sitting with barbells on knees etc) but tbh, they seem pretty rubbish!

Training at home makes training calves a bit more difficult. Your one option would be to grip dumbells, and do standing raises on a step.

With regards to volumes of training, when I say 6 sets on bi's, Im talking about exercises focused on that particular muscle group only.

Low Volume, High Intensity training is all the rage these days. And it makes sense in principle. But there is low volume high intensity the way the fat bastards and cardio *****s are doing it, and then there is low volume, high intensity the way Dorian Yates and uncle Mike do it.

Mike Mentzer's low volume training is hardcore. The intensity levels he suggests are a lot harder then the cardio *****s actually believe they are training at. They love it because they think they can get great results with minimal effort. Results are there, but they are no where near what they could be.

Simple rules of muscle building. You tear em down in the gym, they grow when you are between your training sessions. As your level advances, you either need to increase your workload or up your intensity level.

Now doing 20 exercises for your back in the same day is stupidity (although I would admire your work ethic) But 6 sets is just not enough work IMHO. Its a massive muscle group. 6 sets is gonna tickle it a bit, but I cant see it really doing enough work to encourage growth.

You need to do what works for you though. If you feel you are growing with your current workloads, THEN DONT CHANGE THEM. It would be silly to do this. Rather change your exercises, your rep ranges and your rest intervals.

 

[GodsGiftToFatBirds]

Thanks everyone for the advice/support.

Low Volume, High Intensity training is all the rage these days. And it makes sense in principle. But there is low volume high intensity the way the fat bastards and cardio *****s are doing it, and then there is low volume, high intensity the way Dorian Yates and uncle Mike do it.

Yep. Agreed. I certainly wouldn't put myself in the first category, I push myself to (or very close to) the limit on every exercise, this is definately the benefit of using rest-pause. Be good if you could have a look at what I'm doing (see my training diary on this same forum, I've got every weights session I've done for the last 4 months on there), tell us if you think my intensity level is as high as you think it should be.

About what you said about 6 sets not being enough for back: I was actually doing 9 up to a couple of weeks ago (3 sets of deadlifts, 3 sets of heavy rows, 3 sets of overhand pull ups) but changed as I believed I was over-training.
I read a thread on here (sorry, can't remember the name) in which several guys said that deadlifts, rows and overhand pull ups in the same session was too much and, when i thought about it, I realised that I was getting a lot of soreness in my back, even 4 or 5 days after my back session. So I decided to cut down.

Guess thats the problem with this sort of board though - 2 people can give completely contrasting advice on the same topic. I'm gonna do a fair bit of research on back schedules, see what I can come up with.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by GodsGiftToFatBirds
About what you said about 6 sets not being enough for back: I was actually doing 9 up to a couple of weeks ago (3 sets of deadlifts, 3 sets of heavy rows, 3 sets of overhand pull ups) but changed as I believed I was over-training.

6 sets for back?

1 set does me just fine (sometimes 2 dependent on the exercise), thank you very much.

 

[semag]

i can see 6 sets being fine if you use certain exercises as "small exercises" otherwise known as "auxilary exercises."

for example, if you do a lat pull down, and fully isolate your lats... or if you do slow pull ups, you're not gonna be moving massive lbs of weight around, and you're also not stimulating a crapload of muscle.. .so you can do 2 sets of 10 and not be completely dead.

But... if you do a deadlift for several hundred lbs... for 6 singles off the floor, you're workin major muscles and you're gonna be damn tired.

 

[AgonyUncle]

Originally posted by GodsGiftToFatBirds
Thanks everyone for the advice/support.

Guess thats the problem with this sort of board though - 2 people can give completely contrasting advice on the same topic. I'm gonna do a fair bit of research on back schedules, see what I can come up with.

Agreed. Everyone is different. I need volume.

To be honest, sosuave is probablt one of the worst places to get fitness advice. Try www.bodybuilding.com's forums. There is a wealth of experience on that board.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by AgonyUncle
www.bodybuilding.com's forums. There is a wealth of experience on that board.

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[AgonyUncle]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

Compared to here?

Give me a break

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by AgonyUncle
Compared to here?

Give me a break

People here like manuva, MindOverMatter and semag know more about bodybuilding success than 90% of the guys on that board.

I'm not saying sosuave is intensemuscle when it comes to tips on getting huge, but I only go to bbing.com when I need a laugh.