new routine

[blackbelt2k]

So i was working out yesterday, doing my usual set of MWF deadlifts, when two of the competeing powerlifters in my gym ( who have sorta taken me under there wing) shunned me for lifting heavy 3x a week. They explained that because of my age (22) i might be able to get away with lifting heavy 2x a week, but it is better to lift heavy 1x a week, so as to give your CNS enough time to recover. Now, I tend to believe this, simply because
1) these guys are old (40s), and seem to have been around the block
2) they still compete
3) Great shape, and holy shiet they are strong, but not too big

So, I was thinking of changing my program to as follows:

Monday: Heavy lifts: squat, deads, press, bench, rows, shruggs
Wed: total body isolation work, exercises can vary week to week
Fri: Heavy again
sat & sun : beach and surfing, lol

Let me know what you guys think, (STRONG and EFFORT especially)

 

[mrRuckus]

There are simply too many variables for them to say this.

You can't break training into one day. You can't break it into nice week long little packages. It's a cumulative process - a constant struggle of tearing your body down bit by bit and letting it recover in MONTHS and YEAR long periods. Things aren't reset because it's Monday again. Your ability to do things several times "a week" is going to depend on what else you do, what you eat, and rest periods you take. Sometimes you want to drive your body into the ground for 4 weeks then take a few light weeks to recover. Looking at it as a week-by-week process is silly.

3 times a week indefinitely with time off never? Yeah, cns can't keep up forever.

They have no right to say that once a week is best. Wtf do they know? They maybe know what THEY can handle or what's best for them, but usually people don't even know what's best for themselves and they sure as hell can't tell you what will work best for you. Even the top trainers take a long time to figure out what's optimal for you when.

It's as simple as are you gaining at an acceptable rate with what you are already doing... and are you willing to risk WORSE gains by screwing around with what works? What you have posted looks like you could be beating up your smaller muscles a ton by using them 3 days a week. Compounds Monday and Friday are still creaming things like your biceps and triceps and then soon after you're hitting them again hard directly only to beat them up again with compounds on Friday? I don't know if you could last long like that. I sure wouldn't.

 

[simon]

If what you're doing is working well, don't change things.

 

[blackbelt2k]

Well i've been doing some research, what they say holds vaildity. To get stronger you have to let your body recover, and the more you train, the longer the recovery period becomes, since it gets harder to break homeostasis. I'm going to experiment.

 

[Quagmire911]

There are simply too many variables for them to say this.

They have no right to say that once a week is best. Wtf do they know? They maybe know what THEY can handle or what's best for them, but usually people don't even know what's best for themselves and they sure as hell can't tell you what will work best for you. Even the top trainers take a long time to figure out what's optimal for you when.

It's as simple as are you gaining at an acceptable rate with what you are already doing... and are you willing to risk WORSE gains by screwing around with what works?

Think the nail has been hit on the head. It is all relative to yourself, your specific recovery times, how much volume you can handle etc. Hardgainers are notorious for having ****ty recovery, can't handle much volume and their CNS gets wrecked very easily. Think I read a post by iron addict that some people do better on only one day a week low volume, however this wasn't the majority.

It's also relative to your level of training. Beginner, intermediate, advanced- calls for a lot of different protocols to be put into place. Again I have seen iron addict mention for example, world class deadlifters not performing deadlifts every single week as the body can't handle it. However then you see a lot of beginners doing 5x5 three times a week on starting strength squatting and they adapt quickly. There are many variables to consider, mostly based on your own individuality and level of advancement.

However, as Mr.Ruckus stated: If you are doing well on your current training, why tinker about with it in the first place? Only look to change training after you hit a rut and have been in that rut long enough to know that something else is not affecting your adaption.

Quagmire

 

[blackbelt2k]

well i've noticed my squats aren't really going up that much, deads are inching along too. But my presses have been greatly increasing , and i only do those once a week. Would that be considered a rut?

 

[Quagmire911]

well i've noticed my squats aren't really going up that much, deads are inching along too. But my presses have been greatly increasing , and i only do those once a week. Would that be considered a rut?

Need to see more info.

What are your numbers on the lifts etc, Squat 200x5?-That kind of thing.

Also how often you train each body part per week at the moment?

When was your last week off?

I would post your full weekly workout and then more tailored advice can be given.

How long has your dead and squat been inching along?

Also in your first post, I might be mistaken-did you say you were deadlifting three times a week>? If so then yes, I would say that is too much for the greater majority of people from my experience.

If that is the case, perhaps the men were meaning you to train each body part heavy once a week, which is pretty conventional. Again though, need more info, so post up your weekly training.

Quagmire

P.s.-Deads and squats should be going up quite a bit faster than bench long term, so that is a sign something isn't right.

 

[stronglifts]

So i was working out yesterday, doing my usual set of MWF deadlifts, when two of the competeing powerlifters in my gym ( who have sorta taken me under there wing) shunned me for lifting heavy 3x a week. They explained that because of my age (22) i might be able to get away with lifting heavy 2x a week, but it is better to lift heavy 1x a week, so as to give your CNS enough time to recover. Now, I tend to believe this, simply because
1) these guys are old (40s), and seem to have been around the block
2) they still compete
3) Great shape, and holy shiet they are strong, but not too big

So, I was thinking of changing my program to as follows:

Monday: Heavy lifts: squat, deads, press, bench, rows, shruggs
Wed: total body isolation work, exercises can vary week to week
Fri: Heavy again
sat & sun : beach and surfing, lol

Let me know what you guys think, (STRONG and EFFORT especially)

You're powerlifters are right. It's better to max one time a week. But it all depends on your current stats.

I'm currently doing a 3 day a week volume/recovery/intensity approach:
-Mon: volume 5x5, increasing weight every week (80% max)
-Wed: recovery 3x3, 10kg off monday (70% max)
-Fri: 8x1: heavy weight, but only singles (+90% max)

Example for the Power Cleans this week:
-Monday: 5x5 72,5kg
-Wednesday: 3x3 62,5kg
-Friday: 8x1 85kg

Body gets 25 reps on monday, but only 9 reps on wed/fr. Calculate your total volume (sets*reps*weight), & you'll see that monday is most stressing. The rest of the week is recovery/cns maintenance.

I don't know how you'd apply "heavy". Monday & Friday workouts are both heavy to me, but differently. Friday has more weight, but less reps. Monday has less weight but more reps.

 

[stronglifts]

There are simply too many variables for them to say this.

You can't break training into one day. You can't break it into nice week long little packages. It's a cumulative process - a constant struggle of tearing your body down bit by bit and letting it recover in MONTHS and YEAR long periods. Things aren't reset because it's Monday again. Your ability to do things several times "a week" is going to depend on what else you do, what you eat, and rest periods you take. Sometimes you want to drive your body into the ground for 4 weeks then take a few light weeks to recover. Looking at it as a week-by-week process is silly.

3 times a week indefinitely with time off never? Yeah, cns can't keep up forever.

They have no right to say that once a week is best. Wtf do they know? They maybe know what THEY can handle or what's best for them, but usually people don't even know what's best for themselves and they sure as hell can't tell you what will work best for you. Even the top trainers take a long time to figure out what's optimal for you when.

It's as simple as are you gaining at an acceptable rate with what you are already doing... and are you willing to risk WORSE gains by screwing around with what works? What you have posted looks like you could be beating up your smaller muscles a ton by using them 3 days a week. Compounds Monday and Friday are still creaming things like your biceps and triceps and then soon after you're hitting them again hard directly only to beat them up again with compounds on Friday? I don't know if you could last long like that. I sure wouldn't.

The trick is to start on a beginner routine. 3times a week, adding weight every workout. Beginners who apply this method faithfully achieve a 100kg squat in a 3-4month period.

As long as it works, as simon says, don't fix it. Once you can't get away with adding weight 3times a week, start doing it on a weekly basis. Until you can't. This can work for months again.

Next, go from 3days to 4days. Example: you're doing fullbody. But you're squats are so hard, you're bench press/overhead press is suffering. Then you can consider adding a day. upper/lower body splits.

There's nothing wrong with deadlifting more than 2 or 3 times a week. I'm doing deadlifts on a daily basis since the last 3 weeks (steve justa method). Adding weight every week, doing about 60 reps a week with weights at 70%. If you know what you're doing, you can get away with this kind of things.

-Increase weight every workout
-When you can't, increase weight every week, doing a volume/recovery/intensity approach

And btw, don't try to reinvent the wheel. The're are plenty of training programs available. For intermediates: bill starr & rippetoe's texas method work very well.

 

[blackbelt2k]

You're powerlifters are right. It's better to max one time a week. But it all depends on your current stats.

I'm currently doing a 3 day a week volume/recovery/intensity approach:
-Mon: volume 5x5, increasing weight every week (80% max)
-Wed: recovery 3x3, 10kg off monday (70% max)
-Fri: 8x1: heavy weight, but only singles (+90% max)

Example for the Power Cleans this week:
-Monday: 5x5 72,5kg
-Wednesday: 3x3 62,5kg
-Friday: 8x1 85kg

Body gets 25 reps on monday, but only 9 reps on wed/fr. Calculate your total volume (sets*reps*weight), & you'll see that monday is most stressing. The rest of the week is recovery/cns maintenance.

I don't know how you'd apply "heavy". Monday & Friday workouts are both heavy to me, but differently. Friday has more weight, but less reps. Monday has less weight but more reps.

Lol, thats almost exactly the routine they gave me

 

[Slone]

I do two max effort lift days a week and 2 dynamic effort days a week. I've had much better strength gains since switching to lifting heavy only 2x a week as opposed to 2-4 times a week.

 

[EFFORT]

Good general advice in this thread, like Quag said it would be a lot easier to give tailored advice if you post up your previous routine and include most recent numbers used for your main lifts. Also include your diet with totals for carbs, fats and protein. Also your body weight, height, estimated bodyfat.

 

[blackbelt2k]

Diet:
1) 5 egg whites, 5 turkey bacon strips, english muffin
2) nada right now
3) a manwich: 4 slices of raost beef, turkey, ham, chicken on 2 whole wheat pieces fo bread
4) 53g whey shake w/ 2 egg whites
5) 2 chicken breasts, broccolli, 1 can sardines
6) casien 43g shake w/banana

current workout:
M: circuit1: SQUATS 5x5(245lb), pullups 5x5 (45lb), abs light work
circuit2: trapezius row 5x5( 95lb), leg curl 4x(12,10,8,6) (180-240lb), incline press 4x(12,10,8,6) (65lbs)
circuit3: BBRows 5x5(165LBS), Shruggs 5x5 (225lbs)
circuit4: Deads 5x5 (245lbs), tricep overhead press 4x(10) (65lbs)

Wed: c1: Military Press 5x5 (125lbs), Leg extension 4x(12,10,8,6)(180lb), abs
c2: DB Bent over rows 5x5 (100lbs), decline press 4x(12,10,8,6) (65lbs), shruggs 5x5(225lbs)
c3: Dips 5x8 (55lbs), Deads 5x5 (225lb)
c4: reverse curls (70lbs)4x(12,10,8,6), talk to chick

Fri: c1: Bench 5x5 (205lb), calfraise 4x(12,10,8,6) (100lbs), abs
c2: Squats 5x5 (245lb), pullups 5x5 (45lb)
c3: BB/DB rows with respective weights from above, arnold press 4x(12,10,8,6)(65lbs)
c4: Deads 5x5 (245lb), tricep overhead 4x10 (65lbs)

yea, i know my deads are better than my squats ... I'm gonna try a new routine though
M: power 70% 1RM on compound lifts only
W: isolation work on different body parts (50%)
F: Power (80%) 1 RM on compounds

tues/thurs i jump rope for 30 min then punish my abs for like 20, then go home

5'8, current 161.5lbs, i got a body fat electionic caliper from GNC, says im 8%, i don't think its right, though, i don't really think i look 8%

 

[EFFORT]

Diet:
1) 5 egg whites, 5 turkey bacon strips, english muffin
2) nada right now
3) a manwich: 4 slices of raost beef, turkey, ham, chicken on 2 whole wheat pieces fo bread
4) 53g whey shake w/ 2 egg whites
5) 2 chicken breasts, broccolli, 1 can sardines
6) casien 43g shake w/banana

current workout:
M: circuit1: SQUATS 5x5(245lb), pullups 5x5 (45lb), abs light work
circuit2: trapezius row 5x5( 95lb), leg curl 4x(12,10,8,6) (180-240lb), incline press 4x(12,10,8,6) (65lbs)
circuit3: BBRows 5x5(165LBS), Shruggs 5x5 (225lbs)
circuit4: Deads 5x5 (245lbs), tricep overhead press 4x(10) (65lbs)

Wed: c1: Military Press 5x5 (125lbs), Leg extension 4x(12,10,8,6)(180lb), abs
c2: DB Bent over rows 5x5 (100lbs), decline press 4x(12,10,8,6) (65lbs), shruggs 5x5(225lbs)
c3: Dips 5x8 (55lbs), Deads 5x5 (225lb)
c4: reverse curls (70lbs)4x(12,10,8,6), talk to chick

Fri: c1: Bench 5x5 (205lb), calfraise 4x(12,10,8,6) (100lbs), abs
c2: Squats 5x5 (245lb), pullups 5x5 (45lb)
c3: BB/DB rows with respective weights from above, arnold press 4x(12,10,8,6)(65lbs)
c4: Deads 5x5 (245lb), tricep overhead 4x10 (65lbs)

yea, i know my deads are better than my squats ... I'm gonna try a new routine though
M: power 70% 1RM on compound lifts only
W: isolation work on different body parts (50%)
F: Power (80%) 1 RM on compounds

tues/thurs i jump rope for 30 min then punish my abs for like 20, then go home

5'8, current 161.5lbs, i got a body fat electionic caliper from GNC, says im 8%, i don't think its right, though, i don't really think i look 8%

Hey man. Your 1st problem right now is your diet. Your not eating enough food to grow. Your protein should be 325g a day with carbs in the 250-300 range and fat in the 130-150 range. EAT EAT EAT is what should always be on your mind.

As for routine, i respect the wisdom of powerlifters a lot and feel you'd do good taking there advice and training with them if possible. They can help you out in so many ways. So to recap, eat like theres about to be no more food in the world, train with the powerlifters or do what they tell you.

 

[blackbelt2k]

thanks guy...yea, your telling me about needing to eat, im working on it, right now all i got extra is the beef jerky i eat about all day at work, lol