Thats the thing, the mindset for me is that Im not interested. She has a shot to prove herself to me and if she is good enough then ye I will be interested. The direct approach is basically saying 'Hi I want to have sex with you'
new pickup line for you non-afc's
- Thread starter Recluce
- Start date
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
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Keep in mind, I'm not saying that opinion openers should be eliminated as they do have value, but direct does save a lot of time and energy, and for me, works better.
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
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You say that like that's a bad thing.
That's the whole reason men and women talk to each other in the first place.
And keep in mind, that just because I approach a woman and tell her that I'd like to get to know her doesn't mean she gets a free pass.
I will still make her qualify herself, as well as busting on her with some C&F to see if she has a sense of humor.
And yes, a direct opener does show that you are sexually interested in her, just like an indirect opener does.
The difference is that with the direct opener, you are not hiding behind some opinion opener and feigning disinterest instead of being upfront about who you are and why you are approaching her.
She already knows why you are approaching her, and when you use some indirect and/or opinion opener instead, it lowers your value in her eyes, because for whatever reason, you are beating around the bush when everyone knows why you approached her in the first place.
And being direct like that triggers the "Alpha male attraction" in her, if done congruently.
Again, this can be argued and discussed here all day and night, but the proof is out in the field.
Slimijs
Senior Don Juan
This stuff is golden. I am going to use it tonight. It's kinda similar to the SHY Opener, but it's all good.
But I doubt how this would work in large groupsets with some guys.
al77
Master Don Juan
So you are saying 8, 9, 10 girls are approached by just very few guys? I am sorry it doesn't make sense: usually it work the other way around: the prettier the girl, the more she is approached.
C'mon, to get 8-10 you have to leverage your game by at least something... just because you are confident she is not gonna fall in love with you. Those 8-10 seek prestige: ie. something from what you said: looks, status, money... at least something.
I dont think those HB8-10 are good targets anyway, unless you are a great DJ and got somehting besides your game.
If you are, in fact, good - yes, you can start with any opener.. even with the dumbest opener and you will have success.
What you said about bars - true. Though hot chicks are approached a lot and they heard any kindof openers. Why would she like a direct opener more than anything else? Confidence in the approach? Yes. But is not it too much of directness?
Ok, you tried it...how women respoend to direct approach?
I suspect maybe 1 in 10 will say something positive. The rest would just go "ehhh... mmmm....hmmmm.." they just dont know how to respond to the directness.
C'mon, to get 8-10 you have to leverage your game by at least something... just because you are confident she is not gonna fall in love with you. Those 8-10 seek prestige: ie. something from what you said: looks, status, money... at least something.
I dont think those HB8-10 are good targets anyway, unless you are a great DJ and got somehting besides your game.
If you are, in fact, good - yes, you can start with any opener.. even with the dumbest opener and you will have success.
What you said about bars - true. Though hot chicks are approached a lot and they heard any kindof openers. Why would she like a direct opener more than anything else? Confidence in the approach? Yes. But is not it too much of directness?
Ok, you tried it...how women respoend to direct approach?
I suspect maybe 1 in 10 will say something positive. The rest would just go "ehhh... mmmm....hmmmm.." they just dont know how to respond to the directness.
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
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Again, you're missing the point: Approaching direct isn't some magic bullet, but it does seperate you from the guys that don't have the courage to do it.
And I never said that HB 8's and up don't get approached, I'm saying that they rarely get approached by guys in a direct, confident manner very much.
It's usually by some guy in a club who is drunk, intimidated by her beauty and so forth.
And if you believe that looks and money are the most important thing when it comes to HB 8's and up, you're wrong.
Of course, those things help, but there are plenty of guys that have those things that can't get a HB 8 to save their life.
The approach is just a small part of it - it takes more than just approaching directly with confidence to get a girl, regardless of her looks.
You must still create some comfort, attraction, rapport etc...
You must still have confidence and have a strong frame, and have your act together.
And about half the HB8's and up that I've approached using a direct opener have responded positively.
Oh, and keep in mind, I'm 45 years old and the girls I date/f*** are generally 15-20 years younger than myself.
And I'm certainly not rich.
As for looks, click the www button at the bottom of this post.
Stop being a Keyboard Jockey before you start criticizing those that have the balls and the courage to do direct approaches on HB 8's and up and get out there and try it yourself.
Be confident when you approach direct, have good body language, good tonality and a strong frame so you can deal with any "$#!T Tests" she might throw at you.
Right now, all I hear is excuses, which is not exactly behavior that makes women wet.
Again, the reason that makes you stand out from the rest when confidently approaching direct is because you are not an excuser, someone who "hides" behind an indirect opener because they don't have the balls or the courage to walk up to a HB8 and up, and say something like "Hi, I saw you and I'd like to get to know you" as opposed to some BS about "I need your opinion - who lies more, men or women?"
Or worse, like the PU "guru" who suggested his this opener: "Should I dye my tips blond?"
Uhhhh - so weak.
Again, women know why we are approaching them.
When you use some opinion opener or indirect opener, it lowers your value in her eyes.
Who do you think she will be more attracted to?
The guy that approaches direct, or the guy hiding behind some excuse opener?
When you correctly do a direct approach, the look on their face and body language says it all - it's like "Finally, someone with balls"
I've even had women later tell me that my approach made me stand out from the rest of the guys who were doing the usual, indirect, excuser openers.
One even said "You don't F*** around - I like that"
Like I said, approach direct with a strong frame, good body language, good tonality, confidence and have your game somewhat together, then come back here and tell me that direct isn't as good as indirect.
Facts are, most guys will just make excuses instead of doing it.
PU isn't that complicated - you don't have to search for a clever, witty opener, or do a bunch of routines, and magic tricks and hand-writing analysis and all those other gimmicks that some guys teach.
That $#!T is afc if you think about it - learning a bunch of gimmicks to try to impress women
Get your inner game together and just go for what you want, without making excuses as to why you are approaching her when she knows damn well why.
It's like Chris Rock says, when you open a women with some opinion opener or whatever, it's like saying "You want some D***?"
You know it, I know it, Chris Rock knows it, and she knows it.
By using an excuse to talk to her (do you really care who lies more, men or women? hell no and she know it too) instead of being upfront about it, it lowers your value in her eyes, and it doesn't trigger the alpha male attraction mechanism.
Again, it takes more than just being direct and having confidence to get the girl, but without confidence, which is required to go direct, you won't even get your foot in the door.
Confidence, a good attitude and a strong frame will take you much further than looks or money.
And trust me, when you use direct and get positive feedback from it, your confidence will soar.
And in the fairness of full disclosure, I still occassionally use indirect openers based on the situation, as they still have some value, but most guys use them because they don't have the courage to go direct and deal with the possible rejection.
Most egos can't handle being rejected after being direct, but it softens the blow when you are rejected from using an indirect opener.
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
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- 1,737
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- 41
Repost from another forum about "direct" game:
Cameron, from Fidentia.org, sent me this article he wanted all you to read.
This article will seem like just good old plain common sense. Yet, nobody in the community is really addressing it and I know it is a problem for most men.
I know it is a problem because I teach workshop/seminars a couple of times a month and I see it first hand and it’s advice that can save you a lot of time and wasted energy.
If you are beginning your journey into the community, I’ll modestly say that this is one of the most important things you’ll read.
Some of you have goals and objectives while learning this “Game.” Others just take it one day at a time.
If you are going to set objectives in this game, make sure at the very top is the freedom to exist.
Well, what the heck does that mean?
It means if you are going to set up goals for yourself, your eventual goal is to believe so strongly in yourself that you can walk up to anyone and be comfortable.
Sounds simple, doesn’t it? And yet, it is so difficult.
This is not a goal that is achieved over night. It takes time and effort and you must work towards it. I have met and winged with some of the best of the best as far as this community is concerned, and I can tell you that even a lot of those guys haven’t achieved this.
Why is this so?
Let’s backtrack a little bit. Sometime last year, my partner, Ranko AKA Shark, started to popularize the direct “I like you opener.” He was criticized and insulted to no end and
Even when it appeared that everything he was saying was accurate, his critics never acknowledged him.
The reason for this is two fold:
A. Some guys in the community are insecure to the point that they can never give credit to anyone for they think it will diminish their guru status.
B. Some guys still do not get it!
These same critics who still do not get it, refer to “Direct game” as a tool. These critics claim that “Direct is a good tool to carry.” In fact, they refer to everything as a “Tool.”
Here is what I want you to understand:
DIRECT IS NOT ABOUT THE OPENER! IT’S ABOUT A MENTALITY!
The direct style is about a state of self-belief not often found in community PUAs regardless of how much success they have achieved.
Lacking these internal belief structure, the PUA will often resort to looking at things through a different lens. He looks at everything through the frame of techniques and tactics, henceforth completely missing the point regarding the self-belief.
I recently heard an incredibly well known PUA on this board label direct as a “Frame Control” Trick. This indicates that to this person, everything is still a technique, not an organic and natural process.
To truly not give a **** and have such a strong self-image to approach anyone is not a trick. It is not a tactic.
It comes from the power of belief and it comes from a deeper place.
It takes time to get there. It helps if you realize what it is you should be focusing on.
You go in with the mentality that “I do NOT need to resort to trickery and tactics” in order to get a chick.
I am not saying that “Tools” are bad in general. There are some tools that are useful at some point.
However, to be able to just be present and a relaxed cool individual is to be able to free yourself of constantly reaching inside your bag of tools.
Even the tools are not tools. I’ll explain:
One of the things I teach to guys is the art of story telling. Now, two years ago, I probably would have thought that this is a great tool to have.
However, having the ability to tell stories in an interesting and captivating manner is not a tool.
It is forcing you to make a fundamental change in yourself. Once you learn how to tell a proper story and be interesting, you will have made a permanent change.
You are no longer reaching in your bag silently thinking to yourself, “Aha, I will pull out my tool of “Story telling” at this point in the pickup. It will be the equivalent of photon torpedoes and will weaken her deflector shields.”
No!
You just become a more interesting person who enjoys sharing a good story or two because you have internalized good story telling and now it has become second nature.
Again: This article is not about an opener, and it’s not about the words that you say when you approach a woman.
It’s about a STATE OF MIND. It is about a PARADIGM SHIFT.
It is about what Seth Parker talked about in his article “Confident Rapport.”
It is about what Woodhaven talked about in his natural game article.
It’s about a mentality to be able express oneself without pretense. You may even use some situational opener to open conversation. For the tenth time, the opener is not the point.
It’s also not about having ****y/funny as a tool.
You want to be confident and playful? Fine! Do so because you are a person who enjoys having a good time and one who enjoys teasing people. Don’t do it because it is a tool you pull out of your hidden bag.
I recall, many years ago, watching “The Lost Interview” with Bruce Lee where he talked about expressing oneself and the difficulty in doing so.
Bruce said, “It is easy to for me to put on a show and be flooded with a ****y feeling, and then feel pretty cool, or do some phony things and be blinded by it, or show you some fancy movement..... but to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, to express myself honestly......That, my friend, is very hard to do.”
Cameron, from Fidentia.org, sent me this article he wanted all you to read.
This article will seem like just good old plain common sense. Yet, nobody in the community is really addressing it and I know it is a problem for most men.
I know it is a problem because I teach workshop/seminars a couple of times a month and I see it first hand and it’s advice that can save you a lot of time and wasted energy.
If you are beginning your journey into the community, I’ll modestly say that this is one of the most important things you’ll read.
Some of you have goals and objectives while learning this “Game.” Others just take it one day at a time.
If you are going to set objectives in this game, make sure at the very top is the freedom to exist.
Well, what the heck does that mean?
It means if you are going to set up goals for yourself, your eventual goal is to believe so strongly in yourself that you can walk up to anyone and be comfortable.
Sounds simple, doesn’t it? And yet, it is so difficult.
This is not a goal that is achieved over night. It takes time and effort and you must work towards it. I have met and winged with some of the best of the best as far as this community is concerned, and I can tell you that even a lot of those guys haven’t achieved this.
Why is this so?
Let’s backtrack a little bit. Sometime last year, my partner, Ranko AKA Shark, started to popularize the direct “I like you opener.” He was criticized and insulted to no end and
Even when it appeared that everything he was saying was accurate, his critics never acknowledged him.
The reason for this is two fold:
A. Some guys in the community are insecure to the point that they can never give credit to anyone for they think it will diminish their guru status.
B. Some guys still do not get it!
These same critics who still do not get it, refer to “Direct game” as a tool. These critics claim that “Direct is a good tool to carry.” In fact, they refer to everything as a “Tool.”
Here is what I want you to understand:
DIRECT IS NOT ABOUT THE OPENER! IT’S ABOUT A MENTALITY!
The direct style is about a state of self-belief not often found in community PUAs regardless of how much success they have achieved.
Lacking these internal belief structure, the PUA will often resort to looking at things through a different lens. He looks at everything through the frame of techniques and tactics, henceforth completely missing the point regarding the self-belief.
I recently heard an incredibly well known PUA on this board label direct as a “Frame Control” Trick. This indicates that to this person, everything is still a technique, not an organic and natural process.
To truly not give a **** and have such a strong self-image to approach anyone is not a trick. It is not a tactic.
It comes from the power of belief and it comes from a deeper place.
It takes time to get there. It helps if you realize what it is you should be focusing on.
You go in with the mentality that “I do NOT need to resort to trickery and tactics” in order to get a chick.
I am not saying that “Tools” are bad in general. There are some tools that are useful at some point.
However, to be able to just be present and a relaxed cool individual is to be able to free yourself of constantly reaching inside your bag of tools.
Even the tools are not tools. I’ll explain:
One of the things I teach to guys is the art of story telling. Now, two years ago, I probably would have thought that this is a great tool to have.
However, having the ability to tell stories in an interesting and captivating manner is not a tool.
It is forcing you to make a fundamental change in yourself. Once you learn how to tell a proper story and be interesting, you will have made a permanent change.
You are no longer reaching in your bag silently thinking to yourself, “Aha, I will pull out my tool of “Story telling” at this point in the pickup. It will be the equivalent of photon torpedoes and will weaken her deflector shields.”
No!
You just become a more interesting person who enjoys sharing a good story or two because you have internalized good story telling and now it has become second nature.
Again: This article is not about an opener, and it’s not about the words that you say when you approach a woman.
It’s about a STATE OF MIND. It is about a PARADIGM SHIFT.
It is about what Seth Parker talked about in his article “Confident Rapport.”
It is about what Woodhaven talked about in his natural game article.
It’s about a mentality to be able express oneself without pretense. You may even use some situational opener to open conversation. For the tenth time, the opener is not the point.
It’s also not about having ****y/funny as a tool.
You want to be confident and playful? Fine! Do so because you are a person who enjoys having a good time and one who enjoys teasing people. Don’t do it because it is a tool you pull out of your hidden bag.
I recall, many years ago, watching “The Lost Interview” with Bruce Lee where he talked about expressing oneself and the difficulty in doing so.
Bruce said, “It is easy to for me to put on a show and be flooded with a ****y feeling, and then feel pretty cool, or do some phony things and be blinded by it, or show you some fancy movement..... but to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, to express myself honestly......That, my friend, is very hard to do.”
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,737
- Reaction score
- 41
I also recall not completely understanding what he was discussing the first time I heard this interview. He is very correct, however. It is easy to put on a fancy show and try to impress people, but to honestly express yourself is very difficult.
The chief goal of any self-help environment ought to be trying to get you to feel comfortable in your own skin and be at peace with yourself.
To genuinely feel and exude that is difficult.
To me, being able to express yourself without excuses is the ultimate state of alphaness.
Yet, what do you usually find in guys who are “Trying” to be alpha?
Firstly, let’s understand this: You have a lot of guys who are trying to prove that they are alpha. Well, if you are “Trying” to be it, then you really are not alpha.
I constantly run into such guys who are trying to be alpha: Their behaviors manifest themselves in two ways.
A. They act like jerks, they behave in a standoffish manner, they try to ignore people as though these people are beneath them, and they exude other similar pompous behavior.
This is obviously the behavior of an insecure person. If you are comfortable with yourself, you don’t need to mistreat someone to give yourself status. Isn’t funny to realize that in many cases overindulgence in arrogance is actually driven from insecurity?
B. They try to dominate every conversation. They must at all times be the center of attention.
This second category is really easy to notice. You can have a group of 5 guys talking and you’ll see one guy constantly cutting people off to interject his point of view and constantly striving to get attention.
If he is not interjecting to get his point in, he is drawing attention to himself through wisecracks or other juvenile behavior.
His starvation for other people’s attention becomes laughably obvious and after a while, it becomes annoying.
This also is deeply rooted in insecurity.
Thus, to be genuine and comfortable, you do not need to be a jerk, and nor do you need to be the center of attention every single minute. You can be in your space and if someone else has the floor, you can listen comfortably because you are secure in who you are.
You are not there to prove anything. You can enjoy someone else’s words because you are actually listening to that person speak, and not worrying about what you should say to garner attention back to yourself every step of the way.
Whether you consider yourself a novice in meeting women or somewhat experienced, you should always keep this ideal in mind.
Not being comfortable with who you are manifests itself in so many ways.
It will drive you to try and impress people all the time.
It will drive you to continually search for more pickup lines.
It will drive you to many times behave like a pompous jackass.
It will drive you to constantly try and bring attention to yourself.
It will drive you to impress people by whom you have sitting next to you.
It will drive you to impress by telling people what kind of a cool car you have, what celeb you met, or how much money you just made.
It will drive you to be socially frightened.
It will drive you women away from you.
Thus, making “becoming comfortable with who you are,” is one of the top priorities.
While it is not the only priority, it should be one of the top messages emphasized by gurus giving dating advice in the community.
Instead, guys are chasing their own tails trying to learn more openers, more cute lines, more patterns, more negs, more ****y/funny, more, more, more............
When is it going to end???
It ends when you realize that probably the biggest reason you are at this cross road is because you are not comfortable with who you are.
It takes a bit of an ego check to admit this, but admitting is the first step to progress.
I’ll be honest with you: I have met nearly ALL of the gurus in the community and even a lot of them are not completely comfortable in their own skin either, despite their success.
It is not an easily achieved feat, but it is what your master goal should be.
People are not comfortable with themselves and they build layers to mask that discomfort. Instead of helping peel off the layers of façade, most people in the community advise people to hide under more layers.
I meet some strange cases. I meet people from the community who have built so many false layers of “Game” on themselves that I don’t know who the **** I am talking to. One minute, they are trying to be alpha, and the next, they are running a routine on me, and then they are trying to qualify me.
I am not a guru and I am not some super monk sitting on top of the mountain being at one with the Universe. We are all at different levels of comfort. We are at different stages in our journey.
However, I want to make sure that people are focusing on the right issues and that this focus will help them achieve their desired states.
Once again, if someone is socially awkward then it is logical that he would seek to remedy that situation. However, to crawl out of the hole of social ineptness onto the plateau of a socially savvy person is not a tool. It is about that person making fundamental changes in himself.
Similarly, becoming comfortable and being able to exist and walk through life in a manner where you feel good about yourself, and in a manner where you feel the freedom to exist and express yourself is not a tool.
It is not a tactic!
It is not a routine!
It is a paradigm shift in your thinking, beliefs, ideals, and behavior!!
It is about a strong enough self-image where you don’t feel like you must carry your invisible bag of tools at all times or you are doomed.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS YOURSELF WITHOUT EXCUSES.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXIST.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO BE.
That, my fellow community folk, is attractive.
Cameron
----------------------
www.Fidentia.org
Cameron_T@Fidentia.org
The chief goal of any self-help environment ought to be trying to get you to feel comfortable in your own skin and be at peace with yourself.
To genuinely feel and exude that is difficult.
To me, being able to express yourself without excuses is the ultimate state of alphaness.
Yet, what do you usually find in guys who are “Trying” to be alpha?
Firstly, let’s understand this: You have a lot of guys who are trying to prove that they are alpha. Well, if you are “Trying” to be it, then you really are not alpha.
I constantly run into such guys who are trying to be alpha: Their behaviors manifest themselves in two ways.
A. They act like jerks, they behave in a standoffish manner, they try to ignore people as though these people are beneath them, and they exude other similar pompous behavior.
This is obviously the behavior of an insecure person. If you are comfortable with yourself, you don’t need to mistreat someone to give yourself status. Isn’t funny to realize that in many cases overindulgence in arrogance is actually driven from insecurity?
B. They try to dominate every conversation. They must at all times be the center of attention.
This second category is really easy to notice. You can have a group of 5 guys talking and you’ll see one guy constantly cutting people off to interject his point of view and constantly striving to get attention.
If he is not interjecting to get his point in, he is drawing attention to himself through wisecracks or other juvenile behavior.
His starvation for other people’s attention becomes laughably obvious and after a while, it becomes annoying.
This also is deeply rooted in insecurity.
Thus, to be genuine and comfortable, you do not need to be a jerk, and nor do you need to be the center of attention every single minute. You can be in your space and if someone else has the floor, you can listen comfortably because you are secure in who you are.
You are not there to prove anything. You can enjoy someone else’s words because you are actually listening to that person speak, and not worrying about what you should say to garner attention back to yourself every step of the way.
Whether you consider yourself a novice in meeting women or somewhat experienced, you should always keep this ideal in mind.
Not being comfortable with who you are manifests itself in so many ways.
It will drive you to try and impress people all the time.
It will drive you to continually search for more pickup lines.
It will drive you to many times behave like a pompous jackass.
It will drive you to constantly try and bring attention to yourself.
It will drive you to impress people by whom you have sitting next to you.
It will drive you to impress by telling people what kind of a cool car you have, what celeb you met, or how much money you just made.
It will drive you to be socially frightened.
It will drive you women away from you.
Thus, making “becoming comfortable with who you are,” is one of the top priorities.
While it is not the only priority, it should be one of the top messages emphasized by gurus giving dating advice in the community.
Instead, guys are chasing their own tails trying to learn more openers, more cute lines, more patterns, more negs, more ****y/funny, more, more, more............
When is it going to end???
It ends when you realize that probably the biggest reason you are at this cross road is because you are not comfortable with who you are.
It takes a bit of an ego check to admit this, but admitting is the first step to progress.
I’ll be honest with you: I have met nearly ALL of the gurus in the community and even a lot of them are not completely comfortable in their own skin either, despite their success.
It is not an easily achieved feat, but it is what your master goal should be.
People are not comfortable with themselves and they build layers to mask that discomfort. Instead of helping peel off the layers of façade, most people in the community advise people to hide under more layers.
I meet some strange cases. I meet people from the community who have built so many false layers of “Game” on themselves that I don’t know who the **** I am talking to. One minute, they are trying to be alpha, and the next, they are running a routine on me, and then they are trying to qualify me.
I am not a guru and I am not some super monk sitting on top of the mountain being at one with the Universe. We are all at different levels of comfort. We are at different stages in our journey.
However, I want to make sure that people are focusing on the right issues and that this focus will help them achieve their desired states.
Once again, if someone is socially awkward then it is logical that he would seek to remedy that situation. However, to crawl out of the hole of social ineptness onto the plateau of a socially savvy person is not a tool. It is about that person making fundamental changes in himself.
Similarly, becoming comfortable and being able to exist and walk through life in a manner where you feel good about yourself, and in a manner where you feel the freedom to exist and express yourself is not a tool.
It is not a tactic!
It is not a routine!
It is a paradigm shift in your thinking, beliefs, ideals, and behavior!!
It is about a strong enough self-image where you don’t feel like you must carry your invisible bag of tools at all times or you are doomed.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS YOURSELF WITHOUT EXCUSES.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO EXIST.
IT IS ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO BE.
That, my fellow community folk, is attractive.
Cameron
----------------------
www.Fidentia.org
Cameron_T@Fidentia.org