New Guy here, need some advice

[jasedm1]

Hello all. I am new here.. Its kind of cool to see a section for those of us who are a bit older. I am 42.
so here is the deal.

I moved to a new city a year ago and started a new job. There is a 35 yr old, hot woman there who I will call D. D is hot- about a 7, very smart, cool etc. From the beginning we hit it off and we have always spoken and interacted with some flirtatious undertones.. but we work together. Besides, much as I liked her, I was up to my neck in ***** all this year. Little by little we would talk about our dates etc and just generally were cool.. but we never spoke outside of work or anything. I liked her but not so much that I felt the need to pursue- and again, getting laid regularly.
About 2 months ago I noticed a change in her that coincided with a change in myself- we were upping the stakes mutually. She would come around and talk more to me, lingering, lots of eye contact. I started feeling the need to do the same. Things went on this way until eventually- 2 weeks ago- I asked her to get a drink. She jumped at the chance. We met up that Friday and hung out. I was still unsure if I was interested enough to pursue her, but by the end of the evening it had all clicked. I LIKED her.. in a keeper sort of way. We ended our hanging out with a peck on the lips.
We met up at a work function the night after (staurday) and weren't able to do much, but we snuck some hand holding and another short kiss.
She wanted to do brunch the next day, but I had a Bday part for family Sunday and had to say no.
So back to work on Monday and due to our schedules wouldn't be able to meet for a bit. but in wednseday we both walked up to eah other and she literally stamps her feet an says "I really want to see you!". I said me too and that I would call her that night to meet up. Its was do or die, because she had a trip out of town and would be gone until this week. So I get home, text and .....nothing. No response until 10 pm saying she went jogging without her phone and met her sister for some errands. I was like WTF?
I played it off and said no big deal, but that I did find that confusing, could we meet tomorrow? she said she had tentative plans and wasn't sure, but knew I wouldn't hang around waiting so probably not. I didn't respond.
Next day she is texting me and asking me questions all the time.. I responded late and only curtly as I sensed she was fishing to see if I was angry.
She went on her trip and when she got back on Tues, I played it cool and didn't say much at all. I was polite but never brought any of it up. But I didn't flirt much either.. Just being neutral.
So yesterday I was talking to her and decided to force her to either drop it or go for it. I went to her and said "go out with me". She kind of hemmed and hawed but said she wanted to and friday might be best. I said fine, but then she said that maybe she had to check on something to make sure. I remained cool and said, contact me and let me know .
I haven't heard from her yet, but its still Thursday, so i decided to just leave the ball in her court.

What are my next steps? If she doesn't call at all, I plan to not remind her about our plans at all. If she is interested, she will contact. If she doesn't I plan a freeze out. But not sure what else to do. I am also considering if she does say she can get together tomorrow being a **** and saying she was too late in letting me know and that I've made other plans.

Working in the same place (but not together- its a hospital) has thrown me off a bit here. As well as I am not sure whats up with he behavior.

Help?

 

[jasedm1]

Hey man, thanks for the advice.

So you see as I do- **** testing for position. **** man, women really are stupid, aren't they? Its like they are too dumb to realize that they can have everything they want simply by being pleasant! They act up and we get mad, so we lower their value in our eyes and they screwed and dumped or used. Meanwhile, had they just gone along and not **** tested, guys would be much more willing to give them their hearts desire.
But I am glad to get some confirmation on the idea that this was all her BS **** testing drama.

So it looks like 3 possibilities:
1.she calls before tomorrow and says its on. REsponse: Should I go or say "too late"? not sure
2.she calls tomorrow and says "can't make it". Response: I'm just going to text back an "ok" and thats that. Freeze out.
3.She doesn't call at all and tries to play it off on Monday when we meet at work. response- freeze out.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I would guess the week that she was so into you was the week before her period, when she was ovulating. She got her period the night she ditched you for "jogging." Right now, she's still in the early part of her cycle and not going to be as horny. Give it about another week or two.

I think a lot of women's behavior is influenced by hormones, so don't ever take it personally when they seem hot one day and cold the next. It's not personal - it's hormonal.

 

[Greasy Pig]

Mauser is spot on here. If she takes too long to get back to you, YOU flake on her. Awesome.
It sets the frame and shows you aren't needy and aren't going to put up with being played.

I'm struggling to see why she's being so fvcked in the head. Maybe Bible Belt is onto something with hormones, or maybe she fancies keeping you as her "B" guy for when her "A" guy isn't available.

 

[jasedm1]

Mauser- Yeah, its now almost 11am and no response. So by this point I'm not seeing her even if she texts me now. My chasing is now, officially, done.

GreasyPig- It really is a mystery to me this time. We've known each other for a year, and since I wasn't considering anything with her we talked frankly to each other about our dating lives. She knows I play around and see many women, I also know that she barely dates. When she was seeing some- which has about twice in a year, she would say so. I highly doubt someone materialized within the last two weeks who would be option A. And if there was a dude who she liked that much, her pattern- as far as I could tell, has been to date in the hope for a relationship. So all this is very strange.
Not to mention that she has been impeccably kind and considerate. Not just to me, but her general nature. As an example, the day after our first hang out- she came to work and brought my expresso- just how I liked it too. On her day off. No request in my part, just how she normally is.
Suddenly, she is exhibiting weird ass behavior I havent seen in a year of knowing her.

Here is what I do know about her- she was engaged to get married about 2 yrs ago and the dude- who she says was a nerd and "not very hot" cheated on her and married the other girl after the wedding was canceled. I know in the past two years she has barely dated because of this. I also know she would get very angry with me all the times I would tell her I was not serious about the girls I was seeing. She also knows that as of a few months ago I was growing tired of all the dating and was secretly hoping a ltr would develope with someone.

Women be crazy, yo.

 

[Bible_Belt]

she was engaged to get married about 2 yrs ago and the dude- who she says was a nerd and "not very hot" cheated on her and married the other girl after the wedding was canceled. I know in the past two years she has barely dated because of this.

Obviously, she is scared of getting hurt again. Anyone would be. And when she's not hormonally horny, which is the female equivalent of a guy thinking with his d!ck, logic takes precedence over biology. And the only logical way to keep you from hurting her before it happens is to push you away. She probably had that epiphany while on her period, eating ice cream on the couch, and crying over a Lifetime movie.

You're doing what every guy does and assuming women are logical. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is their nature to be hot and cold in long-term flirting arrangements such as yours. It's like the changing weather - there is no point in being offended. Just ride it out and strike again when the time is right. If you had done that already, you wouldn't be in this spot now.

 

[jasedm1]

Bible-Belt.

I see what you're saying and I am sure it has alot of truth to it. My dilemma, even when I accept what you're saying is how to go forward from there. I feel that if I act as if its all ok, I am telling her that I'll put up with anything..I am lowering my value in her eyes.
So, accepting your paradigm, how should I go forward? What would be the most effective way to react to her behavior, say, Monday morning when I will be seeing in passing at work?

ps as to not striking when the iron was hot- I couldn't very well abandon a family Bday gathering for her. That is just.... not cool.

 

[flashpoint]

seems like you gotta earn her trust first. that might include being patient as well. and kind of forgiving. but be careful just because someone got hurt doesnt mean she cant be a crazy biatch with all kind of issues.

i think that is a good start to set your boundaries like not passing on the family gathering because of her. on the other hand dont be judgemental towards her when she behaves strange, just keep going. just tell her that it is a pity she couldnt make it and that you really liked to spend some more time with her.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I feel that if I act as if its all ok, I am telling her that I'll put up with anything..I am lowering my value in her eyes.

That's your ego talking. If she was better at stroking male egos, then she wouldn't be single. It is your job as the man to navigate your dynamic with her without ever getting offended or upset. That is female behavior. If she ignores you, just withdraw your attention and focus it elsewhere. But do it without being p!ssy - she should not notice you are offended. If you had another girl on standby - as you should - that is how you would act without even thinking about it. She will just assume that you have someone else. But if you get mad, it shows a lack of options, and that is really what lowers your value.

 

[scrouds]

I advocate for being a flake. Nothing says value like not dealing with crap and not caring either way.

My advice, which you don't want to hear, is drop her like a hot rock. Cultivate other options that are isolated from your workplace. We have such a bad climate in the western world that doing anything with those that you work with is a recipe for disaster.

 

[origin138]

I feel that if I act as if its all ok, I am telling her that I'll put up with anything..I am lowering my value in her eyes.

That's your ego talking. If she was better at stroking male egos, then she wouldn't be single. It is your job as the man to navigate your dynamic with her without ever getting offended or upset. That is female behavior. If she ignores you, just withdraw your attention and focus it elsewhere. But do it without being p!ssy - she should not notice you are offended. If you had another girl on standby - as you should - that is how you would act without even thinking about it. She will just assume that you have someone else. But if you get mad, it shows a lack of options, and that is really what lowers your value.

To the OP, there is a ridiculous amount of good information in this post. Read this, memorize it, learn it, love it.

 

[jasedm1]

Thanks to everyone for all the responses so far.
For the record I do have several options and fall backs (plates) that are available. I guess I developed a bit of one-itis here.

It really is sad that we've reached a point on our society that a man can never really ever just fall romantically attached with a woman and always has to be on "game". Even with a smart, seemingly good hearted woman, we must always be "ON".
Lessons learned, forgotton, and now remembered. You are all right, of course.

Maybe I'll just call my back up tonight. But here is the thing.. does anyone else ever feel a bit of sadness at all of it? am I alone in this?

 

[Greasy Pig]

I'm sure we all feel regret in such situations. Spinning plates is fun and challenging. But occasionally one of those plates starts growing on you and you let your mind wander towards imagining what it would be like if she was your girlfriend.
Slowly and insidiously it creeps into your sub-conscious and you don't even realise how much into her you were until she's gone.
It's happened to me twice.
Both times I kept telling myself: "She's just a plate, she's just a plate. Don't get attached. Just fvck her and send her on her way like you always do. You don't want anything serious. There are other girls to fvck...etc etc"
But both times, when they removed themselves from my life, I felt hurt.
It's strange but you'll get over it with time and stepping back to see what she really is. I'm sure there are a lot of positives but there are some damn big negatives as well.

 

[jasedm1]

Well she never called, and thanks to this forum I'm really ok with it. I don't think it will take much effort to be casual about it when I see her. I'm hoping to remove any sign of awkwardness at all when I do.. but I think I'll manage just fine.
Thanks to you guys.
I have my perspective back. I forgot what I had learned and took it personally, I started backsliding to my old self. Its like that young teen who really bought societies BS about women and romance just won't give up. He saw a woman that fit the bill and bingo, he was off to the races.
The good thing is that every backslide leads you back to seeing your weaknesses and patterns and give you an opportunity to arrange it. Female imprinting is so deep in our society, and takes so many forms that every time you think you've reached the source, another form and challenge arises.

I'm also glad I found this forum. You guys Rock!
I'll check back and let you guys know how it goes. I plan to be completely in a state of "its no big deal" by Monday. I feel I am at about 85-90% there.

 

[scrouds]

Well actions will always speak louder then words, but everyone backslides. The key is to realize it, recover and learn from it. Its part of the process of making a better you.

 

[jasedm1]

Update:
I get to work today and she is walking in early. She comes to where I am and starts talking about the weather etc, as she talks I continue my trajectory towards the spot I sit at outside during my break. I act normal because I felt normal. She realizes I am continuing on my path and starts walking and facing my direction. I am not overly talkative, but not acting all butthurt either, just chill. She eventually breaks and goes inside.
Later on, during the day she is insinuating herself into my conversations. Again, I am not being rude, or any different than usual, except I cut out the flirty vibe we always have and thats all. I notice her trying to read me throughout, kinda like "is he really ok, or is he secretly mad?", but that may be projection on my part. Who knows what thoughts are in there.

As I get ready to head home, She corners me in the hallway, this is, more or less, the convo as I remember it

Her: I feel I've ****ed this up. I should have called you but I've really been a mess lately.
Me: its cool, I had a feeling you weren't feeling it and made other plans
Her: really? I mean, should we talk about this? Its always so weird talking here at work, I feel strange.
Me: I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you want to talk about exactly?
Her: this, us. I don't know whats going on.
Me: if you like we can
Her: I give up, I don't know what........
Me: for me its simple, we are either feeling it, or we're not. By your behavior my assumption is you are not. Or you would have made more of an effort. And if that is the case, Its ok.
Her: Are you feeling it still?
Me: are you? Look, we're being crytpic, So let me show you how its done: Yes, I would like to get to know you, I made that clear by asking you out. I expect, if its mutual for you to follow through. If not, well..
Her: it is. We do need to get together. Cant we get together tomorrow? Doing things here at work is just always confusing. I feel weird here, its confusing.
Me: I have plans (I really do)
Her: this is ridiculous. Wed?
Me. Wed is fine.
Her: I can't read you. You give me this look, I don't know what it means. I give up
Me: grabbing her hand: It means I like looking at you. So wed? set?
Her: yes.
Me:good
Her:good!
We both walk away smiling.

Opinions? have I been too cool with her and its ****ing with her? She was putting herself out pretty strongly at the beginning. Maybe she mistook real, actual plans on my part for being distant and uninterested?

The above was not exactly it, but its the general convo.

Opinion? lessons? thoughts?

 

[flashpoint]

cheers ;-)

 

[DonJuanabe]

You got the date you now must maintain the frame. Do not put her on a pedestal.

Remember the guy who cheated on her? Did he? And if so, why? The only thing you actually know is that she TOLD you he cheated on her and broke off the engagement. Might be true, might not be true. Even if it is, maybe you'll find out she is a cluster b or c and that is why the guy did what he did.

Maintain the frame and do not idealize her.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

OP put an age on your profile and read the Mature Man's forum rules if you want to continue posting here.

Now then, you get a B- for your performance thus far. Your first exchange was weak – a peck on the cheek, hand holding, etc. sound like an episode of Hannah Montana. This is not how adults date. If I had to guess, it was your hesitancy to consolidate on getting more intimate with her is what gave her pause. The green light's on brother, drive the friggin car.

However, your recovery is what's saved you. She is qualifying to you and in a big way, this is exactly how you want it. You handle yourself maturely and with amused mastery when you're not 'on a date', you need to transition that into your getting intimate with her. Notice how she accepted your direction here:

Me: I have plans (I really do)
Her: this is ridiculous. Wed?
Me. Wed is fine.
Her: I can't read you. You give me this look, I don't know what it means. I give up
Me: grabbing her hand: It means I like looking at you. So wed? set?
Her: yes.
Me:good
Her:good!

This is the dominance she's expecting from you when you're building up to having sex with her. You own it when you're not on a date, but you need to own it when you are. Hesitate and thou art lost. You go timid on her on Wednesday, you play nice and don't escalate to making out (or more) and she goes off to find the next Alpha she thought you were.

Thus far you've been Alpha at work and Beta on the date. Her confusion comes from initially 'reading' you as Alpha, but you didn't close the deal. This is what women mean when they say they "can't read you" – translation: "You're sending me Alpha cues, but you pull back like a Beta when it's time to get physical."

Also, have a plan. You lead. Tell her where you're going and what you'll be doing. She enters your world, you don't enter hers – from your last conversation this is how she wants it anyway. Be fearless. She wants a whirlwind, you need to be that whirlwind.

Law 28: Enter Action with Boldness
If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.

 

[jasedm1]

How cool to get advice from Rollo. I love your blog.. probably the only one I really read on game. I added the age and loc.

I had a different impression. We've never really been one date one, much less another. The first time we hung out was a date, in a way, and I should have escalated more, but being co-workers and not knowing how she felt made it a bit necessary to go slower. I got a kiss, which under the circumstances was pretty good.
After that we only met at the work function.. even if there was liqour there, I could no more hit on her in front of staff there than I can at the hospital. Even then I managed another kiss, but unless we wanted to go public, we had to lay low.
The problem has been getting the next date. As interested as she has been and seemed, she has avoided being alone. This is what I theorized after our convo- she's looking for a relationship. I am playing it the way we do- get her in bed asap and go from there. Its not that she is holding out on sex- think she knows if I get her alone its over. What she wants to know and I haven't demonstrated is whether I wanted more than a lay. Thats why she wants to "talk" to sort it out. I also think thats why she flaked- to get me to throw a tantrum and spill the beans in some display of beta neediness.
I read your blog though, so I know that will make her feel safe, but also lower her attraction.
So thats why I had to pull back and let her come to me. She is asking to talk, she is asking the questions and swallowing her fear and pride in the process. Make no mistake, chasing after me to "talk" was something very hard for her. She is extremely non-confrontational and after the ex cheated, very fearful of being played.
Everybody knows I play, and get laid too. She knows. People at work all know. They've been on trips with me, etc. Word has gotten around and to her. She has made fun of how I "like em young" and "hot". The reason why I think she became so open about going out with me is I had expressed (before I really thought she and I might be an item) that I was open to a more committed relationship.
So here was my take away. She wants to know I'm in it for more than a lay. I want to know she's not some flake I should just pump and dump. Neither of us wanted to show our hand first. But she just did.

That was how it felt to me. I am in it and maybe can't see clearly, so I'd love to hear you guys thoughts....
I'm learning alot from this one.