Never Initiate contact creates stalemate

[Pandora]

When you do not pursue a woman she often will re initiate contact with you if she likes you. Ive taken AD's machine to the extreme and it works. This is not to say men that pursue do not get women, but its much more painful.

Females also apply anti dumps machine of do not pursue even if you like the guy alot. That is why you get women, who are interested that rarely are the first move to initiate a text or phone call. Many of my female friends have been candid with me and told me that they at some part of their dating life, got burned by being too available to one particular guy, and then started using the "let him always call me" method. This is a very common strategy among attractive women.

The problem arises when both parties are using this method. It becomes a stalemate. How would u solve this? Does one party have to break first and re initiate contact? It gets crazy. Usually girls that act like this i drop? I refuse to initiate first move all the time (text or phone calls first).

There are other females friends i know who actually get turned on when a guy pursues. Ive seen guys snag girls buy really pouring their heart out to the girl and constantly pursuing. It happens sometimes. Most dont though. How do you know what strategy to use on which girl without throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

Its sad that dating has become so adversarial. Even my females friends that act like are just trying to protect their hearts from getting crushed again. So are the guys that use this too. Its like both parties are looking out to protect themselves but then end up even more frustrated in the end.

 

[zekko]

This is the problem with playing games.

I'm sure many guys here will cringe at this, but if you are simply genuine with the girl, they will drop their defenses. And if they are so intent on playing games that they won't, then they're not worth having around in the first place. IMO.

Of course you have to have some inherent value to pull this off. To me, a lot of what PUAs tell you to do is to make up for the fact that you have nothing else going for you. To fool the girl into thinking you are high value. If you really are high value (which is the real objective of being a DJ, right?), you don't have to do all that stuff, or some of it simply comes naturally.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

To me, a lot of what PUAs tell you to do is to make up for the fact that you have nothing else going for you. To fool the girl into thinking you are high value. If you really are high value (which is the real objective of being a DJ, right?), you don't have to do all that stuff, or some of it simply comes naturally.

Absolutely. Learned game is basically reverse engineered behavior from naturals. If you focused on your intrinsic value, as defined only by you, the more you're comfortable in your own skin, the less you need to worry about game or any techniques.

The best thing to do is come up with a set of rules, that work for you, before you get involved with anybody. And then simply follow your own rules.

(e.g. call a girl twice to set up an initial hang out, if she doesn't respond, next her)

Anti Dump is a fine place to start.

If a girl is really, really into you, she's gonna have a hard time following any "no contact" rule.

Just like sales. Whoever needs the sale least (be it seller or customer) has more power.

 

[BeDJ]

Most salesmen are desperate and needy

Just like sales. Whoever needs the sale least (be it seller or customer) has more power.

Treat dating as selling.

You present the value of your product to the customer and they get the first impression. They will listen to what you say if you build rapport and they like you. Customers will tell you they are interested, but their body language might show otherwise. If they product interests them, they will make an effort the contact you. You don't need their business because you have many other customers that like what you're selling. Your confidence in the process should create that image in their mind.

 

[disgustipated]

Per ADs machine, I believe he stated for one strategy to work the other party must not be employing any strategy.and that unfortunately you will lose some good women in.the process. I think his advice would be next. I've actually used that whole definition verbatim to get a gal to drop her defenses and strategy.

It really is a good system. I have a problem witholding secks from a girl that's really interested. How do u do it?

 

[bluenorther]

Sometimes you just gotta ASK her what it takes.
I had a lesson yesterday-- slept with an old client last month, tried to plan more meetups, and then... nothing. She stopped answering my calls, wouldn't return my messages. Where she lives is somewhat out of my way, but I finally went to her house and talked to her housemate. He assured me, she's just lousy with her phone manners. She called me later on after I got home, and told me not to bother with phoning, just come by when I can and it's perfectly okay.
That's kind of a refreshing response!

 

[Pandora]

Per ADs machine, I believe he stated for one strategy to work the other party must not be employing any strategy.

This is the issue. With the emergence of the dating culture everyone is has a strategy these days. I mean look how popular women's books like The Rules or Hes Not That Into You (this one even was made into a big movie).
Not to mention a girls bitter female friends in hear ear giving her the play hard to get advice.

 

[disgustipated]

As AD said, or to paraphrase him....she loses.

 

[disgustipated]

Interesting, I had been having a bad run of pushing too fast...going too slow etc.etc. I told myself it was me,.I was misreading each and.every girl. I said, okay I'm going to employ a to the tee AD machine style of.dating and maybe even document it. Well that was going to happen AFTER a first date I had with a girl from PoF, we sexxed first date after a great night out. So I had already broken some AD rules, but I persisted with the rest of the system that still applied. Trying to be vague about myself, calling on Wednesdays too lock up the weekend plan that I, not her, suggested. She's shown amazing interest and has been completely compliant with my lead. I already feel the nice guy in me wanting to reward her and give in to more stuff she wants. Point is,.she is very interested as am I...when they are this way they let you know through words AND actions, they make it easy on you....but of course **** tests are there. It's their.nature.

So.with all the second guessing of myself I had done.with the previous girls, i realized they were just not THAT interested. It's a world of difference. When u got a girl who stares into your eyes and you just know you rock her world...that's the stuff I'm after for.now on.

 

[tryst type]

I remember when I made a conscious decision to stop pursuing girls after the initial contact, I was crude in my strategy and not many ever reached out first due to fear of rejection.

What I learned, simply tell them to contact you. Give them the ok and 9 out of 10 times (granted they are legitimately interested) they will.

After meeting or first contact via Internet (Facebook/online dating) I'd simply say "shoot me a text"

After a hang out I'd casualt say something like "this was fun, keep in touch" or "text me"

Girls will usually take the pursuing bait if allowed, unless they're just into games and won't at all. That's when I just next them.

 

[muscleman]

'Playing games' is just a stepping stone in self-mastery. Game is an ART, not a set of rules.

Art is scientific principles bent by creative forces.

With experience, many learn that there are no absolutes, just degrees. Take something as simple as texting for example. There are girls I won't text back for days. Then there are girls I will text back almost immediately and neither one is superior/inferior. It's gauging the situation.

In general though, you do want to keep the ball in your court. Women look to you to make decisions so when it comes to something like calling/texting them, I will tell her that I will get a hold of her, and then do it at a time of my choosing.

 

[Serg897]

I have encountered a lot of this lately. A common female strategy simply seems to be passive and wait for the men to make all the moves. I'm not really letting it bother me, this has been the norm throughout my entire life. Women that break this pattern do exist but are rare, probably less than 20% of the woman I've ever dated.

What I've done lately is to be persistent but sporadic in my attempts. As in, I'll wait a week to call, and if I try to set up a date and she has some excuse yet still seems interested (i.e., they'll say "thank you for calling, we should do it another time", etc). I'll just wait 1-2 weeks then try again.

This is what I see as confident persistence. You are not desperate since you are exercising other options and you are not simply putting all your eggs in one basket, yet you aren't letting any one girl slip through the cracks and giving them all a fair shot. If you have several prospects in rotation as you always should you will constantly be calling someone or going on dates. This also keeps you from becoming invested in any one prospect.

 

[tryst type]

The problem I have with being the pursuer is it can easily set off a needy desperate vibe if not done right. Plus it shows the girl is of higher value than you unconsciously.

By setting it up so she's pursuing you the roles switch. More effective if you've mastered indifference as if you've already got tons of women contacting you first trying to see you. Less work on your part with same end reward.

 

[mrRuckus]

The problem I have with being the pursuer is it can easily set off a needy desperate vibe if not done right.

I don't know how one can really fvck it up. I don't know if you guys think initiating contact is texting her all week long and being the one who sends the first text or what so you can just bullsh1t for funsies.

I'm thinking of initiating contact as just a call that says let's get together. I don't know how you fvck that up and look needy unless you've called like 3 times and she keeps saying no every time.

Meet up with her, wait a couple days, make another call/text to meet up again. There's no need for chitchat in between. Let her initiate that crap if she wants, but you be the one who initiates the invites unless she takes it upon herself. Your signal of interest is invites, and your signal of not too much interest is not trying to maintain her attention every second between get-togethers.

 

[Colossus]

My thoughts:

I am a firm believer that, in general, the woman should do more than half of the pursuing. I think the error comes when it goes to either extreme. If she is doing ALL of the pursuing, you probably aren't really into her in the first place. If YOU are doing all of the pursuing, you need to look at how you are spending your time and how much you value yourself.

Personally I am a big fan of AD's stuff and I think it can work for almost anyone. It's a simple system---you filter based on interest level. And it works; but I think you can miss out on some potentially great girls if you dont take the bull by the horns sometimes. Interest level filtering is a passive system. It works, but you only catch what flows into your net. Sometimes you have to go out and HUNT---and actively pursue what you want. Then once you've established you want her you can pull back and see how she reacts.

Whoever does the most pursuing is establishing the other as the most valuable party. Dating is a culture now and there isnt much chivalry and traditionalism left. It's all about not being the one to get burned. And it sucks that it has become that way. But, ideally, as DJs we should all reach a point of zen where we dont care about the outcome, because we are so secure in ourselves and our value. When this happens you can present yourself in a very non-pretentious way, as you are.

 

[zekko]

For guys who have trouble attracting women, suggesting that they have women pursue them can be a bit of a puzzler.

When you ARE able to attract women of sufficient high interest, I find that they will not usually have any qualms about contacting you. As long as you make them feel welcome, and aren't playing these "I'm so busy it takes me a week to return your call" games with them.

I'm thinking it's mostly very young girls who are afraid to initiate contact. They probably have some shyness they haven't grown out of yet.

 

[betheman]

The problem I have with being the pursuer is it can easily set off a needy desperate vibe if not done right. Plus it shows the girl is of higher value than you unconsciously.

By setting it up so she's pursuing you the roles switch. More effective if you've mastered indifference as if you've already got tons of women contacting you first trying to see you. Less work on your part with same end reward.

I like this! Initially the man will be the pursuer, but that cannot continue, its not healthy, as tryst set, at some point you need to be able to flip the script she she becomes the pursuer, unexpectedly becoming unavailable when before you were a bit more predictable, creating a little mystery, she wil become curious. this doesnt mean dissapearing off the radar for a month, not ansering a call, mising a date, not apologising for doing so but then switching it all back on, introducing a little bit of unpredictability. if she is into you, she will pursue, it has to be quite subtle and natural though. if you play games, you will be caught out

 

[sageproduct]

I actually think OP was on to something here.

Some women, no matter how interested, just have strange ideas about initiating contact with men.

We need to accept this, throw the ego aside and give each woman a fair shot at pursuing her. Reading my old stupid reports from 3 years ago, there was one girl I nexted who I NOW KNOW was very interested in me but was just very shy, insecure, and against initiating contact.

In the end, I gave up because I thought she wasn't interested. She thought she lost me because I wasn't interested enough to pursue. We were both actually so interested but so inexperienced that we were relying on ill-applied advice from outside sources.

Stupid, stupid sh!t.

Now, if you're going steady with a girl and she STILL never initiates contact, then I think that is an ill sign in our day and age.

 

[tryst type]

I've lost many contacts by this one stupid game of who's pursuing who. Honestly it can become too much work and not worth it especially if texting is the only means of communication.

I had a girl once text me after I sent two texts with no response "hi this is me but I'm like a chase keep texting until I like one then ill respond" like really? Her number got deleted quick.

 

[moon goddess]

For guys who have trouble attracting women, suggesting that they have women pursue them can be a bit of a puzzler.

When you ARE able to attract women of sufficient high interest, I find that they will not usually have any qualms about contacting you. As long as you make them feel welcome, and aren't playing these "I'm so busy it takes me a week to return your call" games with them.

I'm thinking it's mostly very young girls who are afraid to initiate contact. They probably have some shyness they haven't grown out of yet.

I had a man who was doing that to me so I stopped initiating contact. I wasn't initiating contact often but when I stopped, he thought something was wrong with me or I had another man. Lmao.

This man is damn near 40 years old. He is too old to be doing this childish crap.