Need Help Gentlemen

[yuppaz]

Hey all,

I've been doing very well in getting dates lately. Really well, BUT there is something seriously wrong with what is happening when I go on these dates. I don't know exactly what it is about me that is so terrible in these girls minds, but it is a definite trend.

I am good looking, dress well etc. prob why so easy to get the dates in the first place. I usually take them somewhere nice that they haven't done before / might find interesting. I've tried to just have fun and be a bit crazy, I've tried opening up and being honest about my life, I've tried to just play it aloof and cool, I've tried alllll kinds of sh*t.... one time I thought it went really well was when the girl basically friend zoned me and we hung out in that zone, I was flirting successfully with chicks along the way because I just didn't give a f*ck. Then ignoring her when she was annoying to me by being on the phone way too much. I paused in stories etc. She seemed to really be into it, and drawn to me and hinting that she prob made a mistake by FZ'ing me...I really didn't care, didn't want her anyway. Seems like when I disrespect and play games for fun in my mind things go well, but when I show respect and be open (like I want to be) they think me weak or something, they lose interest quickly.

I don't think I have any kind of frame at all, my nature is to be somewhat flexible and change with my moods, I'm not exactly an inflexible mind set kind of person. I'm compassionate by nature and kind of a free spirit, but when I act like how I am it's a f*cking turn off.

Been quite a while that I've been basically trying whatever I can think of to get better at the dating game. Never have been good at it in my life. Spending way too much money on dates that don't go anywhere too, and really can't afford it. I am not sure that I can hold that ****y confident frame that I approach with, as I generally don't feel comfortable on a first date, and I think that is coming through. I approach when I feel good, but on a date I don't feel as good at all.

Can anyone that has had these issues and overcome them, or someone that is just really good with women help me gain a better perspective on what is going wrong?

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

You're trying too hard. Get in the zone where you aren't "trying" to be one way or the other, where you simply are what you are, and you're cool with that, because you work hard to be who you're going to be. Nothing worthwhile is easy, your confidence is truly equal to how hard you have worked.

Also, make a concerted effort to build up your masculine character. Find the areas of deficiency in your life and do whatever is beyond necessary to eliminate them without mercy. The goal is not to be perfect; the goal is to always be working towards perfection. You will feel a thousand times better and that you are going someplace; maybe she'll come along. Place the focus on yourself; you are the work in progress, the man whose star is rising.

 

[sodbuster]

Spend less money, IF she thinks you have to BUY her, she's not as interested. Don't try so hard, relax and let it come to you. AND have more women in the works. Last Friday, my brother and I were in the bar and ran into some "WHOO!,WHOO! girls" we knew celebrating a birthday. They made noise to make sure EVERYONE knew they were having fun-later that night, a different 21 yr old gave me her # and another woman invited me to another bar. When I didn't go,she came back to try getting me. We had about 4 different women after us-and we didn't do anything to try[competition between women]

 

[Commandante]

I am not sure that I can hold that ****y confident frame that I approach with, as I generally don't feel comfortable on a first date, and I think that is coming through. I approach when I feel good, but on a date I don't feel as good at all.

You may be right. Women notice if you don´t feel comfortable in a situation, and if this happens on the first date… yeah, you are fvcked up! What can you do?

1: Do directly before the date something you like and makes you feel good for a while. Sport can be a good choice. During sport your body produces the hormone endorphin which makes you feel good, even after doing sport. It´s like a drug. Don´t forget to have a shower and a proper meal after sport and avoid getting dehydrated – could cause problems if you end up in bed. And try not to drink – too much – alcohol. After sport it can knock you out very quickly.

 

[Commandante]

2: Going to restaurants/cafeterias and sitting face to face or having long walks with even longer conversations is an away game. Women are comfortable with this kind of places – they are at places like this all the time – and use twice as much brain cells for conversations like you do. Make a home game of the date! For that you have to choose an activity and a place you are comfortable with! Riding a bike, skating, rollerblading, playing billiard/darts/bowling etc. is a good alternative to restaurants. Your body is active and both of you feel happy without any reason… yeah, it´s endorphin again. Your hands are occupied (but not with her tits… not jet) so you don´t have to talk all the time. It´s even better if she is not familiar with the activity. You can teach her… and go kino without any other reason. Don´t be afraid of getting beaten by a beginner. Hey, you are her trainer, so it´s still your success! Go and get comfortable on your own with the route/place before the date!

3: Learn to dance! Not the sh!t you see in music videos but real dance, like salsa, tango, whatever. It´s a useful skill in a lot of situations in life. Go out and dance with her! Is the same like point 2. with the only difference that you start touching her!

 

[jonwon]

Hey all,

I've been doing very well in getting dates lately. Really well, BUT there is something seriously wrong with what is happening when I go on these dates. I don't know exactly what it is about me that is so terrible in these girls minds, but it is a definite trend.

I am good looking, dress well etc. prob why so easy to get the dates in the first place. I usually take them somewhere nice that they haven't done before / might find interesting. I've tried to just have fun and be a bit crazy, I've tried opening up and being honest about my life, I've tried to just play it aloof and cool, I've tried alllll kinds of sh*t.... one time I thought it went really well was when the girl basically friend zoned me and we hung out in that zone, I was flirting successfully with chicks along the way because I just didn't give a f*ck. Then ignoring her when she was annoying to me by being on the phone way too much. I paused in stories etc. She seemed to really be into it, and drawn to me and hinting that she prob made a mistake by FZ'ing me...I really didn't care, didn't want her anyway. Seems like when I disrespect and play games for fun in my mind things go well, but when I show respect and be open (like I want to be) they think me weak or something, they lose interest quickly.

I don't think I have any kind of frame at all, my nature is to be somewhat flexible and change with my moods, I'm not exactly an inflexible mind set kind of person. I'm compassionate by nature and kind of a free spirit, but when I act like how I am it's a f*cking turn off.

Been quite a while that I've been basically trying whatever I can think of to get better at the dating game. Never have been good at it in my life. Spending way too much money on dates that don't go anywhere too, and really can't afford it. I am not sure that I can hold that ****y confident frame that I approach with, as I generally don't feel comfortable on a first date, and I think that is coming through. I approach when I feel good, but on a date I don't feel as good at all.

Can anyone that has had these issues and overcome them, or someone that is just really good with women help me gain a better perspective on what is going wrong?

You need to answer a few questions.

1: Why are you spending money on dates and why is it too expensive, what exactly are you paying for?

2: What sort of things are you talking about in terms of 'telling her about yourself' - what is it your discussing or what is it you feel you need to talk about with the girl.

3: Are you meeting these girls online or out in the field, clubs or bars or through work - the reason why I ask is because with online chicks, I'd like to know your reasoning in taking them somewhere 'special'.

4: Why do you think that being an ars*hole in your own terms is bad when your getting results from it, or that being 'nice' is perfectly ok, when its actually back-firing - My take on this is, your not actually being an ars*hole, your probably calling the girl out on her shi* and teasing her - your 'nice' guy moments are probably a product of trying to 'make' her like you by 'blabbering' on about yourself - correct me if I am wrong!

P.S admins/mods I'd like a name change, made an account called Mako, not sure how to go about this through official means - Made the account just waiting on email confirmation, any chance I could infact change this existing one?

Cheers.

 

[squirrels]

And I look in the mirror all the time,
Wonderin' what she don't see in me.
I've been funny, I've been cool with the lines...
Ain't that the way love's supposed to be?

You cannot seduce a woman's mind. "Approval" from a woman does not get you laid. You can convince her that you are the perfect guy and you will never be anything but a friend.

What is it you WANT from girls?

 

[Commandante]

What is it you WANT from girls?

If she wants you, it doesn´t matter what you want from her. She will do everything you want.

If she doesn´t want you, it doesn´t matter what you want from her. She will do nothing you want.

What you want from her doesn´t matter at all.

On the other hand it´s obvious. Wash, iron, fvck, etc.

 

[evesman]

It sounds like "all talk and no action." Sexual escalation is missing.

 

[squirrels]

It sounds like "all talk and no action." Sexual escalation is missing.

Agreed.

The longest and most arduous way to a girl's heart is through her mind. The shortest and easiest is through her loins.

Women WANT you to f**k them.

This secret lies at the heart of seduction...it is the reason that 99% of men fail with women. It's the secret women are afraid to admit, even to themselves. It's the reason she falls madly in love with the arseholes who only want (and get) that "one thing, while the upstanding men break upon her and scatter as they try to prove themselves worthy. Worthiness does not equate automatically to attraction.

 

[jophil28]

Agreed.

The longest and most arduous way to a girl's heart is through her mind. The shortest and easiest is through her loins.

Women WANT you to f**k them.

This secret lies at the heart of seduction...it is the reason that 99% of men fail with women. It's the secret women are afraid to admit, even to themselves. It's the reason she falls madly in love with the arseholes who only want (and get) that "one thing, while the upstanding men break upon her and scatter as they try to prove themselves worthy. Worthiness does not equate automatically to attraction.

Truth..golden truth.
Most of us have made the mistake of trying to 'prove our value' to a woman who is difficult or standoffish or gunshy. IT never worked for me.
I had to learn how to operate under her emotional radar via her 'feelings'.
That is THE WAY, gentlemen.

 

[yuppaz]

Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom. I have tried to answer your questions below:

1: Why are you spending money on dates and why is it too expensive, what exactly are you paying for?

Lunch, Dinner, drinks whatever. I wouldn't mind if it ended up going somewhere, but it hasn't been.

2: What sort of things are you talking about in terms of 'telling her about yourself' - what is it your discussing or what is it you feel you need to talk about with the girl.

I guess getting to know each other kind of info, who I am, what I like to do, who she is etc. Sometimes I've realized that I am not light enough in the convo & have a number of quiet moments.

3: Are you meeting these girls online or out in the field, clubs or bars or through work - the reason why I ask is because with online chicks, I'd like to know your reasoning in taking them somewhere 'special'.

I have pretty much met all these girls on cold approaches
during the day. Last night I met a few in a club.

4: Why do you think that being an ars*hole in your own terms is bad when your getting results from it, or that being 'nice' is perfectly ok, when its actually back-firing - My take on this is, your not actually being an ars*hole, your probably calling the girl out on her shi* and teasing her - your 'nice' guy moments are probably a product of trying to 'make' her like you by 'blabbering' on about yourself - correct me if I am wrong!

With that date / friend hang out thing I mentioned, I was an ******* by flirting with other girls and ignoring her from time to time etc. This girl though had some real issues and I think that she responded just for that reason.



What is it you WANT from girls?

I want to stick my c@ck in them, and maybe if I find one that I really like, get her to be a girlfriend. But the most important thing to me is to know that I can have whatever selection that I want and do not have to end up with another f*cked up girl like my last one. I want a beautiful girl that is healthy, is into me for me and doesn't take c@ck on the side.


Regarding escalation and sexual attraction, I am losing these on the very first date. I have tried being very touchy and sexual and the girl didn't even want to kiss (didn't mind the hands though) and stopped responding after the first date. What is an appropriate level of sexual attention for a first date? Can you give me examples of exactly what you will do to move things forward in a dating ladder?

btw. I could give a f*ck about actual "dating", if there are better ways to get in these girls panties then that early on I'm all for it. I just want to be able to approach and succeed wherever I am, and it mostly happens to be during the day time, so it may seem strange to do anything else if that is the approach.

Thanks again for follow ups gents!

 

[evesman]

First of all, congrats on getting the dates!

My most recent girl, it took two dates before we hooked up. First, there was some sexual banter by phone and email. She was the one hinting around-she said she was alot to "handle."

On the date, I just got hammered, lol. Well, just tipsy. There was some sexual kino, thigh touching which I initiated. She was cool with it, so I kiss closed at the end. She picked up the tab btw.

On the second date, I had her over at my place to watch tv. So the isolation was there already.

So, basically, it cost me zero dollars, and I got some free drinks, food and eventually sex.

---

I think if you're spending a lot of money, you're falling into the so-called "provider frame" and she will see you in that way. It's not wrong to spend money, but since it's not getting you the results you want right now, I wouldn't emphasize it in the future.

I wouldn't start out too strong with sexual touching. You can progress from hand holding, to touching on the arm (outside of hand first), to hugs, kiss on the cheek, kiss on the lips, makeout.

If she resists at some point, you can try again later. But start with non sexual touching, then gradually escalate.

Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom. I have tried to answer your questions below:

1: Why are you spending money on dates and why is it too expensive, what exactly are you paying for?

Lunch, Dinner, drinks whatever. I wouldn't mind if it ended up going somewhere, but it hasn't been.

2: What sort of things are you talking about in terms of 'telling her about yourself' - what is it your discussing or what is it you feel you need to talk about with the girl.

I guess getting to know each other kind of info, who I am, what I like to do, who she is etc. Sometimes I've realized that I am not light enough in the convo & have a number of quiet moments.

3: Are you meeting these girls online or out in the field, clubs or bars or through work - the reason why I ask is because with online chicks, I'd like to know your reasoning in taking them somewhere 'special'.

I have pretty much met all these girls on cold approaches
during the day. Last night I met a few in a club.

4: Why do you think that being an ars*hole in your own terms is bad when your getting results from it, or that being 'nice' is perfectly ok, when its actually back-firing - My take on this is, your not actually being an ars*hole, your probably calling the girl out on her shi* and teasing her - your 'nice' guy moments are probably a product of trying to 'make' her like you by 'blabbering' on about yourself - correct me if I am wrong!

With that date / friend hang out thing I mentioned, I was an ******* by flirting with other girls and ignoring her from time to time etc. This girl though had some real issues and I think that she responded just for that reason.



What is it you WANT from girls?

I want to stick my c@ck in them, and maybe if I find one that I really like, get her to be a girlfriend. But the most important thing to me is to know that I can have whatever selection that I want and do not have to end up with another f*cked up girl like my last one. I want a beautiful girl that is healthy, is into me for me and doesn't take c@ck on the side.


Regarding escalation and sexual attraction, I am losing these on the very first date. I have tried being very touchy and sexual and the girl didn't even want to kiss (didn't mind the hands though) and stopped responding after the first date. What is an appropriate level of sexual attention for a first date? Can you give me examples of exactly what you will do to move things forward in a dating ladder?

btw. I could give a f*ck about actual "dating", if there are better ways to get in these girls panties then that early on I'm all for it. I just want to be able to approach and succeed wherever I am, and it mostly happens to be during the day time, so it may seem strange to do anything else if that is the approach.

Thanks again for follow ups gents!

 

[jonwon]

Thanks for the reply, you where good enough to respond, so I’ll do reply in kind.

First:

Q
1: Why are you spending money on dates and why is it too expensive, what exactly are you paying for?

Lunch, Dinner, drinks whatever. I wouldn't mind if it ended up going somewhere, but it hasn't been.

--------
A
I’m not going to offer advice at this stage (well maybe a little) – I want to know your ‘mind set’, I,e are you paying for these things because ‘you want to’ and you can afford it or are you paying for these things because you feel you ‘have to’.

Please reply, thanks

------------
Q
2: What sort of things are you talking about in terms of 'telling her about yourself' - what is it your discussing or what is it you feel you need to talk about with the girl.

I guess getting to know each other kind of info, who I am, what I like to do, who she is etc. Sometimes I've realized that I am not light enough in the convo & have a number of quiet moments.

A
How much of this communication is spread out between yourself and her? Do you ask open ended questions, i.e questions that need a response that isn’t a yes or a no, an example being – ‘tell me about your school days’, or ‘if you could pick somewhere to go on a spur of the moment and just think fuc* it, where would that be’, or ‘Who is your favourite actor’.

A close question is something like this ‘Do you like Italian food’, instead of asking that, an open question could be ‘what food do you like the most if we ate out'.

One thing to avoid is asking too many questions. Listen to what she says and then make the conversation about that – i.e “I love Italian food actually”, “Yeh me too, ham and pasta with some parmesan cheese sprinkled, it just melts in your mouth, mm I can taste it already, what’s your favourite dish”?

Silence moments, these can be awkward, your thinking ‘you need to say something’, but know this – she is also thinking the same thing – A good way to get around this is to get some trivia in your head, local news, celebrity gossip, latest trends, whats happening in big brother (I hate big brother), whats her favourite type of music – Simply find things you can fall back on – If all else fails get a few jokes in your arsenal, Learn to tell jokes in a manner that gives them punch – break the silence with “hey I’ve got a joke you may like, want to hear it”, swap jokes with her.


Close ended questions, are questions that have no outcome but a 'yes' or 'no' type response - open ended questions lead to discussions and require a sentence or more to answer, try to use open ended questions and dont use close ended ones.
-------
Q
3: Are you meeting these girls online or out in the field, clubs or bars or through work - the reason why I ask is because with online chicks, I'd like to know your reasoning in taking them somewhere 'special'.

I have pretty much met all these girls on cold approaches
during the day. Last night I met a few in a club.

A
Then your almost there, that’s more than most guys can get – no advice needed then

----------

Q
4: Why do you think that being an ars*hole in your own terms is bad when your getting results from it, or that being 'nice' is perfectly ok, when its actually back-firing - My take on this is, your not actually being an ars*hole, your probably calling the girl out on her shi* and teasing her - your 'nice' guy moments are probably a product of trying to 'make' her like you by 'blabbering' on about yourself - correct me if I am wrong!


With that date / friend hang out thing I mentioned, I was an ******* by flirting with other girls and ignoring her from time to time etc. This girl though had some real issues and I think that she responded just for that reason.

A
I think the one who may have some issues is you, no offence but hear me out – You may have a wrong world view about women, in-fact, when you have a girls initial attraction you can ramp that up by showing her you are a man of high value, a part of that is to demonstrate you are desirable by other girls – but you cross the ars*hole ground when you ramp up that interaction and try to forcefully make her jealous, what your doing is simply using a girl has a prop and nothing else. It’s not a bad thing at all, you just think it’s bad because you probably have a certain set of beliefs around women that is making you think this way – which is counter-productive – A good guru for you to handle this stuff would probably be David D, since he talks about this a lot – It’s actually one of his biggest things – I’d check him out. You can also see a lot here, squirrels in-fact is an expert on this too (the right mind set to have around women), scan some of his posts, you’ll be surprised, he knows his shi*.


-------

What is it you WANT from girls?

I want to stick my c@ck in them, and maybe if I find one that I really like, get her to be a girlfriend. But the most important thing to me is to know that I can have whatever selection that I want and do not have to end up with another f*cked up girl like my last one. I want a beautiful girl that is healthy, is into me for me and doesn't take c@ck on the side.


Regarding escalation and sexual attraction, I am losing these on the very first date. I have tried being very touchy and sexual and the girl didn't even want to kiss (didn't mind the hands though) and stopped responding after the first date. What is an appropriate level of sexual attention for a first date? Can you give me examples of exactly what you will do to move things forward in a dating ladder?

btw. I could give a f*ck about actual "dating", if there are better ways to get in these girls panties then that early on I'm all for it. I just want to be able to approach and succeed wherever I am, and it mostly happens to be during the day time, so it may seem strange to do anything else if that is the approach.


-------------------------

I’ve not been on a date has long as I can remember – You don’t have to date, you can arrange them to do many things – dating is safe, but I have a secret to let onto you – Girls don’t like dating too – it’s a chore and a bore – most girls you meet in the club – can actually be persuaded or encouraged to come back to your place the first night – or after a few drinks in a bar (on the date and in the evening "hey i've got a couple of bottles of wine in my fridge, red and white, why dont we head back and finish those off, my sofa is far more comfortable then this chair, i'll stick some good tunes on - it will be great".

I would recommend getting out of the ‘date’ mindset, yes ‘date’ but don’t make it your number one defining way ‘you must use’ to meet women, on the contrary a ‘date’ should be a ‘back up’ thing you use, if you sense the girl needs a little more coaxing – but if your getting a girl from a club to ‘date’ believe me her interest is pretty ‘high’ so its not that she is not interested in you, its because your probably not esculating the interation and she is likely to get bored – what she wants, when she is alone with you, is 3 possible scenarios.

1: She is looking for a beta provider and is scoping you out for such.
2: She has no agenda and is simply along for the ride
3: She wants some fun and is waiting for you to escalate so she can have it (women do not escalate normally, they want to excuse there actions has ‘your fault’ incase her friends find out because she does not want to be a ‘slag’ hence it’s all your fault, you where just too ‘smooth’ too ‘attractive’ too what-ever – it don’t matter her reason she will rationalize it after you have fuc*ed her why she fuc*ed you and It will always be a good reason, because a bad reason makes her look bad.

Also maybe your escalating the wrong way – I have found this works great – if she makes a sexual comment, pull her on it and say things like ‘you girls are all the same, sex, sex, sex’ – tease her on it – what you don’t do is chump out and start foaming at the mouth – girls seem to love a challenge, they want to know they have got you – and by teasing them it communicates that you have standards and more often than not they will act like a horny man does and keep probing the subject or what you will find is they don’t ‘excuse’ the accusation you’ve just implied that all women think about sex. Give it a try – restrain yourself, from your horn-dogness, tease her on her’s make her squirm in her seat – it’s very powerful.

Another one.

If she mocks herself - join in – mock her too – If she says ‘my hair looks a mess’ you say ‘well I didn’t want to say anything’ DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT say ‘it looks nice actually’.

 

[Commandante]

I’ve not been on a date has long as I can remember

No offence, but in this case listening to others would make more sense for you than talking about things you only read about.

You don’t have to date, you can arrange them to do many things

This´s exactly what I said. But I was a bit shorter. Do you know how quality is related to quantity? This rule also applies for the lenght of posts.

 

[jonwon]

No offence, but in this case listening to others would make more sense for you than talking about things you only read about.



This´s exactly what I said. But I was a bit shorter. Do you know how quality is related to quantity? This rule also applies for the lenght of posts.

Lol.

Commandante, I think you’re a troll.

Let me get something clear to you right now bud! I've slept with more women then I can even count a claim I make often, because now and again guys like you come along with your flames and none constructive posts.

Now how many girls have you dated and slept with?

I have been married.
I have had more GF then I can even think of.

Had more one night stands then I can even remember.

slept with 3 girls in one day.

Have a rotation of about 3 girls almost always (apart from the last few months where I am seeing one exclusive).

The point about the not going on dates thing, is because I DONT HAVE TO.

Are you just trying to fish for attention or start a flame war, first you call Squirrels out then you try it on me. So what is it?


So what you made a similar post, just because you posted somewhere does not mean the whole world has to sit up and take notice and not reply or input - I just think you’re hungry for attention.

 

[NewMan]

I usually take them somewhere nice that they haven't done before / might find interesting. I've tried to just have fun and be a bit crazy, I've tried opening up and being honest about my life, I've tried to just play it aloof and cool, I've tried alllll kinds of sh*t.... one time I thought it went really well was when the girl basically friend zoned me and we hung out in that zone, I was flirting successfully with chicks along the way because I just didn't give a f*ck. Then ignoring her when she was annoying to me by being on the phone way too much. I paused in stories etc. She seemed to really be into it, and drawn to me and hinting that she prob made a mistake by FZ'ing me...I really didn't care, didn't want her anyway. Seems like when I disrespect and play games for fun in my mind things go well, but when I show respect and be open (like I want to be) they think me weak or something, they lose interest quickly.

Here is the thing - you try to hard with girls you dig - and you don't give a sh1t with girls you don't.

Your basically trying to hard and giving off a desperate/needy kind of vibe. Stop over complicating things =- if anything, shorten the initial couple of dates and follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Stop talking about you, your background, past or future plans. just keep it light - and mainly about her.

Forget about all this Mental BS - just keep it simple.

Your game plan should be to meet her for ****tails - preferably based around an acitivity - darts or pool etc - get some juice flowing then ramp up the heat from there. No need for coffee, dinner, or any of that BS. Forget about day dates - they are a waste of your time.

Battle plan:

****tails
Keep your mouth shut
Ramp up the heat - i.e. flirt, flirt, flirt
Keep it simple

 

[sodbuster]

If you spend too much time talking about plans,etc. she can find a reason to disqualify you. After sex, she'll let alot of little things slide-she has an investment in you[time and money and sex]. SO, too much information on the first date/meeting is actually bad for your sex life. If she finds out you are a Catholic,allergic to pets,wants 10 kids,have a family history of heart attacks,hate her music,etc. she has a whole list of things to DQ you. It will be hard to find someone who is a perfect match to her. Let her think you might be[or close enough]

 

[Sinistar]

... but when I show respect and be open (like I want to be) they think me weak or something, they lose interest quickly ... I'm compassionate by nature and kind of a free spirit, but when I act like how I am it's a f*cking turn off.

I extracted the only part that really matters. You're battling the same thing that 95% of us all battled. Unlearning how you were initially trained to interact with women. For the first 18yrs of your life you were programmed to treat your mother and sisters pretty much the way you describe above.

But these women you are dating are not your mother or sisters! These women grew up (mostly) with one strong model for a male (their father) which will never change for them. Their father was not "open" and neither did he go out of his way to "show respect". He typically did not shower her with gifts, barf out feelings or put her on a pedestal. He didn't tolerate sh!t. And he commanded a frame so strong she'll always compare every guy's frame to it (even if it wasn't healthy).

Unprogram yourself of this need to treat all women as if they were a mother / sister. They want to be treated as desireable independentcreatures. They want to know you'll provide security but they don't want you outwardly displaying it or indicating it. They need you to confident, mysterious, C&F, etc, etc, etc.

You're a man now, not a son - so adopt that frame for life. With it comes responsibilities and rewards

 

[MrLuvr]

btw. I could give a f*ck about actual "dating", if there are better ways to get in these girls panties then that early on I'm all for it. I just want to be able to approach and succeed wherever I am, and it mostly happens to be during the day time, so it may seem strange to do anything else if that is the approach.

Thanks again for follow ups gents!

Try escalating them in the club. Get the phone number early on in the game, but try to up their buying temperature the very same night. Get a little physical, put your arm around them, get them to the dance floor and use it as an excuse to get physically close. Go for the makeout. If you get blown out the first time, don't back down. Try again after a few minutes. Try to pull them from the club to another mini date the same night. "I am hungry, let us grab a bite to eat." etc. From there move the action to your place. Women want an excuse to come over to your place and get fvcked. So, make it as easy for them as possible.

And when you do go out on a date, don't waste your time buying them expensive dinners. Right there is where you are losing them. You are coming across as trying too hard. Meet them for a drink, somewhere casual. Nobody takes women out for fancy dinners anymore. Not unless they have proven their worth to you.