need help by christian guys

[Delta]

THE PUA WAY and christianity is not NECESSARILY conflicting. PUA is about INFLICTING DESIRE in women, making them want you, being such a man that inspires that desire in them. (but i disagree that 'manning up' should be the focus here... the focus should be in being able to fvck as you please... anything else is the ingredients to get that.. and even then, only when it is NECESSARY. there's a reason we are HERE instead of "how to live a more beautiful life" website).

but what it IS like is being a great chef that can never taste his food.

another analogy is building the most devastating nuclear weapon to make sure you take out one single person. sure, if that person MUST be taken out, this will do the job but onlookers can't help wondering if there wasn't a degree of overzealousness involved.

delta

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

Who's a God hater? What poster on this board has said they hated God?

I don't think your statement is true. This is not very christian like.

Please repent

Let me help you with this.

Anyone who makes disparaging and/or mocking comments about God and those who love Him is certainly a God-hater. God should never be mocked, woudn't you agree?

Anyone who accuses God of going against one of His own commandments is a God-hater. God is often accused of breaking His own commandment, "Thou shall not murder". The Hebrew word is clearly "murder", by the way, not "kill". Murder implies the taking of innocent life. Read in context, any killing that was condoned or even commissioned by God was the result of His righteous judgement of sin. "The wages of sin is death".

Aye, but there's the rub, as our pirate friends are fond of saying. Men abhor the notion that they are sinners. "My God is a God of love and would never condemn anyone". Guess again. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of judgement.

A judge in any court in the United States is compelled to mete out judgement and justice, which entails punishment. It's not an option. If he did not do this, if he let guilty parties go, he would be considered a bad judge indeed. God, since He is a God of justice, is likewise constrained and compelled to deal with sin. If He did not, He would not be a good God at all.

And by the way, He determines what is sin, not us. Man hates the fact that God calls him a sinner. Man rebels against this. Man hates God because of this. Man mocks God because of this, and man mocks those who agree with God because of this.

Regarding your last comment, it is certainly most Christian-like to point out sin. Jesus did it. The apostles did it. What hope is there of becoming right with God if you are not made aware that you are a sinner in need of salvation?

The best thing that ever happened to me in my life was the day I learned that I was a sinner in rebellion against God and that I needed a savior.

 

[JonJack]

The issue facing the poster is one of conviction and has nothing to do with religion. Religion could very well be replaced with preferences or principals, and the dilemma would still be the same.

The problem here is that '0219' wants to believe and practice the 'no sex before marriage' rule. But his conviction on this isn't strong enough to override his inate desire to screw now. He doesn't even know how far he should take the 'no sex before marriage' thing literally. Is oral sex? Is anal sex? Is fingering sex? Who the hell knows? What you do know is that it would be great if you could do all those things before marriage. Just enjoy it while you have the chance. But then the conviction on this isn't particularly strong either because the thought of going against the scripture isn't a good one.

So, the question now comes to one of choice. Choose one or the other. If you do not, and continue to live in this middle ground because if you actually manage to find it, you can have the best of both worlds, then you can very well continue living your life in confusion and conflict.

The important thing though is what you believe in. If you can come up with your own interpretation of the scripture so that it benefits you, and you believe in your interpretation even if it is against what most Christians practice, good for you. Because that is your belief. That is what you choose to believe in. If you want someone to show you the way, if you want someone to tell you what is what, what is wrong, what is right and all that, then you better be very careful with who you choose to listen to and believe in.

Frankly speaking, I would rather see you coming up with your own interpretation of Christianity to fit your life than to seek for someone else's interpretation and you fitting into that.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Amen Ghengis Khan, preach it brother!

 

[Delta]

GK,

i disagree that it has to do with christianity perse... let's not feed any persecution complexes.

the issue is the "holy", "set apart", "not of this world", "we are right, you are so very lost" devoutness. they are, and DESIRE TO BE, alien.

people would have a similar reaction to any other ultra devotion.... doubt he would get much more sympathy if he claimed to be a scientologist, or snake worshipper.

delta

p.s. here's one for the faithful... what about the OT god going scorched earth policy when he had his people take over the promised land? the order was to kill every last man, woman, child wasn't it? killing INFANTS is not murder? i have never heard a good explanation for this so don't feel bad if you can't explain it away.

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

JonJack,

The realization that's missing here is a critically important one:

We don't judge scripture. Rather, scripture judges us.

If you don't belive that scripture is the Word of God, you will always be persuing an "interpretation" that suits you and allows you to justify whatever lifestyle you want without too much guilt.

If, however, you do believe that scripture is the Word of God, then you dig, you work, you mine the gold out of it. You realize that scripture reveals us for who we really are, and it reveals who God really is.

In a very real sense, God wrote scripture to enlighten us and to strip us of our pride. This is an expression of His love for us because our pride inevitably separates us from Him. He graciously provided a way for us to shed our illusions about Him and about ourselves, but man is very proud and obstinate and often prefers the preservation of his illusions, which serve to elevate him above God in his own mind.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I would say that his being a Christian certainly does merit distinction.

He is experiencing a conflict based on what he learns here vs. his spiritual beliefs, or at least that which he believes is taught in scripture.

I think it's a fair question and it's incomprehensible to me why mature, enlightened men would disparage any man for inquiring of others who share his spiritual beliefs.

Thanks for the explanation. Am I oversimplifying it in suggesting that a person should choose a path to follow and just follow it? If it's one of distention such as a religious one, one that's social (e.g., DJ, PUA, SS etc.), political, personal morality or whatever, use its specific guidelines, that's it. Which ever one he chooses to define himself is the path that he should logically take.

I know someone will toss out the premise that the world is not black and white, that rules don't fit every situation; I agree. That is why I don't choose to define myself by anything that doesn't allow variance; but that's just me.

 

[requested]

hey guys,,

reading some of this actually does hurt my heart because of a lot of peoples opinion on christianity. Christians are not suppose to act better or above people because some refrain from certain actions and maybe dont do some of the stuff other people do, however we are suppose to love everyone, thus showing Jesus' love,. also as christians, we dont have all the answers, and we dont claim to, God does. It is not our duty to figure out God's plan, but to live by his rules, WHICH ARE BEST FOR US. God is not like a punisher looking to smite whoever breaks his rules. His rules are designed so that we may live the happiest and fulfilling lives. Our society is all about instant gratification and sex now etc... But God says that by waiting and sharign this wiht a wife, you will be happier and your mind can be on other important things in life as opposed to how many times you can get laid. God is love, and i think people including myself get away from that, we view him as someone out to get us in trouble, where infact, God is the more forgiving then any of us could imagine. Luke, im a christian and i have struggled with these problems too, i have tried to find ways to avoid it like oh oral doesnt ocunt ect.... and i honestly do not have the answers, however i do feel that when you are close to God, and feel his spirit and convictions, your heart will tell you what is right. Also, the Bible is not 100 percent literal and is written with the culture obviously. but as christians we do believe that these humans were divinely inspired to write what is written, and that what is now the Bible is our lifes manual, but i can also tell yall amazing stories about the bible and how it has survived when the odds were less than one and a million,... God is alive and is working, just because he doesnt throw miracle after miracle at us doesnt mean he isnt working. God wants us to take a leap of faith into accepting him and his son Jesus. If he performed miracle after miracle, then everyone would believe, and it wouldnt be based on faith. Christianity is based on faith in what we cannot factually prove. however, as a christian, who may not be on the right road now currently, i can attest to this power and his reality and hhis presence, Luke, i would say surround yourself with fellow christians for support, that has always made itself easiest for me,

and if any of you are feeling like somethin is missin in your life, i can guarantee that the amount of women you sleep with and the kinda car you have isnt going to fill this emptiness, but Jesus can fill that emptiness, and he wants to save you,

christianity is NOT BASED ON DEEEDS, plenty of christians have chosen to not follow the path of Jesus, but still will go to heaven because the honestly in their hearts believe that jesus is the son of God and was sent to the earth to die on teh cross for humanitys sin, however only God can judge a humans heart and what he/she believes.

i am prayin for all of you

 

[Passion]

christianity is NOT BASED ON DEEEDS

Exactly, one of the goals is to sin as much as possible. Read John 3:16 for how to get into heaven. If you want to mock God, then do it. We're all sinners so it doesn't matter.

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

Amen Ghengis Khan, preach it brother!

Thanks, Luke. It is my sincere desire that this thread will inspire a few to reconsider their preconceived notions about God and cause some to realize that God is knowable.

 

[Delta]

requested,

but are YOU not simplifying? salvation is not based on deeds... but that does not absolve you of doing good or the responsibility of not sinning right? you are not free to do as you please - there is indeed a cost to be counted.

tricky eh?

delta

 

[Passion]

Anyone who accuses God of going against one of His own commandments is a God-hater.

No, it's called thinking with a brain. You are not a god-lover, but a lemming who enjoys following without using thought.

 

[Helter Skelter]

Let me help you with this.

Anyone who makes disparaging and/or mocking comments about God and those who love Him is certainly a God-hater. God should never be mocked, woudn't you agree?

Anyone who accuses God of going against one of His own commandments is a God-hater. God is often accused of breaking His own commandment, "Thou shall not murder". The Hebrew word is clearly "murder", by the way, not "kill". Murder implies the taking of innocent life. Read in context, any killing that was condoned or even commissioned by God was the result of His righteous judgement of sin. "The wages of sin is death".

Aye, but there's the rub, as our pirate friends are fond of saying. Men abhor the notion that they are sinners. "My God is a God of love and would never condemn anyone". Guess again. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of judgement.

A judge in any court in the United States is compelled to mete out judgement and justice, which entails punishment. It's not an option. If he did not do this, if he let guilty parties go, he would be considered a bad judge indeed. God, since He is a God of justice, is likewise constrained and compelled to deal with sin. If He did not, He would not be a good God at all.

And by the way, He determines what is sin, not us. Man hates the fact that God calls him a sinner. Man rebels against this. Man hates God because of this. Man mocks God because of this, and man mocks those who agree with God because of this.

Regarding your last comment, it is certainly most Christian-like to point out sin. Jesus did it. The apostles did it. What hope is there of becoming right with God if you are not made aware that you are a sinner in need of salvation?

The best thing that ever happened to me in my life was the day I learned that I was a sinner in rebellion against God and that I needed a savior.

Did God give you all this information?
Or did a human give this information to you?
Unfortunately, our human history going back 1000's of years is filled with error. Their are many major contradictions and errors that exist.

For example is Jesus Christ the son of God or just a prophet? Or is he neither, an just a mythical figure from the past?

 

[Passion]

Thanks, Luke. It is my sincere desire that this thread will inspire a few to reconsider their preconceived notions about God and cause some to realize that God is knowable.

Hey I just prayed to god and he told me that you're wrong and you have believed in false religion. So now what?

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

Requested,

A lot of what you said is very good but a couple of concepts that you posit are extremely dangerous.

In the first place, the bible does instruct us to point out that man is sinful and in need of a Savior, and this can sometimes, but not alwys, include mentioning specific actions or attitudes. This doesn't put us above others, but rather it enables us to fulfill the great commission. Remember, after many miracles, Jesus said, "Go, and sin no more".

Additionally, your last paragraph is patently misleading. Think about what Jesus said:

Matt 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me,'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
NKJV

This is profound. These are professing Christians, and they are being condemned! These are people who were doing all sorts of great things, citing the name of Jesus, and yet because they were in a lifestyle if sinning, Jesus declared that He never knew them. Scary stuff, there.

Also consider James, Jesus' brother, who said that "Faith without works is dead". He is saying here that unless faith is accompanied by a changed life, this faith is false and ineffectual.

Jesus also said many things regarding obedience to Him, such as:

Luke 6:46
"But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?
NKJV

Make no mistake about it...Jesus expects obedience (although we will always be imperfect), and one of the marks of a true Christian is a changed heart characterized by a desire to be more and more obedient.

 

[JonJack]

JonJack,

The realization that's missing here is a critically important one:

We don't judge scripture. Rather, scripture judges us.

If you don't belive that scripture is the Word of God, you will always be persuing an "interpretation" that suits you and allows you to justify whatever lifestyle you want without too much guilt.

If, however, you do believe that scripture is the Word of God, then you dig, you work, you mine the gold out of it. You realize that scripture reveals us for who we really are, and it reveals who God really is.

In a very real sense, God wrote scripture to enlighten us and to strip us of our pride. This is an expression of His love for us because our pride inevitably separates us from Him. He graciously provided a way for us to shed our illusions about Him and about ourselves, but man is very proud and obstinate and often prefers the preservation of his illusions, which serve to elevate him above God in his own mind.

Everything is based on an individual's interpretation. A group of people witness a miracle and the reasons behind it are left to interpretation. A group of people read the Bible and the interpretation of its words are left to the individuals. Sure a person could believe that the scripture is the Word of God, but how he/she interprets those words is what matters. There are those that interpret the words to extremes and burn abortion clinics and kill Jews. There are others that interpret the same words and condemn those very actions that stemmed from the exact same words.

To most, it's obvious who is wrong. We all like to label things as either wrong or right. Sure, killing and burning things are 'obviously' wrong. But since what goes through the mind of an extremists seems so right to them, other people's interpretation of it as being wrong is moot. Even if the scripture judges the extremists in the end, it seems cruel to do so when deep in their hearts, they truly believed they were following it completely. Thus, an individual's interpretation of the scripture trumps every other person's interpretation only because the idea that the scripture judges us is in fact an interpretation of what the scripture is.

As long as a person is doing whatever they are doing, whether it is bad, wrong, right, good, nice or just plain mean, conviction is the key to peace. Conflict within the self stems from the inability to bridge the gap between desire and principals. I've managed to bridge this gap and give in to desire without breaking my principals because I have created all the rules for myself. I interpret what is right for me and how I want to live my life.

Ultimately, my goal was to find peace in my life. I've found it by creating my own rules. Others could find it by immersing themself in religion. I found out that it's easier to have conviction using my own rules than it is to use the rules of others.

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

No, it's called thinking with a brain. You are not a god-lover, but a lemming who enjoys following without using thought.

Sigh...where to begin?

Actually, I can tell you that I am indeed a God lover, as I have stuck with Him (and He with me) through good times and very bad for 15 years or so. I'm not afraid to agree with what scripture says publicly. I am also extremely grateful for what He has done for me. I think that qualifies me as someone who loves God.

I don't really "use" thought. I am considered to be an extremely thoughtful, insightful, and intelligent man by most who know me, though. Anyone who knows me would never even conceive of thinking of me as a "lemming", as you say. Surely, though, we can discuss intelligently without resorting to name calling?

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

JonJack,
I appreciate this discourse and your respectful, intelligent manner in advancing your points.

I would like to respond to a few of your points with a differing point of view, and will do so tomorrow, as my fatigue is starting to catch up with me.

'Till then...

 

[Delta]

"As long as a person is doing whatever they are doing, whether it is bad, wrong, right, good, nice or just plain mean, conviction is the key to peace."

are you serious? "GOOD INTENTIONS" are worthless dontcha think? the issue is the INEFFABLE R E A L I T Y. is it good or bad?

lot of people have been killed throughout history because people believed sincerely, bad stuff.

delta

 

[Ghengis Kahn]

Interesting thing before I hit the sack tonight...

We had a tremendous windstorm today where I live, and power was knocked out. I decided to drive up to a quaint little village that I frequent right on the edge of the Hudson River.

I sat at the water's edge, looking up at the mountains looming over the water, and started praying about all sorts of things that are going on in my life.

One thing that I brought up to God was the very subject of this thread. I talked about it quite at length and therefore was quite suprised to see myself immersed in this discussion.

No special meaning, just interesting...