Nasty situation

[Die Hard]

Met girl through Tinder, exchanged messages for 2 days, got her number etc. She showed good interest, replied quickly and kept initiating conversations through Whatsapp.

Talked a bit about my job, her education etc. But I kept conversation light and playful, applied ****y and funny, some light sexual innuendo.

So she remarks a few times that I'm being slick and smooth. For example, we spoke about me being good at salsa dancing while she is a beginner, so I told her she should create some space in her room and I would soon come over to her place and give her a private lesson :wink:

So she asks me if I'm always this Slick with girls. I tell her it depends on the girl, the more interesting the girl the slicker I become :wink:

Conversation was light and playful at this moment, she added smileys and "haha's" in her messages and all, we were just having small talk.

So then..

Her: "should be the other way around, don't ya think?"
Me: "what do you mean?"
Her: "a guy should be very sweet to a girl he really likes and be slick to a girl that he just wants to bang."
Me: "yeah well, first she needs to show that she's worth it, then I'll be sweet to her"
Her: "well, in that case: Good luck! With that attitude you're gonna get nowhere. I'm gonna delete you right now."
Me: "Haha, a bit sensitive aren't we? But hey, your choice. Bye..."

No reply from her anymore. Half a day later I sent her a message, told her I had the impression she was a good girl who's worth more than just having sex with. But she apparently didn't believe so herself since she was so quick to eject...

She responded. Told me she misinterpreted my message and I misinterpreted hers. She says that I came across very arrogant saying a girl needs to prove she's worth it for me to be sweet to her. She said she could easily prove herself but she would never play along with that game.

I didn't respond, yet.... I don't know whether I should.

I guess I should blame myself for getting into this drama bullsh!t situation with her, I kinda dug myself a hole. We're basically overtly negotiating the relationship, and we haven't even met yet. Very bad situation...

Anyway, NEXTING is easy, I got other plates and she's nothing special. But my question is, how would you guys try to salvage this situation? I feel I can smooth things over with her and get her to meet up with me after all, but I fear she will make me work very hard to access her pvssy after this...

Thoughts?

 

[Married Buried]

Are the winks a good idea? Maybe you should just say what you say without the winks.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

You can never answer a girls question straight away like this. Telling her she needs to prove herself to be treated properly or "sweetly" is overtly communicating what she should already know: women need to earn levels of trust/positive reinforcement/"sweetness." When you tell her this fact straight away it's basically giving her an ultimatum. A great quote from Dwight D. Eisenhower: "Motivation is the art of getting people to do what you want them to do because they want to do it." Telling someone how to do things never works.

How to proceed? Well I think you can move forward in a couple directions.
1.) Next. She seems pretty low class. Telling you she's going to delete you only to have you text her back in a day or two gives her a lot of the power. In order to get it back...
2.) Wait. Give her some time to wonder if you're going to text her. If she had any interest in you at all the fact that you aren't texting her back should create some chaos in that little hamster. She knows you're on Tinder so let that work a little bit in your advantage.
3.) Text her some c0cky/funny message. "So I went to the store today and saw someone I really liked. I bought her flowers and chocolates and told her I loved her. It was really sweet but didn't work! Where did I go wrong?" Something stupid I dunno I literally just came up with that on the spot. It's lengthy which could be a bit worrisome but whatever, I'm sure you can come up with something.

Personally, I would combine 2 and 3. Give her some time and let her wonder a bit. Then out of the blue, BAM a ****y/funny text subtly making fun of her chick logic. If she has any interest she'll play along. If not, NEXT. Actually, the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to just next. She sounds entitled.

^^^^This is a great response. I recently joined another forum and a guy was talking about Autonomy- freedom from external control or influence; independence. And how it applies to women. This is also one of Stephen Covey's main concepts he talks about in his book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People."

OP, it seems you've figured how it went wrong here. She threw out some $hit tests, you pushed back, but it turned out to be too much too soon, because of this she ended up with her back against the wall. So, as it seems, you guys came to a stale mate. Then you threw her some rope, she took it, but is wondering if she should climb aboard. I think she wants to, and she will, so... I'd pull her in.

You both proved your worth here. I think this one should be good to go. Yes, she may make you work a little bit, but I think the boundaries are set here, she knows she can't push you too much.

I'd give her a phone call, smooth a few things out, set up a meet and greet. At this point, the texting is just leaving room for more confusion and/or misinterpreted texts. A phone call might get you guys back on track.

 

[Slickster]

This should not be too difficult.

Apologize for the misunderstanding and explain that you are a bit of a jokester who likes sarcasm. Obviously it wasn't coming thru properly via text and suggest a meeting so she can see how fun you are in real life.

 

[Valentino14]

All of this concern over an online chick? she dangled the bait and you went for it. she got you. I bet this girl has a bunch of other dudes she's talking to right now. chick sounds rude saying she's going to delete you. don't deal with her crap. she has the higher value. go after some new girls without the bad attitude.

 

[VladPatton]

She has morals and standards on the #1 app for bang ups! Goddamn, these women wanna justify everything and anything. Don't even bother, she's looking for a chump. Should of never progressed after the first and last "bye!" And yeah, she's got other suckers she's talking to gah-ron-teed!

 

[Outlaw_]

Yep OP. Most people are pointing to NEXT. I've done what you are trying to do before & it puts you in a weak position in her eyes & she will just next you after some mild interactions.

 

[Die Hard]

Long story but I got her to back down and we're now on good terms again. All WITHOUT surrendering the frame to her...

Set up a meet with her for next week, we'll see how it plays out. If things go well, I'll write down an analysis of how I played this one. If things don't work out, I'll spare you the details...

 

[MOTU]

Fill us in either way, sometimes failure is a better teacher than success.

 

[Die Hard]

Boy, do I have something to fill you in about, haha!

So after this:

Half a day later I sent her a message, told her I had the impression she was a good girl who's worth more than just having sex with. But she apparently didn't believe so herself since she was so quick to eject...

She responded. Told me she misinterpreted my message and I misinterpreted hers. She says that I came across very arrogant saying a girl needs to prove she's worth it for me to be sweet to her. She said she could easily prove herself but she would never play along with that game.

I sent her a message back in which I totally didn't reply to the content of her last message at all. I simply asked her whether she went out in this and that place often, nothing else...

She just responded to my question and made no attempt to raise the subject anymore. We had a nice conversation and had fun, eventually ending in me asking her to go out with me on Sunday (today).

No contact in the meanwhile, only yesterday (just to confirm that the meet was still on).


So today we went out, had drinks etc. It was a very nice date, we were very into each other, lots of smiles, lots of joking around, good kino, good conversation... So at one point we decided to leave the bar and find another one. This was already the second bar we visited and I had paid for drinks at the first bar... So when we were about to get up and leave, I asked her: "We haven't paid for the drinks here yet, have we?" She said no we didn't... We looked at each other briefly, both trying to sense if the other person was gonna take initiative to pay. I took my wallet out of my pocket, signalling that I was about to pay but I said to her with a smile: "Next round is on you, okay?"

She didn't answer directly, there was a moment of silence and she seemed hesitant about how to respond... I looked at her, smiled and half jokingly said: "What, you got no money on you?"

She responded: "No, I got money but I think it's the man's job to pay for drinks." I lol'd and told her "Sure, I'll pay but then the next one is on you, alright?"

She responded: "Okay, I'm not gonna negotiate about this... I'll pay right now and then I'll go home straight away"

She got up and walked to the bar, paid the guy and came back. We both said nothing, just put our jackets on and walked outside. She turned to me and said: "Well, I really enjoyed this night with you but I guess we'll never meet again..." I lol'd and asked her if she was serious. She said yes but I could sense that she wasn't happy to say goodbye like this. I calmly told her: "Let's walk a little together..." and she agreed.

Me: "Don't you think you are being a little rigid here, deciding to leave so abruptly without even talking about anything?"
Her: "I told you how I think about it and when you challenged that, you went to far"
Me: "Lol, so I can't erven express my opinion? You think you can just tell me your opinion and the moment I respond and present my opinion, you find that disrespectful??"
Her: "I just don't like the way you responded and when a guy acts like that, I'm out."

At that point I stopped walking and she slowly walked on. I told her: "Well, I really enjoyed the night. Bye!"

Then I just walked in opposite direction without looking back and went home, lol.


Can you fvcking believe the attitude of this bytch?!?!?!?! And the funny thing is, there was no sign of this AT ALL in her behvaior leading up to this moment. We were having a great night and she wasn't showing signs of a need to be dominant over me or whatever. She was very laidback and friendly to me all night. Choosing which bar to go, what chair to sit or whatever, it was all cool. No need to control the conversations when we were chatting throughout the night, nothing. I'm going through it in my head and I seriosuly don't see any other sign of this entitlement behavior anywhere during the night. It was just BAM! out of nowhere she tells me she is gonna pay and then go home.

Why do I always attract psycho bytches like this?:crazy:


When I got home, I saw her online on Whatsapp. I couldn't control myself and sent her a message:

"Good luck finding yourself a loser who worships you, haha. When you're ready for a real man, you know where to find me :kiss-wink smiley:"

She was quick to respond:

"Oh, don't be ridiculous. You just don't understand how things work."

I didn't respond to that and will just stay silent from here on... I must admit, though, I have have a strong urge to tell her: "Put me together in a bedroom with you and I'll show you how things work..."

 

[backbreaker]

SHE IS ****ING RIGHT . i'm ****ing angry beucase you could have ****ed this broad and you went stupid and blew it.

you got dumped for the stupidst "dj" reason of all. the pay for drinks bit

my wife is sitting next to me right now. i'm going to ask her what she thinks about men paying for drinks. millie what do you think about guys not paying for drinks on the irst date

mrs backbreaker "men should pay for a woman's drinks"

interesting lol. can you expand on this profound logic?

"if a guy doesn't buy my drink he probably doesn't like me very much. and it's just not polite"


but even worse, YOU INSISTED SHE PAY FOR HER OWN DRINKS.


NAME ONE TIME in the history of dating that a guy has insisted on a woman payhing for her own drinks and she said okay i will pay for my own drink and it work out fine.


even if you are using women paying for their own drinks as screening you're doing it wrong. you assume you are paying for unless she insists otherwise. you don't say 'look woman you're paying for your own drink" what type of bull**** is that.


but above all that, there is nothing romanic, sexy about a woman pulling out her wallet and paying for her own drink. then you go all ****ing emo when she rejects you.

you're ****ing 33 years old and you are emailing chicks.. on tinder i might add

"Good luck finding yourself a loser who worships you, haha. When you're ready for a real man, you know where to find me :kiss-wink smiley:"

who the **** says **** like that to women? you're just as bad as she is. you want o talk about how bad women are and you are acting like a spoiled child who got his toy taken away. there's nothing about your behavior that is masculine, reedming or enticing to a woman.



if you can't ****ing avoid to pay for drinks don't go out. who the **** counts how many different bars you go to you are the one that initiated the date.

if a woman asks me tpo go out i expect her to pay her way. if i ask for a woman's time her time is on me. i'm paying for it

so yeah, the cvnt is right. you don't know how it works. you ask for her time, you are courting her and you don't have the ****ing deceny to pay for the woman's drink? but you are all alpha and **** lol beucase you are on tinder and your text game is soooo tight.


this is what this site is turning men into. tinder using, no game having dudes that are bitter at women becuase they don't have game.


you had this woman. you had her. you had her dead to rights and you out thought yourself out of some *****.


backbreaker's first rule of dating: never ever case friction on a date. rather it be talking about religion or politics, or paying for an expensive dinner or paying for drinks when you dont' want to do. do it and smile. if you don't like her behavior, at the end of hte night just dont' talk to her again.

but never, ever, "make a stand" on **** on a date. at the end of the date you think about the good and hte bad and you make an overall judgement. what if after the 3rd place you had to go to, she takes you in the back of your car and gives you the best blow job of your life lol? but you never got that far because you ruined it by "making a stand" stop being so short sighted.


good god. it was right there. and she's on tinder so i mean, its' not like ****ing was that far away lol. all you had to do was basically make it through the date and you couldn't even do that. you literlly ****ed yourself out of ****ing

 

[Married Buried]

I agree this shouldn't have happened. This was an internet pickup, and if your gut was telling you sex was in the near future by all means pay. I always paid on these types of things 100% and I had alot of first meet lays back to my place. It's amazing how many chics will come back to your place on the first date if you make it seem like no big deal. Just say "follow me back to my place for a movie" and they do.

The only time I tried to make her pay was if I felt she was using me or something, and that only happened once, and then I tried to make her pay and never heard from her again.

One time I blew it and started talking about politics on a first date and we were polar opposites and I blew that one. Die Hard had to learn the hard way on this one, she threw her p/ssy up into the air and he swing and missed. Just in time for baseball season. It's easier to just pay. Are you broke or something? Why make a big deal out of it.

Did you ask her out or did she ask you? If you ask her out it's common courtesy to pay. If she asked you, THEN she pays.

I mean it was the FIRST DATE. Just pay! It's not like you have been out 5 times and you are always footing the bill.

 

[amoka]

At times, I think some people here take things a little too serious. If you invite the lady for a drink, be prepare the cover the costs if you can afford it. If you can't afford it, take her for a walk. There is nothing wrong with paying for drinks on the first date as long as you don't act like a crown there say, "you can get whatever you want. I'll pay for it".

 

[dasein]

my wife is sitting next to me right now. i'm going to ask her what she thinks about men paying for drinks. millie what do you think about guys not paying for drinks on the irst date

I see, does your wife have lots of experience dating and banging women? No? Well then why listen to her advice?

Of course privileged women today are going to cling to the "he pays" double standard, those who do are completely self-absorbed and it's a great test of what not to get involved with other than casually sexually. Thankfully more and more quality are getting away from this and the remainder are almost always dregs.

OP, you should have said "psych!" paid, and then used every trick in the book, lies, guilt, manipulation, everything that honorable DJs don't normally do to stick it in this girl and then call once to say, "women who don't pay their share aren't worth my time, but thanks for the f-ck."

I used to have a more laid back position on this, but the number of women out there who still cling to this raw money grab finally got to me. Have also experienced it firsthand in several ways over the years and those women turned out bad news.

Oh, and never ever take dating advice of any kind from a woman.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

You've got a stubborn one here Diehard, that's all it is. She's got principles, ingrained from somewhere, probably her parents. And she sticks to them. She likes you, but like how things went in your OP, she's fighting to give in.

Just play it cool man, let the dust settle. I wouldn't send her anymore messages for the time being, the only thing I kind of cringed at was when you sent that follow up message on Whatsapp, I'm surprised she responded so coolly (that's actually impressive). She was reeling off of the date just as you were, remember that. You guys were on that roller coaster together. You might want to give this one another shot if you can.

Give it a day or two, then reach out. Your frame is what's keeping you in this thing. She's attracted to it, however, what she's learned is keeping her from giving into it. Think you may need to compromise....but just a bit...

 

[Die Hard]

This is something I just need to go through at the moment. I'm being stubborn and uncompromising with all women lately, they must co-operate and do things my way or they can fvck off.

I know that this attitude is undermining my chances to smash some pvssy, but I need to go through this. See, I've become too outcome dependent with girls in general. I have become so focused on being succesful with women, like I can't feel good about myself if I don't become the guy who fvcks women left and right, like my life has no worth if I don't become that guy, like I need the validation soooo badly.

And this outcome dependency is exactly why I can't succeed with women. I am too eager to achieve succes with them! This prevents me from playing it cool, I just can't hold my own while dealing with women, can't pass their sh!t tests, can't keep the frame, can't seduce them properly. I lose control over myself because I'm too outcome dependent.

So what I'm going through now, is a phase where I just burn through plates at an incredible pace. I'm having text conversations with several girls at the same time all day long, I'm kiss closing some girl at a party that same night and I'm going on a date with another girl the next day. Girls here, girls there, girls everywhere. And I get into conflicts with all of them quickly after I get to know them, coz I just want them to submit to me and spread their legs without putting up resistance. Of course they put up resistance and when they notice how eager I am, they start playing around with me and make me chase them. So I start pressing and pushing them until things blow up and I just NEXT them.

I'm fvcking crazy, lol. But I don't care! Fvck them all!! They're all fvcking cvnts anyway... I want to call them names, I want to slap them in the face, I want to disrespect them, I want to show them that I don't give a goddamn about their opinions, I want to tell them they look like sh!t, I want to spit in their faces, I want to show them that they're worth NOTHING!

*takes a deep breathe and calms down* Of course, I don't really do the above things. But this is the kind of attitude they evoke inside of me throughout the last few weeks where I am going through all these experiences with different girls. And that's exactly the attitude I need...

See, when I was on the date with "you need to pay my drinks" girl last night, a guy I knew came up to me. He asked me who the girl was, I explained that this was a first date etc. Then somewhere during our conversation he remarked something along the lines of: "I saw you really doing your best at having conversation with her earlier. You don't need to do that, you're the sexiest guy in this place..."
This is telling... If he could see this, then surely SHE had noticed it. I am too eager, too desperate to succeed...

But because of all the crashing and burning I'm going through right now, there's a kind of anger coming out. The girl really pissed me off last night and today I have been feeling like: "Fvck you! I don't need you, go find someone else to pay your drinks! You didn't even have tits, you were fvcking flat chested and your azz was too big! So fvck youuuuuuuu!!! I don't need you, I don't need your pvssy, I don't need your entitled bullshyt behavior!"

See, this is exactly the type of attitude I need right now in order to compensate the outcome dependent "I need to succeed with women at all cost" attitude that's become so dominant in me. The crashing and burning I've been going through the last few weeks, it's lighting up a fire under my azz and making me realize that I DON'T need women to feel good about myself, that I DON'T need to succeed with women in order to feel that my life has worth.

So yes, I might be wasting a lot of chances at pvssy here. I could've fvcked many of these girls I met during the last few weeks if I played things right. But I am not ABLE to play things right yet, I don't have the right mindset yet, I lack the patience, I am too outcome dependent. So I need to go through this phase of turmoil and conflict with all these women right now, it is balancing things out in my head.

Eventually, I'll come to rest and things will sort of align inside of me. From that point on, I'll be succesful with women. Not because I NEED to be succesful with them but just because it will be a natural result of who I am...

I've been through all this before but my inner process came at a halt when I met the BPD ex in summer of 2012. I was a wreck after her and feel like the process of inner development I had been going through LEADING UP TO HER, is the same process I have been going through AFTER HER. The point I'm at now...I've been there before, I know what I'm doing. I will achieve a level of greatness again that I've experienced before. Only this time, I'll STAY THERE, instead of allowing some BPD nutcase to break it all down...

 

[Married Buried]

Just relax on the date and don't create unnecessary drama. It's not rocket science.

 

[zekko]

I think Mystery started all that "Never pay for a woman's drinks - flip the script on her and make her pay for yours" business. That was in the context of the cold approach, however, whereas this was a date. But you could certainly read about game and get the impression that only betas would ever spend money on women.

I don't really drink anymore, but I usually make more money than the women I know so who pays isn't really an issue with me. Sometimes I have my girl pay for dinner or whatever, but that's a LTR.

As for Die Hard's situation, all he did was lose out on a little sex. There's no tragedy here. Guys here in general put too much value on the almighty pvssy and seem to be willing to do anything to get it. Isn't the whole idea of not being outcome dependent to free yourself from all that?

Although I don't personally really care about the whole "who pays for what" issue, I respect that Die Hard stuck to his convictions about it. Sounds like he has plenty of other abundance to fall back on. And if he's going out as much as it sounds, he could probably stand to save a few bucks here and there. That's probably what prompted Mystery (or his peers) to start balking at the "buy her drinks" thing in the first place - they were going out so much they would spend themselves broke if they bought all the girls drinks. Although they would probably claim it was because they wanted to stand out from the other guys.

 

[backbreaker]

it's not the fact that he stuck to the issue... there are issues that I stick to when I was screening women. I don't / will not date a woman who smokes. period. i don't care how hot she is i hate cig smoke.

The point is, he stuck to a point that serves no purpose. It's like saying I won't date women who don't have samsung galexy phones lol. you are on a date, with a woman you met on tinder, the primary objective is to get laid ovbiously, you can't go on TINDER and then pretend when you ge ton a date, that you don't want to get laid lol. the point is to get laid as quicky / efficently as possible. not to make it harder for yourself


I think that's why I hate social networking sites / dating sites. It takes all assumption out of it. You can't play aloof / like you just want to have fun when we're exchaing **** pics on tinder lol

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

^Yeah, but he stuck to his principles, just like she did. That's the point. How much can he give in before she loses respect for him. It's not about getting laid, it's about pandering to the pu$$y. There is a fine line, and a gray area though. Did he play this one correctly, well, who knows.

Who's to say that if he did pay, she would have went home with him and jumped on his jock? Maybe, instead, she would have thought: "this guy's paying for everything because he just wants to get into my pants, he's a chump"

Hind sight's usually 20/20, but I don't think it is here.

Chick's these days are all over the place.