Myth of the old man...by 20 somethings?

[The Bat]

I've started to notice this more and more among my peers (who are in early-mid 20s) that they are starting to feel "old". At first, I thought they were just joking around but it seems that they actually believe that they are getting "old".

For example, one friend thinks that he needs to party as much as he can now because by the time he is 30, he will have to settle down and won't be able to go out for the fear of being the "creepy old dude" in the bar/club scene. Even when we go to a college party hosted by one of our friends (he is in grad school), this friend thinks he is too "old" for the college party where most people are in their early 20s. I told him that's a ridiculous way to look at it because he doesn't look like an old man nor does he act like one. But he does think like an old man (no offense older DJs).

Another friend believes in "growing up" and doing "adult" things like buying a house, settling down with his girlfriend, going to "sophisticated" lounges, and talking about "adult" stuff like politics, business, and groceries. Now all of these things by themselves aren't bad. But in the context of my friend, his age (mid 20s), and the fact that he has just started his career makes all these things look like he just wants to do all of these things because he is under some misguided belief that this is what adults do. I told him that we're still young and we don't have to try and "grow up" or "be something that we aren't yet".

A third friend (mid 20s) thinks that he has hit his prime and from here on out, it's just work, bills, possible wife, and more work. According to him, his prime was when he partied 4 days out of the week, went on vacations all the time, had money to spend on food/beer/women/cars, and not having any real responsibilities. He is very afraid of being bald, getting fat, not having a wife, and working a $hit job.

Sometimes I don't even know what to say to these guys. A part of me says to explain in-depth about how they have just begun their lives as Men and how they are in that uncomfortable zone of leaving behind their childhood and entering manhood. But another part of me says their egos are so tight that they will refuse to listen to any type of reason.

Have you guys noticed this old man myth propping up amongst guys in their 20s?

Every now and then we get a poster on here with this same issue but they are usually in their mid-late 30s and 40s. But I'm baffled that I'm physically surrounded by young guys who feel the need to settle down, get a nice job, and stop having fun simply because that's what society/women wants from them.

 

[speed dawg]

You can do whatever you want as you get older. I personally am not interested in doing the things I did when I was in college. Spring break binge drinking doesn't appeal to me like it used.

Relevant people acquire responsibility and maturity as they grow older. You can do this at your own pace. To me, marriage/kids don't play into this equation. I have plenty of fun at my age now. I have noticed my body can't handle certain things like it used to, but that's because I neglected certain things.

 

[ketostix]

They are sensing pressure from the age social convention. A lot of guys in their early and mid-20's have used the "creepy older guy" line to girls to c0ckblock their competition, and they are realizing if they're going to play the age social convention game then they're going to have it applied to them as they age as well. They have simply fully accepted the social convention. It's kind of like how AFCs accept and enforce all sorts of feminist social conventions.

 

[speed dawg]

A lot of guys in their early and mid-20's have used the "creepy older guy" line to girls to c0ckblock their competition

This is where they lose me. Why the fvck is any man competing.

 

[ketostix]

This is where they lose me. Why the fvck is any man competing.

Well in a sense all men are competing with other men at least passively. That's the nature of the situation (the high demand for desirable pvssy outstrips available supply). But I totally agree with you about men competing actively against one another usually doesn't benefit them. Competing in this sense is really just being jealous and enganging in conflict more than it's about competing. It's another example of men adopting feminine mindsets and tactics. Instead of gossiping and acting jealous and caty, these guys should just go for what they want, ignore their "competition" as long as another guy isn't disrespecting them or stepping on their toes.

I've hung out with a lot of guys and honestly most of them act like jealous women.

 

[Luthor Rex]

I guess it all depends on what you think "being grown up" means.

As I've gotten older my personal strength has increased, I'm able to accomplish more, I have more confidence in my own abilities, and even though I am doing more difficult things than when I was younger I really think that life is getting easier the older I get.

The people who wasted their younger days doing things like mindless partying to the exclusion of everything else are the ones who have the problems with getting older. They never took the time to build the inner person, the "character" of who is inside. So when they reach their 30's or 40's they are still children trapped inside adult bodies.

 

[Colossus]

"Old" is relative. Mostly.

85 is old no matter who you are, lol. But I think guys just feel like they SHOULD be doing 'adult' things as they approach 30; like moving up in a career, buying property, investing, marrying, etc.

I think there is a lot of pressure on men to be successful, much as there is pressure on women to look beautiful. After all, a man in today's world is primarily defined by his work. I'm not saying it's right, but you kind of are what you do.

Personally, like speed dawg, partying like a college student does not appeal to me. Nor do I want to hang around that crowd. Association brings assimilation. What does appeal to me is getting into the field I want and making money; so I can DO the things I want. Marriage does not appeal to me now, nor does "settling down". Buying property does, because property has value, and I think as a grown man I should eventually own land. Just me.

I know guys in their mid-thirties and 40's who are not married and live pretty cool lives. I really think where a lot of guys go wrong and fall into boring adulthood is getting married because it's "the next step". They really dont even want to be married, they are either passively shamed into it or they are afraid of the alternative.

 

[mikeraw]

I have the opposite problem. I get more immature as I get older! Hahah binge drinking? Yup. Getting in to work late? You betcha. Make ridiculous purchases? Now that I can afford better toys, hell yeah... Go to clubs and teach kids how the party... oh man...

I guess it helps that I hang out with a group of thirty-somethings that act the same way I do. We're all obviously men, all of us are professionals, but we act care-free and still retain some childish charm... and, at least for me, it has worked wonders with women of all ages in the past couple of years.

 

[MaradonaOfSeduction]

I see those kinds of behaviours in some of my friends too. They don't want to go out partying because they think they're too old, or they can't really take these heavy nights anymore. They think that their lives ended along with college. I'm almost 22 and most of my friends are in their early 20's, btw.
Honestly, i don't think i'm getting older. I've changed, yeah, and some of the stupid **** i used to do when i was 18 has no appeal to me anymore, but I still enjoy partying as much as i did before. It's a shame that my friends don't think the same way.

 

[PeeGee]

There's this really old dude (60+) who hangs out at the same club I take my girl.

He's there almost all the time and dances with girls and generally has a great time. I haven't paid enough attention to know if he has a wife or whatever, but if he can do it, you should be fine.

I'm almost 30 years old and I still like to club. It's all about your attitude.

 

[Jitterbug]

About 3 or 4 years ago, I had that stupid mindset as well. Ironically, my old man knocked it out of my head. Now I see the same among many 20-something guys in my social circle. They extend that to shaming other guys of the same age who don't "conform" to that mindset. They would give me the sh!t when I date girls 21 y.o or younger, and I'm only 26! The funny thing is, most of those guys are still living at home with mummy and daddy, some still at uni, some barely out of it and not working, while I moved out at 18, now have my own place, support my retired mother and have a good job with a few staff under me. They may think old (I'd call that lifeless) but they are far from being mature and responsible.

 

[Ballie]

But I'm baffled that I'm physically surrounded by young guys who feel the need to settle down, get a nice job, and stop having fun simply because that's what society/women wants from them.

That is the problem - that is what society and the woman you are involved with wants. I did the whole "Matrix" scene. Big house with swimming pool, kids, dogs, exectra and became a morgage slave a typical wussy AFC.

Well, I got dumped and lost half my hard earned cash - she made sure that she spend hers on herself off course. Its a trap guys! a cage to enslave you.

Now I am happily divorced and having a fun time spending my money on myself and my GF who tags on for the ride.

As Pook says "Be what ever you want to be" and damn the rest.

 

[The Forms]

A few weeks ago I was at a college party, and I definitely felt out of place. I'm at the point where I just realized none of the people who were in college when I was in college are still in college.

Truth be told, high school and college can easily extend a person's adolescence about 7 or 8 (or more) years. If you were Amish, or living in some other niche society, like a tribal society, by the time you were 15 you would pretty much act like an adult. Even in American society, the term "teenager" didn't exist until the 1950's. The idea that a person should spend years of their life transitioning from childhood to adulthood is a relatively new invention.

Maturity comes from having to deal with challenging life situations (especially if you have to deal with them on your own). Being that I'm firmly out of college and taking care of myself completely, it makes it hard for me to connect with people at a college party full of kids whose parents still take care of them. I don't look down on them for being dependent, but dependency impedes maturity. Independence quickens it.

And the truth is, we learn how to act based on watching how our peers act. Which ties back around to the lengthening of adolescence. I read an article a few months back about this whole "we learn how to act based on our peers" thing. The reason that a kid who lives in a tribal society acts like an adult by the time he's 13 or so is because that's typically when he "becomes a man," and spends most of his time with the men of the tribe. Spending all this time with the men of the tribe, he learns how to act like a man by picking up their attitudes and beliefs (their conception of "The Good Life.")

A 13 year old boy in America doesn't spend much time at all around men. He spends 40+ hours a week around other 13 year old kids. Which amounts to the blind leading the blind. His father, no matter how well intentioned, can't compete with that (a father has influence, obviously, but not as much influence as the boy's friends and peers). The sheer amount of time a 13 year old spends around other 13 year olds means that these kids are where he's going to take most of his cues as to what the Good Life is.

And this goes on well through college (especially for college kids whose parents give them enough money so they don't have to work in school). It's still largely the blind leading the blind, in terms of your conception of the Good Life.

So the reason lots of the guys you knew in college decide that they want mortgages and wives after they start working is because they are spending lots of time with grown men (likely, the first time they've ever spent this much time with men older than themselves), and they take cues from these men as to their conception of the Good Life.

And, to the OP, part of the reason a lot of the guys you know are struggling (and joking about being "the old guy at the club") is because they're feeling out these cues and defining their new conceptions of the Good Life. They're transitioning from the old (decidedly more fun) conception where chasing pleasure is given priority, to the new (more traditional, and more boring) conception of the Good Life, where security and stability are given priority.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I could cut & paste The Myth of the Lonely Old Man from any number of threads - suffice it to say that it's the feminized version of the Old Maid Myth for women - however, I think what's at issue is how guys internalize it. Just to cast a new light on this, I'm going to suggest that most AFCs, most feminized, conditioned males, LIKE and embrace the lonely old man myth because it is a Buffer against potential rejection.

Does that sound like a stretch? It shouldn't. When used from a feminized perspective this myth most certainly a 'shaming' social convention with the latent function of getting men to commit to a feminine frame - "you better change yourself soon, or your soulmate might pass you by and you'll be lonely and desolate in your old age". That's the feminized use of the myth, however, the internalized AFC use of the myth is a Buffer. This then becomes his rationale for settling for a substandard LTR or marriage.

It's really a triple whammy. There is the feminine reinforced fear of solitude. Then, the self-reinforced expectation of maturity or "doing the right thing". And finally the use of it as a convenient retreat from rejection or potential rejection; and this is what I'm getting at when I refer to it as a Buffer.

Case example: I have a friend who is trapped in a passionless marriage with a woman, who's set the frame from day one. He'd like to come off as dominant with his male friends, but it's clear to most of our friends that his wife runs the marriage framing. Prior to meeting this girl our friend Sean was a serial monogamist branch swinger. The LTR girl he'd been with prior to her ran the show in much the same way for almost 5 years. When he was finally freeing himself from her (with my own help), he started to see the value of being single and independent and began dating non-exclusively for about a 3 month period. After meeting his now wife he gradually tried to find suitable ways to withdraw and become exclusive. Sean began searching for all kinds of rationale to effect this - and settled on the myth of the lonely old man.

His story was the classic one where a guy shakes off his old ways of thinking about women and dating, and almost unplugs from the Matrix, but fails to kill his inner AFC and slides back into his old AFC mentality once he'd secured another 'soulmate'. Here was a guy who'd spent more than half of his 20s in a miserable LTR who managed to briefly unplug for about 3 months before latching onto another ONEitis. Yet his reasoning was "I'm tired of the dating games. I need to settle down. I don't want to be lonely when I'm 60." This from a guy who'd only ever been single for 3 months of his life. It was his Buffer. Of course now he's resentful and pensive about his marriage and lives life vicariously through his single friends, while at the same time self-righteously scolds them for still being single.

This is where these 20 y.o.s you describe are now. Their Buffer against rejection is hiding in (settling for) relationships they're told they must constantly work to perfect, because of the fear of potential rejection. In fact, they're pre-set in this idea while still single - they see it as a valid reason and a desirable goal; get married quick, before it's too late. What's worse is that the rationale is unassailable. The foundation of the myth is associated with maturity, and who's going to tell you not to be more mature? This is how we get the Peter Pan social convention women like to trot out; "He'll never grow up!" The problem is that this lack of maturity is only paired with a Man's willingness to commit or not to commit to their long term provisioning goals.

 

[Splendidostring]

Interesting topic

All my friends have also reached this point where they just don't want to get out partying anymore. They spend more time working and earning money then anything else.

If you ask me, I can't relate to that. I still feel the urge to get drunk, laughing at drunks, talking with random people and hooking with chicks.

I'va actually been thinking about this for the past week. 1 one of my friend is working his ass off, earning money. I respect that but it's just not a life for me. So what if you got money? So what if you get a house? Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have a house someday and more money but I'm not interested in giving my whole life into this "let's just work and get more money attitude". There's ought to be more to life then that. That is not what I have in mind

...now whenever I talk to this friend, all he talks about is getting more money so he can buy stuff, I just don't care about that. As I get older, I still want to keep a joyful mind and not get involved too much into such serious and boring matters. When I'll lay on my dead bed, I know I won't recall moments when I was working my ass off or moments when I had money, because I never cared for that.

Thoughts?

 

[ketostix]

The problem is really one of societal mores and conventions. Who defines mores and social conventions in regard to relations between males and females? Primarily women do. Whether this is because men have allowed women to usurp this authority to define what is acceptable or not is a seperate issue, but I'd say that's what feminism is-female usurptation of society's conventions.

Most of the guys on here are pretty clued in to how things really are and how they should be, so we don't internalize feminist conventions and try to live in a manner that is in their best interest. The problem is we are a small minority preaching to the choir. Most guys have fully embraced feminist conventions. So what you have is the majority of guys and of course women following and enforcing social conventions that are obstensibly to the benefit of women (or at least what women demand) and definitely to the detriment of men. Some or maybe a few men will be able to buck societal convention but many will not be able to. It's actually not an easy thing to do to go against the majority and the predominant social convention.

The truth is women are opportunist. They want men that are goodlooking and sexually vitle and they want men for their money. When you have so many men willing to hand women the whole 9 yards for little in return it makes it harder for a guy to enforce a level playing feild. Well that's how I see the problem. Some guys can individually buck social conventions, but I think the real answer is men are going to have to form solidarity to damp down these feminist social conventions.

 

[Werman]

I'm 31. My house is as close to campus as Luke Wilson's was in Old School. I work hard at my job as an engineer all week to make some serious $$$. On the weekends, I walk across the street and hang out at a lot of the bars across from campus. I party with whatever hot girls I meet there, and I have a much nicer place to take them afterwards than the nasty little hole in the wall apartment that I had with 2 other guys when I was 21. Thanks to rededicating myself to working out, I look every bit as fit as I was when I was 21. Back then, all I could afford was an old beat up Buick. Now I have a BMW. The experiences I've had over the last 10 years have made me a much deeper and more interesting person than I was when I was 21, and women can see it just from the look in my eyes. If some dude tries to shame me with the creepy old guy schtick, I'll just grin, go dance with whatever hottie has caught my attention, and usually wind up getting her back to my place, while that dude will either strike out, or nail whatever is left behind at closing time in a pool of vomit behind the frat house.

I wouldn't even think about trading 31 for 21.

 

[The Bat]

Great responses.

Keto Funny you mention the c0ckblocking dilemma because guys at bars have tried AMOGing me that way. I look much older than what I actually am so people think I'm in my late 20s/early 30s. And of course when younger guys try to play on this assumption, it backfires on them when I show them that I'm just about their age AND I'm much less inclined to make judgments about others. You know how girls eat that $hit up...

Joke is on them though because even for a guy who looks like he might be in his late 20s, I still manage to pull off more tail in a month than they can in a year.

Colossus Yeah I agree with you that there are probably guys like you who aren't into the nightlife and are more driven towards their career. But the guys I mentioned in the OP aren't driven towards their career. They are very much into the nightlife/partying scene. But they are attempting to identify with societal standards about what, supposedly, makes a Man. They are compromising their current identity to take on one that is already pre-made for them. See what I mean? They aren't saying, "I want a nice job because I'm skilled and I like what I'm doing." They are saying, "I need a nice job because I want money to buy some fancy things that will make me look like I have a nice job and money."

It all comes back to them working to please others and to show others that they are living a good life. I'm not saying that it's not a bad thing to have a nice job and live comfortably. But that should be a side effect of Man's purpose in life. Those things shouldn't be goals. These guys think that adulthood mostly comprises of working a job that you probably find boring and earning a paycheck which will let you buy things that aren't so boring. Think Fight Club.

mikeraw I'm somewhat like that. I have still retained my child-like charm from college/frat years. But if I need to be professional, then you would not even suspect that I'm a party guy. My plates have told me this that one thing they found attractive about me was my child-like charms that I managed to retain even though I'm "older" now (I'm not old...mid-20s). I think women, as they hit mid-20s, end up being surrounded by all these clueless guys in their 20s who think they need to act like they are 40. Which, in the guys' minds, means being serious and appear more stable while they lose their sense of fun (and humor for some reason). Guys like you and me end up being rare commodities because it takes a strong, positive attitude to maintain a professional (and successful) side and a party side.

PeeGee I wonder if your girl or people you know who've seen the old dude ever think of him as the "creepy old dude". I know a guy like that too but he is fvcking obnoxious, loud, and definitely creepy. Although I do know that this one older guy (in his 50s maybe) who hangs out at a club that is frequented by mostly guys/girls in 20s. He is pretty cool and laidback but it's just odd for him to be in that environment.

The Forms Good post. But the men they hang around with (don't think any of them really do) live boring lives probably out of choice than necessity. I think we can all agree that vast majority of men today are AFCs who were pressured into their boring lives by their wife, their AFC fathers, or their AFC peers. Every once in awhile you hear about the older guy who is pretty awesome and has an exciting lifestyle. Guys like these are scarce from an AFC perspective. We know that DJs are like this and live exciting lives and don't make any room for boredom.

Rollo I hear that shaming a lot not only from the plates who want exclusivity and I have to turn them down, but also from friends who are in relationships/married. "Why can't you find a nice girl and be happy like us, Bat?"

I even hear the "you're getting old and need to find a girl" from my parents/family. I should mention that my family is from India so they all believe in "finding a nice girl and getting married = complete life". I've talked about it before but it's incredibly difficult to live outside of two matrices: western and eastern. I guess I'm staring to get used to it though because it's the same old crap from both matrices anyway.

Two of the three guys I mentioned in the OP have developed this "buffer". They are both in LTRs that started from college. They were talking about looking for a house so they can move in with their respective GFs. I asked them why and they said "it's the next step in our relationship".

Seriously? They are equating moving in with a GF or getting a serious GF "the next step". Why is this the next step? How does it show maturity and responsibility? Is there so much feminized influence today that commitment to a woman and a property serves as some sort of rite of passage for men into adulthood?

Maybe most people just need a witness to their lives and would rather "settle" for somebody less then desirable than live their lives completely alone.

 

[STR8UP]

Wow. Is this subject is getting played out, or is it just me?

A happy man is a man who has balance. One who is responsible and does not neglect building his empire for the sake of chasing women.

I suppose I got lucky. I say lucky because I didn't realize I was doing it at the time, but back when I was just getting started trying to "conquer the world", that became more important to me than hooking up with chicks. I never really felt like I was getting old, and I never really felt the pressure to "man up" and settle down.

The result of this was that by the time I was 35 years old I had the resources that gave me a "shaming shield". Since people looked at me like I had reached the top, I was much less susceptible to people trying to cajole and bully me into fitting into some sort of ridiculous mold. I was a 30 something guy who had permission to party, hook up with younger women, drive nice cars, etc.

I truly feel bad for these 20 something guys who feel like they are washed up. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. They will allow themselves to slide into mediocrity.

But you know what? As much as it pisses me off at times how society is allowed to lie to men at the expense of men, I look at it as weeding out the competition. Guys like me who are shamed and laugh it off can do whatever we want, while the guys that buy into the feminist agenda tuck their tail between their legs, marry the first decent looking woman who will have them, and proceed to die a slow and unhappy death. Meantime, their wife hit the 4 or 7 year mark, gets an itch, and ends up jumping ME, the kind of guy who they love to shame.

Who wins in this? Women, and Alpha males. Who loses? The rest of the feminized male population.

Don't concern yourself with other people. Be your own man and let them remain ignorant. There is only so much room at the top.

 

[grinder]

I’m briefly combing the ancient and overused looks thread with some fundamental laws that usurp all else.

At any age, if you are engaging, humorous, challenging, and have some looks, you will succeed.

Their really are no exceptions.

This very simple formula works and has worked for me so well. At 50 I could boast but most just would not believe me.

I just ask you; please believe in what is posted here: it works. It really does if you can implement it.

But, can you implement it?