My views on the pickup artist tv show

[guywhoneedshelp]

Last night Farrah came over to watch the Pick Up Artist show with me and I really started to realize how bull **** some of this show is. I have no idea how I never managed to watch this show ever during it's first season, and I was just tuned into it recently. While the show is educational and informative there are some things I don't agree with, one of them being the fact that it is a show.

Because this is on NATIONAL TELEVISION (and on VH1.com for others to watch) is making the community and it's jargon way too popular. Back when the seduction community only existed in books and online message boards, the power of men getting together and talking about chicks was much stronger. Now there are so many AFC's trying to transform themselves, which is good for them and I am happy for them, but there are certain locations now that are just flooded with community members and it's really quite disturbing.

You can't even go to Manhattan's west side on a Friday or Saturday night without running into at least 5 community guys. At Hotel Gansevoort it's the ****ing playoffs over there.

I have stopped doing indirect openers that start with "I need a female opinion" or "could I get your opinion on something?" because I'm afraid one of them is going to say something along the lines of "do you watch that show?"

I was at the park on Manhattan's west side once talking to Anthony Kelly about demonstrating high value and this guy started talking to us about the show. At the time I had never even see the show. Yes, there once was a time that Mystery only existed in writing, such as forum posts, and then the Venusian arts handbook which started as an Ebook but then was turned into a paperback book which he promoted on the Conan Obrien show.

I think the show and his fame is great because it really can help some people, but there is some bull **** about it. For one, these guys go to great venues that don't look anything like the venues in Long Island. Try gaming in Long Island clubs with indirect openers and let me know how it works for you. Another thing is the fact that this is on television. Now we have so many people typing "pick up artist" into their web browser that the community has become overflooded with AFC's trying to transform themselves. More and more of them are just nerds discussing theory on a message board, and I'm sure many of them hardly leave the house. Some of the ones that do leaving their house are merely social robots, reciting canned material that they read online and not at all being themselves because quite frankly themself is ****. If they were every forced to be themselves, many of them would have nothing to talk about. Very few of the newcomers in the community realize the actual purpose of the community, which is self improvement and overall feeling better about yourself. Picking up girls is just a side effect of that.

I'll write about the community some other time. But for now I'll end with an excerpt:
Neil Strauss - The Game, Page 397
"I needed to sarge-not because I wanted to pick up women, but because I wanted to get into a positive state and talkative mood. Otherwise I was going to just crack sitting there so awkwardly.
As I ordered a drink at the bar, I smelled lilacs behind me. I turned around to see two women in black evening dresses. "Hey guys, let me get your opinion on something," I began, with a little less enthusiasm as usual.
Let me guess," one of the women said. "You have a friend whose girlfriend is jealous because he still talks to his ex from college."
"Like, every guy keeps asking us that," her friend said. "What's the deal?"
I grabbed my Jack and Coke and shuffled out to the smoking patio-the site of my pickup battle with Heidi Fleiss. With some trepidation, I delivered the spells opener to a two-set sitting on a bench. FOrtunately, they hadn't heard it.
"Hey," I said afterward. I really wasn't feeling it, but I wanted to push myself to be talkative. "How long have you guys known each other?"
"About ten years," one of the girls said.
"I could tell. I have to give you guys the best friends test."
"Oh, we know that one already," she said politely.
It had finally happened: The Sunset Strip was sarged out.
The community had grown large and reckless; too many competing businesses were teaching the same material. And we had saturated more than just Los Angeles. PUAs in San Diego, Montreal, New York, San Francisco, and Toronto had been reporting the same problem lately: They were running out of fresh girls to sarge."

This is why I think the Pickup Artist show has its downside. Too many people are entering the community with no personality, and becoming social robots saying whatever they need to say to get a girls attention. When I go out with a girl, I maybe have one or two stories that I saved for her, that's about it. Maybe something that happened recently, that I just feel like telling somebody, but for the most part what I talk about depends on where the conversation goes. A lot of these community guys have nothing to talk about because all they do is talk theory all day. I'm not going to go on a rant about the seduction community (save that for another time), but I will say that it can be motivating and helpful but I really think some people take it too far, and a lot of people who watch this show are doing just that.

 

[Solomon]

This is why I'm surprised hat you say you are a PUA, because you seem natural to me dog

But anyway I c/s this to the fullest. Mystery and a lot of other "pua" guru's sold the community out, yet you see tons of posters here hugging his nuts. That's why I find it funny, that people still use "routines' I rather be natural, going direct for me works a lot better because I cut thru the bull****, if I go indirect I'm trying to guage intrest first, qualify her but usual by the time I get to where I wanna go, I'm already just "the fun guy" and not the guy shorty wants to f***K

love this post!!

 

[Duffdog]

I agree that its pretty wack. When I didn't know about PUA's I would wonder why so many guys did the same thing over and over. Now it seems like the females are catching on and the "techniques" are getting old. AFC's are still AFC's it seems, even with all the knowledge in the world.

 

[Warrior74]

KINO ESCALATE FOOL! We shout that **** out in the club...its pretty funny because you can always see the nerdy doods turn around like "who said that!" with a look of fear on their faces! Outted! lol.

 

[daygameguy]

I agree with all you guys. But I have some thoughts on this:

You can still use indirect openers, just don't make them sound canned.

Instead of using "hey can I get a female opinion blah blah .." just launch the main question like "what's the best age for a girl to get her ears pierced, my niece just turned 8 and she's begging her mom to get an ear piercing. I think she's too young for that, don't you think?"

You can just use a natural opener - "Hi I'm XYZ, who are you?" - and then follow a good structure to guide your game.

You can go in with ANY line or story or conversation starter (verbal or non verbal) that can capture her attention effectively so you can demonstrate a higher value.

You can even say (with a decent smile) - "you look exactly like my high school friend Jessy, she was a little taller but you look exactly like her."

^^notice the optional neg (she was taller)

You can even go in situational, and then use that basic PUA structure, win over the girl first, qualify her, and then show some interest before closing.

Knowing how to kino escalate (without canned routines) in comfort with a girl, is also a good piece of knowledge to have.

I'd recommend understanding the structure of the game, knowing the do's and dont's, knowing how to project your identity & personality in the best way, knowing how to and when to close, knowing how to use correct body language, all these little knowledge bits are very helpful.

Going in natural doesn't mean you HAVE to go in direct. It also doesn't mean you have go in without a plan or some sort of structure. You just need to improvise more. A natural improvises more than a PUA. That's the difference.

The thing is, low inner game AFCs guys don't internalize the structure and the dos and don'ts, and come off too contrived and clunky.

For instance, when you are qualifying a girl, she should have no idea that you are actually qualifying her, and she will sub-consciously start feeling that you have the higher value, and she should live up to YOUR standards. Things like that.

 

[Solomon]

I agree with all you guys. But I have some thoughts on this:

You can still use indirect openers, just don't make them sound canned.

Instead of using "hey can I get a female opinion blah blah .." just launch the main question like "what's the best age for a girl to get her ears pierced, my niece just turned 8 and she's begging her mom to get an ear piercing. I think she's too young for that, don't you think?"

You can just use a natural opener - "Hi I'm XYZ, who are you?" - and then follow a good structure to guide your game.

You can go in with ANY line or story or conversation starter (verbal or non verbal) that can capture her attention effectively so you can demonstrate a higher value.

You can even say (with a decent smile) - "you look exactly like my high school friend Jessy, she was a little taller but you look exactly like her."

^^notice the optional neg (she was taller)

You can even go in situational, and then use that basic PUA structure, win over the girl first, qualify her, and then show some interest before closing.

Knowing how to kino escalate (without canned routines) in comfort with a girl, is also a good piece of knowledge to have.

I'd recommend understanding the structure of the game, knowing the do's and dont's, knowing how to project your identity & personality in the best way, knowing how to and when to close, knowing how to use correct body language, all these little knowledge bits are very helpful.

Going in natural doesn't mean you HAVE to go in direct. It also doesn't mean you have go in without a plan or some sort of structure. You just need to improvise more. A natural improvises more than a PUA. That's the difference.

The thing is, low inner game AFCs guys don't internalize the structure and the dos and don'ts, and come off too contrived and clunky.

For instance, when you are qualifying a girl, she should have no idea that you are actually qualifying her, and she will sub-consciously start feeling that you have the higher value, and she should live up to YOUR standards. Things like that.

^^give me some examples for qualfying a girl, its the weakest area in my game

 

[daygameguy]

Basic qualification:

What did you wanna be when you were little?

Why are you not doing that?

Do you change your ambitions that easily?

What did your parents and teachers suggest you do?

Why didn't you think about their advice.. are you always stubborn and strict about your opinions?

What would you say your best qualities are besides your looks?

Do you think in a failed relationship, its the guy who's always wrong?

 

[Solomon]

^^I like the "what you think your best qualities are besides look"

great q, your whole posts on point man

I like that

I think my game is more natural although I do follow pua idelogy (if you think about it half of them are social principles anyway)

 

[daygameguy]

if you think about it half of them are social principles anyway

exactly. there is no need to see it as a method or "game".

 

[Solomon]

exactly. there is no need to see it as a method or "game".

It is a method though when a guy using the same lines for all the girls in all his approachs.....

When I approach, I approach and use the situation around me I.e. girl was standing with her friend, she had had nice earrings, I complimented her on those and asked her where she got them because I'm lookng to get my sisters something for xmas, a simple question like that turned into a 10 mintue engaging convo.

 

[guywhoneedshelp]

Good thread here, some good replies.

I do like some of Mystery's teachings, the importance of engaging the whole set and stuff like that, but most of the stuff I've read from David D and sosuave.com has been helpful because he really tells you how to prepare for actual dates. Pickup is just one third of the game.

I never really had problems picking up girls, but I always liked reading, and this happens to be one of my passions in life. Some stuff has been helpful, like the sosuave.com tip of the day newsletter, which has gave me things like date ideas, little tricks to try and stuff like that, remember to clean your house (many guys I know live in sh!t hole apartments and wonder why they can't get laid. I have candles and cleanliness and lava lamps and big TV's and sh!t like that)

I think it's important though to make sure you know who you are. Some things will work for you others wont. When I make eye contact with a girl and use smiles to get her attention, I can go direct. This may be in large part due to the fact that I have brown hair and blue eyes, and hence am noticeably attractive. Then on day 2's the fact that I have a nice car and a good job make it more likely that a girl will have a day 3 with me. You can't always lack looks (and by looks I don't mean you have to be a model, but nicely dressed and adequately groomed) and not having a life by learning game. Yet, no amount of studying game is too much. I'm a knowledge junkie, I read, it helps.

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

I quit using pickup lines and techniques and cheesy pua tactics. Just be your Don Juan self.

 

[Prodigy746]

KINO ESCALATE FOOL! We shout that **** out in the club...its pretty funny because you can always see the nerdy doods turn around like "who said that!" with a look of fear on their faces! Outted! lol.

That just made my day.... AHAHH ROFL

 

[Daddy The Pimp]

I was probably one of the Mystery's biggest fans . I loved using every single routine .
Now im natural .And when i look back at that sh1t , it looks really creepy . My friends that still use them , look so fvcking weird to me .

Real Social Dynamics helped me improve my game and put to to the next level .
I recommand you to do it .

Start by clicking on the link on my signature , then reading the instructors blogs , and getting their products . Its awesome .

Also you might want to listen to this two hour FREE seminar from Tyler Durden

www.realsocialdynamics.com/audio.asp

Its old one and have some canned sh1t , but its gonna fill a lot of gaps that you have been needing .

 

[guywhoneedshelp]

I was probably one of the Mystery's biggest fans . I loved using every single routine .
Now im natural .And when i look back at that sh1t , it looks really creepy . My friends that still use them , look so fvcking weird to me .

Real Social Dynamics helped me improve my game and put to to the next level .
I recommand you to do it .

Start by clicking on the link on my signature , then reading the instructors blogs , and getting their products . Its awesome .

Also you might want to listen to this two hour FREE seminar from Tyler Durden

www.realsocialdynamics.com/audio.asp

Its old one and have some canned sh1t , but its gonna fill a lot of gaps that you have been needing .

At first glance I always felt that RSD was way to complicated. They seem to be master manipulators and they are extremely geeky when it comes to studying human behavior. I don't want to have to get a PhD in psychiatry just to sarge...

I will look more into it though. This is on first glance. Also in the game Neil Strauss talked about how all Tyler and Papa cared about was making money. At one time they went months without going out on any dates and they just huddled in their room and discussed business strategies...

I'll give it a chance though. I'm a knowledge junkie.

 

[Snow Plowman]

This is irrelevant, the large amounts of community guys aren't a factor at all...Most barely go out, are scared, not really pushing the limit. There are SO many newbies who just check it out and then give up.

I've been in venues where there were TONS of community guys, (20+) and these guys aren't a factor. Each night I've had my choice of who I wanted to pull and would leave the venue with a good amount of chicks.

My biggest thing is...if your using canned material you are limiting yourself SO MUCH. The thing is while I may be in this community nobody can actually tell that I'm COMMUNITY because I BREAK ALL THE GUIDELINES...and the fact that my style is WAY different than majority of people, which is because I looked for "My Method" within, thanks to the help of this community.

Perfect example is me approaching a chick on the street and talking for about an hour, she brings up the game talking about how I don't need it...

Most of the guys who are good, are just good talkers...they don't pull the trigger and that already classifies them as chodes.

Just always remember...chicks aren't going to stop liking COOL GUYS...

If really want to just destroy the community guys and just take all the girls, then basically open them and merge them altogether into one huge group...I've done this many times and I was able to take any girl I want throughout the night, all you have to do is reopen and move them away from the guys...

Overall though it's cool that it's going mainstream because many more people will change there life...

 

[guywhoneedshelp]

Snow, you got a point. Yea, I have my own stuff that works, but I'm saddened at the fact that some of these guys have no life and the popularity of this show has made more internet nerds who talk theory all day but rarely go out and make it happen.

I'm a good talker, I basically do have "My Method" drawing state from within living in my own reality. Certain advice is helpful. I talk to a lot of chicks about the community and the game and we mostly just laugh at the whole situation, which sadly is:

Guys talking about talking to chicks. Some of them only talk. Some of them are weird. Some of them like to help others. Some of them just post on here when they are bored at work. Some of them don't go out and sarge.

 

[Miguel]

I love this thread, seriously awesome stuff.

I think the thing is, there are really VERY few guys who go out and make this stuff work to begin with compared to the amount of guys who sit at home and don't do anything to get better. I've found personally, I exceptionally good at indirect functional openers followed by an immediate humorous observational transition.

AKa

ME: Hey, what time is it?
Her: "Blah, blah blah..."
ME: Hey, is that a _______ purse, my little sister has one of those, I thought only kids bought them? (Kino if she seems comfortable with hand on shoulder.)
Her: 'usually laugh, smile, or whatever... Bleh blub'
ME: Lol cool stuff, I'm guessing you’re the bad girl in your group of friends.... (And so on. Start developing humour threads and junk)
---Usually ends after 3 minutes with:
ME: Hey, your cool, but we could never hang out… (They cut me off 99% of the time with, “why not”? If not then I go into the whole were to similar thing…)
HER: Okay, Here then, (Hand over cell) put your number into this, and we can meet up sometime to hang out.
Her: “I’m not like this most of the time, okay, or some other ‘I’m not a slut thing’.”



(Well this is just a example, AND NOT a good one at that, but it shows my style.)

Functional, then rapidly direct. (Throw in a TINY sway in/out to get them off balance.)

The key is humour and rock solid confidence.

You see, any guru would tell you my method is unusual, and it probably won’t work for you, but every time I've been out with people I end up with at least 3 or 4 girl by closing time. (Btw, it does follow the MM formula, just in a weird way.) The thing I’m trying to get across here was best said by Savory “everyone is different, and what works for [one person] isn’t going to work for you.” You have to customize this sh!t and make it your own. The problem with all these social robots is that they probably could make their own routines, this stuff is not rocket science, but they constantly fall back on the training wheels and end up hurting themselves.

But to be honest, I love it. Whenever a guy approaches the set I’m in with the intent of stealing, especially dudes in the ‘community’ it’s fun to slice and dice e’m. If you’re the legit deal, you’ll know what I’m talking about.

 

[Solomon]

This is irrelevant, the large amounts of community guys aren't a factor at all...Most barely go out, are scared, not really pushing the limit. There are SO many newbies who just check it out and then give up.

I've been in venues where there were TONS of community guys, (20+) and these guys aren't a factor. Each night I've had my choice of who I wanted to pull and would leave the venue with a good amount of chicks.

My biggest thing is...if your using canned material you are limiting yourself SO MUCH. The thing is while I may be in this community nobody can actually tell that I'm COMMUNITY because I BREAK ALL THE GUIDELINES...and the fact that my style is WAY different than majority of people, which is because I looked for "My Method" within, thanks to the help of this community.

Perfect example is me approaching a chick on the street and talking for about an hour, she brings up the game talking about how I don't need it...

Most of the guys who are good, are just good talkers...they don't pull the trigger and that already classifies them as chodes.

Just always remember...chicks aren't going to stop liking COOL GUYS...

If really want to just destroy the community guys and just take all the girls, then basically open them and merge them altogether into one huge group...I've done this many times and I was able to take any girl I want throughout the night, all you have to do is reopen and move them away from the guys...

Overall though it's cool that it's going mainstream because many more people will change there life...

C/s

I'm part of the community but I ain't no PUA
Its funny cause the community is active here but I don't go where they go, on top of that me being black no one would ever ever guess it ROFL


However, Snow, Guy has a point, The community satuated L.A. to a point where guys where hitting on the same chicks all the time, that to me is LAME

@guy--I love talking game, I talk with the best of them, but go thru my FR's I don't just talk this, I live it to the fullest, hell I charge anyday, tonight Im sarging even tho I gotta be at work tommrow but I do it for the love of the game and women, sometimes I don't know what I love more lol,

 

[Duffdog]

Just always remember...chicks aren't going to stop liking COOL GUYS

If that isn't one of the best quotes ever on this site, I don't know what is. Just think, before there were PUA's, cool guys got laid, now that the world is full of PUA's, cool guys STILL get laid. There are still girls hanging off their arm because the girls WANT to be there, not because they got tricked with some lines or game. BTW-- that is the only reason that any of the hosts on the pick up artist show have anything going for them...they can always fall back on their looks or their $$$ while the average guy cannot. In my opinion, its complete BS and fake.