My Status

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
Cold approaches boost my confidence b/c I'm in the game instead of sitting on the sidelines. You do it, and you feel the admiration of others wishing they had the balls. It absolutely does not matter what the outcome is. The satisfying part is just making the approach.

I think right now you are just philosophizing -- you need to get out someplace and start playing and you'll see what we're talking about. 100 approaches? Start with just one and tell us how it goes.

Oh I can relate! Though I dont do them yet much.. but I sure can!
There is only one question then: you gotta completely separate yourself from the outcome. I think I can forget about her number\email, thats fine, forget about being rejected once-twice.
But about being "rejected" with "I have a bf, married" most of the time is sort of tough. How did you do that: just a mindset that you worked on?

The more I think about it.. yes, I admit I am philosophizing, the more I conclude I need to try those supplements as soon as possible.
Example: I recall my friend in his very late 30 showed me how he does approches. First he get slightly drunk (it was in Europe, you can get drunk, drink and walk around the city, it is ok there). Then he found a pair of decent looking gals (HB6-8) who were walking pretty fast. He not only managed to start talking to them while being drunk, he basically did the most convo part for 4 of us.
And he is not a great talker.. he is actually un introvert!
So we chatted with girls while walking (15 min maybe), got their numbers walk away. I was very surprised by his ability to transform himself from a quiet introvert to a talkative dude even for 15 min. Probably being drunk helps.
I sure will get that supplement stuff tomorrow.

 

[iveyleeger]

Your friend sounds cool. I'd like to be that guy, but younger.

However, today did not go right. I went out (great weather) and hung out at a cafe right on the square, plenty of action. But all I saw were couples. This always makes me a little jealous, sorry to say. Hot women with other guys. Also, some big groups of women, but nobody that seemed approachable.

Then some guy came up and sits down next to me and starts chatting me up. This I find really annoying. I am not interested in meeting guys. The fact that I am sitting their looking friendly is for the women's benefit. And, lame as it sounds, I am not yet good at getting rid of these dudes. I don't know why I attract them. I dress like a normal guy (not gay) and make it clear I am interested in women from the first sentence. I don't know if he was gay or just had a euro accent.

Anyway, wandered back, ran into a neighbor in my building. Chatted a bit, he invited me out to drinks with his buddies. This was cool, but I had to still eat dinner and change so I said I might drop by later. Meantime I looked up the place they were going to. It's a "see and be seen" upscale club. Yikes. I hate that sh-t. A lot of beautiful people packed into a smoky dance area talking about yuppie b.s. and paying $15+ for ****tails. So I skipped it.

Inevitably, that makes me feel bad. It's a missed chance to make some connections or do some approaches. But I'm not a club kind of guy at all. So I'll just have to invite him out to one of my spots the next time I see him.

Then I browsed around the interet and found some girl's blog. And for whatever reason it really annoyed me. She has post after post about the most vapid crap. Apparently she spends all her time going to happy hours and pre-parties and clubs, etc. She wants a new who is more assertive in bed (but meanwhile still f-cks the old one that she "broke up" with). Men should be "gentlemen" and she is a lady, she says, but she posts pics of random fat guys and makes fun of them. This sh-t could turn me into a Conservative. It's pure "Sex and the City." Mindless materialistic bullsh-t and self-absorbed prattle. And she wonders why she is single! I guess that is the reason I bailed on the club scene. It would just piss me off to waste even five minutes with a vapid little creature like that, however pretty. And sadly, this one was just about my age.

 

[iveyleeger]

Tonight the guy I ran into last week invited me out for drinks. To my pleasant surprise he brought a couple of good looking women along, too, really much better quality than I'd expected from him, much to his credit.

So on the good side, I was in a good mood, just got a haircut, and looked sharp. The conversation flowed smoothly, the two women did most of the talking, and I did most of the rest. I maintained good eye contact with both of them, got good responses to my jokes, used some neg hits to make them blush a bit, and had good rapport. It was a smooth performance.

On the bad side, though, it was a performance. I was friendly and entertaining. And there is nothing sexy about a friendly, entertaining guy. No tension. Instant friendzone.

So one of them left after an hour, and the other came out with us to a lounge. We basically lounged around, and I tried making eye contact with all the women there while chatting with my company. And as far as I could tell, they all ignored me. Sometimes it seemed like I'd got a response, but if I looked again, nothing. I don't have a lot of experience in this venue but I'd expect the same kind of buy signal as anywhere else.

So I took the time to look at everyone else, and basically there were a lot of people just sitting there doing nothing, making no eye contact with anyone, just staring into some middle distance, or talking to their friends. One really beautiful girl, sitting by herself, and seeming to avoid everyone's eye contact. Presumably b/c all the guys would be on her at once, and she was waiting for the cool one. Anyway, interesting the contortions she had to go through to manage not to look at anybody. Maybe beauty really is a burden.

Anyway, after an hour of lounging, we walked the remaining girl home and went to another local bar. This place was packed, just the kind of thing I don't like, a bunch of loud drunk guys with their hot college girlfs who are so impressed with how obnoxious they can be, as if this is the measure of a man, instead of a monkey -- but I digress. The music was good. The guy I was with tried dancing with a couple girls who were dancing with each other, but he didn't get any buy signals from them first. I scanned the crowd looking for eye contact first, but got nothing. I already know how useless it is to approach women without getting the invite so I wasn't surprised when he got no place, and some big dudes showed up after that. Not exactly a hangout for the intelligensia but an interesting cultural experience.

So, overall, it was an enjoyable Friday night, but not a productive one. What I noted, though, was how wrong I'd been about this guy. Last year I blew him off b/c I figured he was a dweeb. In fact, he goes out all the time. While I spent most of my time with a couple women, he was making a lot more friends, and hitting a lot more happy hours. It apparently didn't yield him any gf's yet, but the man gets credit for making a whole lot more effort than my lazy azz.

One final note, though, we sat down at the bar, and the waitress -- who was pretty hot -- took my drink order, and seemed to blow off my buddy. She started to walk away, so I whistled at her, she did a 180, I looked her directly in the eye, and motioned for her to come back. I think in the past I would not have been that assertive and let it slide. But now I think it's unacceptable for a woman to be rude to me or any friend of mine (which is also being rude to me). However hot she is, that doesn't translate to intelligence, wealth, power, talent, status, creativity, or any sort of success that I respect. WOmen are free to ignore me, but I will not hesitate to let them know exactly where they are in the true world hierarchy when they cross that line. When she brought our drinks, she was very polite. That was the best part of the night.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
Tonight the guy I ran into last week invited me out for drinks. To my pleasant surprise he brought a couple of good looking women along, too, really much better quality than I'd expected from him, much to his credit.

So on the good side, I was in a good mood, just got a haircut, and looked sharp. The conversation flowed smoothly, the two women did most of the talking, and I did most of the rest. I maintained good eye contact with both of them, got good responses to my jokes, used some neg hits to make them blush a bit, and had good rapport. It was a smooth performance.

On the bad side, though, it was a performance. I was friendly and entertaining. And there is nothing sexy about a friendly, entertaining guy. No tension. Instant friendzone.

If you are friendly and especially entertaining when you do cold approaches... you must have had quite a success.
And it might change "your status".

Have you done BC or just jumped to the most interesting part of approches and convo?

 

[Rock33]

iveyleeger and ricky, where you guys from? i'm looking for a wingman if your intrested i'm living in RI.

 

[iveyleeger]

Rock -- About 500 miles too far away for me. I think Ricky is in Boston.

 

[Rock33]

thanks man, YO RICKY, WHERE ARE YOU? LOL

 

[Ricky]

Boston now and a shell of the man i used to be.

But not for long. even the Phoenix rises from it's ashes and so will I.

Although I"d prefer to live in Phoenix even if id' be roasting right now.

 

[iveyleeger]

update

Okay, finally got things going again, feel free to comment . . .

First, got things very clear with the ex that I was not going to visit her this summer, period. I think I was trapped by the guilt from that relationship, and she was not letting me move on. I had to kill that guilt, to get on with things.

Then, got back in touch with a woman from last summer that I broke things off with b/c of ex. I'm not that interested in her, but she is a like a groupie, it's good to have a couple of those around.

Then went to Macys and updated my wardrobe at their Father's day sale. Got the good stuff half price and I look good.

Then invited my friend (see above) to a free embassy concert, suggested he bring his women along, he brought one, and she brought another guy, met them there. It was fine, though I was a bit stiff, and was really the odd man out.

Concert was fabulous. Afterwards, my friend invited us out to a happy hour. His friends bailed, but we hit the bar, I opened a tab on my card, bought us some beers, and we surveyed things.

Then he introduced me to a six he knows, I chatted with her awhile, typical party girl, then some of her friends came up, my friend left, and I started turning into a tree. This is where I've bailed on these things in the past, but not this time.

Left them, talked to some random dudes, then found my buddy talking to a 4 and a 5, who he also knows. Bought them drinks, joined the convo, and kicked it up a notch, using EC, C/F, etc. Basically acted like I owned the place. Both girls instantly wanted me. Ah, back in the game.

I considered that 5 + 4 = 9, but decided that I really didn't have room for two, and focused on the five. The 4 and my friend got the message and left. The 5 and I grabbed a couch and talked for an hour, and I just maintained very good EC. It was pretty obvious she wanted me to make out with her there, the lingering looks, etc. But I really didn't feel like it. So we just talked until we got hungry.

Then we decided to go eat, and it was like we were already a couple. She's like, I'm going to use the bathroom, and I'll meet you by the bar. I'm like, okay, honey. So I close the tab, she comes back, I give her some kino walking down the stairs.

We walk to the restaurant, meet more friends of my friend, this guy knows everyone! I ignore the girl for the most part now and talk with the others. Also make EC with some other chicks sitting alone nearby, which is real easy to do when you are already with one girl. Basic rule being, if you have a woman, all the other women want you. Note that on a "date" you are not "allowed" to do that, b/c you are supplicating to the girl, but when it's an informal "it just happened" date, you can do anything you want, b/c you are the prize.

Anyway, after dinner, five says she wants to go salsa dancing. My friend doesn't. But this is her favorite thing, what she used to do all the time, I am smart enough to go. She basically wants to show me her world now (she's already told me her life story). So I let her know I don't dance, but I'd love to go and meet her dancing buddies. So we walk over to this club, she introduces me to all these latin guys she dances with, I sit with them at the bar and watch her take turns dancing with them.

Then she tells me she wants to teach me to dance, but I tell her it's past my bedtime, but I need her number. Really, it felt more like reminding my I need the car keys or something. She gives me a card with her name and number on it, and tells me to call her tom. I smile, look her in the eyes, make out with her for a few minutes, and leave.

* * * * *

So overall I am happy with this night b/c it shows that if you make an effort you can be rewarded. I found the event, invited the people out, bought them drinks, and made myself in demand. As a result I got a girlfriend for the evening, and I'm sure I'll get invited out again.

 

[allan976]

The key thing is, you had a good time. Reminds me of my recent Tuesday night: I approached some '6's' and had a good time with it! Typically, I never approach unless I see a '7' or better during my daytime approaches (which are unfortunately becoming increasingly rare due to my suddenly very busy work schedule).

I really hate to admit it brothers, but I get beer goggles very, very quickly. After just one beer that night, a '6' suddenly seemed incredibly appealing.

Lesson learned: perhaps HB'7's' '8's' and '9's' get beer goggles too? I certainly hope so!

 

[iveyleeger]

Yeah, god bless beer goggles! And average looking girls... Without them, half the world wouldn't reproduce.

Like you, I approach only the hotties in daytime, but this means I don't do enough approaches, and can end up ejecting awkwardly. What usually happens is I open the convo, it starts to flow, we hit a "soft patch" (greenspan talk), and superman reverts to clark kent. So I think it pays to play the lower end of the scale to keep your confidence up and your game intact.

HB beer goggles -- Sure they do. But the more powerful brew is social proof. I think that just like guys have a hard time telling if other guys are hot, women have a hard time telling if you are using 5's or 7's for social proof. Also, they will think the ugliest women are "beautiful", like Barbra Streisand. In any case, I notice the hotties checking me out in a much friendlier way even if I've only got a 5 by my side. Probably doesn't work with Ugs, though.

 

[allan976]

"What usually happens is I open the convo, it starts to flow, we hit a "soft patch" (greenspan talk), and superman reverts to clark kent."

Leeger,

I hate to advocate the Gunwitch method for the umpteenth time on this board, but let me advocate Gunwitching for the umpteenth time on this board anyway. You just gotta keep going with the convo: say anything, mention something you like, ask open ended questions,or just throw out some generic filler if you can't think of anything else at that moment: 'that's interesting', 'cool', 'i hear it,' whatever you need to say to keep it rolling until she starts to feel comfortable, starts to relax and warms up you, and then keep escalating with the kino.

If you need even more assistance with this, check out American Pimp by the Hughes Brothers. Watch those players work and work: they NEVER shut up. As you will notice, even if the girl never says 'yes,' they never say 'no' either, and the player notices and continues and continues with the verbal game.

PS: Who do I hold liable if I become an alcoholic? LOL. With no cover (like those damm clubs), plenty of '5's' and '6's' and beer to make them look good, isn't this like free nightly (if mediocre) action?

Gunwitch:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46286

 

[DJohnson]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
I am 31 and work for myself and I feel like I am missing the opportunity to go out for drinks "with the firm" and meet new people. Most of my local friends are either married or AFC. I do go out with them but rarely meet anyone new or available that way.

Trust ME, you have MANY more opportunities for expanding your sorcial sphere working for yourself. It just takes discipline at first to get out there.

I also go out alone and have met some interesting people but being naturally shy I am not always up for it. It's a lot easier in the daytime when more people are eating lunch alone. On weekend nights it feels lonely walking around by yourself. Bars are mostly too crowded for my taste though I do enjoy live music.

Then don't go to them. No one says you gotta go to bars and clubs. Join a club. Perhaps an art club? Foreign language club, etc, there will be women there!

I have also taken some night classes as a way to meet new people, that has worked well, but I often feel like the single women are fighting over me, whereas mostly I'm interested in making friends first (I think a lot of them are desparate). Then, when they don't "get" me, they seem to hate me, and it's unpleasant.

Hmmm....can you be more specific? Perhaps you are projecting something. onto them that makes them ACT wierd after "they don't get " you as you say.

So I am sort of stuck being a loner with a lot of aquaintances but no regular crowd. This is bumming me out. I am thinking of it now b/c a bunch of college friends are planning a reunion and it reminds me of how different things were then.

I understand. Short of a motivational speech all I can say is don't go the reuninion if you don't want to. It aint the damn law.

Anyway I am just writing all this down to sort it out. I've almost convinced one married friend of mine with a nice apt. to host a party in a week or two and invite his neighbors (i.e., fresh blood). I've got another friend that's into live music and we will hit some venues soon. I think I'll take a trip to San Fran and Europe with college buddies which will at least be refreshing. I think I need to join a gym and some kind of extracurricular organization, too.

YES YES YES now you are talking!

Overall, my feeling is that I've got my business on the right track, I've learned how to manage some personal demons, and I've learned something about women. There should be some good ones out there for me now.

Some guys would not advocate this but sometimes its cool to find a nice sweet, cute ( not too hot or anything ) girl who is cool with you seeing other women but can listen to your feelings on things. Sort of like a super AFC chick, reversal type thing.

Peace,

 

[iveyleeger]

Allan, you are right, stay in the ****pit. Actually, it's mostly a matter of keeping my composure. Something to work on. Also, there must be a lot of hotties at AA based on what I've observed.

DJ, yeah, I tend to get those kind of girls easily enough. Good thing they don't know about this place.

 

[iveyleeger]

Latest update. Went to a club last night for a concert. Have gone in the past with an AFC buddy, but decided I didn't want the dead weight to drag around. It was a very mixed crowd. Found a spot with a good view so I could see what was going on, and more importantly, be seen.

First thing that happens, a group of three girls on the floor below start smiling and waving at me. They were maybe 6's, 7's, hard to tell at a distance. I suppose I could have just smiled and waved back, but I really hate that kind of attention. So I just started talking to the guy next to me and ignored them, and they stopped. Maybe they thought I was somebody else? But weirdly this happens from time to time, a group of hot girls will start dogging me, it is always 3 or 4 of them, too, and only if I'm alone.

Anyway, next thing that happens, some guy comes up and after some chit chat, won't go away. Maybe he's just looking for company, but I came out alone with the express purpose of not being dogged by AFC's. If you are alone, and looking good, and use EC and open body language, single women will move into your vicinity, and then you can open them. That's how my game works. A dufus sidekick mucks it up. But I suspect he's gay, so I give him the "check out those hot girls" test, he doesn't say much, and goes to get a drink. I guess I should be flattered, but honestly, it's f'ing annoying. The nice threads are for the girls, moron. If anyone knows a clear signal to keep gay guys from approaching, other than bring your girlfriend, post it here.

Next a single girl takes his place, stands next to me and pretends to read the concert flier. This is my cue. I'm not attracted to her, so I'm inclined to just wait until she leaves and another one shows up, but then I notice the guy headed back our way. Did he go load up at the bar so he could try to pull off on his fantasy of converting a straight guy? F'ing loser. So I move in close with the girl and make friends. Maybe she's paying him, I dunno

Meanwhile, I've been watching two sets of girls: another group of 3 and a group of 4. In four hours, no guys ever approach them, and they never separate. I don't think I could open a big group, especially when it's loud and I can't talk.

Afterwards I walk out with the girl I met, we sit and chat for awhile outside, and I get her info. I like her company, but she's a bit young (23) and not that hot. So I might call her in a couple weeks and just be friends, but that is probably just leading her on, so probably I won't.

 

[allan976]

"....a group of three girls on the floor below start smiling and waving at me. They were maybe 6's, 7's..."

--Get your butt over there right away. Especially if you see a '7' or better. If they're not as good looking as you thought, you can just chit chat with them for a few seconds and eject. This is clearly a 'no-obligation' situation where you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Even if they are good looking but you're not into it for whatever reason, kino them and let other HB's take notice of your work: exploit them as social proof and look around to see if other girls notice you opening up this set.

"I suppose I could have just smiled and waved back, but I really hate that kind of attention."

--See my note above. if a girl makes direct eye contact and smiles at you (and waves to boot), they want you to open/approach, no questions asked (no guarantees on the outcome).

"So I just started talking to the guy next to me and ignored them, and they stopped."

--You're breaking my heart, bro! You're breaking my heart!

Leeger, I've been reading your posts and you seem committed to DJ-ing; have you gone through a proper bootcamp? A ton of guys are starting up on the main board if you want some support there. It seems like you've got a lot of potential, and I'd like to see you go through this free program and really ratchet your game up to the next level.

 

[iveyleeger]

Allan,

Tell me this free program can be mine for just three easy payments of $24.99 )

 

[allan976]

Boot Camp plus a spare $2K

"Allan, Tell me this free program can be mine for just three easy payments of $24.99 )"

--I'll do you one better. It's free. Just click on The DJ Bible in the upper right hand corner of this screen. When you get to the Don Juan Bible page, just click on DJ Boot Camp and download the entire document which takes you through eight weeks of intensive training (and the author is kind enough to ratchet up your confidence and boldness in gradual, piecemeal fashion).

The cost? Nada. By comparison, a buddy of mine just dropped nearly 2K to work with a dating coach (and a bunch of other newbs). The program he purchased is effective: I've seen him approach with little hesitation, but couldn't you train yourself to do this as well? And you could begin and experiment in venues less intimidating than L.A.'s main strip, where the dating coach threw my friend out to learn to approach. Why not start out with kittens rather than being thrown out to the lionesses (and save two g's in the process)? Good luck and report back.

 

[al77]

iveyleeger,

Your mail box is constantly full...

 

[DJohnson]

$2,0000 for a DATING COACH!?!?!?!?!

I am speechless. These workshops, etc.....Madness...