My Status

[iveyleeger]

I am 31 and work for myself and I feel like I am missing the opportunity to go out for drinks "with the firm" and meet new people. Most of my local friends are either married or AFC. I do go out with them but rarely meet anyone new or available that way.

I also go out alone and have met some interesting people but being naturally shy I am not always up for it. It's a lot easier in the daytime when more people are eating lunch alone. On weekend nights it feels lonely walking around by yourself. Bars are mostly too crowded for my taste though I do enjoy live music.

I have also taken some night classes as a way to meet new people, that has worked well, but I often feel like the single women are fighting over me, whereas mostly I'm interested in making friends first (I think a lot of them are desparate). Then, when they don't "get" me, they seem to hate me, and it's unpleasant.

So I am sort of stuck being a loner with a lot of aquaintances but no regular crowd. This is bumming me out. I am thinking of it now b/c a bunch of college friends are planning a reunion and it reminds me of how different things were then.

Anyway I am just writing all this down to sort it out. I've almost convinced one married friend of mine with a nice apt. to host a party in a week or two and invite his neighbors (i.e., fresh blood). I've got another friend that's into live music and we will hit some venues soon. I think I'll take a trip to San Fran and Europe with college buddies which will at least be refreshing. I think I need to join a gym and some kind of extracurricular organization, too.

Overall, my feeling is that I've got my business on the right track, I've learned how to manage some personal demons, and I've learned something about women. There should be some good ones out there for me now.

 

[DoubleD]

I know what your saying.. I had to move to a new city and setup a new business from home. I knew no one when I got here and business contacts were like old married men.

Anyway.. now (6mths later) I have a bunch of male and female friends. Have had heaps of sex with a whole bunch of women who have either dissapeared or remained friends. Now have a crew..but only dedicate a certain amount of time to them cause i enjoy cruising alone.

Basically.. you'll get what you want. Oh yeah.. if you don't like going out @ night alone.. then meet women during the day ... in the street, supermarket etc.. and then go with them @ night. So you get all bases covered. If you find your not into a certain woman.. befriend her.. put her into the friends circle and get her to start inviting you out with other friends. Soon you'll have the whole thing going.

Frankly.. now I feel sorry for those poor bastards who have their social circle based on 20 employees... or whatever.. such a limited and retroverted selection.

Good to hear that business is good.. now focus on other stuff you want. I went the other way.. focused too much on women and now putting in time to pull up business.. each to their own

 

[iveyleeger]

Totally agree on the 20 employees, it's too inbred in the end. Going solo makes you meet new people. Interesting that you still prefer that.

So to update again, I went out this afternoon (beautiful day) got some food at Safeway and sat outside to eat. Was there about 5 min when a young cutie showed up and asked to join me b/c there were no tables free. It was true there weren't any other tables free, but I figured she was still basically picking me up since women will not approach a guy they don't like and ask to join him for lunch. So this made it real easy to open the conversation -- which ended up lasting an hour.

On the good side, I got her to talk a lot about herself, found several things we had in common, maintained good eye contact, and kept things light. On the bad side, I talked too much about myself and my work and let it run longer than necessary. But I got her laughing and she was quite happy to give me her #. Since I didn't have a pen, though, I took her email. And it was funny b/c she made me spell it back to her to be sure I'd gotten it right.

So the real q. is why she approached me. Maybe just needed the table. Maybe just the great weather. Maybe a psycho. But before she came over I was hamming it up with the women behind the deli counter and they were eating it up. So there is a chance she saw me doing that and decided to meet me. Also, the advantage of a sunny day is you can wear cool shades. I've been wanting to get rid of these sun-glasses for years, they are falling apart, but every time I wear them I get hit on, esp. with two-day stubble going.

So I think my plan should be to do this every sunny day and see how many women I can meet. This is turning out to be much better than "drinks with the firm."

 

[Ricky]

The key my friend is what you did. Talk to each and every woman you meet. Including the 90 year old who lives in your apartment complex. Sounds funny but it is what helps you develop genuine charisma. Plus I love old people you can learn a ton from them!
They are a treasure!

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Ricky
The key my friend is what you did. Talk to each and every woman you meet. Including the 90 year old who lives in your apartment complex. Sounds funny but it is what helps you develop genuine charisma. Plus I love old people you can learn a ton from them!
They are a treasure!

I just realized this is my overall approach for development without really risking rejection. I flirt and converse with every woman I meet to develop the skills that I'll need after approaching women I want to date. For example, when I'm getting some physical therapy, I work rapport with several of the therapists and assistants who are both younger and older, single and married professional women. Just like pick ups, some don't respond well to flirting and eye contact, but most provide some level of feedback that is constructive.

I am not trying to pick them up but pretending to. I am really interested in their ability to help me work my game and convo skills. Some have confused my flirting with interest, but I always remain cool because I am truly not interested in what happens. This is a good exercise to build the composure needed when seducing beautiful women. Each women's different, so your analysis of their personalities, level of interest, relationship status, etc. follows the same cycles as women you'll talk to and pick up at a bar. I've even thrown in some light kino just to spice up the experience. Remember that your approach (the tough part) is still something that you'll need to work outside of this activity. But, you'll never feel nervous about keeping the conversation going or building interest.

I've noticed that a few hotties also doing therapy recognize my confidence and rapport. Presenting yourself as confident and comfortable by practicing on any woman who's available and willing to do the DJ dance with you regardless of age or looks is an invaluable and convenient way to get your character smooth and seamless. The older ladies love to talk more and have much more to say as they are experienced and starved for attention. Give it a try.

 

[iveyleeger]

Another walkabout

Good weather, polished my shoes, went for a walk around the city.

Made a lot of eye contact with women as they walked by, got some great smiles, and discovered this to be a really great way to torture myself. So many smiles, and nothing more. Reminds me of Ezra Pound:

"Apparitions of faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet black bough."

Found a great spot in the sun at a cafe, sat down, made lots of eye contact while reading a magazine and eating, but no responses. Two guys came over and sat down next to me at various points, though. I think it's the glasses. Last time I had on the sunglasses, I look like a rock star. Prescription glasses are not the same effect. Also the staff at the cafe were all guys so I didn't chat anyone up there.

Went to a couple bookstores, strutted around the magazine racks, realized I don't know how to pick up women in bookstores. Left. Went to supermarket, chatted up the checkout guy, went home with a bag of carrots.

Now I was just sitting here and got an "icebreaker" from someone on Yahoo. Her profile is fine, but one woman can send out hundres of these things in a few minutes b/c she's feeling low and wants the attention. She'll have a sea of replies instantly. Sent her an icebreaker back. Let her spend the dime if she's for real, or make that the $24.95.

Tomorrow I will look into joining the gym and make sure to wear my contacts. This weekend I have to work but will schedule some kind of class or something where at least I'll get to talk to people.

 

[Ricky]

Might I ask where you are at now?

I've recently moved to Beantown!

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
I am missing the opportunity to go out for drinks "with the firm" and meet new people. Most of my local friends are either married or AFC.

I also go out alone and have met some interesting people but being naturally shy I am not always up for it.

So I am sort of stuck being a loner with a lot of aquaintances but no regular crowd. This is bumming me out. I am thinking of it now b/c a bunch of college friends are planning a reunion and it reminds me of how different things were then.

Well, start stalking about women with you AFC friends. If anyone one warms up and show interest.. convey DJ concepts. I.e. try to show them "teh other side of the moon". So you will have some support group where you can discuss DJ stuff or at least teach your AFC friends.

Why don't you try speed dating then? Online dating? you will be quite busy writing emails, filtering women out and going on a lot of dates (speed dating). Are you up for that?

And you should not give any s*** about what you college friends think or have. That should not be your point of reference.
If I were in the same town I'd go out with you, I am sure some other guys would do that too: conclusions: look for a wingmen in this forum for example.

 

[iveyleeger]

Ricky, Boston is a great city, but I'm a lot further south.

Have you tried speed dating al77? I think I feel most satisfied meeting women the old fashioned way -- but it's an idea.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
Have you tried speed dating al77? I think I feel most satisfied meeting women the old fashioned way -- but it's an idea.

No, I didn't, but I read a lot about it and do personals for now. They have quite a lot of "requirements" that I do not meet: you got to be a professional (whatever that means... probably have a great job? or just making a lot of money...), you gotta be quite extroverted since you have to talk fast: one date is about 5-8 minutes! You have to be able to open up quickly and present yourself inthose 2-4 minutes when you talk. Plus I got an accent.

If you do lots of approaches.. speed dating may be your thing: much easier, organized, got about 10 dates in one night.
A but pricey though but sure worth it.

You feel more... satisfied? I am really curious: so if you meet a decent woman in not the old fashined way, you will not get much satisfaction???

 

[iveyleeger]

Right. I've met plenty of decent women through friends or family. It's much easier this way. But I can't shake the feeling that they were more interested in "having a boyfriend" -- or for some of them, make that husband -- than actually in me. I didn't really excite them, I just fit the bill.

I see this happen with friends, and since the guys remain AFC they end up getting used by their GF's or wives. They never learn the real skills of managing women. Their women were never really that interested in them, and they are trapped b/c they don't know how to get another one.

I think speed dating was setup for Jewish singles initially, and Jewish women are the absolute worst at this. They are trying to get all the critical data in five minutes: education, income, etc. They are husband hunters supreme. I can't tell you how many people's sisters I've heard talking about the great guy with the BMW they met on J-Date. Note that it's the BMW that makes the guy a keeper. Meantime they were sleeping around with the hot boys.

So that is why I want to be a DJ. I want to meet women who are not out to use me. If they like my style -- without knowing anything more about me -- and they are not just desparate wanna-be baby momma's -- then I will give them a chance.

It is much harder this way, esp. if you are not gregarious or good-looking, but ultimately more satisfying.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger

I see this happen with friends, and since the guys remain AFC they end up getting used by their GF's or wives.

I think speed dating was setup for Jewish singles initially...

You have an interestin defeniton of "old fashioned way" - which is basically the pickup. I thought you refered to "through friends" when saying "old fshioned".
Anyway, I personally like Jewish women's approach - they let you know upfront what they are after. all women want a guy with BMW but not all would have gut to say it. Jewish women more... gutsy? anyway, you have to like them too.. Why? Because they save your time and your money by being open in what they want. You see what she wants and move on... very convenient. I like Jewish approach lol

Seems speed dating is somehting no one tried here..hmm I thought it might be a real good way to meet women and at least learn Dj stuff more extensively.

I agree with you on the last one: if you are not gregarious... well pickup is tough. Are you naturally extroverted or just become more extroerted for pickup sessions?

 

[iveyleeger]

al77 -- If you like Jewish girls: get thee on jdate. I know from friends there is a lot of action there. I would actually like to f*ck a nice Jewish girl, but I don't want to date one, and I am not a one night stand guy, though I've had the opportunity.

Naturally gregarious? Hardly. I was the ultimate loner child. People thought I was a deaf-mute for years. That shyness wore off to some degree, but not with women.

However, in certain settings I can grab the center of attention and get women interested -- or I can be the only guy there and get them by default.

Example 1, I was hoping today that I'd hear back from the Safeway girl. I emailed her, she replied and asked what I was up to this weekend, I mentioned an art gallery I wanted to see, and . . . nothing. So I went anyway, I was the only guy there, there were two women, chatted them both up, starting with the ugly one, then transitioning to the okay one. No #s, but at least practice. It was easy b/c the place was empty except for us.

Example 2, tonight I called a guy who has been saying we should get together forever. But he never answers his phone, and he goes to bed early, so I just hung up on his answering machine. Then I went out to a local piano bar with live music. It is crowded and makes me really uncomfortable, but if I sat at home tonight I would be depressed. Anyway, to make it interesting I wore some strange clothes. I put on a hoodie with navy blue suit pants and white tennis shoes.

So nobody actually noticed at the piano bar b/c of the crowd so then I went walking down the street. Talked to one girl at a vending machine briefly. Then walked past some other cafes. And sure enough, a girl inside starts pointing at me like she's making fun of me. Now, that would have made me feel bad a year ago, but since I purposely dressed weird and was waiting for this I was actually in control here. So I smiled back at her, and did some goofy ****, like "hey, me?" etc. right in the middle of the crowd on the street. It didn't turn into anything b/c she just disappeared back into the crowd in her cafe, probably couldn't think of a response, but being able to draw attention to yourself like that can get women interested in you since most guys are just another cow in the herd. Moo...

So that was my Sat. What about you?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
al77 -- If you like Jewish girls: get thee on jdate.
So that was my Sat. What about you?

Sorry I was not clear. I like Jewish girls in the sense they show me what they want immediately. So I just pass on them.
It is cool, since I dont even have to spend any time on them. See my point?

I think you are doing great, especialy for a guy who is not gegarious. You mentionted you tried personals... how was the transition from online where all women are single and available to real world pickup where just a few women are single without bf? Was it frustrating? What is the statistics of real world pickup?

From what I see you are already quite good at approaching women: you can easily approach and chat with them. You didn't report any kind of difficulties....
What week of the bootcamp are you in?

Clothes. I guess you are right, you can change people's perception drastically just by wearing some unusual clothes. Example: one I weared a simple but not very usual combination: white chinos, black shirt and... a bright red tie. People started "bugging" me: in a store some guy asked me if I worked there...I was waintign for my friends, and some girl hit on me!
It was probably teh first time in many many years... I was so shocked I didn't hear what she said, and didn't even respnd to her.
Conclusion: probably some clothes combination draw attention, a good combination will draw much more attention. So we just have to answer: what is a good clothes combination?

Did you have any homemade props with your clothes? I mean some structured convo about your style? I knew a guy who wore
a watch with some cartoon character as a prop: he would walk to a chick, and start with "Aha, you are laugh at my watch! Blah blah...". He likes cartoon and knew a lot about them.
Anyther example: I wear glasses with greenish&dark purple filter coating on them when I work with computers. Normally I do not wear glasses, but once some girl notice me wearing those glasses..and started "Oh, These are cool.. blah.. blah..." Anyway, most people who saw them started asked what are they for... at least.

You are doing great I think practicing convo skills. I am stuck with 1 week of teh bootcamp: I can ssay Hi.. no big deal. But I cannot even start any small talk. I asked 2 friends to help me with it: showed how they actually talk to girls... that was very impressive. But I am scared\lack confidence to even try talk to to somebody who I don't know. Surprisingly I feel ok on a date, so I use personals so far.

 

[allan976]

OLD AND AFC: SO COMMON

"Most of my local friends are either married or AFC."

--man, can I ever relate. One of my married guy friends is married to an older lady and follows her around like a panting, happy sheep dog. That is, until he loses sight of her. For example, we hung out and took in a movie and then got a bite to eat one recent afternoon. He called his wife after the movie and invited her to eat, even though he knew she slept in every Sunday afternoon, and practically cried when she didn't accept. Crazy. This guy is even starting to literally look like a sheep dog, having gained at least 80 pounds in the last few years and having let his close cut military cut grow out into a Jerry Garcia-esque deadhead nappy mane. Talk about letting yourself go.

I've vowed never to become like this guy. He told me straight up once that he completely lacks confidence and has basically given up on his hopes and dreams. He even longingly told me when we were in the theatre: 'man, see that chick over there with her girlfriends? She's a total film buff. If I weren't married...' How much more pathetic can you get?

***

al77,

Don't give up on the cold approaches. I'm currently having a tough time with it (especially with number close anxiety), but in weeks prior when I was just chatting up the hotties, it was a total adrenaline rush and huge ego boost.

Later,

Allan

 

[iveyleeger]

The sheep dog analogy is hilarious. Maybe you can get him a bowl with his name inscribed on it?

I second the motion on the cold approaches. Major ego boost and the best thing for your confidence.

So I was working tonight and not concentrating much and figured I needed to get out. So I wandered down to the bookstore where I blew my chance last week in order to put bad memories behind me. No women there so I got into an article about grad schools. But then happened to run into a guy from my apt. building I met a year ago at a party where I was making an effort to be extra friendly.

We were both bored so we ended up getting a beer in a bar nearby. This guy is clearly AFC but I'd not likely be in a bar on Thurs. night otherwise so it creates new opportunities. I also noticed that it's a lot easier to talk to women in bars when you have another guy with you b/c the stigma of being a loner is gone. You feel much more relaxed and confident and you can naturally involve them in the conversation.

So the moral of today's story is that making the extra effort to be friendly may have got me a new wingman for weeknights. We'll see.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger

I second the motion on the cold approaches. Major ego boost and the best thing for your confidence.

I also noticed that it's a lot easier to talk to women in bars when you have another guy with you b/c the stigma of being a loner is gone. You feel much more relaxed and confident and you can naturally involve them in the conversation.

So the moral of today's story is that making the extra effort to be friendly may have got me a new wingman for weeknights. We'll see.

Cold pickup boosts confidence?? man, you gotta be kidding..
You do 100 cold approaches, spend a week working hard and what? got nothing in terms of phone\emails?
Not sure it will boost my confidence that much.
Just for skill sake - yes, it will work. But for confidence? hmmm.. would you elaborate why you think it is a boost?

"the stigma of being a loner" exists but it is not huge really. The thing is when you are with sombody else, it boost your confidence and eliminate fears a lot. I believe a good wingman is the best idea ever.

 

[negativefcf]

Originally posted by al77
Cold pickup boosts confidence?? man, you gotta be kidding..
You do 100 cold approaches, spend a week working hard and what? got nothing in terms of phone\emails?
Not sure it will boost my confidence that much.
Just for skill sake - yes, it will work. But for confidence? hmmm.. would you elaborate why you think it is a boost?

"the stigma of being a loner" exists but it is not huge really. The thing is when you are with sombody else, it boost your confidence and eliminate fears a lot. I believe a good wingman is the best idea ever.

Maybe because YOU're the loser. LOL

 

[Alpine]

Originally posted by negativefcf
Maybe because YOU're the loser. LOL

No, if he was a real Loser, he'd be whining about spending $20 on online dating and getting no responses.

 

[iveyleeger]

It's obvious who the losers are., negativefcf. They step right up and identify themselves -- even online. Feel free to make a positive contribution here -- or go troll on the high school forum.

al77 -- Cold approaches boost my confidence b/c I'm in the game instead of sitting on the sidelines. You do it, and you feel the admiration of others wishing they had the balls. It absolutely does not matter what the outcome is. The satisfying part is just making the approach.

I think right now you are just philosophizing -- you need to get out someplace and start playing and you'll see what we're talking about. 100 approaches? Start with just one and tell us how it goes.