My Return, and Gaming a Subversive Alpha Female

[stubbornlights]

I've been away for so long. Which is not to say I haven't been lurking; I have, I love this place, and I miss communicating with the community. Suffice to say, I was locked away in an LTR for years, and now I have escaped it. Back to the game; it feels weird. I hope I'm not too much of an AFC, again.

To the pickup in progress: HB8.5Destroyer.

--

The type: Asserts herself as 'one of the guys,' yet is devastatingly hot. Turns down wbAFC advances kindly, blushing, politely dismissing them.

Turns down AFC advances by AMOG'ing them(!)
She actually amog's dudes. It's creepy. She shuts them down by INCREASING physical contact, punching, hugging, pushing, brushing, like you're becoming her brother or friend. Utterly deflates their own masculinity by outdoing them, making them powerless to pursue her further without looking like a pathetic chump. It's a terrifying sight.
It hasn't happened to me.

SO: How do you guys attempt to game someone like this, a girl who, instead of using standard **** tests, tries to bust out a more friendly dynamic, trying to trick you into the friend zone?

There have been moments when I've managed to break through her barrier a little, and she starts to blush, speak slower, lean in, move in a more feminine manner, lock eyes, and beam that dinnerbowl grin. Then, when it gets a bit heated, she tries to revert back to her usual tricks. At that point, I usually harsh out on her, neg the **** out of her, and ignore her. I make it clear that I don't want to interact on that level.

Oh, yeah. She has a boyfriend, too, complicating things. But we'll see about changing that. (She never brings him up, he's not really threatening.)

What are your tactics for this kind of pickup? I'm guessing that you just go at it like you're dealing with an alpha female, but the whole one-of-the-guys, tomboyish thing going on confuses me a little. I'd love to hear from you, all you bold generals.

The war is back on, for me, and I'm looking forward to fighting side by side with you all, again.

 

[stubbornlights]

Thanks, Wolf. I've been trying to do a lot of that stuff.

We kicked it for a few hours one day and some attraction developed. HOWEVER, I think she's resisting it, now. She's been throwing congruence and **** tests at me, non-stop. I'm not used to that level of resistance/testing, I'm having to learn how to deal with that on the fly. Most girls are much easier for me to pull, but hey, I like a challenge. This is fun.

SOME INTERACTIONS:
She nonchalantly gets in my space at work, practically pushes me aside, grabs stuff, and then leaves, saying "This is me invading your personal space." Effing flabbergasted. I didn't know what to do/say, so I ignored her behaviour and didn't respond.

Later, she invaded, again. I turned around and said, "Let's play a game"
"Oh I love games!"
"It's called, 'get the eff out of here.'
"Oh I don't like that game."
"But you're the only way playing it."
"No I'm not" (Runs away without acknowledging defeat)

Later, I walked up and invaded HER space, stood right in front of her when she was reading something.
"Guess what this is?"
"What?"
"This is me invading your private space." (****y grin)
"Oh I didn't even notice."
I didn't respond, I just turned and started to leave.
She continues, "Probably because girls like me don't have private space."
I play the ***** card. "You're right, you're public property."
She breaks out laughing. I shudder in disgust, she laughs more, I walk away unimpressed.

A few odd things I've noticed change in her behaviour. She is EXTREMELY loud and obnoxious. She'll yell, "OUT OF MY WAY" when she's walking past you, clearly trying to provoke a response, or to get you to crack and lose your dominance. Most of the time, I either harsh out on her even worse, or ignore her. What would you guys do to get her to ease up on the obnoxious bull****?

Oh, and the slow, intimate talk - not too much of that anymore. Trying to figure out how to deal with her next, I just ignore her, or get cold and call her on her ****: "You're a buzzkill, quit being retarded." It seems to effect her, she starts to qualify herself, but she's still 'on guard'.

I worry that if the tone of our interactions continues to be negative like this, it will be harder to pull things around? I'm hesitant to get too playful again, I don't want her to take that as an indicator of interest on my behalf. She's in full AMOG mode, which is strange to me - it's like sarging, ughhhh, a guy.

Should I keep my current frame: I'm cold and unreactive because I'm not interested in the way she's acting, and I reward her with friendliness when she drops the brazen facade?
Or should I try to make the dynamic more friendly and loose, again?

From a theoretical standpoint, this is kindof an interesting play.

 

[stubbornlights]

(sorry, double post)

 

[MisterMcGee]

Don't play her game. Her game is for fun and bull****ting purposes only. Do what you were doing before, don't play along or try to shoot her **** back at her, simply dismiss it. If you 'play along', even 'well', you won't get any intimate time with her cause she'll be having too much fun doing silly friendly ****y stuff with you.

 

[alnite]

I have a friend who is just like you described. She is very active and fun, and she'd do things that normal people would think twice of doing. She would wrestle guys and stuff, and actually try to tackle them down. If you win, no hard feelings, she'd challenge you again next time. If you lose, she'll ridicule you for losing to a female, but she wouldn't mind if you suddenly tackle her again for a rematch.

She, however, does not consider all of those physical contacts as flirting or an attempt to AMOG (I think AMOG is lame). Just a fun thing to do. I think you have run into the same type of girl, here

edit:
My piece of advice. Her idea of romance is not a fine dining at a hilltop restaurant, but rather camping and punching and piggyback riding and wrestling. If you like girls with this type of personality, and if you do really want to sleep with her and date her, then you have to keep up with her emotions. In the inside, she's just as fragile as any other girls. She's hiding her emotions using her actions. From the conversations above, it seems like she really wants you, and all of those obnoxious and loud stuff she's said and done is just her way of expressing herself. What I'd do when you invaded her personal space, I'd say

"This is me invading your personal space"
then kiss her, right there in the office.

 

[MisterMcGee]

"
"This is me invading your personal space"
then kiss her, right there in the office
"

Golden

 

[jinda007]

MisterMcgee.....are you sure you won't get a wild slap for that? b-)

 

[stubbornlights]

"
"This is me invading your personal space"
then kiss her, right there in the office
"

Golden

So good. Hadn't even entered my mind. With somebody else, sure, but the bf thing makes me hesitant. Even though it shouldn't; he's a chump. But other coworkers know him too, so it's just a loaded circumstance, in general.

Her idea of romance is not a fine dining at a hilltop restaurant, but rather camping and punching and piggyback riding and wrestling. If you like girls with this type of personality, and if you do really want to sleep with her and date her, then you have to keep up with her emotions. In the inside, she's just as fragile as any other girls. She's hiding her emotions using her actions.

Exactly what I thought! Hiding emotions using action. That's definitely the vibe; fragile self obscured by a distant facade. And I'm definitely into girls with that personality; I think punching and camping is so much more interesting than fine dining. Not to suggest that this is oneitis or anything. At work, and outside of work, she sees me hitting on other girls all the time. But she's more interesting. Not as hot as some others I hang around, but much more interesting.

You say, 'keep up with her emotions'. It seems like you and MisterMcGee have different opinions on the matter; he suggests avoiding her games, and you suggest, well, maybe you partly agree with MisterMcGee:
From what I understand, you interpret her behavior as just her everyday demeanor, the nature of her personality, and I guess if you'd recommend grabbing her and making out with her at work, then it's a play to her inner, vulnerable emotions that you're endorsing, and not getting wrapped up in her games? Is that the consensus?

'Keeping up with her emotions' = understanding the real emotions hidden below her other actions, and responding in a way that addresses them, and NOT the superficial behavior that conceals them?

Thanks so much guys.

 

[stubbornlights]

EFF. Absolute Madness.
Just returned from a crazy party, on a Monday night of all nights. It's like, 4:50AM here. So much to write, massive FR, so consider this a placeholder. A reminder for me to finish something that should be finished.

HBDestroyer was there. Massive kino.
It was absurd. I was there basically just to mess with her, but I wound up massively in state, so I wound up bouncing around the party a lot. I got hit on really aggressively by three other girls, and I went with it, developed crazy rapport, and had them all following me, giving me crazy kino, loads of compliments, IOI's of all kinds. It never gets tiring to have girls hitting on YOU, calling YOU hot, attractive, asking you out.

After vibing so easily with everyone at the party, and just generally asserting myself as the friendly, fun guy, interacting with HBDestroyer became really easy. All of her own friends had socially proofed me, and were hitting on me! I threw in tons of takeaways, IOI's, IOD's, forced her to qualify herself, got her friends to join in in negging her. Man, if nothing else, she's incredibly bothered now. The SHB of the party, the alpha female, actually said "She loves you." Funny. The last thing she said to me before I left was, "I hate you." I replied with, "the feeling is mutual," and left.

I think that now, if I'm deliberate and clever about it, it'll be totally on, it'll be totally closed; either that, or I'll mess this up so horrifically that I'll have no idea what happened. I have to find a way to gracefully transition from "does he like me, why does he dislike me so much, I like him," to some conscious mutual attraction. Too swift a shift, and you've lost. Maybe I can keep on with this vague, pretend loathing for her right up until the last moment, scoop her up in my arms or whatever.

Why am I always so uncertain about PU's where the girl I'm gaming is actually of some interest to me? The boring, superficial chicks are a breeze; it's the interesting ones that throw me off.

Sorry if this is rambling, or whatever. I still have a buzz on. I promise a more detailed field report sometime tomorrow. What a ridiculous night.

 

[intheRed]

Sounds like a successful night, be sure to update us later on how it turns out playa

 

[alnite]

'Keeping up with her emotions' = understanding the real emotions hidden below her other actions, and responding in a way that addresses them, and NOT the superficial behavior that conceals them?

Thanks so much guys.

Yes, that's what I meant. In case of my friend, I have heard from other girl friends of mine talking about her. Even though she's a total guy in her actions, she's still a girl. My friends would be like "Yeah, her! She's actually bla bla (insert girl stuff here)". So I was surprised that this tomboy actually had all personalities and traits of a girl.

In any case, don't overanalyze her too much. Still treat her like any other girl.

 

[stubbornlights]

FR still in the works; things have become really complicated, and I have to find a way to condense, to simplify, so it's not a pain to read. In the meantime, I was wondering what you guys think of my idea for escalation.

RECAP:

Later, I walked up and invaded HER space, stood right in front of her when she was reading something.
"Guess what this is?"
"What?"
"This is me invading your private space." (****y grin)
"Oh I didn't even notice."
I didn't respond, I just turned and started to leave.
She continues, "Probably because girls like me don't have private space."

IDEA:
At the next party or event/whatever, get into a conversation, maybe isolate, but I don't think it's that important, unless she is self-conscious. It begins innocently enough.
"Want to play a game?"
(Answer is always yes. Fiendish, playful one she is. She must always win.)
"Ok, well, remember how you told me you don't have private space? I'm going to prove that you do. And I guarantee, no matter what, in this game, I will win. Give me your hands. I'm going to test you, and the moment you break, say stop."
I take her hands, squeeze to gauge for reciprocated squeeze, kino, IOI, all that stuff. Push her away from me, until we're an arms length apart, standing face to face.
"How about now?"
"Fine."
Move forward a step. Keep asking the question, as the space between us grows smaller. Place my hands on her hips, pull her tight, and again,
"How about now?"
Hands wrapped around her head, fingers in her hair, I bring my face inches from hers.
"How about now?" Moment of truth. She snaps and gives up, and I can simply laugh and boast, "I win! You do have private space!" Or, she cannot concede a loss, and says "fine."
Then, I just start to makeout with her.
Afterwards, I just smile and boast, " I win."

It seems foolproof to me. It's harmless, it's an advance under the guise of a game; the game being important because 1)It makes the action seem casual, almost friendly, and therefore tolerable in the eyes of coworkers, and 2)any rejection is easily reframed as a 'win' within the context of the game, sparing me the awkward consequences that might otherwise arise from going in for a makeout with a coworker that goes awry and is denied for whatever reason. I think it could make for an incredibly hot, seductive moment.

Thoughts? Endorsements or Cautions?

 

[Tenzen]

its risky, but whatever there are tons of fish in the sea. So just go for it, make sure you get that kiss, i would just kiss her instead of boasting when shes very close. Everything after that for good or for worse will follow so be prepared.

 

[stubbornlights]

FR: Dance Party, and thoughts on DJ Ethics

Yesterday, I went to a huge party with my coworkers. HB attended, though paid very little attention to me for the first two hours; I returned the same indifference. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, when I wandered across the dance floor, she came up and tore off my shirt aggressively and we started to dance in a f**ked-up way.

My coworkers, not expecting to see such debauchery, started to cheer and laugh. As our dancing subsided, instead of parting and leaving the dancefloor, we moved closer, in each others arms, with me still shirtless, and we starting talking in that dancefloor, face-to-face pillowtalk kindof way. All the intimacy you can get without making out. Her hair kept getting in my mouth. I would have k-closed her right there, but I was foolish and was concerned about our social circle; anti-slut defense? Nobody from work, or any of our friends (that I know of), know anything about the tension between us.

So, while she's really into me, and we're talking about how she really wants to hear what I think of her, I suggest that later we go talk in a corner, and I walk off. Ughh, in retrospect, what a mistake. I should have forced the isolation immediately. I realized it. So, five minutes later, I went to try to pull her away, but other friends unknowingly ****blocked it, and interrupted us. She went with them. One friend walks up to me, when I'm alone at the bar, and chastises: "Just kiss her already!"

Damn. Mistake. It was that obvious. Should've done it on the dancefloor, and then should've isolated immediately. Now I'm stuck in the frame of waiting on HER. I didn't push it, but I reminded her off it when I'd walk past her and her friends:
"Later, it's you and me, don't forget."

An hour later, without saying goodbye, she put on her coat and went to leave. I confronted her, drunk unfortunately, and asked why the eff she was leaving, why she was flaking out. She seemed ruffled, said she was "too drunk to be any use talking to anyone." I reacted, seeming disappointed. She countered, almost annoyed "what, did we have a date or something?" I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

SO DJ's! I know this has to be salvageable, even though I might have messed up and appeared a little bit outcome-defendant and needy at the end. How would you recommend acting the next time we see each other? It's on, it has to be.

As for my ethics question, after she left, social intricacies started to unfold. Turns out two of my friends have been into her for a year, and she's been leading them on. They're both AFC's, and were kindof upset when they saw us on the dancefloor. I've never been after a girl before that any friend of mine has been after, too. Both expressed some kind of feeling of 'unfairness;' they've been after her for so long, I'm a bit of a **** for swooping in out of nowhere, not respecting their efforts.

I know that the best way to ignite attraction in her now is to distinguish myself from her chump orbiters. All I would have to do is tool with my friends a little to have her chasing me. Ie: Next time I see her, suggest that her and my friend would make a cute couple, she should get together with him, he's so utterly in love with her his feelings overwhelm him. Boom, he appears needy and infatuated, and I'm aloof and playful, and I'm the only one on her mind. Her interactions with my two friends immediately become reframed as needy guy desperately clawing for the girl.

But shutting down my own friends, to get with a girl? A girl my friends want, too? How would you guys play this?

 

[sodbuster]

If they have had their chances and have been shut down, they need to quit living the fantasy. You may need to tell them that,then take her. As aggressive as she has been,if you had been the male equivalent,you'd be laid by now.

 

[MisterMcGee]

youre not playing it right. you kinda shut her down and didn;t take charge and be the man on the dancefloor. if you want to stand out from your afc friends, be bold and clear and not reactionary.
Don't make your friends look bad for the sake of reframing yourself, how selfish and assy. they aren't a threat

 

[stubbornlights]

I know, McGee.
Reactionary is the antithesis of all that is donjuan. But, in my drunken state, I thought it more prudent to be dismayed by flakiness than to let it go unnoticed. Big mistake.

I don't want to make my friends look bad. That's the last thing that I want to do. But I have no idea what they'd do to get me out of the picture; they're utterly 'in love', and it hurts to see them in such dismay, day after day, as they proceed and advance senselessly only to be lightly rejected. There's the thought of putting them out of their misery, but even that is too repulsive to stomach. I haven't tooled them, or done anything to betray our friendships. I'm entertaining all possibilities, out of openness of mind, just to figure out how to deal with this. I love them dearly, even though they're utterly clueless. I don't want to hurt them.

And the next interaction, whenever it happens, is likely to be during the day, not at another party. This day game, night game oscillation is messing with me; certain aspects of each, and the events of night and of day, easily transfer, but others feel taboo, not to be spoken of, and so you start from step one in a way, each time. What would you say, if anything, during the day to dismiss and diffuse whatever negative impressions I made from my drunken night confrontation? Pretend it never happened?

Or laugh it off, and say, "That was pretty funny when I got angry at you for leaving. I felt bad for you. I decided it was give HB a chance night, and you left before your hearing."

Thanks, Sodbuster and McGee

 

[Tenzen]

amazing how a woman did that you and you didn't take control. Its salvageable true. First dont worry about your friends, she chose you, tell them that. The way she went up to you on the dance floor well thats just showing you how she wants to be treated, you got one chance take it. Grab ahold of her and kiss her already. Be a man take charge! Was she even worried about what the coworkers would say when she went up to you and took off your shirt? hell no man. Your somehow terrified of your lil coworkers opinions yet she isn't. Somethings not right there, kiss her at work in front of everybody who cares man damn....

 

[TheRealSupreme]

1.The girl is a attention ho. She uses guys to get attention. It makes her feel good to conquer and get men riled up over her. She has conquered you now also because of your obvious desperation. Women KNOW when your into them. You attract lots of attention so your a prime sucker.

So basically you have been blowing her head up and making HER feel good! You have been a tool like your other two foolish friends.

2. I don't believe in going after other men's women. Here in cali fools who do this are always getting shot. Just 2 weeks ago another symp shot up his ex and the new boyfriend, now he is in jail. It's stupid to risk your life over a peace of arse.

3. This is the thing with you fella is that your playing yourself. You need to develop more control and to quit letting your ego run you like a one of moses's hebrew slaves. Your so caught up in this ego that you can't even see it. It's made you into a trick instead of a pimp.

No offense bro just trying to steer you in the right direction.

Think about it. With all of the available women who are into you, you spin your wheels over a girl with a boyfriend. And if she did succumb eventually that would make her a skank ho. Would you trust her not to do it to you? I surely wouldn't. And I would treat her like shyt afterwards. Cause women who do that, that is all they deserve.

Does it sound like I have been hurt? Yes. have I. No. I have been the one in your position. I once was doing a rich man's wife and my life came to $1,000.00 that it took to hire someone to kill me. As I posted on this forum many years ago. And the mutha frucka found me. He lived in Los Angeles. I live in Sacramento. He was able to even get my email address and phone number cause he owned a cell company.

Was my life worth that piece of arse...I don't think so. Back when you were last on here there were folks who would of done it for much less.

Am I blowing your situation out of proportion? Maybe. But you never know. Are you willing to risk it for the ego boost that your craving?

It sounds like your last girl did something to you and now your ego needs you to prove that your still attractive and can get tail.

Pop psychology? Yes it is. And?

 

[Someone Much cooler]

I wouldnt kiss her at work that could end you up in human resources signing papers. Sexual Harrasment. I would do something like that when we we all chilling at the house...