My Official business thread - Humble beginnings

[synergy1]

I have had an idea for years that has never quite gone away. Like most things, It started out as a joke. However as the world has been proving with the advent of online social media, the idea began to take shape. Now I think I have something that would work. This thread not only serves to inspire others, but solicit feedback on aspects that I am missing.

The "problem" is as follows - I have never made any web based product before. However as I started looking at R programming, I realized that its all easily learnable and the capabilities are nothing short of amazing. While I won't be spilling my idea in public, Just know that it leverages the aspects of social media that already exist and will not seek to replace any part of them , but merely supplement them.

Once upon a time ago, I posted on AAAgent's similar thread that the best idea is to teach yourself if you can't get anyone to do it. This is exactly what I will be doing. I already have programming experience, and it comes naturally.

What needs to be learned

1- HTML and CSS - This has been complete
2- Java Script and all the required Libraries
3- A database - NOSQL vis MANGO DB to start
4- Lunuix - bash, shell scripting
5- Hosting a web site, security.
6- Version control

What needs to be done
1- Build the Website - A fully responsive website using all HTML5 and CSS3 have to offer.
2- Build the front end - I need to bring the product to life. I will be using the javascript language, as well as all the applicable libraries (jQuery, angular JS etc).
3- Build back end frame work - Either JSnode, or ruby/rails to get this done. Will need to get the DB up and running to store all the data.
4- Hosting the server
5- Performing required web scraping of data - This will require the skills outlined in the other post I made. Being able to scrape facebook, instagram, twitter for whatever data I can get will be crucial.

As of today, the front end of the websites design is complete. It is fully responsive and can be viewed on desktops, phones or PCs. It took about 300 hours , but I finally got it to a point where it looks somewhat legit. Take note the idea is not to create a final product, but a MVP ( minimum viable product). It doesn't have all the best utilization of HTML and CSS , but the javascript part will make the current setup more rich and user friendly.

Today's plan is to teach myself GIT version control and GITHUB. This requires some bash shell programming which sucks. But its robust and works once you stick with it. Likely Friday or saturday, I plan to start jumping into Javascript to start writing the front end programming part. This will include forms and other features as I find them. Please advise: Anyone who knows of good online resources to learn Javascript would be helpful. I have a ton, but am always welcoming new ones to help with the quest.

Thanks for listening. I hope everyone has a great new years eve!

 

[SeymourCake]

http://jsbin.com/ is good for testing out javascript
http://quirksmode.org is good for finding out cross browser tricks and bugs regarding regular javascript

And as for learning regular JS you'll want to invest in both Javascript:The Good Parts and Scerets of a Javascript Ninja.

Now as for frameworks, because you'll want to learn at least two or three of them:
jquery.jquery ui
mootools
and prototype are the main three frameworks out there. There are others as well so you might want to do some digging and figure out which one is best for you.

Codecademy also has a good lesson on JS...Try that.

 

[synergy1]

the Code Academy track is what I plan to start on just to get practice with the JS structure - loops, classes, objects etc.

Thanks for the other resources tho! I'll post additional as I find it since someone else might also find it useful down the road.

 

[Eph]

YouTube is your best friend for any language that isn't C or C++. When I started programming, I used W3schools a lot, but now whenever I need to learn a new method, or how to do something in a particular language I use YouTube. Some channels you might wanna check out are "TheNewBoston", and Adam Khoury (FlashBuilding), and Derek Banas.

Figure out what exactly you want to do, because a lot of JS frameworks are incompatible with each other. So, you'll either need to learn vanilla JS and build it yourself (which I'd recommend anyway), find frameworks that work with each other, or find a single framework that does everything you need.

For the back-end, it really depends on your needs. Node.js is good for programs that need to be real-time, but I'd recommend PHP since it works amazingly with JavaScript if you don't need real-time features and want something easy to learn. Anyway, wish you the best with your new business!

 

[Moroder]

but I'd recommend PHP

Me too. It's been years since I've been coding, but the PHP community, manuals and support were the best I've ever seen for any programming language. Plus, the LAMP combo (Linux, Apache, MySQL) is very well documented and proven to work out of the box ... well, most of the times anyway.
All the best for your project! Sounds like a helluva thing, but also sounds like you'll handle this fine.

 

[synergy1]

I have not yet decided on a stack to use going forward. Linux is probably going to happen once I need to fun bash scripts to run programs, and set up my server. For now, I am contemplating ruby/ rails for back end, and a nosql db like mango. But I will be giving everything people post here a good look because it seems like you guys know your stuff. And a shout out to w3 schools - sample coding where you can immediatly see results is amazing for anyone who is just getting started. What I have finished thus far is credited to that web site and being able to mess around with the code and see what happens.

Other notables for those who are also pursuing the same path: JSfiddle ( You can see your code), and stack overflow ( every question you can imagine).

Question: Version control. Does anyone have a good methodology to use git version control on large quantities of files - e.g HTML and CSS files for the front end? I want to commit the first build of my front end, but its in a few directories, and consists of many files.

Thanks in advance!

 

[synergy1]

Here is the cycle I have adapted for this project:

Do --> Learn --> revise -->Learn

In the world of programming, there is so much knowledge that it is overwhelming. I have a background doing programming and learning a new language is always daunting. For Javascript, I have been adapting this principal. I started out by making an an interactive resume and adjusting JSON ( javascript objects) to populate the resume and edit the page. I went back to learning the syntax to making objects, and found I was still weak. Re learned it, and started learning a new way to add methods to objects via prototypical inheritance. As it turns out, relearning how to do objects lead me down a path to learn a very important aspect of Object oriented programming. This crucial aspect would have been overlooked simply by continuing to do the "wrong thing". Hereafter, I plan on continuing to work on creating the new objects and finding weak areas in my knowledge that need reinforcement.

What I am getting at is that you can not only learn, or only "do" in a vacuum. The two must be a continual process, especially when taking on something as wide ranging as programming. It sounds obvious , but the actual application takes a conscience effort.

I strongly advocate this process to anyone else pursuing a similar endeavor. I truly believe it will result in lasting success.

cheers.

 

[synergy1]

Another update:

The programming level has stepped up in difficulty. Many professionals have had time to learn about Vanilla JavaScript, I have adapted frameworks ( as a kind poster suggested). Thus, I do not have to "worry" about some of the same problems that plague Vanilla programmers (like fallbacks, and browser compatibility issues). While this is an immediate advantage, not understanding what is in the "black box" can be a handicap as well. In my pursuit of building something great, I take the time to understand *what* is going on, rather than glossing over it. It is not to say that I waste time pondering every electron, and every bit that goes into this stuff.

Time will be the ultimate factor in determining success. There simply is no shortcut. I eat live and breathe this every day. Unfortunately, this is taking a slight toll on my social life as I opt to work on my idea more than take a friday night off to socialize with friends. This area will be something that needs improvement, as a social life and networking are more important than simply sitting around working on an idea.

I have attended local entrepreneurial meet up groups in the area, but the community is small here. Having talking with some seasoned start-up folk, it seems money is not here like it is out west - especially for ideas like mine. The culture doesn't seem to be a good fit for start ups either. That said, its cool to meet some other like minded people with some ideas. In regards to ideas- mine certainly takes the cake for money odd/interesting. I get a mixed reaction, but ultimately it gets some incredulous laughs and some interest. But than again, I neither have a product, nor am I good sales man

Lastly, I am still going to the gym and playing sports. Neglecting health is a huge mistake on the path to starting a business and building something.

Hope everyone has a great week!

 

[AAAgent]

outside of programming, i think it's very important to consider monetization methods.

how are you going to make money? A lot of the businesses that revolve around big data hoping to collect data and later sell it are coming across issues of being able to sustain their business long enough to reach that point. Keep doing what you're doing if you're making progress but keep in mind you want to build a revenue stream and have it stream in steadily asap.

I follow so many bloggers/trend forecasters/journalists who spent many years building a reputation and reporting/writing. Many of these have now turned to subscription based businesses and are making tons of money. Anyways keep up the great work and starting your business is always a phenomenal experience. Although I ultimately did not launch, I did learn a great deal.

The trick to being good salesmen imo is passion, and not given up. That is pretty much the trick to anything actually.

 

[synergy1]

Yo man. Good question. The plan is as follows:

Raising capital : If i need to raise capital, I will first start with friends/family and offer up shares of the business as it exists. I would only raise capital if I need it to launch my product into the marketplace and the infusion of capital is all the product needs in order to catch fire. In other words, there has to be enough there for an infusion to be a catalyst for quick growth. As I stand right now, there is no need for this

Monetization : My product will adapt existing models. It will be free to start, and use but contain extras at low costs in order to add to the experience. An example would be a repetitive feature that is free up to a certain point, than a low cost option thereafter. Next, I anticipate further incentive outside of the extras to drive interest in activity of my experience. That said, to make this happen I will likely need a law-oriented co founder to deal with that as I am currently up to my neck in the technical stuff ( in a good way).

For now, I can bootstrap the entire development of an alpha build. This includes hardware, and deployment. Cash flow from my job with my current living situation is more than sufficient. This may change in due time.

 

[Eph]

Another update:

The programming level has stepped up in difficulty. Many professionals have had time to learn about Vanilla JavaScript, I have adapted frameworks ( as a kind poster suggested). Thus, I do not have to "worry" about some of the same problems that plague Vanilla programmers (like fallbacks, and browser compatibility issues). While this is an immediate advantage, not understanding what is in the "black box" can be a handicap as well. In my pursuit of building something great, I take the time to understand *what* is going on, rather than glossing over it. It is not to say that I waste time pondering every electron, and every bit that goes into this stuff.

Time will be the ultimate factor in determining success. There simply is no shortcut. I eat live and breathe this every day. Unfortunately, this is taking a slight toll on my social life as I opt to work on my idea more than take a friday night off to socialize with friends. This area will be something that needs improvement, as a social life and networking are more important than simply sitting around working on an idea.

I have attended local entrepreneurial meet up groups in the area, but the community is small here. Having talking with some seasoned start-up folk, it seems money is not here like it is out west - especially for ideas like mine. The culture doesn't seem to be a good fit for start ups either. That said, its cool to meet some other like minded people with some ideas. In regards to ideas- mine certainly takes the cake for money odd/interesting. I get a mixed reaction, but ultimately it gets some incredulous laughs and some interest. But than again, I neither have a product, nor am I good sales man

Lastly, I am still going to the gym and playing sports. Neglecting health is a huge mistake on the path to starting a business and building something.

Hope everyone has a great week!

The situation has changed dramatically in regards to vanilla JavaScript. We haven't needed to worry about fallbacks and inconsistencies in browsers for several years now. Everything is much more standardized than it was in the hey-day of Internet Explorer. Glad to see you're still keeping busy with this, and staying in shape to boot. One thing you need to realize though, is the beauty of an web-based business. I'm not entirely sure what your business model is, or what you meant by "the money is not here", but the Internet is what I like to call the current (and future) generation's gold mine. The gold is all around you, you just need to find it.

I just started work on an idea that I've had for a while now a few weeks ago myself. Luckily, I get to reuse a lot of code I used for my last project. Anyway, things you should keep in mind are: this will eventually consume your life. You won't have nearly as much free time, so you'll have a choice to make on how to use that time. Going to the gym, or hanging out with friends. The other thing is that (again, I don't know what your business model is) you should have goals written down. What features are acceptable for the initial launch? You'll come up with more and more as time goes on, but delaying launch indefinitely so you can have every feature under the sun will kill your business. When do you want the website done by? I don't know what it is you're doing, but always remember someone else may get the same idea, so you want to get it on the market as soon as possible. Good luck, and keep us updated.

 

[synergy1]

As someone with no software development, it is hard to know what features to include for milestones. Basically I am learning as I go along. For example, I learned HTML/CSS/Bootstrap and build a front end. Now with Javascript, I am slowly programming parts of the browser as practice to use the concepts I have learned. Recently , I have done client side validation on some forms. It isn't perfect, but its "functional" as I envision an MVP to be.

However, it is getting difficult and I can feel the burnout starting to set in. My dating life isn't great, and an 8 hour work day coupled with a 5 hour code night poses challenges when considering I have more or less done this since the end of august.

But part of it is that learning is something I would rather not being doing - contributing towards the project is paramount. However, the learning curve for programming is steep so patience is certainly a challenge. That said, I enjoy the rewards of understanding how this stuff works now. However, there is still so much yet to come. Tonight ,I will be working on several object constructor patterns and attempting to use inheritance to create objects that I intend to use for the site. This goes along the same theme of learning and working on the product simultaneously.

After a week or two of practicing some JS, I will be moving to the server side and setting up a node.js server with a DB. This will be, again, to get practice and set something up so I can use it. After this, it will be learning some more frameworks, and working towards more of a model view controller so I can keep each element separate. What this entails ,I do not yet know. However, the very logic resonates with me after having mixed scripts/html together and finding it suboptimal...

this will eventually consume your life.

"this" already consumes my life, if you catch my drift! But seriously, part of me enjoys the shear challenge of creating this skillset. I guess my question to you is : how long would it take to be able to develop this skillset so that I could freelance and earn a living doing this? By skillset, I mean the following: Javascript, HTML, CSS, and various frameworks ( bootstrap, jQuery, Angular, Node, express etc). While the long term goal is to launch my own product in due time, the more immediate future would be better spent using these skills in practice..

 

[Eph]

It's good you're getting that practice in, but for the final product, make sure you've got server-side validation in place. You can have both, but only using client-side validation is a security hazard (usually not a big one, but still). You can disable javascript, and if someone does that, validation goes with it.

I guess my question to you is : how long would it take to be able to develop this skillset so that I could freelance and earn a living doing this? By skillset, I mean the following: Javascript, HTML, CSS, and various frameworks ( bootstrap, jQuery, Angular, Node, express etc). While the long term goal is to launch my own product in due time, the more immediate future would be better spent using these skills in practice..

Programming is a never-ending learning process. Something I'm sure you've come to realize at this point. Honestly, I can't say how long it would take you to be able to use your new found skills. You may already be able to.

Design (using CSS and HTML) is pretty simple for some people. I'm not one of those people. I've been developing various things for 6 years now and I'm just now starting to create decent designs. If you're good with designing things, that may be something to look into.

Programming-wise, again, you may already be able to find something to work on (job-wise). With Javascript, alone, there are plenty of jobs for you to do (even simple ones). However, I have noticed most of the JS work involves knowledge of some kind of framework. So, you're on the right track learning a few.

Honestly, I'd say once you have a solid grasp of the basics and maybe start getting into heavier topics (abstraction, OOP, inheritance, etc), you can start freelancing. Like with everything else we preach here on SS, you have to get outside of your comfort-zone and improve. When you're just getting start programming, everything will seem too difficult for you to do, but you just have to break it down into simple logical steps and figure out how you can do it. In the end, it's up to you to decide when you want to start freelancing.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind a lot of people from around the world freelance as well for prices you would find insane. Earning a living (depending on your definition of the word) may take a while. You'll need time to build a portfolio before you can start charging higher prices. It may also pay better if you stay off of freelance websites, and work locally instead.

 

[synergy1]

The abstract stuff has been as challenging to grasp as any of the engineering classwork I took in college. That said, I think after a bunch of practice and some nights to sleep on it, its all starting to come together. OOP seems to be the heart of how to make JS work, and give a basis for "best practices". This is the part that could be a black box that I feel extra time is necessary to learn.

Glad to hear frameworks are the way to go. I am tackling a bunch of frameworks to build my project. I wasn't planning on going full "freelance" for sometime. At which, I plan on relocating to another part of the country and pursuing co-founders for a start up while freelancing and earning money. Its a rather unusual plan, but right now I am putting away good money at my current job.

better if you stay off of freelance website

I was thinking the same thing. I want to relocate and work locally with clients. Face-to-face. I want to have more a business aspect to it than simply build a product and move on. But having never done that, Its hard to say what direction it will go in.

Thanks again for the advice/ feedback!

 

[synergy1]

A quick update: I am learning a lot of backend stuff that is significantly more difficult than the front end material was. Progress is slow but steady. The lack of progress on the final product is something on my mind, but I am being patient and sticking to doing this right and not quickly.

A better balance might be needed to avoid any burnout. I have not been on a date in some time, and my social life is much less frequent these days. I basically do work, gym, and this 6 out of 7 days of the week. Lately I have utterly lacked confidence to go on a date and can't even get one. Obviously these are easy struggles of someone who is trying to forge out on their own - but they are struggles none the less. rome won't burn down, but I would like to hear others thoughts on maintaining a good balance here, especially for dating.

On the bright side, in 6 months time, I should have marketable enough skills to free lance and maybe even make a living at it. In one year, it will be a certainty. The quest continues!

 

[tharam04]

You're doing something similar to what a buddy of mine did. He just dove right in to it, reached out to folks that he knew in the industry to learn best practices and tricks and tips. In about a 3-4 year span, he managed to develop enough skill on top of running a business (therefore forcing him to learn) that he eventually got hired by Corporate America in the IT field.

From the posts before mine, I believe that you are headed in the right direction.

 

[synergy1]

You're doing something similar to what a buddy of mine did. He just dove right in to it, reached out to folks that he knew in the industry to learn best practices and tricks and tips. In about a 3-4 year span, he managed to develop enough skill on top of running a business (therefore forcing him to learn) that he eventually got hired by Corporate America in the IT field.

From the posts before mine, I believe that you are headed in the right direction.

Thanks man. Some days the going is tough, and putting the time into this vs. other things ( dating, socializing) can be taxing. Life really is a result of what you put into it, and right now my skillset is broadening greatly but as for social life/ dating...its set back a bit.

As for actual progress, I have managed to muddle through the technologies needed and understand them on a fundamental level. There is an online course that I will be enrolling in that will take about 6 months to complete. The course seems legit ( as in depth as hack reactor, but much less costly). The program will involve building a real world application, as well as create several for our own portfolio. In 6 months time, i'll have stuff to show off.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind a lot of people from around the world freelance as well for prices you would find insane. Earning a living (depending on your definition of the word) may take a while. You'll need time to build a portfolio before you can start charging higher prices. It may also pay better if you stay off of freelance websites, and work locally instead.

Yup, thats the idea. I already have a potential client lined up. He's been doing writing and wants to sell add space, so I told him that in time I will be able to build something for them. More important than money is to get my name out there and produce a good product.

Here is the action plan:

April

Finish Online Portfolio - Basically this has my background and will serve as my template to keep applying skills and subsequently improve. Built pretty much from scratch.

MongoDB online class - Get better noSQL databases and framworks.

Object oriented programming/ JS patterns - Learn the "theory" behind programming. Objects, inheritance, scopes, all the patterns, etc.

Node - continue to learn about the backed, specifically nodeJS which is rapidly becoming popular in the web dev community.

Every day/ week/ month has a goal to achieve. There are only so many hours in a day. It seems to be working, but I think that the online classes will provide a more structured approach.

 

[AlanAlan]

I read out your interesting and informative post. It is really great ideas. Sure will be referrence long into the future.

 

[synergy1]

Lately I have been approaching burnout between the repetitions of work, working out, and more work with very little reprieve in the ways of women, vacation, or fun. It is not easy. Worst, I am not even sure if I am learning the material sufficiently to actually make anything unique on my own.

That said,

...I am pivoting from my original idea with hopes to pursue it later. My new idea was actually something I worked on back in 2009 but it was much simpler. Put another way, this will be the framework for the original idea that launched this thread, but be a real "product" that I will use. I have mentioned it to a regular contributor to http://seekingalpha.com/ and he loves the idea and wants it.

its really easy to make something someone else wants when I am already at the front of the line for wanting to use it.

Will I be reinventing the wheel? No. Will I provide better more accurate calculations than some of these analysts? Nope. Will the content delivery be unique, accessible and useful to investors? **** yes.

Here is the problem - most people want to be like Warren Buffet but miss the mark in their attempts to do what he does. Most value investors (like http://www.oldschoolvalue.com/) turn it into one huge numbers game, which it is not. Type in value investing software into google and its a bunch of math stock pickers, screeners, back testers etc. Buffet made billions and never used a computer to do it.

I won't pretend to be able to capture how the greats like Fisher, Seth Klarman, Buffet, and Brandes do it. But my idea, sufficiently separates from the rest of the acolytes, and provides a platform to provide the basis of intelligent investing. The key will be the simplicity and agglomerating a strong back end with my vision.

I have no monitization plan, and it will be free to use for anyone. This is subject to change.

I will be using the latest and greatest JavaScript Frameworks to build this - MongoDB for persistent store, Node JS and Express frameworks, with a front end using Angular JS. This project will probably require some haggling with APIs to get financial data that I need.

Thats all she wrote. Thanks for reading. To others in the same pursuit, keep on grinding! Cheers

 

[leland]

Hey

I just read your latest update and it reminded me of my own experience . I was more or less in the same situation (programming an app toolkit though) and also had those feelings of burnout afterw working 1/2 year with little to no fun in between.

What's most importantly: how many beta testers / potential clients do you have?
If I were to set up my start up again, I'd start from the customer site (ie: pitch your product to potential customers => get them interested to comment on pitch => first mock up => new customer reactions => get reactions => and only then start actually programming)