My issues with 5x5 routines.

[Blucher]

Hi, 5x5 routines are great for simply building strength, however many guys are looking to improve their aesthetics, not to simply to get stronger. Hence why I think that 5x5 is over recommended as a weightlifting programme.

So how do I build an aesthetic body? Well the key to building an aesthetic body is get a 'v taper', a V taper is essentially when your body gets narrower as you move down from shoulders to hips, you should aim for a ratio of 1.6:1 shoulder:hip ratio.

To do this you will have to reduce the amounts of compound lifts in your routine that target your lower back i.e dead-lifts and barbell rows. Too many guys at the gym have lower bodys that are too wide giving them a more feminine physique with wide hips.

Replace your dead-lifts and rows with exercises that target your traps and delts. However you must also remember that aside from shoulders you must pay special attention to chest/arms. This is because these regions (aside from abs) are the muscles girls find most aesthetically pleasing (shoulders are a close behind). So I would recommend doing exercises such as pec flys (bigger chest), dips and pull ups (remember to straighten your arm fully before pulling up). You can also throw in bench press for good measure, however I've never found bench press to be the best exercise for purely growing chest as it is a press in which my triceps often tire before my chest.


So there, this is my first post here, hope I could help you guys improve your routines.

 

[Eternal_water]

But in theory Deadlifts and Rows increase back thickness not width so they should not affect the V taper. Pull ups are for width and will give the v taper with the lats. Shoulder workouts will help as well. Overhead press, side lateral raises and face pulls.

I would recommend keeping in deads and rows for thickness (and muscle balance) with pullups + shoulder work + fat burning for v taper.

 

[marmel75]

Deadlifts, squats, weighted pullups and weighted chinups should be staples in everyone's arsenals.

Why? These are big, compound, multi-joint movements that release huge amounts of testosterone and growth hormone in comparison to other lifts. So not only do they work very effectively for building size and strength, they also help increase the effectiveness of other exercises you are doing with them due to hormone release...

You want to get as close as you can to seeing the light?

Do 5 sets of 12 reps of deadlifts with 1 minute of rest in between sets. Whole workout takes about 10 minutes from start to finish but you will think you are seeing the light of heaven when you are done...pretty damn awesome for burning fat too...

I got up to doing 355 lb deadlifts at that pace over the course of about 6 or 7 weeks after starting around 275 lbs or so...

 

[Eternal_water]

Just as a side note I personally prefer T bar rows to bent over barbell rows but that is just a personal preference thing. Do any of you guys prefer T bar?

I have rows and deadlifts on my back day and I have lately noticed that I am actually getting my own V taper these days.

I do overhead press, side lateral dumbell raises and face pulls for shoulders and have low body fat which helps but I think it is mainly being good at pull ups that have done it.

I alternate between doing bodyweight pull ups one week and weighted the next and I just hit a new personal best of 18 controlled (bodyweight) pull ups today. Should hopefully feel a nice load of doms tomorrow.

 

[marmel75]

Just as a side note I personally prefer T bar rows to bent over barbell rows but that is just a personal preference thing. Do any of you guys prefer T bar?

I have rows and deadlifts on my back day and I have lately noticed that I am actually getting my own V taper these days.

I do overhead press, side lateral dumbell raises and face pulls for shoulders and have low body fat which helps but I think it is mainly being good at pull ups that have done it.

I alternate between doing bodyweight pull ups one week and weighted the next and I just hit a new personal best of 18 controlled (bodyweight) pull ups today. Should hopefully feel a nice load of doms tomorrow.

I love side lateral raises, but I've got a forearm issue I'm dealing with and those really bother it. Used to superset those with Gironda dumbbell swings and my shoulders were getting huge...got up to 50lb DB's on the lateral raises and 100lb DB's on the dumbbell swings, 4 sets of 8 reps each, 15 seconds rest between supersets.

 

[marmel75]

Way overthinking this. And its the shoulder to waist ratio, not hip. If this was the case I'd be in big trouble because my hips bow out due to all the heavy squatting I've done, they measure 41 inches.

I lift compounds pretty much every day and I have a near perfect 1.58:1 ratio(52" shoulders, 33" waist).

The reason you don't have a "V" is because you are carrying to much fat around your waist. Lose the midsection and love handles and you will have a much better "V".

Deadlifts, Wide Grip Pullups, Lat Pulldowns, DB Rows, and Barbell Rows will all help you achieve a wider back. My back literally goes out past my shoulders, I look like like I have airplane wings attached to my back.

The problem isn't your routine, its your eating, not lifting heavy enough weight and not working out intensely enough to achieve the results you want. But its always easier to blame it on the program you are doing I suppose...

 

[AttackFormation]

Deadlifts, squats, weighted pullups and weighted chinups should be staples in everyone's arsenals.

Why? These are big, compound, multi-joint movements that release huge amounts of testosterone and growth hormone in comparison to other lifts. So not only do they work very effectively for building size and strength, they also help increase the effectiveness of other exercises you are doing with them due to hormone release...

You want to get as close as you can to seeing the light?

Do 5 sets of 12 reps of deadlifts with 1 minute of rest in between sets. Whole workout takes about 10 minutes from start to finish but you will think you are seeing the light of heaven when you are done...pretty damn awesome for burning fat too...

I got up to doing 355 lb deadlifts at that pace over the course of about 6 or 7 weeks after starting around 275 lbs or so...

There is no good evidence AFAIK that suggests that this temporary hormone release matters. You won't get bigger arms from squatting... it's just pretty logical that there would be more hormones released when you use more/bigger muscles as there is simply more tissue/receptors at work, that doesn't mean it's some kind of super move...

I also disagree that anything "should" be part of anyone's workout. What should be part of your workouts is what you yourself like the best.

Just as a side note I personally prefer T bar rows to bent over barbell rows but that is just a personal preference thing. Do any of you guys prefer T bar?

I also prefer T bars over bent over barbells.

---

In general: The V-taper consists of big lats, big shoulders and a slim waist. Without them, even if the "fill-out" muscles of the chest and arms are solid, you won't have a V-taper. So again if you want a V-taper then lose body fat until you're at a decent level and prioritize your time and energy for exercises that focus on your shoulder girdle and lats, ie. overhead presses, side raises and whatever you prefer to do for lats.

 

[marmel75]

There is no good evidence AFAIK that suggests that this temporary hormone release matters. You won't get bigger arms from squatting... it's just pretty logical that there would be more hormones released when you use more/bigger muscles as there is simply more tissue/receptors at work, that doesn't mean it's some kind of super move...

This has been shown in studies to be absolutely false. In fact it has been proven numerous times that it DOES make a difference, and a substantial difference in that. In this study, men trained one arm on days by itself and the other arm on days they did squats. Same reps, same everything. According to your theory, their biceps should have been the exact same size when at the end of the study because it doesn't matter. In fact it did matter, as they saw the biceps trained while doing legs was significantly bigger than the one trained by itself.

http://www.ergo-log.com/wantbiggerbiceps.html

In another study, they found that whatever muscle group you train first on a leg day grows fastest.

http://www.ergo-log.com/trainyourlegs.html

Please do your research before you post things as fact, I certainly do and have done mine.

 

[AttackFormation]

I looked this up ages ago. You can read a more complete article which includes that study here and in more detail here.

Another research with conflicting results (which are on page 21) is here.

If your claim was true there would be no conflicting evidence, so the answer cannot be as easy as "squats make everything grow, because of a bigger hormone release". There may be something else at work, like the fact that there is simply individual variation when it comes to hypertrophy response. How do you know what's causing what? the only thing we can take from these conflicting studies is that some people grow more than others, we don't fully know why, and that the evidence for post-workout hormone releases helping other muscles to grow is weak/inconclusive.

 

[marmel75]

I personally could care less if squatting doesn't give me bigger arms. It definitely gives me bigger legs.

Best to keep things simple: I'm better off squatting than not.

This much is true...unfortunately nobody let me know that squats, deadlifts, hack squats, etc would force me to buy pants a size or two too big since if I buy proper fitting pants the first time I squat down I will either rip the seam on the outside of my legs, the seam along the groin, or the seam along the top of my butt...lol

Oh well, can't win them all I suppose

 

[marmel75]

I also disagree that anything "should" be part of anyone's workout. What should be part of your workouts is what you yourself like the best

This right here is why so many guys who go to the gym regularly look like they never lifted a weight in their life...

They want to do easy lifts with easy weights so they can con themselves into thinking they are "working out". In reality they are wasting their time, their money and my time by taking up equipment that I need, especially when I am running supersets or giant sets with no rest in between and then either have to wait for them to finish or do an alternate exercise instead.

As Ronnie Coleman said best "Everyone wants to get big, but nobody wants to lift no heavy @ss weights"

So let me correct my statement: Compound lifts should be a part of your workout if you want to maximize the benefit of working out, push yourself harder, and become stronger & more muscular. If they don't care about that, then by all means carry on with what they "like", but never confuse effort with results.

You ain't deadlifting nothing til your bleedin'...loaded bars tend to rip the sh!t out of your shins and knees when you drag it up...

 

[AttackFormation]

I guess I should've made my statement clearer. What I meant was find the most effective compound exercises for you. For example I don't do deadlifts, I do t-bar rows. I don't bench, I do dips. And so on. You don't have to do deadlifts or whatever because exercises don't have different magic powers and the most important thing is your motivation to keep going over time and improve which is gonna be greater if you like the exercises you're doing.

 

[Grewdz]

Good routine