My honesty lost the girl

[sstype]

So I met up with this girl for a second date. She was very attractive and fun to talk to....but I'm simply not at a point in my life where I want anything serious with anyone right now. So we go back to my place, have a few drinks...and I plant a few kisses on her but she's definitely not moving anything past that....its cool since I'm not really sweating her. So we talk and since i've had a few to drink by now...I just drop the truth about my intentions.

"Look, I think you're really cool and I would like to be friends but I can't really offer anything more than that"

She responds "I see....so do you kiss all of your "friends"?" Basically implying her indignation that I made moves on her even though I had no intention of any serious "dating".

She also told me that she can't just have sex with a guy and not catch feelings for him.

Essentially I got vibe from her that she was hoping we would date and possible evolve into something serious but I could not bring it to myself to deceive her.

Well we continued to talk but at this point I knew I was done and honestly did not really care. I know women say they value "honesty" in a guy but when it comes down to it they rather would be deceived and heartbroken than appreciate a man who tells the truth.

I've broken hearts in the past and I'm sick of hurting others to satisfy my selfish desires. I don't want to tell a woman what she wants to hear. Its not
worth it to me anymore to deceive a woman in order to get laid.

My buddy who endured a year-long dry spell told me this....

Paraphrasing

"Bro I could have any of these women if I wanted to, I know exactly what B.S. to spit to convince them to sleep with me. I did just that in college and f*cked over a lot of women. I don't want to play those games any more...its just not worth it to me. That's why I got no play for the longest time."

I know some of you guys will bash on me for not being ruthless and just lying to her, damn her feelings....I could have easily swooned her if I wanted to.......but when I thought about doing just that I remembered "what good is it for a man to gain the world, if he loses his soul?"

It just seems like if I keep running into the same type of women.....I'm doomed to celibacy until I'm ready for a relationship.

 

[nismo-4]

I'm in ATL too.

You know how shallow most of these women are. I HAVE to lie, otherwise, I know I can't get a girl naturally. I'm working out physically and financially, but neither one is at a level that would attract women.

Honesty can cost you some One night stands. But it's useful for long term.

 

[floydb25]

I give you props for what you did. It shows strong character.

But I'm confused about your claim that women would rather be lied to. How do you figure that? They don't KNOW if they're being lied to when someone plays them, and lies about their intentions. I don't see how not knowing is the same as preferring.

Also, why not find girls that are looking for nothing serious? They're not hard to find, and no one gets hurt. Everyone knows what's up. I have a friend who does this, and he tells them he's just looking for sex. They say the same thing. He has lots of sex buddies. No deceiving or playing involved.

I don't see why people believe you have to lie to get anywhere with women. Lying is for selfish people who, like you said, are only interested in satisfying their needs - by any means necessary - with no regards for anyone else. It's deceitful, and only works because the other person has no idea what's going on. It will work on someone who, for instance, is looking for a relationship, and you CLAIM to be. So? Find someone who isn't. Problem solved.

 

[Wildebeest]

Ive been debating this same thing in my head lately...
im a 23 year old virgin, and this girl is interested in me. But I am still not prepared to deceive her into sex under the pretense that I want to date her, if I dont.

Its harder when you're not actually sure of what you want.

 

[perseverance]

I give you props for what you did. It shows strong character.

But I'm confused about your claim that women would rather be lied to. How do you figure that? They don't KNOW if they're being lied to when someone plays them, and lies about their intentions. I don't see how not knowing is the same as preferring.

Also, why not find girls that are looking for nothing serious? They're not hard to find, and no one gets hurt. Everyone knows what's up. I have a friend who does this, and he tells them he's just looking for sex. They say the same thing. He has lots of sex buddies. No deceiving or playing involved.

I don't see why people believe you have to lie to get anywhere with women. Lying is for selfish people who, like you said, are only interested in satisfying their needs - by any means necessary - with no regards for anyone else. It's deceitful, and only works because the other person has no idea what's going on. It will work on someone who, for instance, is looking for a relationship, and you CLAIM to be. So? Find someone who isn't. Problem solved.

I couldn't agree more.

Honesty is by far the best policy. Always treat people how you'd like to be treated until they give you reason not to.

 

[perseverance]

Its harder when you're not actually sure of what you want.

Why not give it a chance and see if you change your mind?

 

[bukowski_merit]

"Look, I think you're really cool and I would like to be friends but I can't really offer anything more than that"

I understand wanting to be honest, but there's really no reason to do this here. #1 - it's way too early to talk about what you are. #2 YOU have no idea what feelings you'd catch, or how the "relationship" would turn out if you followed it on a linear fashion. Especially once sex becomes involved, etc. #3 why use the word "friend"??? I can almost guarentee that if you said "I'm not really looking for anything serious right now." things wouldn't have been so bad. I don't think your honesty lost the girl; i think you LJBFing her did!

She also told me that she can't just have sex with a guy and not catch feelings for him.

Which is true for any woman who isn't BPD/a psychopath.

Well we continued to talk but at this point I knew I was done and honestly did not really care. I know women say they value "honesty" in a guy but when it comes down to it they rather would be deceived and heartbroken than appreciate a man who tells the truth.

It's fine that you don't care. So this isn't worth all these paragraphs.

If you MUST say something like this to a woman, and you still want a chance to be with her - things will go a lot smoother is you don't LJBF her! Choose better words.

I've broken hearts in the past and I'm sick of hurting others to satisfy my selfish desires. I don't want to tell a woman what she wants to hear. Its not worth it to me anymore to deceive a woman in order to get laid.

So, you've (in the past) told women you were interested in a relationship just to get sex? Or are you just saying that you knew they wanted a relationship and you knew you didn't, but you just didn't say anything?

If you don't want a relationship with women - the best way to avoid them falling in love (getting hurt) is to limit your contact with them. I only have one woman who i'll see more than once a week. I'm meeting a woman tonight that i see about once every 2-3 weeks.

Deception is not when you have sex with a woman and don't want a relationship with her. It's when you have sex with a woman, spend time with her, spend lots of time with her laughing and carrying on, spending the night together, and basically do bf/gf stuff with her while not wanting a relationship.

I know some of you guys will bash on me for not being ruthless and just lying to her, damn her feelings....I could have easily swooned her if I wanted to.......but when I thought about doing just that I remembered "what good is it for a man to gain the world, if he loses his soul?"

It just seems like if I keep running into the same type of women.....I'm doomed to celibacy until I'm ready for a relationship.

This is a bit dramatic here man. Pull yourself together!

 

[Iceberg]

I know some of you guys will bash on me for not being ruthless and just lying to her, damn her feelings....I could have easily swooned her if I wanted to.......but when I thought about doing just that I remembered "what good is it for a man to gain the world, if he loses his soul?"

It just seems like if I keep running into the same type of women.....I'm doomed to celibacy until I'm ready for a relationship.

I don't think you have to lie to these women to sleep with them.

I used to think the same way, "This girl is nice....she's on a date with me...so, she definitely wants a life-long relationship."

But that's not the case. They enjoy short term flings just as much as we do. So maybe that means for 3 months, you meet her for drinks and you go to her house and screw. And if you decide to stop calling each other, I'm sure she'll get over it.

I don't think going on dates with a girl is the equivalent of selling them some dream of marriage, kids, and eternal love.

Sure, she's nice. She's "different". She's "not the partying type." Well, she's driven by the same hormones as every female on the planet. And if the opportunity comes to spend time with a quality guy (You), she'd be happy to have it. Even if it's only the occasional hookup.

You know this girl better than I do. So, tell me if I'm way off. Maybe you want a "booty call girl", and she's more like a "drinks-and-appetizers then sex" girl. But don't talk yourself out of bedding a nice girl just because you THINK she wants a deep relationship. Because for the right guy (again, YOU), they will accept a temporary arrangement in place of dating AFCs or sleeping alone.

 

[sstype]

Hey guys thanks for the feedback. And Bulkowski, I was being overdramatic last night when I wrote this....blame the alcohol haha.

Bulkowski and Iceberg, I understand what you're saying about just going with the flow but hear me out....perhaps I should have worded it differently to her....but I was getting an impression from her based on our conversation that ULTIMATELY, she was sweating for a boyfriend. I mean she would ask me all sorts of probing questions and then at one point she even jokingly told me after I said something favorable "wow....you're definitely marriage material!"

She also dropped another bomb later "I've just about given up on men" so to me it was setting off alarms in my head that this girl had major trust issues. The chick even told me she was scanning my place for "signs of psycho".......YIKES!!! Had I slept with her it would have meant potential drama that I was not willing to deal with.

All in all I was getting the vibe that she had gotten burned in the past and that she had this expectation that I better not screw her over as well.

I guess had our conversation been a little more lighthearted and casual and not felt like an interview/screening process i would not have felt the need to bring up the LJBF talk in the first place. I freaked out.

 

[DonGorgon]

women prefer exciting lies over the boring truth

lying works better 99% of the times.. the truth may make you feel better and sleep at night but it wont get you pu$$y unless you are alpha

 

[wait_out]

You need to present yourself differently. Don't go on dates or do anything that suggests "boyfriend", they will get it in their heads whether you are honest (no relationship) or not. What is important is what they feel, not what you say -- they won't truly listen in many cases! You need to set up their expectations. Be breezy... be seen as a fling or fun rebound. You want them to like your personality but laugh at your attention span. Pursue girls passing though town or who live in different countries. It will solve your issues... if girls like you and see you as marriage material, being honest crushes them ("I didn't measure up") or they will say "it's cool" and then break their own hearts trying to woo you into a LTR.

I don't like breaking hearts either dude... being an obvious terrible long-term prospect will get these girls to filter themselves, so you won't have to. And you'd better be prepared to hit on total strangers since lots of sex with one person usually causes pair-bonding.

If that's too complicated, you could just get married. That can't possibly be any more complicated than this, right?

 

[runner83]

Get over the idea that a short-term s!xual relationship with a girl is being dishonest with her.

The girl who says she is only looking for a relationship is the same one who will get gladly get fvcked by some alpha in a random 1 nighter if the circumstances are right.

 

[Trump]

So I met up with this girl for a second date. She was very attractive and fun to talk to....but I'm simply not at a point in my life where I want anything serious with anyone right now. So we go back to my place, have a few drinks...and I plant a few kisses on her but she's definitely not moving anything past that....its cool since I'm not really sweating her. So we talk and since i've had a few to drink by now...I just drop the truth about my intentions.

"Look, I think you're really cool and I would like to be friends but I can't really offer anything more than that"

She responds "I see....so do you kiss all of your "friends"?" Basically implying her indignation that I made moves on her even though I had no intention of any serious "dating".

She also told me that she can't just have sex with a guy and not catch feelings for him.

Essentially I got vibe from her that she was hoping we would date and possible evolve into something serious but I could not bring it to myself to deceive her.

She doesn't want to go past a few kisses on the cheek, and you tell her you can't offer anything more than being friends? Sounds like you were saving face and she called your bluff.

Let girls fall in love with you first, and then you can reject them all you like because you want to be truthful.

 

[wait_out]

She also dropped another bomb later "I've just about given up on men" so to me it was setting off alarms in my head that this girl had major trust issues....

All in all I was getting the vibe that she had gotten burned in the past and that she had this expectation that I better not screw her over as well.

Or, Trump, you could put 2+2 together

 

[sstype]

You need to present yourself differently. Don't go on dates or do anything that suggests "boyfriend", they will get it in their heads whether you are honest (no relationship) or not. What is important is what they feel, not what you say -- they won't truly listen in many cases! You need to set up their expectations. Be breezy... be seen as a fling or fun rebound. You want them to like your personality but laugh at your attention span. Pursue girls passing though town or who live in different countries. It will solve your issues... if girls like you and see you as marriage material, being honest crushes them ("I didn't measure up") or they will say "it's cool" and then break their own hearts trying to woo you into a LTR.

I don't like breaking hearts either dude... being an obvious terrible long-term prospect will get these girls to filter themselves, so you won't have to. And you'd better be prepared to hit on total strangers since lots of sex with one person usually causes pair-bonding.

If that's too complicated, you could just get married. That can't possibly be any more complicated than this, right?

Wait_Out....I agree with you on this. I need to be more flighty and somewhat more aggressive in order to indicate to her that i'm "short-term" fling material. It does act as an effective filter....the girls that want to formally date, take it slow, etc will be turned off by me but the women who are just looking for a casual fling won't mind the caveman approach.

 

[Wildebeest]

thanks I needed to hear some cold truths myself

 

[Bible_Belt]

Essentially I got vibe from her that she was hoping we would date and possible evolve into something serious

That's the essence of female attraction. It wouldn't matter if you were married and the girl were your fourth mistress - any woman who will be attracted to you will also have fairy-tale fantasies at the same time. The two cannot be separated. But as women become more mature and 'suave' with men, they learn to hide their thoughts so as not to scare you off...which is essential lying...which is what you are scared to do to her.

It doesn't make logical sense to us, but women want you to lie. They want emotion, passion, and drama. Being an open book and trying to straight-forward negotiate your way into a relationship doesn't work.

 

[nismo-4]

Get over the idea that a short-term s!xual relationship with a girl is being dishonest with her.

The girl who says she is only looking for a relationship is the same one who will get gladly get fvcked by some alpha in a random 1 nighter if the circumstances are right.

QFT!!!

Make this as part of your sig!

 

[Demonpenz]

The game is day to day, why not just keep it rolling and see if it evolves into something great.

 

[Zarky]

LOL some guys just never learn. You either lie to women or you have no women. There is no other way. Read my post on the subject here:

http://matingmarket.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/rule-4-you-must-lie-to-women/