My emotionally unhealthy living environment

[Bungo Pony]

Well, I can't say I didn't see this coming, but the reality has hit me. My father has put me in a difficult position. First of all, I need to give you guys some background on the situation.

Back when I was 20 years old, I had a girlfriend. No big deal, right? I had begun spending the occasional night over at her place, and I was visiting her quite often. My dad was trying to order me to stay home, but I refused to let him control my life. It got worse after I started paying rent. He started putting rediculous cerfews on me. I ended up moving in with my girlfriend. My dad ended up changing the locks, and there were some things that he didn't let me take that rightly belonged to me. He would rub it in my face that since I moved out, I had no money. Little did I know at the time he was getting printouts of my bank account. He also told me that I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a car. I eventually bought one.

Fast foreward to March 2002. I was living with a friend of mine, and he tried screwing me around. I desperately needed a place to move quickly and my parents gave me the offer. I accepted, but I told them it would only be temporary. I swore to myself that if my dad starts the controlling crap again, I'll immediately make plans for moving out.

After me and my fiance decided to get married, my father wasn't too happy (as I expected). He asked "I thought you were going to buy a house". My plans for buying a house are still on schedule. For the longest time, he was incredibly quiet about the whole wedding thing.

Last night, I decided to stay home and do some work on my autobiography. I went down to the kitchen and my dad stopped me. I'm guessing he realized that the wedding is now less than a year away. This is basically how the conversation went:

Dad: Hey, are you still going through with the wedding?
Me : Yes
Dad: You know, if I was you, I'd wait a year. By then I'll have all my bills cleared up, and I'll be able to help you out a little bit more. I'll be able to give you $5000 by then.

So, here's the first major sign of him taking action. Now, my dad is a compulsive gambler. He has been talking about having his bills cleared up for as long as I can remember. He's over $20,000 in the hole. His credit cards are over their limit, he's always stuck in overdraft, plus he needs money for gambling.

My father has basically bribed me NOT to get married. He makes negative comments about my fiance every chance he gets. Then he tells me I should go for the woman who lives across the street. He's trying to plant ideas in my head.

Bottom line, I need to get the **** out of my parents' house. Here's my dilemma, I have a wedding to pay for and rent is cheap at my parents place. If I move out, I'll have a lot more bills to pay, plus food. My fiance is helping out as much as she can with the wedding costs (we're planning a cheap wedding). The thing is my parents house is not an emotionally healthy environment for me to live in, and it is only going to get worse as the wedding day approaches.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[WatchMeWalk]

Nothing personal Bungo, but your dad is obviously a codependant headcase and exerting control over his grown son is his way of dealing with anxiety.
My own father is the same way. Any display of independance I make has a good chance of stirring needless drama between us. But I just roll with it because I know him for what he is.

Oh, and don't believe that BS about the 5 grand. It's a blatant stalling tactic.

 

[tamales]

Hey BP:

Wow! And I thought my Dad was controlling. You ought to be very proud of yourself. You were one of the first people to help me on here and gave me the best advice I have ever gotten. Good for you that you turned out great and have your **** together. Not an easy task in an unhealthy environment. Heck, no easy even in a "Cleaver" household.

ANyways, some ideas: Yep, you need to get outta there. I mean you can't pick your relatives but staying in a bad environment, which this sounds like is no good for anyone. I feel bad for you as in time as your Dad ages, I think he will regret all of this. SOunds like he needs help. Are you at least close with your Mom? How does she deal?

So,

1.) Can you move in with fiance?
2.) Do you have any bros or hos (jk) you could move in with?
3.) Can you rent a place until then? I assume you have a job?
4.) Move in with a buddy and pay rent? Or get a place together?

Do whatever you need to do. If you are planning on buying a house in a year, seems to me you can afford to rent in the meantime.

Wedding Plans:

1.) Sounds geeky but I bet if you write a letter to some of those magazines asking for help, you might get some response. Especially, if you tell your story. I know it sounds far off but I know a guy that did this and they sent him a major gift certificate and tux. Dunno. There are also all sorts of contests that might help.

2.) Get married at the court and delay the honeymoon until you can both afford it. I mean heck, love conquers all and being together is all that matters.

3.) Or have the wedding where you first met. ie at a local restaurant. Go talk to the owner of the place that you frequent. Explain your situation and see what he or she can do.

Lastly, ask for help from all your friends, neighbors and people that do care about you and fiance. You will be surprised at the generous response you get. I mean I am sure between the two of you, you'll muster all kinds of support. Dunno.

Just some suggestions.

Good luck.

 

[bp1974]

What she said

You need to be independent, both financially and in having your own roof. If it means compromising on the wedding/house buying plans, so be it, you can work all that sh*t out later.

bp1974

 

[Mr. Fingers]

This reminds me of a story.

My cousin was in love with his girl for 3 years and they finally decided to tie the knot. The family had a HUGE wedding adn the parents spent about 50,000 bucks on a boat party, catering, plane tickets..the works. 5 months later, my cousin divorced this chick! All that money went down the tubes for one night of frivolous tradition.

Moral of the story: Have a humble and cheap wedding and invite only the closest fams and take that extra money and buy something that will last longer than one night! I know it is her night to be a princess and all, but for the 2 of you I think peace of mind has higher value than all the whistles and wedding bells.

My stepdad was a controlling psycho too, My heart goes out to you.

 

[Mazman]

If really think it's that bad, you should spend the money to move out.

So are you buying a house right before you are married?

 

[drZaius09]

No offense, buddy, but it sounds like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

You lament that rent is cheap at your parents' house, and that moving out will mean paying for bills, food, a higher rent. Plus you have a wedding to pay for. The hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper. What magical windfall do you expect will finance your independence once you are married? Is a substantial increase in your income just around the corner? If not, I don't see how your situation is going to change very dramatically from this point until the point you have a wife.

There's no logic in continuing down the same road (to marriage) if you cannot sever the leash to your parents at this very moment. My advice would be to postpone the wedding, not to be in accordance with your father's wishes but just until you can get your own feet on the ground. Perhaps get an apartment, pool your resources with your fiance's, and find some stability before making your life more complicated.

 

[Bungo Pony]

Watchmewalk: no offense taken . Also, I don't believe the thing about the 5 grand. He's made an unbelieveable amount of broken promises throughout my whole life.

Hi Tamales! You've brought forth a lot of good ideas. BTW, I'm doing allright with my mother. She's a bit worried about how bad this is going to get. She had to deal with it once before. She thinks my dad is going completely mental.

1.) Can you move in with fiance?
She starts school full time in the fall, and goes until January. We would be hard pressed financially. Our original plan is to move in together in March 2004

2.) Do you have any bros or hos (jk) you could move in with?
I know my brother would let me move in with him, but the only problem is he lives in another province. My sister lives farther than my brother.

3.) Can you rent a place until then? I assume you have a job?
This is probably the only option I could consider. Again, this would be financially hard on me. My truck won't be paid off until next year (which is when I plan to buy a house), plus I have a wedding to pay for. BTW, yes I do have a job

4.) Move in with a buddy and pay rent? Or get a place together?
Heh, that's what got me into the situation I'm in now. All my friends have things going on in their lives. Some are shacked up and living in small apartments, some are in the process of having kids, some don't live in the city anymore, etc etc. I can't think of one friend I could move in. Plus, I really don't want to kill another friendship.

Do whatever you need to do. If you are planning on buying a house in a year, seems to me you can afford to rent in the meantime.

Here's what I will be doing with my money: Saving for a down payment for a house, paying for a wedding, paying for rent, paying my truck payments, paying for food/gas. My paycheque only stretches so far.

1.) Sounds geeky but I bet if you write a letter to some of those magazines asking for help, you might get some response. Especially, if you tell your story. I know it sounds far off but I know a guy that did this and they sent him a major gift certificate and tux. Dunno. There are also all sorts of contests that might help.

This is an interesting idea. I don't know how much good a gift certificate will do. My fiance is doing up the outfits instead of renting tuxedos (way cheaper). A lot of the stuff we are doing ourselves to cut down on the costs. The invitations and envelopes are home made. I must say, I like the way everything's turning out. It's a very creative wedding so far! Since me and my fiance are big karaoke buffs and are both in bands, we have a lot of friends with sound systems. She knows 2 JOPs which will preform the ceremony for a case of beer LOL! My mom is picking up the tab for all the food, and she's doing the wedding cake. The biggest expenses are the reception location, the rings (already paid for), and the booze. We're going the cash bar route. the whole wedding's probably going to cost us under $2000.

2.) Get married at the court and delay the honeymoon until you can both afford it. I mean heck, love conquers all and being together is all that matters.

My fiance really wants the honeymoon, but I have a feeling we may need to put it off.

3.) Or have the wedding where you first met. ie at a local restaurant. Go talk to the owner of the place that you frequent. Explain your situation and see what he or she can do.

LMFAO!! You should see the dump we met in! We've made jokes about having our wedding there. It will never go further than a joke. The place used to be my regular hangout, full of social proof. I'd bring women there for the sole purpose of attracting them with social proof. It worked quite well!

Lastly, ask for help from all your friends, neighbors and people that do care about you and fiance. You will be surprised at the generous response you get. I mean I am sure between the two of you, you'll muster all kinds of support.

I've basically mentioned all the help we're getting.

If we can get all the major costs out of the way ASAP, then I can look into moving out. We've already taken care of about half of them.

Mr. Fingers, I'm way ahead of you as you can tell. I agree wholeheartedly on the cheap wedding idea.

Mazman, I'm buying the house after we get married. Money is continually being put away for the down payment.

 

[Bungo Pony]

Dr.Zarius- You seem to get the impression that I'm relying on my marriage to fix my financial situation which is not the case at all. I developed this plan when I moved back into my parents house. Nothing has changed as far as my plans for getting a house. If me and my fiance were to split up, I would continue down the exact same path as before. I've just had a couple of things thrown at me that I didn't expect. The cheap rent is the only balance as far as the wedding is concerned. If I move out on my own right now, the balance gets thrown off, and I get financially molested. If the wedding wasn't in the picture, I could easily move into an apartment on my own. Yes, I could wait for the wedding, but I've learned that if I spend my life waiting, I'll grow old and die. Life isn't going to stop throwing expenses at me just because I want to get married.

 

[Mazman]

Well it sounds like you want this wedding to go through first and foremost, so I guess you'll have to suck it up by living with your parents.

If you really want to move out there's nothing stopping you.

 

[GirlCrazy]

I would first get an apartment with your fiance, regardless of whether it cuts into your wedding / house plans. Being independent gives you the good attitude you just can't have with being dependent on somebody else. The good attitude that comes with knowing that you don't answer to anyone is priceless. As you know from this site, attitude is most of the battle, not only for interacting with women, but for life in general. Once you have the right frame of mind, you'd be surprised at how everything else seems to fall into place.

I would go the cheap route for the wedding, maybe even cheaper than the 2k you are planning for. Why? Because I've seen dozens of friends get married and either start their life together with massive debt and / or totally broke. I've seen friends get so totally obsessed with the ceremony, photographer, cake, reception, invitations, etc., that they lose track of what it's all about, the symbolic union of two people. Not to mention the stress. It's supposed to be the happiest day of your life, not the most stressful. Keep it simple, keep it laid back, and use the extra money to buy things couples usually don't plan for like appliances and furniture. My wedding cost $600 total (including limo), and we started life with all new appliances / furniture, including a big screen TV, and no debt. The quadruple stretch limo would have been nice for a couple hours, but our kenmore super capacity washer and dryer still serve us well to this day. We got married in vegas, which our friends loved, and we asked for only cash for wedding presents. We planned on gambling all the gift money away (because we saved so much on the simple wedding) but we just couldn't lose. We kept winning and winning and finally got bored, got a bite to eat, and got an early start on our wedding night.

Maybe vegas isn't the best if your dad has a gambling problem. I had similar problems with my dad as you have, and he got no input whatsoever into the wedding, or anything else to do with my life. Heck I didn't even think he would show (but he did). Just like the DJ's here advise about women, the best way to avoid being controlled is simply not to give anybody else control over you in the first place.

You wouldn't accept that from a woman you're dating, why would it be any different when it comes to your parents?

My wedding was stress-free because we focused on what really mattered, love. I look back on it as the best day of my life, because we just had a rockin' good time (and still do).

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by Bungo Pony
Dr.Zarius- You seem to get the impression that I'm relying on my marriage to fix my financial situation which is not the case at all.

No, that's not the impression I got. What I want to know is HOW you plan on fixing your finances once you ARE married. I would assume that if you're broke now, you'll be even more broke once the wedding is over. Then you will be in the same place as before, only this time with a spouse to worry about. I am merely suggesting you take a step back. Honestly, where do you expect to be when the ceremonies are over? Obviously you won't be able to afford a house by then, correct? Do you figure on living with your parents AND your new bride together?

 

[tamales]

You could ask everyone you know or meet to "to spot ya a dollar". JK.

I do however, agree with Dr. Z. I mean if you don't have the money today, what makes you think you'll have it tomorrow. That's how people get into trouble. Especially, with credit cards.

And what kind of work do you do? Maybe you could get an additional part-time job. That's what I am doing in addition to my company and it really helps. Pain in the ass but heck, my parents wouldn't even agree to let me back in the house.

Sound like you already know what you are going to do and nothing we say will matter. If you really wanted to not live at home, you wouldn't. Period.

And your fiance, is one lucky gal to actually have a guy that wants to plan a wedding.

As always, good luck man. And I'll spot you a buck

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Why not live together defacto for a while? I know marriage is symbolic esp. if its a DJ doing it, but your situation doesn't warrant for a smooth wedding. You MIGHT be able to pull it off, but chances are that financial difficulties after marriage might be causing tension.

Alternatively borrow money from a college loan facility. They often have no interest, but only if you or girl attends college.

 

[Bungo Pony]

GirlCrazy wrote:

the best way to avoid being controlled is simply not to give anybody else control over you in the first place.

This is very true. I'm not going to give my control over to my dad at all. I've been through this one already, and I knew that I ran the risk of going through it again when I moved back in with my parents. Moving back in with them was a last resort.

As for furniture, I still own all that I have from going out on my own the first time. This won't be a major problem.

What I want to know is HOW you plan on fixing your finances once you ARE married. I would assume that if you're broke now, you'll be even more broke once the wedding is over. Then you will be in the same place as before, only this time with a spouse to worry about

I see what you mean Dr.Z. One of my major debts is purely temporary and it will be done by next year. There are some great financial positives in the near future for me. I've pulled through some of the ****tiest financial problems in the past few years, and I'm still alive. It's all risk, and a person has to realize that whenever he takes a major step in his life as I am.

Honestly, where do you expect to be when the ceremonies are over? Obviously you won't be able to afford a house by then, correct? Do you figure on living with your parents AND your new bride together?

We're not moving in with my parents LOL! An apartment will be temporary while I continue to save up money for a house. I'm not letting go of that one! I will be able to afford a house shortly after we are married as I'm almost there.

Tamales, I know the credit card issue all too well. I'm taking a lot more care in using that thing nowadays. It was once up to it's limit, and I never want to be stuck in that situation again.

Also, I've gone the part-time job route, and I've discovered that it really doesn't pay off at all. The extra money is nice when it's coming in, but you get screwed come income tax time. FYI, I work in the field of electronics, nice weekday job with steady hours. I've been there for 5 years, and I recently completed a college course, so there's a nice raise in my future.

If you really wanted to not live at home, you wouldn't. Period.

This is why I didn't for such a long time. I'm staying just for the financial benefit. Unfortunately, I live with a very discouraging parent, and matters are only going to get worse.

One thing that a lot of you have to remember is that I've lived with a woman before. I've been that route, and I know what it's all about. I can't say that I hated it, but I had chosen the wrong person to live with. If anything, my finances improved with having the second income. However, as time went on, I let her have anything that she wanted, just to keep her happy. This was MY major mistake, and I've learned a valuable lesson from it.

It looks like I'll have no choice but to grit my teeth and wait this one out until March.

 

[GirlCrazy]

Bungo you say you're not going to give control over to your dad, but you did that merely by moving into his house. You knowingly and willingly gave x amount of control up, and that seems to be the root of the problem, and the reason for this thread in the first place.

Like you said in your own words, you put yourself in an emotionally unhealthy living environment. How much is your emotional health worth, in dollars? For me personally, it's a large number

 

[myfriendblu]

aw man, i can relate. its sucks hella bad living at home, especially in a not so ideal living situation. My advise for you in the mean time would be to spend as little time at home as possible. Your what, 25? you should be able to leave home and stay with friends/girl friends for days at a time.

The number one reasons most marriages fail is because of finances. Its sounds to me like your boat is sinking and you haven't even started out yet. I would wait. Why rush into the marriage? Dude, when your 40, whats the difference if you have been married for the past 15,14 or 13 years. None. No biggie. i would FOR SURE wait. remember, were men here. There is no "ticking biological clock" here. Our looks don't all of the sudden collapse when we hit 30 or 40 or 50. Your girl has high IL? Your engaged? I say good f'in enough for now. At the very least, i would wait until i was moved out on my own and at least reasonably financially secure and paying bills.

 

[Slickster]

I've got an idea!

Lets start The BUNGO PONY FUND.

We could get all the DJ's around here to send you $1 or something like that.

 

[tamales]

Hey Slick, that wasn't entirely your idea but hey, great minds think alike. Like I said.. imagine if we all asked to borrow a buck from every person we knew. LOL!

I am game. Here is on buck in the pot plus postage!

 

[Slickster]

Tamales

Sorry didn't mean to steal your idea. Didn't see your post

I think its a great idea.

Bungo Pony has given me more than a $1's worth of good advice and I would gladly pitch in a buck or two.

We just need to organize a Fund.

Ideas?