My 2nd LTR, Same Problems as 1st - What Am I Doing Wrong?

[DJCT]

The truly confident guy is never concerned with micro managing his 'image'.
He knows that its ok to make mistakes, and how another person perceives him is not his personal responsibility.

I'm at the stage where I have both the AFC and the DJ inside of me. Sometimes I'm DJ. I never think about micro-managing my image or behavior. Everything simply happens as it should. Then there are other times where the DJ side is completely gone without a trace and there is only AFC. I get confounded by things and resort to acting out what I think the DJ side of me would do. Because the behavior is affected, not genuine, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Not sure if this matches what others have found for themselves as they progress.

But you have to ask yourself why are you not happy with the current dynamic?
And do not get angry or judgemental if she is not finding the relationship as fulfilling and demonstrates her unhappiness and dissatisfaction.

Aside from thinking through what Francisco has written, in general I am happy with things. She's a good girl and I prefer spending time w/ her over the other girls I was dating when we met. She won out over others.

Are you communciating to her what your needs and wants are?

A lot of guys coast through relationships NEVER asserting what they want from their partner
So she gets used to acting bratty because guys put up with it.

Remember, it is counterintuitive to stand up tp a woman , for a lot of guys.
Such is their view of the precious gift that they believe women possess.

But it is NOT Counter Productive.

Women want to know what you want.
If youre not communicating it to them. , and youre not happy and are resenting her, you need to recognize that.

Stand up for yourself and your needs being met, and your wants being met.

You dont always have to verbalize it though.

Except for occasionally asking me to buy stuff for her, she doesn't act bratty at all. She is never flaky or plays dumb games. Again, she won out over other girls for a reason. However, I know I'm not communicating what I want out of the relationship properly or adequately. I know that it's not exactly fair to judge her against a standard I haven't even shared with her. How can I address this? Could you give me some examples?

I've been thinking about the sex thing a little bit too. My gf says she doesn't want to be objectified, thinks that the only thing guys want is sex, thinks all guys are cheaters, doesn't want to give herself over to me full during sex. On the rare occasion she does give herself over to me, that is when we have the amazing sex. What is she communicating with these statements that I'm not understanding? Or does this point back to stuff Francisco talked about?

Seeing as this happened in my last LTR too, my feeling is that a great part of this is centered around my approach to sex. Any thoughts from anybody on this?

Maybe I just need to more clearly identify what brings me closer to the DJ side of me, what brings me closer to the AFC side of me and consciously work to always be moving towards DJ and a lot of this will clear up.

Also, thx for all the replies guys.

- DJCT

 

[Latinoman]

I find it pretty pathetic this thread has been ignored (only 21 replies), while this other thread full of woman drama (a woman created a thread in which she admits she is playing games) gets 150 replies (see link below)

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142327

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I find it pretty pathetic this thread has been ignored (only 21 replies), while this other thread full of woman drama (a woman created a thread in which she admits she is playing games) gets 150 replies (see link below)

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142327

Consider it a casualty of war.

 

[Latinoman]

I have 4 questions:

1- How old is this woman?
2- What can you tell me about her past (was she married? Does she have children?)
3- How long have you two being together (few months could be 2 or could be 15)?
4- Do you two live together?

 

[##17]

There's a lot here. Latinoman asked some good questions already. You also brought up some things you need to do. Here are my thoughts:

--Favors need to be MUTUAL. You pick stuff up for her from time to time, but she has to cook you dinner from time to time too. If you're on your way to her house because she is cooking you dinner, you can buy her some razors. But you should have her cook you what you really like.

--When she starts complaining about "guys", make fun of her. Or better yet, smack her on the azz. (This works wonders.) And start complaining to her about "girls".

--Whenever she asks you to buy her something, look at her and tell her that it is a HUGE turnoff. (It should be, and I don't care that she is 'joking'.) Then make her earn your attention back.

 

[Purple-Haze]

DJCT, have you just come out and asked her what's wrong?

And before the DJs start beating me with the bible... Just hear me out for a second.

Have you approached her with your concerns. ONCE. When you two are just hanging out, have you asked her what's up with the change?

I don't this as AFC behaviour (not if you address the issue once).

I think you are doing a lot of the right things (at least things I think are loving - pulling her close, being playful with her, helping her out, being the protector, etc...). But she obviously thinks something is missing.

Or is it that things are too comfortable and she wants to mix it up a little? Do you think she is capable of this?

 

[DJCT]

I have 4 questions:

1- How old is this woman?

23

2- What can you tell me about her past (was she married? Does she have children?)

Handful of LTRs through high-school and then one long one through first 4 years of college. No kids, no marriages. Couple of boyfriends cheated and she found out. She has a few hangups there.

3- How long have you two being together (few months could be 2 or could be 15)?

About 7 months.

4- Do you two live together?

No.

I've been reflecting on how I lived life before she and I met, how I lived my life when we met and how I've continued to live since then. I've come to realized just how sloppy I've gotten in managing not only my relationship with her but my entire life in general.

Over the past few days I've pulled back a little, to carve out some space for myself. I think that they way things are going reflects how well I'm managing my life overall. By average (meaning everybody else's) standards, things are going well enough I suppose. But I was living to a much higher standard before and I need to get back to living to that standard. When I was, things like women, work, money, and health all fell into place without the confusion and specific types of friction I'm experiencing now. I suspect that is really the problem I need to address.

Thoughts?

 

[##17]

DJCT, have you just come out and asked her what's wrong?

And before the DJs start beating me with the bible... Just hear me out for a second.

Have you approached her with your concerns. ONCE. When you two are just hanging out, have you asked her what's up with the change?

I don't this as AFC behaviour (not if you address the issue once).

I think you are doing a lot of the right things (at least things I think are loving - pulling her close, being playful with her, helping her out, being the protector, etc...). But she obviously thinks something is missing.

Or is it that things are too comfortable and she wants to mix it up a little? Do you think she is capable of this?

Well PH, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here...

To that, she could respond with something like "Oh I don't know. I'm not sure what I want..." I mean, what else is she going to say if she is somewhat bored with the relationship?

Or she gives him a list of a million things to fix. Now he's jumping through her hoops. In any case, he lost that much more power in the relationship.

 

[##17]

23

Handful of LTRs through high-school and then one long one through first 4 years of college. No kids, no marriages. Couple of boyfriends cheated and she found out. She has a few hangups there.

About 7 months.

No.

I've been reflecting on how I lived life before she and I met, how I lived my life when we met and how I've continued to live since then. I've come to realized just how sloppy I've gotten in managing not only my relationship with her but my entire life in general.

Over the past few days I've pulled back a little, to carve out some space for myself. I think that they way things are going reflects how well I'm managing my life overall. By average (meaning everybody else's) standards, things are going well enough I suppose. But I was living to a much higher standard before and I need to get back to living to that standard. When I was, things like women, work, money, and health all fell into place without the confusion and specific types of friction I'm experiencing now. I suspect that is really the problem I need to address.

Thoughts?

If you ARE going to have a talk with her (per PH's suggestion) you need to phrase it with "I'm not sure how happy I am with this relationship." (See the difference between this and asking her what is wrong on her end?) You can tell her that you're not OK with the whining and whatnot, and that her asking you to buy her stuff annoys you.

 

[DJCT]

DJCT, have you just come out and asked her what's wrong?

...

But she obviously thinks something is missing.

...

Or is it that things are too comfortable and she wants to mix it up a little?

I think we are both too comfortable. I've become too available to her. We share too many routines together (yuck). Spend too much dead-time together (time just hanging around). I haven't been approaching/interacting with as many women and have lost a bit of my edge. I've lost a little traction in my life too. I'm not the guy I was.

No offense, but in my experience talking about that stuff has limited value. I've read some post on here by Rollo (I think) that might suggest why this is. Aside from what he suggests, I don't have a reason other than that experience has shown me that tackling issues directly with women rarely gets the desired result. Could be my approach though ;-)

 

[DJCT]

Well PH, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here...

To that, she could respond with something like "Oh I don't know. I'm not sure what I want..." I mean, what else is she going to say if she is somewhat bored with the relationship?

Or she gives him a list of a million things to fix. Now he's jumping through her hoops. In any case, he lost that much more power in the relationship.

Amen!

 

[Purple-Haze]

I think we are both too comfortable. I've become too available to her. We share too many routines together (yuck). Spend too much dead-time together (time just hanging around). I haven't been approaching/interacting with as many women and have lost a bit of my edge. I've lost a little traction in my life too. I'm not the guy I was.

No offense, but in my experience talking about that stuff has limited value. I've read some post on here by Rollo (I think) that might suggest why this is. Aside from what he suggests, I don't have a reason other than that experience has shown me that tackling issues directly with women rarely gets the desired result. Could be my approach though ;-)

Well, if you aren't happy, you can either guess what is wrong or approach her with it (just once, as I said). But 17 is right, it's all in how you frame the questeion. If you leave it too open-ended, she may she that as a way to go to town and bring out stuff she didn't even think mattered.

What I bolded above is likely the issue. You need to get some passion back in there. How does she normally respond to you being a little unavailable, a little spontaneous?

EDIT: are you still attracted to her?

 

[DJCT]

What I bolded above is likely the issue. You need to get some passion back in there. How does she normally respond to you being a little unavailable, a little spontaneous?

She responds in textbook fashion, meaning she starts calling and texting more often, buys or cooks me things, offers to come over and give me a massage, etc.

EDIT: are you still attracted to her?

Hell yes!

 

[Purple-Haze]

She responds in textbook fashion, meaning she starts calling and texting more often, buys or cooks me things, offers to come over and give me a massage, etc.


Hell yes!

OK. So say you do these things - remove yourself a little, not pay as much attention to her, show her your value, etc... What then? She comes to you, is all up in that...wanting you. OK. Then you get into the routine again. She withdraws, you guys get too comfortable.

Then it starts all over again. You are left, scratching your head, wondering...

What then?

 

[DJCT]

OK. So say you do these things - remove yourself a little, not pay as much attention to her, show her your value, etc... What then? She comes to you, is all up in that...wanting you. OK. Then you get into the routine again. She withdraws, you guys get too comfortable.

Then it starts all over again. You are left, scratching your head, wondering...

What then?

Now that I'm thinking of it, wouldn't routine slowly strangle any relationship? Think of it like a book where you already know everything that will happen ahead of time, exactly when it will happen, how it will happen and what the outcome is to be. Not much point in reading it right? Maybe a relationship is no different?

 

[Purple-Haze]

Now that I'm thinking of it, wouldn't routine slowly strangle any relationship? Think of it like a book where you already know everything that will happen ahead of time, exactly when it will happen, how it will happen and what the outcome is to be. Not much point in reading it right? Maybe a relationship is no different?

Well routine isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, there are core set of things you do each day - eat, shower, go to work, bla bla bla. If you live with your SO, you get into a way of doing things. BUT that doesn't mean the R has to go stale. You can minimize this by not spending so much time together.

The problem here is you are proposing a TEMPORARY solution. My point is that you will end up in the same cycle of hot and cold. At some point, something has to give.

I am not saying get on your knees and beg her to tell you what's wrong. You can be a man, be assertive and get her to tell you what's wrong. It's all in how you ask the question - too open and she'll take you for a ride (possibly), too narrow and she'll see it as some kind of threat and get all insecure ("he doesn't want me anymore...I knew it!")

All this stuff about distance and making her want you, etc works from time to time (esp. at the start of a R), BUT there has to be a core understanding b/w the two if an LTR is to be succesful, right?

 

[DJCT]

... too narrow and she'll see it as some kind of threat and get all insecure ("he doesn't want me anymore...I knew it!")

Good insight into how a woman might take it.

All this stuff about distance and making her want you, etc works from time to time (esp. at the start of a R), BUT there has to be a core understanding b/w the two if an LTR is to be succesful, right?

Like discussed previously, I haven't explicitly said "I want X, Y, Z out of this relationship". So maybe that is something that needs to be addressed. Regarding putting in distance to make her want me. I maybe didn't write it clearly... that's not what I meant. Taking time for myself is only tangentially related to her. The relationship is important to me and it might seem like I'm self-centered but it is only one of sevearl parts of my life. I like the girl a ton--no doubt. But like I said before, I think that the problems in our relationship indicate a general lack of me managing my life properly. Taking time for myself is not to manipulate her (to make her want me)---it's to get my life back under my control properly. Although the effect of doing that is that, yes, she will work harder for me---that's not the reason to make space.

 

[Purple-Haze]

Good insight into how a woman might take it.

Like discussed previously, I haven't explicitly said "I want X, Y, Z out of this relationship". So maybe that is something that needs to be addressed. Regarding putting in distance to make her want me. I maybe didn't write it clearly... that's not what I meant. Taking time for myself is only tangentially related to her. The relationship is important to me and it might seem like I'm self-centered but it is only one of sevearl parts of my life. I like the girl a ton--no doubt. But like I said before, I think that the problems in our relationship indicate a general lack of me managing my life properly. Taking time for myself is not to manipulate her (to make her want me)---it's to get my life back under my control properly. Although the effect of doing that is that, yes, she will work harder for me.

I totally agree with you here. If you are taking time for yourself to build your own self, then that will likely create positive change that has a chance of resulting in some permanent results (as opposed to push-pull games).

However, how do you know that she won't perceive your time away as some kind of indication that all is not well? How do you know she won't take it personally that you would rather spend some of your time at the gym and with your buddies at a pub than ALL of your time with her? She is going to wonder.

What I am wondering is why you cannot use your knowledge of her, the R and your own verbal skills to set some boundaries, lay out your expectations and give her a chance to get her concerns out too? I guess I am wondering why you guys balk at the idea of just straight up talking and addressing the issue.

So if you take time for yourself (ACTION) and you have ONE talk with her (one where you are in control and give her an opportunity to explain what she's feeling w/out giving her too much space to think too much about it), don't you think that will produce the BEST results?

You get time to yourself (you improve, crave more time with her, etc), she knows what's happening and isn't in the dark and is given time herself to do her own stuff.

Does this make sense or am I totally ensnared in the web of the "matrix"? =O)

 

[DJCT]

However, how do you know that she won't perceive your time away as some kind of indication that all is not well? How do you know she won't take it personally that you would rather spend some of your time at the gym and with your buddies at a pub than ALL of your time with her? She is going to wonder.

I don't know. Part of me would like to explain it to her to be considerate. Another part says it's pointless to try to talk logic with her. So I'm not really sure.

I guess I am wondering why you guys balk at the idea of just straight up talking and addressing the issue.

If you were a guy and had tried this tactic previously you would know why

 

[Purple-Haze]

I don't know. Part of me would like to explain it to her to be considerate. Another part says it's pointless to try to talk logic with her. So I'm not really sure.

If you were a guy and had tried this tactic previously you would know why

OK, what if you removed the question bit? What if you were to tell her, "listen, we both seem to be spending a lot of time lately - I'd love to do some stuff on my own, get back into the swing of things, so tomorrow I'm hitting the gym/going out with the guys/hitting a club with my brother, etc. Don't take this as me not wanting to spend time with you - I just think you and I could really use some personal time."

Here you are telling that she can expect change and that it's not her. Chances are highly likely she'll want to push it further and ask what the hell it all means (so you may not want to add the "it's not you" bit).

Jeez, I never knew communicating with an SO could be this hard! The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

We really are from different planets, aren't we?