MUST READ: Woman's straight up view of the AFC

[Findog]

"Nice" is such a loaded word. I don't think there's anything wrong with being "nice," if by that you mean being well-mannered and civilized when you deal with other people. Usually in this context it is a pleasant euphemism for "boring guy that doesn't excite me sexually."

All I can say from experience is that women want authentic men - men who are strong, confident, decisive, ambitious, and are crystal clear about their intentions and actively go after what they want. They sometimes mistake douchey guys for authentic men because the initial presentation is the same. "Nice" guys are usually too timid and painfully telegraph their lack of confidence and faith in themselves. Not attractive qualities.

 

[MatureDJ]

Most "nice guys" are not the sappy clingy types that bring flowers to a first date. They are just regular average (give or take) looking guys that women don't find physically attractive.

Average girl = considered cute to many guys

Average guy = considered ugly to many girls

I've met a LOT of these "nice guys" and maybe one in twenty is the super insecure sappy type.

I consider the average girl to be a hog!

 

[vatoloco]

"Nice" is such a loaded word.

Clicky

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

The sad truth is that we men often end up having to change certain aspects of our personalities and character to "qualify more" to get with the women we find attractive, while there's seldom ever any similar pressure to do so the other way around. That's why I love big booty women. They're often the greatest sh=t testers, gamers, etc. and their coldness and sometimes outright heartlessness actually ends up producing a positive, rebuilding effect on men's character. In the end, getting with them turns out to be a really wonderful, sexually exciting, stimulating and thrilling experience.

 

[iqqi]

I didn't say anything about Brad Pitt, it was someone else. Posting while intoxicated, lately, my dear iqqi?

You must be in "Brad P's" very close circle to know "he turns off girls" all the time. This must be the most amusing claim of the week. How do you know that? My point is, you can't go off of looks entirely when you judge a guy's attractiveness. Women and men evaluate the opposite sex very differently, men being physical, women using much more sophisticated methods of evaluation. This is something so elementary, that someone like you who has spent a lifetime here should easily appreciate it. Especially since you are supposedly an HB8 who filters hot and not, left and right.

I meant Bradd80.

 

[evan12]

this Girl didnt tell all the truth
nice guys are submissive , not sexy , don't show any sexual desire (so women treat him as asexual ) and in bed cant be aggressive .
if a nice-guy is masculine , not shy from looking at the woman the look that say "I want to **** you" , and dominant women will like him and the most important have boundaries and in bed can be aggressive

don't listen to what women say

 

[goundra]

Almost all women will overlook a LOT if you have enough money. However, in the US, that means MANY millions of $, so it's not really an issue for 99% of guys, if they inherited or won 5 mill $, they'd lose it all in 5 years.

 

[SXS]

Can someone give me a decent definition of what is a nice guy ? Cuz, from what it sounds on this topic, it seems like just your average idiot.
I consider myself a nice guy, and im not this guy she describes at all. In fact it seems that this woman is bitter and angry at something.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Here's how I view it:

A "nice guy's" behavior is transactional in nature.

He unintentionally telegraphs that he is acting a certain way or doing a certain thing in order to buy approval.

The transaction is this: I buy you flowers, therefore I expect you to love me and think I am a white knight.

The way one turns off the nice guy syndrome is to evaluate women as to whether they are suitable to be invited into your life or not. You are vetting them for suitability, and therefore there is no reason to buy their affection with flowers, dinners, etc.

I have always been in lockstep with Anti-Dump. Why go after girls, trying to convince them to like you? That is monkey-dancing at its finest. It stems from the mistaken belief that a man can be universally attractive to women. Women can become universally attractive (makeup, hair, body shape). A man cannot. He can only be attractive to a subset of women. Therefore a man should accentuate his strong points and only go after the 10 to 30% of women who find his type attractive.

Trying to impress women universally will erode you inside.

I grew up being a "nice guy", always trying to show people what a great guy I am by trying to influence them through my behavior. In other words, I was trying to buy their affection. My behavior was transactional in nature. I was an appeaser.

It was so bad that even for most of my adult life, when a woman went into an emotional tirade (even in a business setting) my heart would start pounding and I would have this physiological reaction, that I was about to die or be killed. I realize now that this stems from having a very violent mother who one day, when I was a baby, started choking me until I blacked out. I still remember standing on the front car seat with my father the next day and telling him "Mommy tried to kill me." He laughed it off and said "Don't be ridiculous", and that was that. The damage was done and I had to appease in order to save my life from female violence.

Now I have become my own man and no longer give a sh!t about anyone liking me. This is extremely liberating and very difficult for the very young man to pull off, simply because of youth and lack of experience.

I was going to say that this attitude becoming core to a man is like the weathered face that develops over time, sort of a reward for life experience, and it holds true except I don't have a weathered face, lol. Somehow I drank from the fountain of youth and I think my normal 55 year old "I don't give a sh!t" attitude comes as a shock to people because they don't imagine me to be any older than 40, and usually younger than that.

But as you can see, a mature tongue does love to wag and get off-topic.

The nutshell here is that appeasing is transactional in nature and is a certain begging that the other person will not treat you badly or reject you.

Work from a paradigm of abundance. You are the KING. You judge who is and who is not worthy of being in your sphere. That will kill the nice guy once and for all.

"The Boy Must Die".

Ponder that statement. We tend to coddle and protect that timid little boy inside of us, and rightly so in a sense because he was so unprepared for life when all these strange things happened to him. He was hurt and rejected through life, and the only reaon why "must" have been because he was unlovable.

He saw his sisters receive love from his parents just for being cute and just for being girls. But he started to realize that if he jumped up on Daddy's lap, strangely he didn't give him the same affection that his sister received just for being her.

So he figured out that if he did things, he would receive attention and affection from his daddy. He wasn't good enough like his sister was. No, he had to earn affection by dancing whatever dance delighted the grown-ups. Only then would he receive the love he craved. So he learned that love was bought through manipulation. That poor little guy... My heart bleeds for him, and yet he must die.

You must kill him today. As long as he lives you will be subconsciously drawn to appeasing others through acting "nice". The problem is that the people you are being nice to subconsciously recognize that you are manipulating them, buying them.

The boy must be the human sacrifice so that you might live. Raise your knife and do it.

You will find that he was only a memory, a mechanism, a set of gears and levers that forced you to behave in a certain way. He is nothing more than bricks in your foundation. To remove those bricks you must shore up the structure with adult realizations (many of which we have learned here). Then the bricks that make up the boy can be removed and dispensed with.

When the boy dies, there will be a man remaining, a man who has no drive to be nice in order to influence and buy the affection of others by being artificially nice to them. Instead, he will be nice just for the sake of being nice, a gift for those around him. He will be nice just because it's the right thing to do where appropriate. No longer will he find himself monkey dancing to buy the affections of women. Instead, his quality of character will be assumed from within himself, a fact of life just as the sky is blue and water is wet. From that standpoint, this new King is in a position to judge who is worthy to live within his kingdom.

 

[backbreaker]

to be frank i dont' think women have the slightest ****ing clue as to what they are talking bout. i really don't. not beucase women are stupid but beucase women dont' analyze things like men do. women do **** then rationalize it using accepted societal explanations.

I think AS is dead on. Right now i'm watching the west wing series for the first time. GREAT series. probably my fav ever. it's getting there. anyway, Sam Seaborne is like, the way i see it, he is supposed to be the apex alpha male. he's not just smart.. he's a genius, literally. he's the most handsome man in the room at all times. he's a snappy dresser, he's witty, the man literally does not have a flaw lol. and if you have watched the show, one of the show's many subplots is sam's lack of success with the opposite sex.

the show literally starts off and when i say start off, i mean the openings scene of the entire series, with him out at a bar talking to some friends, this smoking hot girl looks at home and smiles, he takes her home and fvcks her brains out, gets up in the morning she is all over hiim, but he has to go because just got a text on his pager that says POTUS in accident, and she asks who is her friend that is so important to pass up more sex from a hot girl like me and he says potus is not a friend it's my boss, it's the president of the united states. so she's like oh **** you are like, a boss lol. the guy is hot, smart, literately answers to the president of the united states..

thids should be a man that in real life should just be able to point at women and say you.. here now lol.

now, without giving out the details to the show if you haven't seen it, to make a long story short, he starts calling her all the time telling her how great she is and all this ****, she starts being his 'friend" and they dont' **** anymore. now they are just friends. now there is another reason for this, that i can't disclose but, she stops being attracted to him like that. she now looks up to him but she isn't into him like she was at first.

then he meets this very cute short haird school teacher who he finds out is the cheif of staff's daughter. i mean, she's a freaking school teacher, this dude is smitten with her and she is making all these demands and **** you are going to take me to this play and you are going to do this and we aren't giong to have sex and she just pops up at his job and makes him stop working..a ndi mean, this dude works and is not the type of guy you can just pop up at his job and talk to, and he does all this **** and he can't figure out how to get her to like him lol.. and not only that, she stops talking to him and starts dating some hockey player. i mean she woudl flirt with him all the time and while she happens to be the cheif of staffs daughter i mean she's a playmate or anything this girl should be lucky you are looking at her and he's trying to figure out who to get her attention.

this is a running gag for half the show. smoking hot girl shows up, sees sam, goes oh **** he's hot. throws herself at him, he somehow blows it, doesn't end up getting any lol. that scene where Ansley is singing blame it ont he bossa nova in the bathrub i would have bent her ass over that damn desk i dont' give a **** if the president was watching. how can you possibly be this sexually ignorant is beyond me.

then you have this other guy that works at the office, who is his friend. not ugly, he's a good looking guy, but not as good looking as sam, but unlike sam hie's much, much more sure of himself, he's funny, he doesn't take **** from anyone. i mean, girls break up with him but he doesn't really give a ****. his (hot) assistant is crazy about him, it's one of the shows subplots. unlike sam though he ends up tapping that ass lol. unlike sam, girls aren't intesting gaga ove rhim, but he grows on girls and keeps them interested, even when he's not trying to.

i bring this up beucse, sam is the text book deflation of a nice guy and he is anything but a loser. **** he ends up winning a seat in congress lol. dude still can't get any. and he's good looking! (no homo). it's the will and grace guy. ironically he can't get any on that show either lol.

Sam is none of that in the OP. well not none of it, but that's not him. he's not indecciving. you can't be indecisive and work for the president. he doesn't need any woman. he's rich or at least extremely well off.

sam's lone problem, is exactly what AS pointed out; he doesn't qualify women. he sees a woman, instantly tries to qualify himself to her.. despite that he's the good looking hot shot lawyer who is the deputy communications director in the white house. despite all this, he is too busy trying to convince girls to lke him. what he doesn't' realize is that every last girl he sees just bout ALREADY likes him lol.

 

[SXS]

to be frank i dont' think women have the slightest ****ing clue as to what they are talking bout. i really don't. not beucase women are stupid but beucase women dont' analyze things like men do. women do **** then rationalize it using accepted societal explanations.

I think in the case of this article, written by a women, she is merely projecting her perceptions, which has probably very little to do with the reality of the cases she thinks she is describing. She start talking about how she received letters from professed "nice guys"(as if the biggest jerks around didnt considered themselves as nice guys) who "failed" at relationships(whatever that means, which isn't clear either, but from the perspective of such woman, I think it covers everything, including woman cheating on the guy just because), but she doesn't seem to have detailed insight on who are those people and what they did or didn't do at all. She doesn't know their height, how they look, how much money they have, what kind of woman they are trying to get or even how they are doing it. Then she goes on and on a enourmous rant about insecure and needy guys, which she seems to equate with the "nice guy".

Meh.

 

[Boilermaker]

Here's how I view it:

A "nice guy's" behavior is transactional in nature.

He unintentionally telegraphs that he is acting a certain way or doing a certain thing in order to buy approval.

The transaction is this: I buy you flowers, therefore I expect you to love me and think I am a white knight.

The way one turns off the nice guy syndrome is to evaluate women as to whether they are suitable to be invited into your life or not. You are vetting them for suitability, and therefore there is no reason to buy their affection with flowers, dinners, etc.

I have always been in lockstep with Anti-Dump. Why go after girls, trying to convince them to like you? That is monkey-dancing at its finest. It stems from the mistaken belief that a man can be universally attractive to women. Women can become universally attractive (makeup, hair, body shape). A man cannot. He can only be attractive to a subset of women. Therefore a man should accentuate his strong points and only go after the 10 to 30% of women who find his type attractive.

Trying to impress women universally will erode you inside.

I grew up being a "nice guy", always trying to show people what a great guy I am by trying to influence them through my behavior. In other words, I was trying to buy their affection. My behavior was transactional in nature. I was an appeaser.

It was so bad that even for most of my adult life, when a woman went into an emotional tirade (even in a business setting) my heart would start pounding and I would have this physiological reaction, that I was about to die or be killed. I realize now that this stems from having a very violent mother who one day, when I was a baby, started choking me until I blacked out. I still remember standing on the front car seat with my father the next day and telling him "Mommy tried to kill me." He laughed it off and said "Don't be ridiculous", and that was that. The damage was done and I had to appease in order to save my life from female violence.

Now I have become my own man and no longer give a sh!t about anyone liking me. This is extremely liberating and very difficult for the very young man to pull off, simply because of youth and lack of experience.

I was going to say that this attitude becoming core to a man is like the weathered face that develops over time, sort of a reward for life experience, and it holds true except I don't have a weathered face, lol. Somehow I drank from the fountain of youth and I think my normal 55 year old "I don't give a sh!t" attitude comes as a shock to people because they don't imagine me to be any older than 40, and usually younger than that.

But as you can see, a mature tongue does love to wag and get off-topic.

The nutshell here is that appeasing is transactional in nature and is a certain begging that the other person will not treat you badly or reject you.

Work from a paradigm of abundance. You are the KING. You judge who is and who is not worthy of being in your sphere. That will kill the nice guy once and for all.

"The Boy Must Die".

Ponder that statement. We tend to coddle and protect that timid little boy inside of us, and rightly so in a sense because he was so unprepared for life when all these strange things happened to him. He was hurt and rejected through life, and the only reaon why "must" have been because he was unlovable.

He saw his sisters receive love from his parents just for being cute and just for being girls. But he started to realize that if he jumped up on Daddy's lap, strangely he didn't give him the same affection that his sister received just for being her.

So he figured out that if he did things, he would receive attention and affection from his daddy. He wasn't good enough like his sister was. No, he had to earn affection by dancing whatever dance delighted the grown-ups. Only then would he receive the love he craved. So he learned that love was bought through manipulation. That poor little guy... My heart bleeds for him, and yet he must die.

You must kill him today. As long as he lives you will be subconsciously drawn to appeasing others through acting "nice". The problem is that the people you are being nice to subconsciously recognize that you are manipulating them, buying them.

The boy must be the human sacrifice so that you might live. Raise your knife and do it.

You will find that he was only a memory, a mechanism, a set of gears and levers that forced you to behave in a certain way. He is nothing more than bricks in your foundation. To remove those bricks you must shore up the structure with adult realizations (many of which we have learned here). Then the bricks that make up the boy can be removed and dispensed with.

When the boy dies, there will be a man remaining, a man who has no drive to be nice in order to influence and buy the affection of others by being artificially nice to them. Instead, he will be nice just for the sake of being nice, a gift for those around him. He will be nice just because it's the right thing to do where appropriate. No longer will he find himself monkey dancing to buy the affections of women. Instead, his quality of character will be assumed from within himself, a fact of life just as the sky is blue and water is wet. From that standpoint, this new King is in a position to judge who is worthy to live within his kingdom.

I printed this off and put it in my "Legendary SS Essays of All Time" binder.
Haven't done that for quite some time lately, Thanks, for this.

 

[st_99]

its true what bb said in his post.

from a practical sense and something that you can use in the field, (maybe you should have it as wallpaper on your phone so you dont forget), anytime you're interacting with a girl that you want to potentially hook up with, just ask yourself a simple question so you know if you're on the right or wrong track..

"am i qualifying myself or am i qualifying her?"

I think its a simple straight forward tip you can actually use in the real world that should help.

I remember a a while ago, there was this bartender girl at the local pub that was cute as hell. I would try to flirt with her and gage her interest but no real breakthrough. One day I just straight said to her.. "so, is this it? this is what you want to be doing with your life, working at this bar?" LOL, wouldn't you know it, it took about a half a second and she hopped right up and sat on the cooler box under the counter and got like 6 inches from my face and started going on and on about how she was going to do this and that and the other thing.. i had completely grabbed the frame. Turns out she was a coke head but thats another story... haha.