Must read: The Skinny on Fats

[spesmilitis]

Originally posted my mrruckus in another thread. Covers mythes about cholesterol and saturated fats.

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

I have some questions if anyone knows the answers:

-The article says polyunsats go rancid very easy. Does that mean fried fish is a no-no?
-The article also says cholesterol may be damaged by exposure to heat and oxygen. Does that mean fried and scrambled eggs are a no-no? We should only boil them?

 

[Throttle]

-The article says polyunsats go rancid very easy. Does that mean fried fish is a no-no?

unless you fried it yourself, you have no idea what sort of oil they used. so if you mean fish and chips at a restaurant, etc., then yes. there's much better ways to cook & eat fish anyway... such fish is breaded & fried to cover up the fact that it's usually fairly crappy fish underneath.

-The article also says cholesterol may be damaged by exposure to heat and oxygen. Does that mean fried and scrambled eggs are a no-no? We should only boil them?

like all things, this calls for moderation... i'm skeptical of the oxidant / anti-oxidant stuff, and I'm not convinced the relevant footnote is from a reliable source (i'd be happy to be shown otherwise).

 

[Bonhomme]

-The article says polyunsats go rancid very easy. Does that mean fried fish is a no-no?
-The article also says cholesterol may be damaged by exposure to heat and oxygen. Does that mean fried and scrambled eggs are a no-no? We should only boil them?

Depends upon what's used to fry the food. Saturated fats are actually best for frying. Coconut oil, clarified butter (ghee), and good 'ol fashioned animal fats are what I use whenever I grease a pan or fry anything -- which I rarely do.

Also, all unsaturated oils should be kept out of light. All those unsaturated oils in clear bottles are damaged, and unhealthy. Strictly opaque containers for me. I refrigerate highly unsaturatyed oils, such as flax seed or grapeseed oil.

 

[Bonhomme]

Double post. Ignore.

 

[spesmilitis]

speaking of ghee, I ran across this in wikipedia:

"Properly made ghee should be semi-liquid at room temperature. Better-quality ghee is a rich golden color. The extended shelf-life of ghee (often up to a year or more, depending on purity) is due to the removal of water and albuminous milk-solids that provide a medium for rancidity-causing microbes to grow[2]. At 375-485°F/190-250°C (depending on purity), ghee has virtually the highest smoke point of all clarified butters[3]. This makes ghee safe for cooking at very high temperatures without discoloring or developing a burnt taste, making it superior for deep frying. Until refined vegetable oil came into popular use in India and Pakistan, ghee was the mainstay of all fried dishes."

Awesome, my parents always use ghee.

 

[spesmilitis]

I have a few critisms of the article:

"Nutrients in Butter

The Diet Dictocrats have succeeded in convincing Americans that butter is dangerous, when in fact it is a valued component of many traditional diets and a source of the following nutrients:

Fat-Soluble Vitamins: These include true vitamin A or retinol, vitamin D, vitamin K and vitamin E as well as all their naturally occurring cofactors needed to obtain maximum effect. Butter is America's best source of these important nutrients. In fact, vitamin A"

However, when I read the nutritional label on trader joes organic butter make from grass fed cows, it has some vitamen A and thats it. None of other nutrients listed above were on there.


Also, the same site hosted this article: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/vitamin-a-fetal.html

"Under optimal conditions, humans can indeed convert carotenes to vitamin A. This occurs in the upper intestinal tract by the action of bile salts and fat-splitting enzymes. Of the entire family of carotenes, beta-carotene is most easily converted to vitamin A. Early studies indicated an equivalency of 4:1 of beta-carotene to retinol. In other words, four units of beta-carotene were needed to produce one unit of vitamin A. This ratio was later revised to 6:1 and recent research suggests an even higher ratio.5 This means that you have to eat an awful lot of vegetables and fruits to obtain even the daily minimal requirements of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion."

You only need 36.6 grams of carrots of obtain daily requirement of vitamen A.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20mo.html
36.6 grams is nothing. There might be the issue of conversion, but to my knowledge, conversion is based on what the body needs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Overall, it had good info, but I feel that there is some bias to this. The article makes no reccomendation of what is a good ammount/ratio of saturated fats to consume. Based on how the article was describing it, you'd think its a super food.

I'll leave this which these two articles about fats:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/fatroundtable.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/f_word.htm
John Berardi is pretty reliable, and has no bias that I know of, except for the occasional supplement endorsment.

 

[Throttle]

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/fatroundtable.htm

lots of good stuff here... I think it's interesting to see the emphasis on how to put this stuff into practice in your own diet.

towards the end they talk about pissing off nutritionists... my new favorite recipe is sure to do exactly that:

~8 oz. salmon fillet
1/2 tbsp butter
1 generous splash cream (in the US they call this 'heavy whipping cream' -- basically, milkfat, usually ultrapasteurized for shelf life)
Old Bay seasoning (or whatever you like on your salmon)

season & quickly fry the salmon in the smallest pan you have, remove from pan, add cream to the pan, season some more & boil down to about half the original volume. pour resulting sauce over the fish.

finally, something useful from the French! don't worry, it's only the nutritionists getting a heart attack from this dish, not you (unless you insist on eating it every day for every meal, in which case all bets are off!)

 

[simon]

I love French cooking.

 

[Create Reality]

I love French cooking.

**** yeah! Croissants ftw

 

[spesmilitis]

oh saturated fats, how I missed you so. Lets never fight again.

 

[spesmilitis]

lots of good stuff here... I think it's interesting to see the emphasis on how to put this stuff into practice in your own diet.

towards the end they talk about pissing off nutritionists... my new favorite recipe is sure to do exactly that:


. . . .finally, something useful from the French! don't worry, it's only the nutritionists getting a heart attack from this dish, not you (unless you insist on eating it every day for every meal, in which case all bets are off!)

I was watching All access GSP, and he eats rich french foods frequently. He said something along the lines of he doesn't care, if he was required to eat strict all the time to do MMA, he wouldn't do it. Someone tell him he's doing it[diet] right anyways! Maybe thats the secret of his success. . . .

 

[shagnscoob]

Throttle should write a post on other recipes he uses on a more daily basis

 

[Omen]

Unfortunately, this link.. http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

Is the same problem as stated in my Soy post. Sure we all know that some sat fat is good, and cholesterol, and the whole reasoning behind it when we lift, but as Berardi states, not all fats are bad, and we know this. Its a balance act and moderation act, but if we all want to debate fat, then the last link we need to use is the one above. And again you'll see why if you read my soy post.

Personally, I consume some sat fats, and its for this very reason in his article. (where lies the problem is when that's all Americans eat, along with trans fats)

"Research published in journals such as the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and the Journal of Steroid Biochemistry has indicated that a decrease in dietary fat intake as well as a decrease in saturated fat intake can lead to reductions in the blood concentrations of Testosterone and other androgens."

The one thing out of all this we should really focus on is what Dr Berardi states in his "Fats To Avoid" section of his article. And like he said... There is no room for trans fats in our diet.

Most of us on here are not like your average Joe, and dont eat like them either. We dont mind cooking beef with sat fat in it on occasion, but we also make sure we get our DHA, EPA, and other fats in as well. We eat fish, almonds, and flax. Most other people rely solely on sat/trans fats, and that's where they get into trouble. We are all probably pretty healthy and everything else we do in life pretty much takes care of the sat fat we do eat. We all lift, sleep good probably, get our vit, antioxidants in, drink lots of water, dont smoke, get a good abundance of Omega-3s in, veggies, fruits, etc.

 

[Omen]

I have a few critisms of the article:



Also, the same site hosted this article: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/vitamin-a-fetal.html


Overall, it had good info, but I feel that there is some bias to this. The article makes no reccomendation of what is a good ammount/ratio of saturated fats to consume. Based on how the article was describing it, you'd think its a super food.

Your right about the bias, and its called the Weston A. Price Foundation and all of their anti-talk (I call it garbage)

If you have time and want to get your hands dirty, do some research on them and you'll see why, and what they are all about. Sneaky Sneaky :trouble:

btw... Berardi is a good man

 

[simon]

Unfortunately, this link.. http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

Is the same problem as stated in my Soy post. Sure we all know that some sat fat is good, and cholesterol, and the whole reasoning behind it when we lift, but as Berardi states, not all fats are bad, and we know this. Its a balance act and moderation act, but if we all want to debate fat, then the last link we need to use is the one above. And again you'll see why if you read my soy post.

Personally, I consume some sat fats, and its for this very reason in his article. (where lies the problem is when that's all Americans eat, along with trans fats)

"Research published in journals such as the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and the Journal of Steroid Biochemistry has indicated that a decrease in dietary fat intake as well as a decrease in saturated fat intake can lead to reductions in the blood concentrations of Testosterone and other androgens."

The one thing out of all this we should really focus on is what Dr Berardi states in his "Fats To Avoid" section of his article. And like he said... There is no room for trans fats in our diet.

Most of us on here are not like your average Joe, and dont eat like them either. We dont mind cooking beef with sat fat in it on occasion, but we also make sure we get our DHA, EPA, and other fats in as well. We eat fish, almonds, and flax. Most other people rely solely on sat/trans fats, and that's where they get into trouble. We are all probably pretty healthy and everything else we do in life pretty much takes care of the sat fat we do eat. We all lift, sleep good probably, get our vit, antioxidants in, drink lots of water, dont smoke, get a good abundance of Omega-3s in, veggies, fruits, etc.

Have you read any of Anthony Colpo's stuff? His book on the whole saturated fat/cholesterol issue is the best I've read. Only costs about $10 too.

 

[Omen]

Nope, haven't, but I can say that the LOW fat deal is retarted. Now we all know that there are 9cal per gram, and most Americans could cut it out, but for me, at a bulking stage, and the way I train, my fat is probably 30-33% of my intake per day. Most come from unsaturated and the rest would be from milk, and 2 days a week, BEEF!

I like it when I tell people I drink like 4Tbsp of canola oil a day. They freak out cause they think ALL fat is bad. I remember the first time I did it and my mom went.. That's disgusting. lol Of course they are all educated now, but go around and tell people you do that and see their reaction.

You know its kind of like the carb deal. People go... Oh man I gotta go low carb, have NO idea what carbs do or are used for in the body, and they go to these extremes, like 12g a day.

IMHO... If people eat 300g of carbs a day and do 150g a day, that's low carb. That's a 50% reduction, and a 600kcal deficit per day, resulting in... 4,200cal per week which is more than enough to lose a tad over 1lb of fat per week with exercise as well.

WHAT? You mean I can eat 150g of carbs and still lose weight and not kill myself from not going down to 12g? Well, if you eat 300g a day sure you can. People dont think, that's all.

I saw a girl in a class once that was 2hrs long, and she had 3 cans of pop in that amount of time. That is about 150g of carbs, and sugar at that. Were talking downed them all by 11am.

 

[Throttle]

If you have time and want to get your hands dirty, do some research on them and you'll see why, and what they are all about. Sneaky Sneaky :trouble:

all I'm hearing here is inuendo, and apparently my research skills are insufficient to turn up the dirt. their conspiracy is so big that hardly anyone can criticize them and turn up on Google. their funding appears to come from dues-paying members, not the meat & dairy industries (as one might expect). are some of their views stated with excessive confidence? probably. are they overselling the dangers of soy & benefits of animal fats? again, probably. but I don't understand this [shhhhh..... they're actually evil] innuendo.

 

[Throttle]

*crickets chirping*

that's what I thought.

 

[Omen]

all I'm hearing here is inuendo, and apparently my research skills are insufficient to turn up the dirt. their conspiracy is so big that hardly anyone can criticize them and turn up on Google. their funding appears to come from dues-paying members, not the meat & dairy industries (as one might expect). are some of their views stated with excessive confidence? probably. are they overselling the dangers of soy & benefits of animal fats? again, probably. but I don't understand this [shhhhh..... they're actually evil] innuendo.

The thing is that not everything will turn up on Google. There are many articles written about that stuff that get put in magazines that the consumer doesn't get, nor can you just look at on Google. Some things you can find sure, but not everything. Google doesn't spit out every publication I have here when you search. Would be cool, but it doesn't.

For instance the one link I sent had to be copied from a digital subscription.

I wish there were more people on here to debate this, but this isn't the best site for that obviously. There wont be many who are aware of the WAP foundation or who have heard of it, so you cant really get more opinions.

I'm just stating what I can tell you from years in this area, and how they have been criticized many other times.

To each his own I guess, but for now, on the soy topic on the other thread... I'll continue to eat my soy protein

 

[Throttle]

okay, well the picture you're drawing is that the supplement industry is opposed to WAP. that suits me just fine. i'm not saying that i'm for anything the supplement industry is against, but in my mind it's a fair place to start.