Murk's relationship - SOS

[kavi]

You can keep her around but punish punish punish so she never feels the same about vacation slutting, ons or mmf.

 

[Murk]

The fact that you went through her phone is too disgusting and unhealthy to ignore. That is your problem.
If a girl would look through my phone, she would probably feel insecure and get the wrong idea. But that's not my problem. Everyone has shlt in their past, but why would you want to go through someone else's toilet?

I looked through the phone because I had a gut feeling, I was right, not much more to it, looking through phones is something I’ve never done in the past.

You can keep her around but punish punish punish so she never feels the same about vacation slutting, ons or mmf.

What do you mean punish?

 

[kavi]

What do you mean punish?

Dread Game, dont be insecure, dont be weak, stay in control, if shes into you then you keep her dangling and make her regret big time her past actions. Withdraw somewhat for a while until she really regrets her actions.

Dont be upset, be in control.

"Why am I trying to make you happy when you just gave it up to so many losers"

I guess this strategy could possibly backfire but its important for men to be able to punish women for these types of indiscretions (ie sleeping with guys like Pan). Men need to be able to make women regret these things cos otherwise we are gonna have to next too many women.

Girls in my ethnic group (South Asian) here in the UK esp London have a thing about casual s3x with black guys, the only thing I can do is punish punish punish and I am always looking for new angles.

 

[andreihaha]

Dread Game, dont be insecure, dont be weak, stay in control, if shes into you then you keep her dangling and make her regret big time her past actions. Withdraw somewhat for a while until she really regrets her actions.

Dont be upset, be in control.

"Why am I trying to make you happy when you just gave it up to so many losers"

I guess this strategy could possibly backfire but its important for men to be able to punish women for these types of indiscretions (ie sleeping with guys like Pan). Men need to be able to make women regret these things cos otherwise we are gonna have to next too many women.

Girls in my ethnic group (South Asian) here in the UK esp London have a thing about casual s3x with black guys, the only thing I can do is punish punish punish and I am always looking for new angles.

Why would he punish her for her past? If she was good to him, why punish good behaviour?
Not to mention that punishing and revenge is a fool's errand.
If someone hurts you, you either forgive(which may take time or not) or walk away. Anything else is pointless and will only cause you more pain.

 

[Bethatsocialguy]

Personally, I wouldnt want a girl that has been ran through. Under 10 is enough. These women don't realise the consequence of their actions. I wouldn't settle for that. There are women out that have a low body count. Keep her as a **** buddy if you want but keep your options open. I wouldnt want the mother of my children to have had a hoe phase. Poor decision

 

[kavi]

Why would he punish her for her past? If she was good to him, why punish good behaviour?
Not to mention that punishing and revenge is a fool's errand.
If someone hurts you, you either forgive(which may take time or not) or walk away. Anything else is pointless and will only cause you more pain.

Its not pointless. Even walking away is a form of punishment.

Punishing women for indiscretions esp with other guys or other types of guys is important, because it removes the attraction or mystique or whatever from those experiences. A women can have a hoe phase and then tell herself the phase is over, but that doesnt mean it wont happen again or that there is no power or attraction to that type of behaviour. This is why its important to punish them cos it removes the attraction to that behaviour, but ofc your frame has to be spot on otherwise it may not work out. She has to know your value is much higher than the value of that behaviour then you put the two side by side and tell her one is the opposite of the other and make her FEEL it.

Next time casual s3x, mmf, vacation s3x just wont seem as cool to her and the guys attempting to get it will look beta and unattractive.

A few examples: A girl I knew and we kinda had a thing, slept with a guy I didnt like (this happened when we werent talking) so when I found out I was somewhat cruel to her and made her regret it big time.

Because I was able to give her strong emotional (negative) consequences for her actions with that guy, he now drops much lower in her eyes and that behaviour (casual sex), and so you are taking power away from it. Because your ability to hurt her emotionally is much more powerful than either his masculine power or the value of the act to the women.

Also, the South Asian women, that I plan to be married to, there is a culture of s3x with black guys before marriage, but then even when married some of these girls cheat on their husbands esp with black guys. So I need to remove the mystique and masculine attraction of said black guys. Easy. I call the girls out, compare myself to them side by side, dread game, repeat repeat repeat, until all the mystique, attraction and masculine power of said behaviour is gone.

Most guys are just trying to get stuff (s3x, love, relationships, marriage, loyalty etc) from women but lack the ability to really punish women for disloyalty ie giving it up casually to lesser guys.

 

[Murk]

Its not pointless. Even walking away is a form of punishment.

Punishing women for indiscretions esp with other guys or other types of guys is important, because it removes the attraction or mystique or whatever from those experiences. A women can have a hoe phase and then tell herself the phase is over, but that doesnt mean it wont happen again or that there is no power or attraction to that type of behaviour. This is why its important to punish them cos it removes the attraction to that behaviour, but ofc your frame has to be spot on otherwise it may not work out. She has to know your value is much higher than the value of that behaviour then you put the two side by side and tell her one is the opposite of the other and make her FEEL it.

Next time casual s3x, mmf, vacation s3x just wont seem as cool to her and the guys attempting to get it will look beta and unattractive.

A few examples: A girl I knew and we kinda had a thing, slept with a guy I didnt like (this happened when we werent talking) so when I found out I was somewhat cruel to her and made her regret it big time.

Because I was able to give her strong emotional (negative) consequences for her actions with that guy, he now drops much lower in her eyes and that behaviour (casual sex), and so you are taking power away from it. Because your ability to hurt her emotionally is much more powerful than either his masculine power or the value of the act to the women.

Also, the South Asian women, that I plan to be married to, there is a culture of s3x with black guys before marriage, but then even when married some of these girls cheat on their husbands esp with black guys. So I need to remove the mystique and masculine attraction of said black guys. Easy. I call the girls out, compare myself to them side by side, dread game, repeat repeat repeat, until all the mystique, attraction and masculine power of said behaviour is gone.

Most guys are just trying to get stuff (s3x, love, relationships, marriage, loyalty etc) from women but lack the ability to really punish women for disloyalty ie giving it up casually to lesser guys.

You’re not well mate

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

As a black guy that dates outside his race, I absolutely refuse to date mudsharks or former cleat chasers. They are pretty easy to spot out though tbh.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Meh, I politely disagree with the majority here, I dont believe in the "never ask a girl her notch count", on the contrary, I try to find out as soon as possible (I will just say **** it and plain ask on date 3 if it hasnt come up). Im currently very happy with my current LTR so it worked for me.

Sound like OPs relatioship is over, maybe it has been for a while. Make it official or not, break up or not, but should already be looking for a better girl.

 

[RangerMIke]

If this really bothers the OP then he has to let this one go.

He can't help how this makes him feel and if he tried to ignore it, that wouldn't work. He needs to find a chick that hasn't been around the block as much as this one... they are hard to find, but they are out there. Good luck.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yes BE made great points but she is comparing my past with this girls past, but I can hide my past, I socialise well and parents love me. Nobody will judge me.

I made a point of asking my girl if she had any previous trauma, a reason to make bad decisions she hasnt. She had a seemingly stress free upbringing with both parents, grand parents and siblings. She’s not the same as me. She broke up with her first love at 21 after 6 years and had only slept with one person. I do get it, I just don’t like it.

In my mind it just says 30 men didn’t commit to her, she tried to say some were boyfriends but I seriously doubt that she’s only ever mentioned her first ex in the 4 years I’ve known her. I’d be doing myself a disservice providing for her.

Only for so long...trust me it will always be found out at some point, and likely in the craziest way you'd never imagine. Also, the longer it takes to be found out the worse the reaction will be.

You are only fooling yourself to think this is going to stay hidden forever. The proper move is to sit whoever you are dating down at some point once things get more serious and bring all of this stuff up to them and let them know that was your past and you've made a lot of changes in your life since then. Either they will accept it or not, but at least you won't be constantly looking over your shoulder hoping they don't find out and acting like you are a magician hiding something behind the curtain.

 

[TheProspect]

This thread is a perfect example of "Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to."

Ignorance is bliss, and quite often seeking to attain full disclosure & complete information causes more suffering & problems then it avoids.

That being said: Is a girl's past behaviour indicative of future behaviour? Absolutely.

Should she be forever condemned for her past actions? Well @Murk, that's up for you to decide. Judgement isn't really a choice, it's a subconscious feeling for the most part. Either you can emotionally look past a girl's past behaviours, or you can't, and it seems to be the latter for you (in that case, I second @EyeBRollin: Dump her)...

For me personally, I try to judge women for who they are today and how they act around me in real-time, it's about the vibe I get while in their company. It can be difficult, but it involves not going through their phone, not looking at their social media accounts, not asking questions I don't want to know the answer to... Why do I avoid those things? Because I know certain information will influence me, even just subconsciously, to the point my judgements will prevent me from being able to enjoy their presence in this moment.
(This does not mean you should completely abstain from judging a woman, you should have standards of course, but your judgement should be more centred on her current behaviour and, most importantly, her behaviour towards you, rather than uncovering past perceived indiscretions to fault her for.)

To me, dating is not about finding the perfect women to LTR or make a plate, rather it's about living each moment to its fullest and enjoying the company of the feminine spirit.


And Murk, buddy, I dated the hot 21-year-old virgin who looked great on paper for an LTR, and to whom I was her first ever sexual partner and LTR. In hindsight, it wasn't what it was cracked up to be and looking back we didn't have the greatest chemistry and she was kinda.... boring.
After that experience with the virgin, while still very important, partner count and virginity carry much less weight when it comes to who I dedicate my time and energy to. Vibe & chemistry has now become way more paramount to me. Ask yourself about this chick: Is there a connection? Do you get along? Is your time in her company filled with laughs, fun, and adventure?


What @BeExcellent wrote resonates with me because it reminds of me of one of the women I started seeing casually recently...

... despite being very physically attractive, this woman on paper is someone I would never LTR and she displays multiple red flags. I can infer that she has probably been a h0e in the past. But you know what, after only seeing each other for a month (even though we've known each other for 2 years), I already feel like I have a connection with her that I haven't had with any other plate, or even within my LTRs. The vibe and chemistry is just there -- we understand each other because we had very similar upbringings and have made a lot of the same mistakes. The result is we can be open & vulnerable with each other because we know the other can relate and that allows us to be our authentic selves, instead of wearing a mask and being someone we're not... It's rare to find someone you have this much in common with and who it feels natural to just be yourself around without fear of judgement -- probably even more rare than finding a low mileage partner. I am experiencing high interest and chemistry like I never have before...

The kicker is that I'm moving across the country for my new occupation in a few months. Her and I know our time together is finite. We have no incentive to hide anything from each other, instead, we choose to enjoy each other's presence and live fully in the moment while it lasts. I think that's the best way to live your life: Right now, in this moment.

If you can't remain present with a chick Murk, and you can't push past the thoughts of judgement and it's preventing you from enjoying her company, then you need to move on for both of your sakes.

---

You hide your past Murk because you're afraid of being judged for it. So does this chick. Is her attempts to avoid painting a negative image of herself any worse than your own attempts? I grant that female promiscuity has greater negative implications than male promiscuity, but I don't think you can necessarily fault her for wanting to portray herself in a positive light... She likes you, bro... When you like someone that last thing you want to do is risk jeopardizing things by oversharing unflattering information about yourself. Chalk it up however you want, but you discovered these things about her due to actions stemming from your own insecurities. That reveals a lot more about yourself than it does about her...

... but imagine dating a chick whose interest is so high that she accepts and is non-judgemental about your past, no matter how checkered it may be... because she loves who you are today. Imagine the connection you could cultivate when you can truly be yourself around a woman you vibe with (whilst retaining red pill awareness obviously). A connection like that is rare.


My final word is if you are unable to let her past go, you will need to let her go.
Find the lesson in this and integrate it in your dating life going forward. Best of luck.

 

[Murk]

You gotta find the strength to accept to reset her count and yours.

To you are my first now (she and you to each other).

It takes mental strength. The only thing that can "erase a body count" is what you build in the relationship and never look back

I can do this, but the thought of her going to some dudes house she met on bumble to smash then making me wait 3 dates just 4 months later is pissing me off.

She came over yesterday and I couldn’t engage with her, she knows something is up, probably what too, because she’s not pushing or probing.

I am so apprehensive to pull the trigger on this because she makes me feel good and is a good woman, I just can’t shake my disdain for this girl. Why she’s not taken the hint and left this morning I don’t know, I’m gonna tell her I need space.

EDIT: I told her how I feel, and the disgust, she's adamant she's not a hoe, she didn't actively lie, she chose to forget many situations, felt low self-esteem. Got played. I told her I feel like I'm buying something everyone got for free, she said I'm being very unfair for judging on her past when I wasn't meant to know. "I've met many handsome men since we met I didn't go for any of them."

She's accusing me of lying and being a hoe too, a hypocrite, she's dead right, I told her men and women aint the same.

"I've not been on hoe rampages since I've met you these last 4 years, you know I'm not that person"

Kinda got me because she's not that person.

I'm trying to hold these hoes accountable. I told her in future never let a man know your past if you want a happily ever after. Tough convo, but I couldn't sit with it. She's still here rambling, I'm about to take my God son out for his Bday.

 

[Gamisch]

Read the entire thread and there is some great advice giving already.

One thing to consider, is that you not only hold her accountable for her past but also her future.

You would like to break up just to test her , and see what she does. It's a lose- lose. Will she go on a hoe rampage again, or will she commit to a guy who gives less F's about her past and be locked down for 5+ years? Meanwhile you'll be dating again, and lbh, scraping the bottom of the barrel type women( if not in looks in behaviour). Good luck finding a new one who is just as committed like this one. I've done this several times, judging a 6,5 /7 woman way harder on her flaws then a 8+ woman and even monkey branched from 6,5 to 8. Only to be in a WAY worse situation
and reminiscing about the 6,5. Huge gamble.


So you got a good girl, if I recall correctly not the prettiest but far from ugly, but with some stains on her past. You might have to act. Pretend you were in a bad spot mentally, and just tread her good for now. She won't be able to undo her past anyway, and believe me, a new woman wont bring you less head aches.

The darkest variation would be pretend like everything is fine, while you actively try to monkeybranche for a better option. It's what women do...but we also know you need at least 6 months to be able to really judge a woman. All your current girl needs is a Murk looking guy who is more into her..( and doesnt tell her he visits prostitutes).


Dont ever forget women know EXACTLY where a man stands. They dating serious since 15 y.o. She reads all your insecurities, so you will need to "frame yourself up" TODAY (even if it is for practice purposes, the next woman might not be as forgiving as this one bro)
You might end up missing this one..

 

[Dr.Suave]

the thought of her going to some dudes house she met on bumble to smash then making me wait 3 dates just 4 months later is pissing me off.


I feel like I'm buying something everyone got for free

I think this is very valid and good enough reason to ghost and block her from everywhere.

Here´s something I never shared before. Just before I met my current LTR, I met this girl: She said she was gonna make me wait until marriage to have sex with her.

"Are you a virgin then?" I asked, That´s what she seemed to be implying all the time wtih several comments she made about her not bein a hoe, not sleeping around etc.

She answered me: "No, I had sex only once like 10 years ago with some dude. After that, I decided to wait until marriage to have sex again".

I was like wtf this girl is fukin crazy. I f0cking ghosted and blocked her from everywhere. She spent three days in a row trying to call me.

My younger sister has a female friend whos about to marry and she is a similar case, she is not a virgin but decided to make her current bf wait until marriage to have sex, and the f0kin idiot is going along with it, wtf. The thirst of AFCs is real.

Getting back to the girl I ghosted/Blocked, she didnt had any other flaw. Everyone was telling me to "just dont care" about it and LTR her. I didnt listen to them, I listened to me, and 1 day after I Ghosted/blocked her I met my current LTR and I never been happier, its been more than 6 months and no regrets so far on ghosting/blocking her. This time the gass WAS greener.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I can do this, but the thought of her going to some dudes house she met on bumble to smash then making me wait 3 dates just 4 months later is pissing me off.

She came over yesterday and I couldn’t engage with her, she knows something is up, probably what too, because she’s not pushing or probing.

I am so apprehensive to pull the trigger on this because she makes me feel good and is a good woman, I just can’t shake my disdain for this girl. Why she’s not taken the hint and left this morning I don’t know, I’m gonna tell her I need space.

EDIT: I told her how I feel, and the disgust, she's adamant she's not a hoe, she didn't actively lie, she chose to forget many situations, felt low self-esteem. Got played. I told her I feel like I'm buying something everyone got for free, she said I'm being very unfair for judging on her past when I wasn't meant to know. "I've met many handsome men since we met I didn't go for any of them."

She's accusing me of lying and being a hoe too, a hypocrite, she's dead right, I told her men and women aint the same.

"I've not been on hoe rampages since I've met you these last 4 years, you know I'm not that person"

Kinda got me because she's not that person.

I'm trying to hold these hoes accountable. I told her in future never let a man know your past if you want a happily ever after. Tough convo, but I couldn't sit with it. She's still here rambling, I'm about to take my God son out for his Bday.

You are just really insecure bro. You keep trying to defend it but the more you try and defend it with your actions the more insecure you appear. That's to us on a forum reading words.

Imagine how you appear to her in person?

And you ARE being a hypocrite but not for the reason she is saying, although she may have a valid point as well.

You are being a hypocrite because you went and unscrupulously found all her Dirty Landry, which wasn't yours to go find, while you sit around acting like you have none of your own, when the truth is your dirty laundry is probably 5x worse than hers.

No offense but if I was her I would dump your ass.

 

[corrector]

You are just really insecure bro. You keep trying to defend it but the more you try and defend it with your actions the more insecure you appear. That's to us on a forum reading words.

Imagine how you appear to her in person?

And you ARE being a hypocrite but not for the reason she is saying, although she may have a valid point as well.

You are being a hypocrite because you went and unscrupulously found all her Dirty Landry, which wasn't yours to go find, while you sit around acting like you have none of your own, when the truth is your dirty laundry is probably 5x worse than hers.

No offense but if I was her I would dump your ass.

That is aside the point he likes to see hookers behind her back. All this nonsense happened literally the same week after he saw the last hooker and bragged about having this gf and saying he does not need sex from prostitutes because he gets great sex from her. He refuses to tell her claiming it will hurt her. Now he will really need sex from prostitutes if he breaks up.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

L

I can do this, but the thought of her going to some dudes house she met on bumble to smash then making me wait 3 dates just 4 months later is pissing me off.

This is why you date girls with genuine high interest in the first place. If a girl makes you wait 4 months to smash then you were not her first choice! Next girl you decide to date, drop her ass if you haven’t gotten any by the third date within reasonable terms.

 

[Murk]

You are just really insecure bro. You keep trying to defend it but the more you try and defend it with your actions the more insecure you appear. That's to us on a forum reading words.

Imagine how you appear to her in person?

And you ARE being a hypocrite but not for the reason she is saying, although she may have a valid point as well.

You are being a hypocrite because you went and unscrupulously found all her Dirty Landry, which wasn't yours to go find, while you sit around acting like you have none of your own, when the truth is your dirty laundry is probably 5x worse than hers.

No offense but if I was her I would dump your ass.

I’m not going lie I have a past, she said the same thing too. So because I have a past I must accept everything that comes my way and not allowed to have feelings/judgement? I’m also able to provide despite my past, the very thing a man strives for,so as long as I’m a good man with resources willing to share, what’s the problem? What m saying is my past doesn’t detract from what I can offer as a man, that’s why nobody irl cares about my past.

You’re right I’m insecure, I’ll stop defending that, I just feel I’m allowed to be a hypocrite because you get one life and have to do what’s best for you.

I still do love this ho and she’s a good woman, which surprises me because everything I read says she can’t be worthwhile but she is. I think that’s why I’m so conflicted, maybe I should try to move past this with her for my own growth regarding insecurity and jealousy?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I’m not going lie I have a past, she said the same thing too. So because I have a past I must accept everything that comes my way and not allowed to have feelings/judgement? I’m also able to provide despite my past, the very thing a man strives for,so as long as I’m a good man with resources willing to share, what’s the problem? What m saying is my past doesn’t detract from what I can offer as a man, that’s why nobody irl cares about my past.

You’re right I’m insecure, I’ll stop defending that, I just feel I’m allowed to be a hypocrite because you get one life and have to do what’s best for you.

I still do love this ho and she’s a good woman, which surprises me because everything I read says she can’t be worthwhile but she is. I think that’s why I’m so conflicted, maybe I should try to move past this with her for my own growth regarding insecurity and jealousy?

No you don't have to. But what you SHOULD be is honest with her and not acting like you are some "holier than thou" person. You have a chance to really build a deep connection with her by allowing yourself to be a little vulnerable here.

In any longterm good relationship, that HAS to happen at some point. This seems like a pretty freaking good point to me, but you do what you want.

But maybe that's the real problem here and you are using what you found as an excuse to do what you are always going to do when a situation gets too "real".

The issue with running away from problems in your life is that they always can run faster than you can and are going to catch up to you no matter how many times you try to escape. At some point you'll need to face them head on and deal with them. Only you can know when you are ready to.

In the meantime, you can expect the same issues to crop up, which are not really based on anything she has done, but based on you internal monologue to yourself and your internal belief system about yourself.

It may not be finding out she has banged lots of guys before you, but it will always be something you'll use when that time comes when you feel the need to run away.