Murk's relationship - SOS

[Travel memoir21]

You have to be realistic. In today's society, this is normal.

On the one hand, women are told they can have their freedom and do what they want. On the other hand, they know they'll be judged by men if they tell them about it. So they lie.

If you want to find a woman that's a virgin at marriage you have to go to some middle eastern or religious conservative country and find a girl from a village. Go visit her parents to ask for her hand and don't forget to bring a goat.

Sometimes I wish arranged marriage were more common in the Christian faith and that our women had the modesty and chastity of the women in islam.

 

[Foe]

I need to put my current situation and thoughts into one place and need everyone's advice, regardless of your age and experience.

I'm in over my head, I've matured mentally and financially in the last 5 years (I'm 33) so much I'm ready to skip to the marriage and kids stage. But foregoing my qualification.

I'm in a relationship with a girl I've known 4 years who I deemed LTR worthy, but since (1-2 months ago) learned about her promiscuous past (that she hid) due to going through her phone and seeing a complete list of sexual conquests (well aware she would have left some out). Her number is about 30. She says that's not high, I say your hoe friends shouldn't be the benchmark. She says it could be a lot more if she wanted, bravo clap clap have a fvcking medal you wh0re.

She's had 2 MMF threesomes 10 years ago. 1 she admitted to while I was spinning her (and didn't care about her) and another she kept secret. Now I'm thinking of the next relationship stages I don't think I can let this slide. She's submissive, can pair bond, etc etc but I don't think I can ever respect her.

The worst part is I've seen these men, I looked through her blocked Whatsapp contact list and correlated names in her notes to names on the screen, so I've seen these guys and it can't be unseen.

I kind of like the fact the majority are attractive strong men, but also torn because I want a girl that's been in a few LTRs with low count. She's always told me about her ex doctor bf of 6-8 years. She never mentioned everything in between. I feel duped, like I don't know her, and I told her this. Her respose is "go find a virgin then" well no, I'd rather find an honest women.

She protests she told me her number is 30, "I told you already, I'm sure I told you it was 30" - as men we all know if a women tells you her number that's going to stick, I won't let her gaslight me here.

My issue is, she was with her first from 15-21 years old, all good so far, then went on a self professed "hoe phase" for the next 5 year, got back with her ex for 1 year and didn't work out then met me 6 months later.

I just think it's better to start fresh with a new girl and vet properly or with a girl who is honest. I met her at 29, I only realise now, that she'd lead a life and looking to settle. I even asked her, am I the first guy that wears a suit and has a proper job you have been with, she said yes, that kinda hurt because I thought she had better judgement. I feel she's settling for the best thing that came along, despite the fact I'm going to be her best no matter what.

I'm so torn because she has great mother/wife qualities, same political/relgious views and she's unvaxxed. I just feel lied to and duped, and I've told her this. I just needed to vent SS.

Keep complaining about it to her and you'll be single soon enough. She sees all your angst on the subject as weak, insecure and threatened by other males.... it's a massive turn off for her.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

99% of all women have a high notch count. Higher than they would ever admit. Women are more sexual than men, and they enjoy a much, much greater abundance. You aren't likely to find a woman who has only slept with 0-5 guys unless you find an 18yo or 19yo (and even that is no guarantee), or a girl so unattractive that she couldn't fulfill her own desires with men.

Unless you have STRONG reason to believe a woman is cheating on you, I wouldn't suggest going through her phone. And I would not ever advise asking a girl about her notch count. It really doesn't matter. Judge a woman by her actions, and decide whether to invest in her based on that.

 

[bat soup]

Sometimes I wish arranged marriage were more common in the Christian faith and that our women had the modesty and chastity of the women in islam.

There are still countries where this is done. For example, Lebanon, which is almost 50% Christian.

But then you need to ask yourself if this is really what you want. Do you genuinely want to stay with the same woman your whole life or will you get bored and start to crave variety?

 

[SoSuave666]

Oh murky murk. It has been fun seeing all my predictions come true.

you can either dump her now and complete my prediction, OR you can dump her later (or even worse be dumped by her. Make no mistake she sees your insecurities plain as day and just the fact you are discussing her past relationships is giving her the upper hand). Either way my prediction is right, this was a failed relationship the moment you typed the words out that she was unattractive to you. I said it was your ego, that was true. I told you you’d find out about her past lovers and become more insecure, also true. You are in a downward spiral and losing control. The relationship is over, the only person who doesn’t see it is you. Stick it out long enough and she’ll break up with you. You may be even lucky enough to find out she’s cheating on ya.

 

[Steno]

You have to stop focusing on her past because otherwise you will drive yourself crazy and disqualify 99.9999% of women. An overwhelming majority of women have a slutty past, all you can do is focus on her current lifestyle and attitudes and see if she has matured past that stage.

In the future you don't ask a woman about her sexual history, you should be able to estimate it based on her vibe and what her social life was like in the past.

Also I think you should break up with her, this relationship is damaged beyond repair. You already broke the trust by creeping into her phone and you made it worse by confronting her and complaining about it. Its also EXTREMELY WEIRD that she keeps a list on her phone about her sexual past, I've never heard of women doing stuff like that. Her sexual escapades aren't that big of a deal, but the fact that you said she has a list weirds me out, its like shes trying to cherish all of those moments or something.

 

[Young OG]

I need to put my current situation and thoughts into one place and need everyone's advice, regardless of your age and experience.

I'm in over my head, I've matured mentally and financially in the last 5 years (I'm 33) so much I'm ready to skip to the marriage and kids stage. But foregoing my qualification.

I'm in a relationship with a girl I've known 4 years who I deemed LTR worthy, but since (1-2 months ago) learned about her promiscuous past (that she hid) due to going through her phone and seeing a complete list of sexual conquests (well aware she would have left some out). Her number is about 30. She says that's not high, I say your hoe friends shouldn't be the benchmark. She says it could be a lot more if she wanted, bravo clap clap have a fvcking medal you wh0re.

She's had 2 MMF threesomes 10 years ago. 1 she admitted to while I was spinning her (and didn't care about her) and another she kept secret. Now I'm thinking of the next relationship stages I don't think I can let this slide. She's submissive, can pair bond, etc etc but I don't think I can ever respect her.

The worst part is I've seen these men, I looked through her blocked Whatsapp contact list and correlated names in her notes to names on the screen, so I've seen these guys and it can't be unseen.

I kind of like the fact the majority are attractive strong men, but also torn because I want a girl that's been in a few LTRs with low count. She's always told me about her ex doctor bf of 6-8 years. She never mentioned everything in between. I feel duped, like I don't know her, and I told her this. Her respose is "go find a virgin then" well no, I'd rather find an honest women.

She protests she told me her number is 30, "I told you already, I'm sure I told you it was 30" - as men we all know if a women tells you her number that's going to stick, I won't let her gaslight me here.

My issue is, she was with her first from 15-21 years old, all good so far, then went on a self professed "hoe phase" for the next 5 year, got back with her ex for 1 year and didn't work out then met me 6 months later.

I just think it's better to start fresh with a new girl and vet properly or with a girl who is honest. I met her at 29, I only realise now, that she'd lead a life and looking to settle. I even asked her, am I the first guy that wears a suit and has a proper job you have been with, she said yes, that kinda hurt because I thought she had better judgement. I feel she's settling for the best thing that came along, despite the fact I'm going to be her best no matter what.

I'm so torn because she has great mother/wife qualities, same political/relgious views and she's unvaxxed. I just feel lied to and duped, and I've told her this. I just needed to vent SS.

This girl is a hoe. I would never LTR a girl with that high of a body count. Plus, she had 2 three somes with two men. Those guys pretty much tag teamed her. That makes her a dirty slVt.

There are plenty of girls in this world. You can easily find a better one. But, don't go asking about there body counts. You should be able to figure them out by the way they act and information they give you about there past. My gf has been with less then 8 men.

Drop this girl now or she will eventually cheat and/or drop you.

 

[CBear]

Kinda interesting seeing that you have thought about this much more since the last time you posted about it in the Asian Women thread and how in 2 weeks you are completely ready to leave the relationship after you originally mentioned that you wanted to stick it out until December.

Get out. Having peace of mind and not being with a h0e is one of the best decisions you will make and apparently that's important to you. Idc about all the guys saying that it's you thats the problem. If it's a fulfilling relationship that you're looking for, don't settle for this cr@p. If you're looking to have fun, get with hundreds of the girls that are like your gf. Shes obviously has no value if she has let 30 people in her pu$$y for free (she says 30 but that seems to be a common number thrown around, and it's a perfectly even number. Its way more than 30 bro lmao), not to mention 3somes. This is not a girl you wanna stay with long term. Not holding h0es accountable is the reason why the world is in the state that it is.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Murk. Let’s think about this a moment. Who are you? You are an experienced man who has been drunk high and in sexually indiscreet situations before. You went through the whole bad boy phase right? A churchgoing virgin is not going to understand you and you are not going to understand her either. You have the edge that your experience gave you. You can’t put that away. Would a virgin churchgoing woman’s family accept you? Probably not. They’d be more judgy than you are being here. You wouldn’t be pious enough for their unspoiled daughter.

Sure there are other women. Find one who “gets” you like this chick.

Look. When you are both exhausted because your kid has colic and neither of you are sleeping through the night and you are bleary from the stress of a new baby you need a chick who loves you, who loves being in the muck and the mess with you. You need someone who understands you when things are so tough in life you say “Jesus, I quit drugs but this might make me start up again”. and can take it in stride rather than freak out and think you are a weirdo.

You need someone who knows where you’ve been & where you came from.

I can’t tolerate the straight laced white bread dudes out there. I have too much edge. I need edgy. Likewise an edgy dude needs a chick who can handle him, check him, love him through the bull crap that life shells out.

What you really have going on here is a massive Madonna/w h o r e situation in your brain. Women who can straddle both roles are unusual. It sounds like you have one. You suddenly don’t respect her because of things you have found out? You want honest? Seems to me like she’s being honest now that you are asking. She’s also been discreet about her past as many people are.

How many birds have you banged Murk? Does it matter to her? You are still thrill seeking with bloody escorts FFS. Let your pious in-laws tar & feather you for that if they ever found out. See how that goes over with your fantasy Miss Goody 2 Shoes (it won’t). You’ll be made out to be a sex crazed maniac unworthy of fatherhood….

Good GOD man.

Ok. Look. I like you and think your naughtiness makes you a charming Imp. But I understand where that world is and how it operates.

Your GF gives you the gift of acceptance and close to unconditional love. That’s hard to find. Can you digest and accept who she is in spite of her past? If you can you may have something with legs.

Or are you self sabatoging again? Quit.

Just stop.

Give all this a think and you’ll arrive at the right place.

Rooting for you as always. Cheers.

 

[CBear]

Advice from the old lady:

Murk. Let’s think about this a moment. Who are you? You are an experienced man who has been drunk high and in sexually indiscreet situations before. You went through the whole bad boy phase right? A churchgoing virgin is not going to understand you and you are not going to understand her either. You have the edge that your experience gave you. You can’t put that away. Would a virgin churchgoing woman’s family accept you? Probably not. They’d be more judgy than you are being here. You wouldn’t be pious enough for their unspoiled daughter.

Sure there are other women. Find one who “gets” you like this chick.

Look. When you are both exhausted because your kid has colic and neither of you are sleeping through the night and you are bleary from the stress of a new baby you need a chick who loves you, who loves being in the muck and the mess with you. You need someone who understands you when things are so tough in life you say “Jesus, I quit drugs but this might make me start up again”. and can take it in stride rather than freak out and think you are a weirdo.

You need someone who knows where you’ve been & where you came from.

I can’t tolerate the straight laced white bread dudes out there. I have too much edge. I need edgy. Likewise an edgy dude needs a chick who can handle him, check him, love him through the bull crap that life shells out.

What you really have going on here is a massive Madonna/w h o r e situation in your brain. Women who can straddle both roles are unusual. It sounds like you have one. You suddenly don’t respect her because of things you have found out? You want honest? Seems to me like she’s being honest now that you are asking. She’s also been discreet about her past as many people are.

How many birds have you banged Murk? Does it matter to her? You are still thrill seeking with bloody escorts FFS. Let your pious in-laws tar & feather you for that if they ever found out. See how that goes over with your fantasy Miss Goody 2 Shoes (it won’t). You’ll be made out to be a sex crazed maniac unworthy of fatherhood….

Good GOD man.

Ok. Look. I like you and think your naughtiness makes you a charming Imp. But I understand where that world is and how it operates.

Your GF gives you the gift of acceptance and close to unconditional love. That’s hard to find. Can you digest and accept who she is in spite of her past? If you can you may have something with legs.

Or are you self sabatoging again? Quit.

Just stop.

Give all this a think and you’ll arrive at the right place.

Rooting for you as always. Cheers.

I do agree and live by the idea that you should hold another person accountable to the degree that you held yourself accountable. It makes a big difference.

I used to have a buddy who I cut ties with. He was with around 30 women. He started dating a girl from a good family who was only with 2 men prior to him. He stated that he finally felt different and that he never loved someone like this before. Things were going well until after half a year, he started having panic attacks and balling his eyes out to me and our other buddy on numerous occasions, telling us that he regrets being with her and that he hated her for the stupidest reasons imaginable. Looking from the outside, she did everything to make him happy. He ended up breaking up with her after telling her that he wanted to kill himself because of her. The next couple months, he would text me about how he couldn't wait to smash a bunch of h0es and have threesomes and what not. He ended up going on 2 separate dates that didn't work out at all and shortly afterwards, he called me saying that he wanted to get back with the girl. I told him to stay out of my life for good. Poor, naive girl had no respect for herself and took him back. Point of the story is, dude went down the deep end, is miserable now, and was always going to be. I even remember him stating "maybe promiscuity really does ruin a person". Nah bro, it's not just that you were promiscuous, it was that even though you were, you still had unrealistic and totally unequal expectations for the other half.

I do think the less, the better ALWAYS. But if you, as a man, have lacked self control way too much in your life, you have no right to expect something different from someone else.

 

[EyeBRollin]

OMG this is like the BEST post ever. Murk you gotta listen to this, it's so 100% spot on and could be applied to a few others here as well with a "bad boy" past and present, excessively high notch count but who desire a pure and wholesome untouched and unexperienced virgin.

Time to start getting real, you're living in never-never land with that fantasy.

Nah. She’s a sloot. Thou shall not wife a sloot. Murk needs to dump her.

 

[Murk]

A couple of points;

I didn’t ask for this info, I don’t ask girls body counts. I found it in the notes in her phone, she said it was created when her friends were working out everyone they had slept with, last edited in 2019.

Secondly, I had no idea about this past, she does dote on me like @catsmeow says and I had no red flags come up, if I never saw the list I would not be able to tell this girl was a h0e. Maybe I’ve missed something but thinking back there were no clues to this promiscuity.

Yes I tried to give it to December but if it’s always on my mind what’s the actual point of sticking around that long. This poor girl can already feel me pulling back and I can’t be fake around her. Apart from when it was discovered I haven’t been bringing this up to her, I’ve not mentioned it once, it’s all just going on in my head.

 

[Murk]

Very unlikely you will find what you're looking for elsewhere.

Why do you say that?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Why do you say that?

Because you'll find a way to ruin that too.

 

[Murk]

Fair points Murk and as I was walking home tonight, I was thinking - the heart wants what the heart wants. Or doesn't want.

You can't force it and if you're not feeling it, for whatever reason, no matter how fantasy-driven or even irrational your feelings may seem to others, they're your feelings and you gotta own them and do what's right for you.

That said @BeExcellent did make some great points, things to perhaps consider going forward?

JMO, good luck whatever you decide.

And fwiw, I think you're good peeps.

Yes BE made great points but she is comparing my past with this girls past, but I can hide my past, I socialise well and parents love me. Nobody will judge me.

I made a point of asking my girl if she had any previous trauma, a reason to make bad decisions she hasnt. She had a seemingly stress free upbringing with both parents, grand parents and siblings. She’s not the same as me. She broke up with her first love at 21 after 6 years and had only slept with one person. I do get it, I just don’t like it.

In my mind it just says 30 men didn’t commit to her, she tried to say some were boyfriends but I seriously doubt that she’s only ever mentioned her first ex in the 4 years I’ve known her. I’d be doing myself a disservice providing for her.

 

[Murk]

When you say you can hide your past well and girlfriends' parents love you and no one will judge you, if you mean if you end up in a LTR or marriage with a church going untouched virgin, you're probably right, you can hide your past and true self from her parents as your time with them will be limited and anyone can put up a good front for a short time.

But read @Be's post again, it went much deeper than that. It went straight to the heart of any relationship you have and a woman being edgy and experienced enough to handle your energy and "edginess" which you cannot hide, not if you want to achieve true emotional intimacy with a woman.

Because of that, I envision a pure-as-the- driven-snow untouched virgin boring you eventually, in between the sheets and out, unchallenging, unstimulating, not edgy enough emotionally, as @Be said, not having the emotional or physical tools to handle a man with your edge and experience.

I understand the appeal but it's an ideal, and ideals can get old and lose their appeal once they become real.

I'm not suggesting you should stick with this girl, frankly I think that ship has sailed or sunk.

But just something to introspect about and learn something from going forward, that's all.

I don’t want a virgin though, just not a women with a notch count higher than her age and also had mmf threesomes. It’s not a high benchmark I’m setting here. Just a girl who valued herself enough not to be tag teamed twice and waste her best years on trash while I spent my 20s alone, isolated, grafting to make something of myself.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I don’t want a virgin though, just not a women with a notch count higher than her age and also had mmf threesomes. It’s not a high benchmark I’m setting here. Just a girl who valued herself enough not to be tag teamed twice and waste her best years on trash while I spent my 20s alone, isolated, grafting to make something of myself.

Dump her!

 

[andreihaha]

I'm so torn because she has great mother/wife qualities, same political/relgious views and she's unvaxxed. I just feel lied to and duped, and I've told her this. I just needed to vent SS.

Did she lie or did she just hide things? Because I don't have a problem with hiding some of your past, if you don't lie about it. I am far from perfect and made a lot of mistakes, but if I meet a girl I'm not gonna confess everything to her, especially if I like her. Maybe she did the same because she likes you.
And the qualities she has aren't likely to go away. While the past is in the past.
I also doubt you're perfect. And I don't think you've told her everything you did.

My female friends tell me, the qualities she has that I love (loyal, submissive, feminine, religious) can be found in many girls and I should bounce ASAP.

These are qualities I'm looking for in women also, and there are really few of them out there, believe me. Your female friends are either idiots or they don't want what's best for you.

No reason to hoe it up unless you are damaged and have low self worth. Nobody bagged her and took her off the market for a reason.

I think manipulation about the importance of sex is a pretty fair reason. And most of us here have fallen for it.

Yes BE made great points but she is comparing my past with this girls past, but I can hide my past, I socialise well and parents love me. Nobody will judge me.

Well now you're just being a hypocrite and it's getting harder to be sympathetic.

Because of that, I envision a pure-as-the- driven-snow untouched virgin boring you eventually, in between the sheets and out, unchallenging, unstimulating, not edgy enough emotionally, as @Be said, not having the emotional or physical tools to handle a man with your edge and experience.

I understand the appeal but it's an ideal, and ideals can get old and lose their appeal once they become real.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being pure, quite the contrary. You make some good points in many of your posts, but driving this man towards more promiscuous women is absolutely terrible advice.

I know a more innocent woman is hard to find, but from my experience it's worth it.
I see a lot of women nowadays shaming the innocents, which is just another case of sour grapes. Advertising promiscuity is one of the plagues of this century. Stop that shlt!

 

[Murk]

Did she lie or did she just hide things?

Both.

She had denied sex on holiday (there was “Ibiza guy” in the list), she had denied having ons (nye guy is on the list), she denied sleeping with people off dating app, (there are bumble and pof names on that list). While also judging me for those same above things that I admitted to her. Once I found out I asked her again regarding vacation and ons/OLD bangs and she denied it to my face.

Then I told her I know all these things and she was squirming to explain. So in my mind she has lied and duped me regarding her past because I never explicitly asked or probed her about it.

 

[andreihaha]

Both.

She had denied sex on holiday (there was “Ibiza guy” in the list), she had denied having ons (nye guy is on the list), she denied sleeping with people off dating app, (there are bumble and pof names on that list). While also judging me for those same above things that I admitted to her. Once I found out I asked her again regarding vacation and ons/OLD bangs and she denied it to my face.

Then I told her I know all these things and she was squirming to explain. So in my mind she has lied and duped me regarding her past because I never explicitly asked or probed her about it.

The fact that you went through her phone is too disgusting and unhealthy to ignore. That is your problem.
If a girl would look through my phone, she would probably feel insecure and get the wrong idea. But that's not my problem. Everyone has shlt in their past, but why would you want to go through someone else's toilet?