muay thai

Shiftkey

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if you want to be good at 1 on 1 fights, take brazilian or japanese jiu jitsu.
To paraphrase my instructor, ground fighting is a useful skill to have, but try to avoid taking a fight to the ground or you might get hit in the head by a lead pipe from your target's friend. You're much more prone to this on the ground than standing up.

Muay Thai is a very useful skill to have because street fights are never 1v1, even if they seem like it at first.

If anyone here is involved what is it like? For example, as a beginner what would I be doing during my lessons.
At my studio there are two basic types of classes. Kickboxing, which is more cardio/conditioning and the "phase program" which is more focused on fighting and self defence. Both are needed. The first couple times I went to kickboxing I felt like I was going to puke afterwords. It's none-stop exaustion where you're throwing punches and kicks at a 200lb bag and doing pushups and crunches between combinations. The phase program isn't as tiring, but it's mentally challenging. You learn punch/kick/elbow/knee combinations that are very awkward until you get used to them. You're put up against a partner where you take turns hitting each other's arm/hand/shin pads using the current combinations.
 

Alpine

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This thread makes me laugh. I've seen it a million times and always the same arguements for this that or the other, everyone goes away either totally confused or not understanding why other people don't realise that their practice is best :D :D

It's about now a Moderator says enough of this and closes the thread. Only to rise from the ashes in a month or so.
 

englishcrap

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I am not going to say Wing chun is better then MT or Karate is better the Aikido :D

Go and try it out, and see if you like the system. A style is only as good as the instructor.

I have had no experience of MT and those who give it ago first time may get put off because they get hit in the face or hurt. and ending up with a bleeding nose. I am not a fan of drawing blood in training. Yeah its good to experience, feel some pain during training...but What does a bleeding nose prove ?. That your human and can bleed ?.

Complete bollocks to me when some instructors say if you draw blood its good during training.

There again I dont think they are going to go full contact on you in the beginning :D The other benefits of MT are that it will put you in great physical shape, you will learn alot of good skills.

Good luck in your quest !! :)
 

englishcrap

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Hey Alpine,

I can see new thread being started "If a Wing Chun fighter versed a MT Fighter and then versed a Aikido fighter who versed a TKD who would win ? :D :D :D funny

Originally posted by Alpine
Hey English, I'm not havin you dissin my WC.:D
 

Alpine

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Hey English that's too easy:D

Seriously though a traditional WC guy might have a bit of trouble with a MT guy. All depends on skill level, environment, fitness and luck.

If on the other hand he's a WC guy with Krav Maga, Systema, Hardcore JKD, BJJ and just certified on all the Jim Wagner modules he's probably got an edge ;)
 

englishcrap

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From what I can see. Wing Chun is for everyone regardless of age, fitness. I recall watching a wing chun class and there were people in thier 50's training.

I loved the Pakso and Bongso, though never been a big believer in trapping when it comes to street situations.

MT has a sell by date when it comes to age... Your probably right about the WC v MT as WC seems to focus on centre line defense and MT guys attack from all angles

From what I have seen, in wing chun you bend the kness and your feet are well on the floor and you move only when you are attacked, in MT/Krav Maga you are on the toes and you are moving all the time. I aint trained in either style just an observation.

The two styles clash in their principles, but as you say I am sure they can be mixed.

Originally posted by Alpine
Hey English that's too easy:D

Seriously though a traditional WC guy might have a bit of trouble with a MT guy. All depends on skill level, environment, fitness and luck.

If on the other hand he's a WC guy with Krav Maga, Systema, Hardcore JKD, BJJ and just certified on all the Jim Wagner modules he's probably got an edge ;)
 

Alpine

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Yeah, it all starts getting a bit complicated.

WCs rooting allows a little/weak guy to pack a fair old punch, but you lose the agility of say a boxing stance.

In absolute terms however, good WC in some 70 y/o will never defeat a young, average trained aggressor.

Many WC close range moves are adopted in JKD, KM and even the Fairburn system which is still going strong and my preference years ago when I was training CQB.

Trouble is, like most martial arts, depending on your club, they can be very different. We are very reality based, some guys I know have been doing WC for a year and wouldn't know a Bong from his elbow.
 

Mr. Delicious

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Ya, I know this is a tired thread and normally I would just do a search. The problem is my computer is so old and crappy right now the only thing I can do on the internet is post and read posts. If I try and search the computer crashes to windows. I am getting a new one in a couple of weeks.
 

englishcrap

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Alpine,

The one thing about martial arts that I have to critizise it takes away our innate ability to fight in reality.

Take for instance a guy who has trained in shotokan karate for 6 years. Hes muscle memoried all the moves in the Dojo. Then one day he is in a bar and someone starts a fight with him.

Whats is first instinct ?. To throw a 'reverse punch" or "round house kick"..and maybe it doesnt work..Wouldn't it have been far easier to pick up an ash tray and hurl it at the guys face or picked up a chair and used it as a shield to protect himself or even hurled his drink in his face and leggit.

One of the CQC exercises we perform is to place tennis balls at random around the floor. Then one of the guys charges at you attempting to rugby tackle or 'stab' you with a rubber knife.

You pick up each tennis ball and use them as missiles and aim to hit him in the face.

In my home I have got statues of laughing buddhas etc situated all around the house. If anyone breaks in I can use them as missiles..

The above is just an example of why I feel theres a missing link when it come to the martial arts and self defense..oh God heres me rabbiting on having just got back from a night out on the piss
:D :D

I do not doubt your wing chun skills :D :D . I am sure you could beat hell into me :D


Originally posted by Alpine
You still won't get a proper answer to your question though:D
:D
 

Ricky

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Anybody ever get any of those fighting systems on tape by Bob Pierce?

He still sends me them.
 

englishcrap

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Who is Bob Pierce ?.

When I do a search on google.com he comes up as a Country Singer :D


Originally posted by Ricky
Anybody ever get any of those fighting systems on tape by Bob Pierce?

He still sends me them.
 

Alpine

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English,

We throw stuff on the floor, swear loudly even use simulated blood for knife defence and apache/kali knife work.

But you can't beat a bit of a kicking for adrenaline dumping. If you look at systems like KM they do indeed use moves that are natural, same on Jim Wagner stuff, it's all instictual + situational awareness.

I have met many Karate guys both in and out of the training environment and I feel it's one of the least effective MA for street defence, yet of course there is always the exceptional guy out there who would kick anyones butt, karate or not.

Saw your club website, looks similar in many ways to ours with the reality based approach.

Hey English, I've been around long enough to know that there are millions of guys who could floor me easy, either by power, speed, technique, aggression, luck.... every man's got to know his limitations, and I don't feel lucky.l :D

You could probably too, but I talk a good fight.
 

englishcrap

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Alpine,

I am sure you have looked at the Geoff Thompson stuff. Geoffs stuff is very good. What I like about Hocks system is he takes it one step further.he takes it to a new level...he aways asks the question "What if".

For example "What if" you were on a plane and it got hijacked and there were sleepers on board and the terrorists wanted to crash the plane into a building. This could be the worst possible scenario..rather then saying "**** theres nothing we do"..there is always a possible way out of a crisis..do you see what I mean ?.

Hock is coming over from the US in April to run a worse case scenario seminar. Will send u the details maybe u can come along.

Hocks system again is very reality based similiar to your system. Hocks belief is that in order to be a total warrior one has to become proficient with the hand, stick, knife and gun.

In order to defend against a knife one has to understand how the knife can be used, same as stick and gun. You'll notice some of Hocks stuff is based on the filipino based systems especially the knife and stick.

I am not one of these nutters who collects knives, guns nothing like that..I just want to beable to understand how someone can use a weapon against me..since the threat is not the weapon its the user.

Very often people are put of my the ugliness of the reality systems and would rather go and study a system like Wushu that is very 'Jet Li'..and the forms look so beautiful.

I am rabbiting on again about my thoughts again :D

When people ask me "Are u a good fighter" I say "No but I am a good Lover" :D


Originally posted by Alpine
English,

We throw stuff on the floor, swear loudly even use simulated blood for knife defence and apache/kali knife work.

But you can't beat a bit of a kicking for adrenaline dumping. If you look at systems like KM they do indeed use moves that are natural, same on Jim Wagner stuff, it's all instictual + situational awareness.

I have met many Karate guys both in and out of the training environment and I feel it's one of the least effective MA for street defence, yet of course there is always the exceptional guy out there who would kick anyones butt, karate or not.

Saw your club website, looks similar in many ways to ours with the reality based approach.

Hey English, I've been around long enough to know that there are millions of guys who could floor me easy, either by power, speed, technique, aggression, luck.... every man's got to know his limitations, and I don't feel lucky.l :D

You could probably too, but I talk a good fight.
:D
 

wildchild

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Muay Thai is a very good martial art to protect in a street fight and does offer alot of defence techniques. It dosnt look as good as karate or akido because alot of karate and akido defences are staged if you know what i mean. Muay thai conditions the body so you know how it feels to take a blow and gets you used to taking / dodging or absorbing hits. In a street fight karate defences are alot of the time useless because the person you are fighting isnt going to throw you a karate type kick then put there foot down and throw a karate type punch. There going to come at you with there arms swinging from all directions. I went to karate for 3 years from the age of 10 to 13 i became british champion and i know at that point i could not stand a chance in a ring with one of the guys who practice muay thai if they were the same weight, height and age and had the same experiance. I dont think one martial art is better than the other and i feel learning more than one is the best way to defend yourself. Im practicing muay thai just now and hopefully soon i will move on to brazilian ju jitsu.
 

Reyaj

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umm why hasn't anyone mentioned wrestling?

Wrestling is the number 1 successful style in Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Look at Randy the Natural Coutre

He beat Vitor Belfot twice (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Championship)

He beat Chuck Lidell (Professional kickboxer)

I remember reading that most fights end up on the ground which seems to be true. For this, wrestling is the most effective style.
 

Dust 2 Dust

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Originally posted by Jayer
umm why hasn't anyone mentioned wrestling?

Wrestling is the number 1 successful style in Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Look at Randy the Natural Coutre

He beat Vitor Belfot twice (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Championship)

He beat Chuck Lidell (Professional kickboxer)

I remember reading that most fights end up on the ground which seems to be true. For this, wrestling is the most effective style.
Grappling is good in a one on one UFC fight, but the problem is once your on top of the guy his friends may start leveling you with kicks to the head.

In a street fight you'd be better off using boxing and maybe some karate clench techniques. I also don't recommend trying to kick people in a street fight unless you're really good at it because if your too slow people will catch your leg and then your fukked.

The average person's of idea of fighting is running at you throwing windmill punches and they'll be gassed after a minute since most people are out of shape. Go to your local library or wherever and get some books on boxing or karate and you'll do fine.
 

wildchild

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Jayer wrestling is good in ufc but if you look at most fighters in ufc they mostly all use thai boxing skills.
 
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