Most Pickup Material is Outdated

[thefonz]

I remember when I first came to this site one of the first pieces of advice I got was "Always get the girls HOME PHONE number...anything else doesn't count." In todays world of texting, cellphones, myspace....this is complete joke of a gaming rule. However theres a **** ton of other information that newbies come here and absorb but fail to question in the midst of so much chaotic advice.

I'm going to pick on Mystery for a minute.

I recognize him as the godfather of pickup, he's made it possible for all this philosphizing and discussion about pickup to be possible and for that I am grateful. But I truly believe 5 or 10 years from now no one will take him seriously. Here's a couple tidbits from our fav guru:

"It takes a girl 7 hours to get comfortable enough to sleep with you."
"If a girl is intially attracted to you it's Fool's Mate. It doesn't count."
"The whole point of life is to survive and reproduce."

Any intermidiate or advanced guy should be able to call bull**** on this. Mystery is not the only one to blame for this crap. There is a LOT of money to be made in marketing Pickup as well as people willing to pay. And the thing is, a lot of these guru's don't have oversight or a checks and balances system to call them out. They can make rules for anything and if it no one says anything (which i've found people at seminars guys tend to have a very positive "i want to believe" attitude going in). Believe me..I've been to some BAD ones, and people still say afterwards, "WOW that was a great speech." They want to believe...

I know a reputatable PUA personally who has met every major guru in the biz and claims 90% of them have never had a LTR in their life. talked to a friend who went to high school with Tyler Durden and still talks to him to this say. Tyler claims to have slept with over 70 women in his life. This guys who knows him beyond his marketing persona claims, "There is no way this guy has slept with more than 15 girls. He spends all his time on the computer".

The point I'm trying to make is that the reality of Pickup is that is very specific to the individual. There are no general rules. None. 0. Teaching this stuff is hard as **** because no two people come from the same place, it takes a very empathetic, emotionally intelliegent person to be able to teach. Unfortunately, those teachers that got good by making a few minor tweeks and then suddenly get laid all the time can never understand a person who never had a father growing up, is a 30 year old virgin, and lived in his car for 5 years. That's a lot of baggage that doesn't quickly go away.

Pickup can make you into a really weird person if you try to follow all the advice out there. As a base for conquering your fear of women it is priceless, but having done this stuff for over 6 years I can say without a doubt that to stay grounded in community dogma is a formula for a lonely miserable life filled with 100's of acquiantances and very few close meaningful relationships. I would recommend general psychology over pickup any day. 95% of guys leave the community every year having never found what they where looking for.

My point:
1)go out
2) GO OUT
3) stay positive
4) don't over analyze failures, focus on success
5) never envy anyone, EVER. you don't know the truth about them
6) Focus on your strengths rather than trying to fix weaknesses
7) Always face your fears and give yourself props when you do
8) Have fun, if you constantly do **** you hate because you're "trying to improve" you still don't get it.
9) Be honest, it's the quickest way to progress. ie. If you're not the prize stop pretending you are. You're not fooling anyone.
10) Learn to be INTERDEPENDENT, not independent
11) The guy who gets laid the most is NOT always right

 

[Warrior74]

Amen.

 

[Nexus Polaris]

I know a reputatable PUA personally who has met every major guru in the biz and claims 90% of them have never had a LTR in their life. talked to a friend who went to high school with Tyler Durden and still talks to him to this say. Tyler claims to have slept with over 70 women in his life. This guys who knows him beyond his marketing persona claims, "There is no way this guy has slept with more than 15 girls. He spends all his time on the computer".

Whether or not this is true, it's really kind of irrelevant because his stuff works. I can tell you from personal experience. What he teaches is basically the same thing you're saying. That it's not about tips, tricks, or techniques. It's about developing a healthy minset and becoming a quality human being.

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

What's interesting about these "PUAs" is that you'll see them talking with a Sharpie and a dry erase board, but the damndest thing... you won't see any in-field videos. Which is puzzling because most have expensive HD cameras with wireless microphones that would be perfect for in-field footage.

I've seen very few from the well-known ones, and those were either obviously staged, or in a dark club talking to some random drunk chick.

This "Mystery" character. The one in-field video I saw of him he was too scared to approach two 7's in a bar. He was obviously stalling then he made some excuses in nerd lingo on why it wasn't a good idea to engage. The funny part was, some random guy walked right up to these girls as he was talking to the camera and started hitting on them.

I saw one more from him which was obviously fake and I turned it off halfway through.

The "C&F" guy, another goof. You won't see any in-field footage from him either.

It's just foolishness.

 

[kingsam]

for the record i like RSD (natural) but not really routines (Mystery method + most others?)
im not a blind a RSD fan boy...but i like the approach very much

there is a massive difference between Natural (RSD) and Routines (MM + most others)
the natural approach fits very well with the dogma on this forum...

What's interesting about these "PUAs" is that you'll see them talking with a Sharpie and a dry erase board, but the damndest thing... you won't see any in-field videos. Which is puzzling because most have expensive HD cameras with wireless microphones that would be perfect for in-field footage.

ya need to see the RSD hotseat there was about 6 hours of infield videos...with videos of 5 instructors there... 1.5 hrs of tyler, then rest of the time divided between jeffy, ryan, brad, alexander... (seen some ozzie infield too elsewhere)
...these guys dont use routines at all, no ****y and funny, no peackocking crap, just themselves...

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70 people is beleivalbe... say a guy got laid 1 new chick each week (which is realistic) thats 52 a year.... !
Tyler went out for 3 years - about 1000 appraoches (apparaently)... so thats an average of 1 chick every 2 weeks... not a massive amount....really
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interstingly there is a video of Cajun from lovesystems (who have a routines appraoch) on Keys to the VIP (on youtube) ...the thing is he doesnt really seem to use any routines in it, he just acts like a "natural" ...

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although
i agree there is a lot of snake oil out there, wiht guys jumping on teh bandwagon , using the same material, reselling it...poorly
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I know a reputatable PUA personally who has met every major guru in the biz and claims 90% of them have never had a LTR in their life. talked to a friend who went to high school with Tyler Durden and still talks to him to this say. Tyler claims to have slept with over 70 women in his life. This guys who knows him beyond his marketing persona claims, "There is no way this guy has slept with more than 15 girls. He spends all his time on the computer".

if he has his own little company/dogma/products...hes probably thrying to diss the others...it happens a lot in PU, thers a lot of bit.ching about how all the others are wrong ... its very pathetic ...

 

[spinaroonie]

Two Love Systems instructors on a pickup show:

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/5981050/Keys_to_the_VIP_Fogle_4_Season3_2_4

They creep out every girl they approach. What does this tell you?

The PUA industry is littered with frauds.

 

[HeyPachuco!]

Jeffy RSD is the truth.

I'm going to be buying his Book - Nine Ball I think it is. If you've seen this guys ridiculous confidence and harsh humour, you can tell he gets laid and is comfortable within his own skin. I'd defeintly take a bootcamp from him. Thats the only bootcamp I'll take, an RSD Jeffy BC. Only PU, Seduction or Dating material I'll read now is Real Social Dynamics. Mystery Method is catered for guys who are geeks who haven't got any confidence atall or never really was in an LTR or used to being around women.

RSD fits well with the Don Juan code of conducts imo.

This "Mystery" character. The one in-field video I saw of him he was too scared to approach two 7's in a bar. He was obviously stalling then he made some excuses in nerd lingo on why it wasn't a good idea to engage. The funny part was, some random guy walked right up to these girls as he was talking to the camera and started hitting on them.

I'm not sure about that. To view most lengthy PU videos, you gotta sign up to all these Forums who function the videos, will usually have "Pick Up Videos" on one of the tab columns. I've seen an hour of Mystery in-field at some bar in Hollywood. Its a follow up from the one on Youtube you're talking about. Mystery actually gets opened instead of opening a set, talks about himself for about 20 minutes and closes, then shows specs of Matador and his cold reading bullshyt. Its entitled "Holy Grail of Pick Up".

 

[thefonz]

Whether or not this is true, it's really kind of irrelevant because his stuff works. I can tell you from personal experience. What he teaches is basically the same thing you're saying. That it's not about tips, tricks, or techniques. It's about developing a healthy minset and becoming a quality human being.

I don't know if it's true or not, correct. But I've always been skeptical of "Natural Game". What the **** does that mean? If you don't have it then how is it natural? You have to learn to be natural? Some guys need inner game and some need outer game work. Some guys go out dressed like **** and wonder why they're inner game doesn't attract club girls. Or some guys who don't have a job and never have had a gf go out and demand quality women.

RSD seems to have a a cult vibe to me which kind of deters me. That being said, if a certain philosophy is making your overall life better than I'm not going to hate.

They ALL claim that it's about being a healthy and quality person,

Ie. The one thing I hate the most about the community is that they seem to make it ok to lie. If you don't succeed, fake it til you make it. Say you're shopping for a friend when you're actually out to hit on girls, or, tell her she reminds you of your ex-when they're really is no likeness. This is a recipe for a lifetime of loneliness and misery. How can ANYONE get close to you when there are several layers of bull**** inbetween you? Deep down that's what everyone is looking for.

I found the secret to success is to be honest AND have balls.

 

[yuppaz]

It's funny how a guy with a handle of "The Fonz" is discussing anything being outdated...lol

That said, I agree and disagree. Feel that you can learn a lot from all different camps, but that a lot of pickup stuff is really garbage.

RSD is good and it's funny how they tout natural game, but the instructors actually use outer game routines but they don't feel it's obvious to themselves so they call it natural. Like they will use "Command and Challenge tonality" in interactions and usually use the same generic openers, but it isn't canned material???? huh? They are also very much fan boys and while claiming to be freeing themselves of ego are actually (my opinion) somewhat egotistical.... Jeffy for example is all about being this dominant guy and posts 3 word posts that don't really give value and only serve to make him look cool...which is in direct conflict to what they preach.

I think the natural part comes in with the inner game stuff "Be exactly who you are, talk about anything and escalate" - getting there is a good place to shoot for, but I also see loads of boosting themselves up for a big payday so there is conflict.

I use a couple canned things when I run out of **** to say, and they work pretty well, then hopefully a conversation ensues and I can go back to just being a chill me and remembering to escalate.

Learning text game is definitely NOT a good thing learned from natural game, rather canned gamers is ideal. That said "Man*****" (supposedly natural style) has a bunch of text game stuff saved that he re-uses and it's pretty good.

Mix em up to use a a crutch when you need it and toss it when you are good enough


ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeee

 

[DanelMadr]

HEY TheFonz, you are....absolutely right.

be brave
be honest (most importantly to oneself)
those are the things one can actually work on, the rest is more or less given.

 

[thefonz]

It's funny how a guy with a handle of "The Fonz" is discussing anything being outdated...lol

ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeee

HA! It's even funnier that I've never seen an episode of Happy Days in my life. I'm only 28

Dude, I hate this name...but whataya gonna do aye? I think that's how he talks...

 

[Gangster Of Love]

It's funny how a guy with a handle of "The Fonz" is discussing anything being outdated...lol

Are you saying he's jumped the shark? :crackup:

 

[Galactus]

Hey Fonzie, I loved the points you made, especially #5. I would add Never get jealous. It really frees you to be more relaxed.

But "Fake it till you make it" doesn't mean you lie to a chick. It means act the way you want to be until you are that way. So for example, if you want to be confident but you don't feel confident, act like a confident person would act. When you reap the rewards of seeming confident, you will become confident. A lot of people have issues with this idea, but I think it's pretty solid.

I also agree and disagree. There are useful things I've learned from all different people, different disciplines, and I've learned a lot of garbage from many of the same people and disciplines. You have to be intelligent enough to know what you can use and discard what doesn't work.

That's also why I disagree with the statement "There are no general rules". This implies that there is nothing at all that is universal. Generally, it is better to be confident, but who knows, maybe there are women who like wimps. Generally, it is better to bathe, but who knows, maybe there are women who like scumbags. Generally it is better to not be an axe murderer, but there are women who love them, and marry them in prison. Go figure. I think there are no SPECIFIC rules.

This is the problem with some of these guys you mentioned. They have specific rules, and if you're a sheep, you will believe you have to follow their systems to the letter.

I didn't get much out of Spinaroonie's video, except for one huge revelation that I doubt any of those guys ever thought of. I'm a big believer that your physiology affects your personality, mood and attitude. If you sit around looking depressed, you will become depressed, and everyone will pick up on it. This will impact how people react to you. Conversely, if you get up, smile, walk tall and assume a bold posture, you will become confident and assured, and people will respond positively.

On the video, the first guy gets the women to move to him, surrounding him, and appearing to pursue him. What suddenly struck me was that, if you can manipulate the situation so that a woman's physiology changes, her mind will follow suit. If her body moves in such a way that she appears to be interested in you, her brain will work to become in sync with her body. You don't do things you don't want to do, so if you're doing it, it must be because you want to. "If I appear interested, obviously, I must BE interested."

I know this is really nothing new, it's a big part of NLP. But I wonder how many people are aware of how they influence others by getting their bodies to move in certain ways? I know I didn't consider that too much, but I will now. The guys in the video didn't. They were looking at how everyone else in the bar perceived the scene, not how the womens' mental states were being affected by their own movements.

 

[thefonz]

Ya, that's probably what I meant to say. There are no SPECIFIC rules, thanks for the correction.

I'm glad "fake it til' you make it" worked for you, and I won't hate on it if you've found to a way to cultivate confidence through that. My issue is that all the fake it til you make it people I've run into in field are really uncalibrated socially and are terrible at reading situations. All that social retardedness tends to make others challenge those beliefs you're trying to force which makes it more of an uphill battle.

I've found it much more effective to focus on what your fears are, dissect them through brief intense introspection by asking the right questions, and go out into the world and face them. Cognitively address the fact that you did it,

Most advice in the community ranges from trivial to unimportant and does not address the bigger questions that are being ignored.
ie.
Q:Should I go direct or indirect on mixed sets?
A: Try both and find out
Reply: But I can't, I'm afraid. I need to know before I go in
Why are you afraid?
Because I'm not good talking to groups with guys
Why?
Because guys with girls intimidate me
Why?
Because I might get punched in the face
Why?
Because I might get testy with the guy when he gets mad at me
Why?
Because I have anger issues
Why?
Because mommy didn't hug me enough as a kid

It's not that you don't know what to do, it's that you're afraid and trying to cover up the pain by putting yourself in the shoes of someone else who seemingly does it right. This is temporary relief, but I don't think it builds confidence more than self-introspection.

Once the fear is gone, then the next step is to become more socially intelligent. Get good at reading people, understanding them while at the same time being able to relate that to your own emotions and feelings. That's when your game will truly skyrocket.

I'll try to post a thread on performing self introspection in the near future along with what questions you should ask yourself.