More protests against lockdown

[FairShake]

Going inside the grocery store may become a thing of the past.

Experts say it may be time for grocery stores to ban customers from coming inside because of Covid-19

Dozens of grocery store workers have died from the coronavirus, despite masks, temperature checks and capacity restrictions to keep them safe. So far, supermarkets have resisted the most draconian policy: banning customers from coming inside.

www.cnn.com

'Bout time. If we don't, we won't have grocery stores.

 

[zekko]

Car accidents are not contagious and they don't grow out of control. It's a complete useless comparison.

Whether they are contagious or not are not the point. The point is that we as a country apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles. If you are going to have cars, you're going to have these deaths. Just like if we are going to have an open economy, we are going to have these virus deaths.

 

[corrector]

The point is that we as a country apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles. If you are going to have cars, you're going to have these deaths. Just like if we are going to have an open economy, we are going to have these virus deaths.

There are 40,591 deaths in your country now, and rising, and that's with the lockdowns in place as it is right now and that number will continue to go up. Open up your economy and it will just go up insanely faster until it gets close to a million and rising. What is your point again?

 

[zekko]

There are 40,591 deaths in your country now, and rising, and that's with the lockdowns in place as it is right now and that number will continue to go up. Open up your economy and it will just go up insanely faster until it gets close to a million and rising. What is your point again?

I just made it. People apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles.
And bear in mind I've already said I am in favor of the social isolating.
As for the million deaths, maybe we would get that and maybe we wouldn't. We've seen that the prediction models are not always accurate.
What about the report coming out of San Francisco that the number of infected may be 85 times higher than previously thought? That would indicate the death rate is much lower than what we're being told.

I do think that a lot of people are getting impatient and are wanting to open up the economy and get out there without the data necessarily indicating that it is safe. Unfortunately, it may never be safe until we get a vaccine. So people are going to have to be creative about finding safe ways to conduct business.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Let me tell you about 3 people I know from 3 different countries within the union.

1) Guy in his mid 30s from Germany, spent 10 years to get a pilot licence, achieve all the necessary ratings and finally get a job in a respectable flight company.
He is temporary unemployed while still paying his monthly due to the bank for a loan he needed to achieve his licence and rating, he was supposed to be over in 2 years, there is also a good chance he will be fired for good.
He has a wife but thankfully no kids and live in a 30 squared metres flat where he now spends most of his day.

2) Man from Italy in his early 50s, fought his entire life against italian socialist taxation, got robbed at gun point twice but somehow managed to make his business to survive and feed his family.
His bar is currently closed while he is still expected to pay taxes and other fixed costs, the gov keep promising for support but none arrives.

3) Man from France mid 40s, chief constructor (basically the one who supervise common workers) and clearly currently unemployed from a month, he still has to pay for rent and taxes which are now entirely on his wife who thankfully keeps working in the food department.
He has 3 projects and 3 teams that basically had to stop midway and no one knows if they can restart with some new safety rules or not.

These are men I know and Im sure there are many more in such conditions, many of you probably think that an economic crysis is no big deal but I believe you all underestimate the impact in the medium and long term...unless ofc you think that taxes and work are useless and its all about printing.

Whats the take away message? well lets make a list of all the disease existing and try to imagine what happens if hospitals are not available cause the country is bankrupt...also try to imagine how nice and law abiding adult men will be when pushed against the wall with nothing to lose.

Not sure if someone of you recall London riots in 2011, well that will be like a jogging session compared.

I dont wanna sound racist but we cant treat everyone the same way when someone has a purpose and a role and someone does not, we cant force the same rules to those who have a 0.2% of death as if they were those with a 20% risk of death.
In my opinion and feel free to disagree, its better to pick a calculated risk and harm now to avoid an almost sure overall damage tomorrow.

 

[thinker]

@Bible_Belt the ar 15 is not an automatic rifle, maybe you should do some research before you post. I read two articles in the last few days. One was with a Israeli doctor who did a study and according to his study it doesn't matter if a country completely locked down or if everything stayed open the course of the virus is still the same. According to this doctor there should have been no lock downs. The second article I read was about a study conducted by researchers at the university of Stanford, the study showed that the real number of infected is massively higher than what is believed at this time and puts the mortality rate at about the same as the common flu or even lower. Here in Florida where I live in the most affected part of Florida we haven't had a lock down as sever as has happened in other parts of the country and the world and we are actually doing quit well. As far as whether I would fear infection , I have dealt with at least 4 people who were infected and didn't have any issues with it. As a matter of fact about a month ago I felt a little off, I was fatigued and was having some mild dizzy spells with a sore throat, I didn't think much of it at the time but who knows I might have already been infected with the virus.

 

[Xenom0rph]

Great news: another protest has popped up, this time in Olympia, Washington. Fvck this lockdown horsesh1t....

More U.S. protests call for lifting coronavirus restrictions as governors push back

Protests flared in U.S. states on Sunday over stay-at-home orders while governors disputed President Donald Trump's claims they have enough tests for the novel coronavirus and should quickly reopen their economies.

www.reuters.com

 

[corrector]

Let me tell you about 3 people I know from 3 different countries within the union.

1) Guy in his mid 30s from Germany, spent 10 years to get a pilot licence, achieve all the necessary ratings and finally get a job in a respectable flight company.
He is temporary unemployed while still paying his monthly due to the bank for a loan he needed to achieve his licence and rating, he was supposed to be over in 2 years, there is also a good chance he will be fired for good.
He has a wife but thankfully no kids and live in a 30 squared metres flat where he now spends most of his day.

2) Man from Italy in his early 50s, fought his entire life against italian socialist taxation, got robbed at gun point twice but somehow managed to make his business to survive and feed his family.
His bar is currently closed while he is still expected to pay taxes and other fixed costs, the gov keep promising for support but none arrives.

3) Man from France mid 40s, chief constructor (basically the one who supervise common workers) and clearly currently unemployed from a month, he still has to pay for rent and taxes which are now entirely on his wife who thankfully keeps working in the food department.
He has 3 projects and 3 teams that basically had to stop midway and no one knows if they can restart with some new safety rules or not.

These are men I know and Im sure there are many more in such conditions, many of you probably think that an economic crysis is no big deal but I believe you all underestimate the impact in the medium and long term...unless ofc you think that taxes and work are useless and its all about printing.

Whats the take away message? well lets make a list of all the disease existing and try to imagine what happens if hospitals are not available cause the country is bankrupt...also try to imagine how nice and law abiding adult men will be when pushed against the wall with nothing to lose.

Not sure if someone of you recall London riots in 2011, well that will be like a jogging session compared.

I dont wanna sound racist but we cant treat everyone the same way when someone has a purpose and a role and someone does not, we cant force the same rules to those who have a 0.2% of death as if they were those with a 20% risk of death.
In my opinion and feel free to disagree, its better to pick a calculated risk and harm now to avoid an almost sure overall damage tomorrow.

Governments can just borrow more and reverse the tax cuts to the rich or tax fairly. In terms of % of GDP I have not heard anything in double digits and we have universal health care.

The issues here are PPE being available for frontline staff since if the doctors and nurses start dying then it does not matter how well funded the health care system is.

If people flatten the curve so the virus does not overwhelm the health system then frontline doctors do not have to decide who lives or who dies. Frontline workers dont want to make that type of decision. Where they do then the rationale is who is more likely to respond well to the treatment. Therefore a teenager would have more value than a 60 year old person and that is where health systems were overwhelmed.

 

[Spaz]

Whether they are contagious or not are not the point. The point is that we as a country apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles. If you are going to have cars, you're going to have these deaths. Just like if we are going to have an open economy, we are going to have these virus deaths.

Have cars = accidents = deaths - - > That's true.

Have Economic activity = virus = deaths - - > That's not entirely true.

Wether you got economy activity or not, if a virus is already widespread, its gonna kill, that's irrefutable. You do understand the reasoning behind the shutdown right?

And if you do then you also know the government will ultimately push for opening up of the economy since its unsustainable.

If you do then why all this fussy fart attitudes I'm seeing here ?

I sometimes wonder if any of you guys that's making so much noises abt this shutdown actually owns companies that's actually hires people whom actually contributes to economic activities.

By right I'm the 1st person that's supposed to be crying online abt the unfairness of the shutdown, instead I'm rediverting resources and finding opportunities to make profits instead of crying and moaning abt the state of affairs, its as if you people think by doing so will make money grow on ur trees at ur backyard whilst doing nothing but moan.

 

[FairShake]

Great news: another protest has popped up, this time in Olympia, Washington. Fvck this lockdown horsesh1t....

More U.S. protests call for lifting coronavirus restrictions as governors push back

Protests flared in U.S. states on Sunday over stay-at-home orders while governors disputed President Donald Trump's claims they have enough tests for the novel coronavirus and should quickly reopen their economies.

www.reuters.com

I respect the right to protest, appreciate it even. But they should really be wearing masks. I realize it defeats their purpose and their point but this protest has super spreader even written all over it.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Governments can just borrow more and reverse the tax cuts to the rich or tax fairly. In terms of % of GDP I have not heard anything in double digits and we have universal health care.

The issues here are PPE being available for frontline staff since if the doctors and nurses start dying then it does not matter how well funded the health care system is.

If people flatten the curve so the virus does not overwhelm the health system then frontline doctors do not have to decide who lives or who dies. Frontline workers dont want to make that type of decision. Where they do then the rationale is who is more likely to respond well to the treatment. Therefore a teenager would have more value than a 60 year old person and that is where health systems were overwhelmed.

Anything that is borrowed needs to be returned, guess Greece reminds us of something?
Im not sure if you guys get what numbers we talk about for any week of shut down...thats not exactly a "just a bad month for revenues".

How is their healthcare being doing in the last years after borrowing left and rights?

Agree on the they way the virus is spread among medical staff, again this is a further fault of governments who failed to provide them the necessary masks despite a month long warning from westerne doctors living east.

 

[cdiated]

The number of cases in the US is continuously increasing and I guess lockdown is one of the best things the government can think. It is not the main solution to this pandemic but it can help.

 

[DelayedGratification]

I just made it. People apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles.
And bear in mind I've already said I am in favor of the social isolating.

Those 37,000 deaths are only that low due to "flattening the curve" measures done for automobile safety: seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, to name a few. Since there is such an effort to make cars as safe as possible, I would argue that we don't find those deaths entirely acceptable. (And yes, I know flattening-the-curve is a completely different thing than auto safety measures, but we all seem to be stuck on this bullsh1t apples-to-oranges comparison, so I'm entitled)

As for the million deaths, maybe we would get that and maybe we wouldn't. We've seen that the prediction models are not always accurate.
What about the report coming out of San Francisco that the number of infected may be 85 times higher than previously thought? That would indicate the death rate is much lower than what we're being told.

@zekko, you're one of the more reasonable bro's here. The count is up to 40,000 as of 4/20, with the curves barely flattening, and in other places in the country things are just getting started. Do you really believe that it won't at least double by the end of the year? That would be twice as many deaths vs car accidents. And to reiterate, it's still a bullsh1t comparison, but if people insist on making it, I'll insist that the numbers as presented don't make a solid argument anyway.

 

[FairShake]

This is pretty cool.

Healthcare workers clash with anti-lockdown protesters in Colorado

Nurses clashed with anti lockdown protesters in Colorado on Sunday, defiantly standing in front of the cars who flocked to the state Capitol in their hundreds to protest lockdown measures.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Quiet. Dignified. And not a confederate flag in sight.

 

[corrector]

 

[EyeBRollin]

I just made it. People apparently find 37,000 deaths a year an acceptable trade-off for the convenience of having automobiles.

^^^ Garbage strawman argument. No one finds car accidents deaths "acceptable." Hence why there are strict laws regarding insurance, licensing, seat belts, and steep fines for impaired driving. There will never be zero car accident fatalities but these measures are aimed at having as few as possible. (Think: they are called accidents)

 

[zekko]

No one finds car accidents deaths "acceptable."

Of course they do. You said yourself there will never be zero car accidents. Therefore, we as a people are willing to accept a certain amount of death in exchange for having cars. Just as people accept a certain amount of risk in order to fly on a plane or to go into space. Of course you make it as safe as possible. But ultimately it's risk vs. reward.

 

[Bible_Belt]

@Bible_Belt the ar 15 is not an automatic rifle, maybe you should do some research before you post.

I made us army expert with the m16 at the range when I was 19. I had a replica m16 as a bb gun at age 12, and the sights are the same, so it was easy. I've also taken that weapon apart to clean it many times. It feels like a plastic pistol with a long barrel when you hold it in your hand.

You are correct in that, in all likelihood, those are not modified ar 15s in that pic, but the modification is fairly simple and the government permit is not very expensive. My neighbor has one. It sounds like ww2 over there sometimes. The full auto mod for the ar is stupid anyway, the army had moved to 3 round bursts when I shot the m16. You never hit anything after the 3rd round was their conclusion.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Of course they do. You said yourself there will never be zero car accidents.

No, wrong. "Zero accidents" is not the standard. That itself is an oxymoron.

Therefore, we as a people are willing to accept a certain amount of death in exchange for having cars. Just as people accept a certain amount of risk in order to fly on a plane or to go into space. Of course you make it as safe as possible. But ultimately it's risk vs. reward.

Wrong again. By that (lack of) logic, there is no reason to do anything, including breathe air. Move on from this ridiculous strawman argument.

 

[Billtx49]

The people who get sick are the people who worry about getting sick. And doesn't a "pandemic" get people worrying?

Faulty reasoning @Logos …
The people that get sick are the one’s that get infected by the virus through unprotected contact.

The people that are worried protect themselves with masks and gloves…