MMA Discussion

ketostix

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edger said:
My 2 cents on the matter:

All this UFC, fighting garbage is classless. Bunch of genuine idiots who get off on pounding each others heads in. Real smart. Let me get my nose broken, a couple of teeth knocked out, a couple of broken bones that will more than likely give me problems in the future, a few facial scars(all so I can look uglier), etc., so I can be cool. Yeah, real cool. Sure. Like I said, a bunch of classless, uncivilized barbaric animals, in a jungle environment.

I think some people maybe many who watch UFC are classless a-holes and just want to see violence. While others and probably most of the fighters, see it as a sport and the technical aspects of it. They see it as true, honest competition. When you think about it, fighting is really just a more honest version of how many people compete and strive against one another.
 

IamMyownMan

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Edger-

As a surfer and a martial artist, I would not put either at less risky as far as injuries go.

I have sustained injuries in training for marital arts. Tweaked knees, ankles, bumps, bruises, black eyes, bloody noses. These were all minor. The more serious injuries, I incurred a stress fracture while running(I was away on business in Turkey and ran on a seaside stone path-big mistake) to train for a fight, and also I seperated my shoulder last summer-type 3 ac separation. Stress fracture has mostly healed-still see a spot on MRIs but this was likely caused because I am flat-footed and I needed orthotics. The shoulder separation has been a bit more hindering but the physical therapy should bring me close to full strength(or as close as I will get) by this summer.

That said- let me list some of the surfing injuries I have had.

Don't know what I would call this but some kook on a longboard couldn't make a section and lost his board which landed square across my spine. I couldn't move for a while and held onto my board. I got a friend to help me get in, where I then laid on the beach for 45 minutes almost moitonless because I couldn't move well-hard to explain. Only ended up with a bruise but had the surf been a wee bit bigger this could have been disatrous.

I have had my fins slice me everywhere, reef cuts, urchins, etc, been wrapped in my leash to the point of pain, and almost drownded more than a few times(FWIW I hate leashes so I almost didn't list that one, they have nancified the waterman that surfers once were). But that is all in good fun. I've gotten stiches in my ear cause my board split it in two(don't surf too hung-over after too much cheap centroamerican beer). I have been run(scared) out of the water by sharks, gotten infections in my ears and sinuses from dirty water, and had countless rash/sun burns and rubs on the bottom.

My most serious injury, in my life to-date has been a fractured radial head in my right arm received while pursuing my favorite pasttime, surfing. I stuck it out at the last second to keep from breaking my neck, heard it crack underwater and then sidestroked into the beach. This injury resulted in very costly surgery and a very long(longer than the shoulder so far) recovery process.

I could apply the same type of logic you used to berate MMA/UFC to someone who drowns while surfing and say, "real cool. Go drown for a ride on a farrking wave." So while MMA may be risky and/or violent, don't let yourself be fooled, surfing is just as risky, maybe more so. Probably has to do with the fact that the ocean is more powerful than any trained fighter, there are all sorts of hazards in the line-up including more and more surfers every year, plus throw in the risk of shark attack and you try telling me that surfing is less dangerous/risky than MMA. Sure a knee-high point break is a walk in the park, but I just have a lot more fun when there is more risk involved because the waves get bigger and more critical which equals more fun when you make one.

The common factor between them: FUN. Both are a blast to pursue.


On a different note, the UFC is a BRAND, registered trade-mark for the sport of MMA. Dana "Boxing is dead" White can't claim his heavyweight champs are superior until he signs Fedor and either Fedor wins or someone beats him.
I'll give it to Dana though, he is a helluva promoter.
 

STR8UP

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edger said:
Like I said, a bunch of classless, uncivilized barbaric animals, in a jungle environment.
Kind of like football and hockey, eh?
 

Bible_Belt

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The hockey fighting ethic always surprised me, or at least how different it is than in other sports. In major league baseball or the NBA, when there is a rare fight, everyone is mortified. People are concerned about what children will think. But in the NHL, it's ok to fight, even though a lot of kids play hockey just like little league baseball and basketball. At least, it's ok as long as the hockey fighters adhere to the unwritten rules of an acceptable fight - no sticks, no skates, and the fight ends when it goes down to the ice. Breaking those rules is considered barbaric, even though bare-fist punches to another guy's nose are not.

Our mma events are not age-restricted. I see a lot of fathers taking their sons. I don't think we influence kids badly - they get to see us fight by strict rules and show good sportsmanship to each other. The kids I have seen who are mma fans value very highly that the fighting is real, and not staged like pro wrestling, which these days has about the credibility of The Tooth Fairy.
 

magickarl

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MMA is just as valid a sport as any other.

It has a set of rules, governing bodies, and steps in place to prevent injury.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the elements that make an activity a sport are:

1.) That there is a level of skill is involved for success in the activity
2.) The activity is competitive
3.) The activity is governed by a set of rules
4.) The activity requires physical exertion

There is to be certain skill involved in the practice of MMA. Technique is essential to success in the sport. Brawlers are generally quickly dispatched in favor of a fighter proficient in his art. You would be hard pressed to find a soul that would say MMA is not a competitive activity. Finally, there are rules in place. By definition MMA is a legitimate sport.

It is also a safe sport.

In fact, boxing (which many MMA opponents consider to be a legitimate sport) is statistically much more dangerous than MMA.

In the last 70 years, boxing has been directly related to over 1,000 deaths. In the entire history of MMA there has been only 1 death. That single death took place in an unsanctioned bout in Russia. Looking past the fact that boxing is 1,000 times more likely to take your life than an MMA competition, mixed martial arts are also safer than many other sports. Annually football, rugby, baseball, wrestling, skateboarding, surfing, mountain climbing, BMX, soccer, and even tennis have more injuries in their practice than MMA.
 

edger

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Bible_Belt said:
A lot of people do feel this way. It is the mindset that mma has to overcome if it is to be more mainstream. Curiously, many people who find mma to be barbaric don't have any ill will towards boxing, when it can be every bit as barbaric. Boxers get brutal cuts, broken noses, eventual brain damage...the injuries are just as bad as mma, with a lot more long term brain damage due to repeated thumping to the head and the ten-count rule. But boxing has been around for a long time, and people generally accept it.
I feel the same way about boxing as well, but see it as unclassy to a lesser degree. I feel this way about ANY sport that patronizes fighting.
 

edger

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STR8UP said:
Kind of like football and hockey, eh?
Football, as a much lesser degree of unclassy. Hockey, is quite up there with the UFC as far as it's degree of classlessness is concerned.
 

Inquisitus

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magickarl said:
MMA is just as valid a sport as any other.

It has a set of rules, governing bodies, and steps in place to prevent injury.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the elements that make an activity a sport are:

1.) That there is a level of skill is involved for success in the activity
2.) The activity is competitive
3.) The activity is governed by a set of rules
4.) The activity requires physical exertion

There is to be certain skill involved in the practice of MMA. Technique is essential to success in the sport. Brawlers are generally quickly dispatched in favor of a fighter proficient in his art. You would be hard pressed to find a soul that would say MMA is not a competitive activity. Finally, there are rules in place. By definition MMA is a legitimate sport.

It is also a safe sport.

In fact, boxing (which many MMA opponents consider to be a legitimate sport) is statistically much more dangerous than MMA.

In the last 70 years, boxing has been directly related to over 1,000 deaths. In the entire history of MMA there has been only 1 death. That single death took place in an unsanctioned bout in Russia. Looking past the fact that boxing is 1,000 times more likely to take your life than an MMA competition, mixed martial arts are also safer than many other sports. Annually football, rugby, baseball, wrestling, skateboarding, surfing, mountain climbing, BMX, soccer, and even tennis have more injuries in their practice than MMA.
Please don't overlook Sam Vasquez, the first MMA death resulting from a sanctioned fight in the US.
 

j0n024

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I agree with the spectators aspect of your argument edgar....

Most people that watch UFC,Affliction,Pryde seem to be fat guys with testosterone probelms and feel like they can take on the world after they watch a fight....it's pretty sad.

Now I got into MMA cause it seems very interesting....lots of different fighting styles and most of the people are very respectful...except for Rashad.

I think the main problem would have to be the spectators, but then again there are more riots in soccer then a MMA fight.
 

Paintballguy

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There are jackass spectators with any sport. It's unfair to judge a sport because some dude who watches it on TV is a douche bag.

I've found everyone that goes to my BJJ school is very respectful and willing to help out the new guy.
 

magickarl

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Inquisitus said:
Please don't overlook Sam Vasquez, the first MMA death resulting from a sanctioned fight in the US.
My fault. Several corrections:

There have been three deaths that I have knowledge of:


March 16, 1998
- Douglas Dedge fought in the Ukraine (not Russia, my mistake) against Yevgeni Zolotarev. The fight was stopped by a referee and shortly afterwords Dedge collapsed. Two days later Dedge died at the Kiev Institute of Neurosurgery.

Note: Dedge had suffered a concussion and possible cracked skull in a previous fight. He was advised by several doctors to take a year off from fighting. Dedge ignored the advice and continued fighting. He was supposedly not medically cleared to fight in the U.S. or Japan as a result of this. Friends of Dedge had said that during training he would repeatedly black out.

April 1981 - Alfredo Castro Herrera died following a match with Angel Luis Rodriguez in Tijuana, Mexico. Herrera was 15 at the time, and Rodriguez was 16. The event was unsanctioned.

October 20, 2007 - Sam Vasquez lost a bout with Vince Libardi by TKO in the third round. After the fight he lost consciousness and died 42 days later on November 30, 2007.

Note: Vasquez had a pre-existing blood clot that he had surgically removed. Following the surgery, another blood clot occurred and fluid entered his brain causing a stroke. He slipped in to a coma and died. Official cause of death was "complications of blunt trauma of the head with a subdural hemorrhage ."


While I don't have many details on the death of Herrera, Vasquez and Dedge both were reported to have pre-existing medical conditions that would have disqualified them from competition. Vasquez, unfortunately, was not granted the luxury Dedge had. He was unaware of his blood clot, and as a result lost his life. I would like to point out that he could have just as easily died from a rough fall.

Dedge was another story. Doctors told the man he shouldn't be fighting. He was not cleared to fight in a sanctioned bout, but he ignored medical advice and fought in the Ukraine. His death was entirely preventable. Hell, if he would have taken the year off like the doctors had suggested, he may have even been able to fight again some day.
 

Little Italy

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nice, im starting bjj in about a month hopefully, ive been to a few practices and its pretty tight, you go to a gracie?
 

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STR8UP

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Jakes21 said:
I hope anderson silva kicks thales leites a$$
My money is on Silva.

Just found out that the dude who knocked out Kimbo Slice last october is from my area and just opened a gym a few blocks from me. I'm going overseas in a few weeks but when I get back I'm going to look into the possibility of training. I need some kind of exercise that will hold my short attention span.
 

Inquisitus

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i don't think there's any doubt about the Silva Leites fight.

I'm rooting for Shogun to beat the Iceman. Oh for all the Canucks too, especially Kang.
 

Paintballguy

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STR8UP said:
I need some kind of exercise that will hold my short attention span.
haha this is a big reason why I started. I get so f'ing bored just going to the gym. However, I look forward to going to BJJ class. It's a huge challenge, and I'm always learning something new.
 

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