Mixed Signals

[#41]

I met this girl, mid-20s grad student from out of town, a little over a week ago while out and about on the town. We hit it off immediately, isolated, had great kino, danced, and kissed a bit. I got her number and called a few days later; we talked for close to 45 minutes and set up a date for tonight (she claimed she had midterms last week and was planning to spend her time studying).

I picked her up at her place -- she was done up rather nicely and it seemed like she was trying to impress: nicer clothes than usual for a first date, nice perfume, full makeup, etc. We walked around the city chatting for a bit before getting a light dinner and then a stop for coffee.

She was very inquisitive of me and we had good conversation for most of the night with no real dead areas. But, midway through the night, she casually dropped in, while talking about dealing with other people in her major program, that she had hooked up with someone this past week -- I let it just slide and continued with the conversation, but it seemed like a really odd thing to just toss in.

The date ended with a simple hug, a "this was really fun," and her saying she hoped we could do something again soon. I didn't see any indications that said "go for it" on a kiss or anything else.

Am I already likely in the LJBF zone on this one? I would imagine that, were she into me, there wouldn't have been any reference to other guys and there would've been something more of a "go" sign at the end of the date. On the other hand, it was our first time out, she didn't flake despite the fact that over a week passed between our first meeting and this get together, and she was clearly dressed for a "date" and not just a friendly encounter.

Any thoughts or advice on how to proceed would be appreciated. I'd rather not waste my time if she just wants a new friend to hang around with.

 

[Mr. Me]

"Mixed signals" is a sign of low interest. The way to decipher them is look at the actions more then the words.

Am I already likely in the LJBF zone on this one? I would imagine that, were she into me, there wouldn't have been any reference to other guys and there would've been something more of a "go" sign at the end of the date. On the other hand, it was our first time out, she didn't flake despite the fact that over a week passed between our first meeting and this get together, and she was clearly dressed for a "date" and not just a friendly encounter.

But that she didn't flake and dressed to impress was BEFORE she lost interest and expressed it by mentioning the other guy and ending the date with a hug instead of a kiss. So, you did something or something DURING the date that lowered her interest level in you.

I'd say you talked too much and may have said something in your chit chat, or somethings, unbeknownst to you that seemed correct and innocent but to her were deal killers. Your date also may have gone on too long, like a movie that would play better if it were an hour shorter. And/or maybe walking around the city and getting dinner was not her idea of an interesting date if that's what you have to offer a girl.

BUT having said all that, she did say that she hoped you'd do something together soon", so, wait a week, call her and invite her out and IF she keeps the date - go for the kiss at the end of the date and see if she gives you her lips or not. THAT was the biggest mistake, that you didn't go for the kiss. THAT'S the only way to really tell if she's interested or not when you're not sure.

And make it an action date and SHORT. Girls wanna have fun. Go bowling or go to the museum or shoot pool or play miniature golf. Then end it after a couple of hours.

 

[STR8UP]

I'm not gonna say she's a lost cause, but when a chick TELLS you she hooked up with someone else earlier in the week......well....that's bad.

See, women almost always have a guy "at bat", one "on deck" and a bunch sitting around warming the bench.

Sounds like you might be "on deck", but really, anything other than "at bat" with a woman and you are generally wasting your time.

Play it by ear, but keep what I said in mind.

 

[#41]

All in all, the date was less than 2 hours -- so if I was wearing out my welcome, it's a fairly safe bet that there was no "welcome" to begin with.

You're probably right about the talking part, though. I'll have to go over the script in my mind to figure out what I said that might've been taken as a "sell" sign and make sure never to bring the topic up again. I tried to keep things light, but things did swerve a bit into serious discussion every so often.

As far as date content goes, I hear all the talk on here about how action dates are so great -- but I usually get lukewarm reactions to them when I suggest them as first dates, even on girls I end up going on multiple dates with.

 

[jophil28]

I'm not gonna say she's a lost cause, but when a chick TELLS you she hooked up with someone else earlier in the week......well....that's bad.

There are two possible explanations for her telling you this.
On your first date she had NO real obligation to say anything to you about any other guy in her life, so it is safe to assume that she wanted you to hear her "other guy " story...

1. She is telling you indirectly that she has another guy in her life who is MORE attractive and interesting than you and HE got her first.
THis is her way of telling you that HE is her choice and you are not.

OR ---

2.. She told you this because she is "prizing " herself and attempting to create a rivalry between you in which she is fought over by both of you.
IF so, then in effect she is "pedestalizing " herself. She loves the ego boost of having two guys compete for her and women like this frequently continue to play this game forever . She just loves all that attention.

Either explanation is NOT good for you.

I don't know whether I would go back for more. A woman with high IL will NOT pull either of these stunts.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Wow. I'm going to agree with JOPHIL - the girl is creating a triangle. A girl who's that into you, wont confuse you.

However, understand why you're confused; women don't send mixed messages. More often than not there's nothing 'Mixed' being communicated and rather it's a failure to read what a woman is communicating. The average guy tends to 'get' exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own. When a girl goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message - she's got buyers regret, you're not her first priority, she's deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. - the message isn't the 'what ifs', the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? This IS the message.

 

[kdnash82]

Personally I think you were LJBF'd before the date even took place.

You actually spoke on the phone with this girl for 45 minutes? That's like almost an hour!

Imagine the things you could have gotten accomplished if you hadn't been yapping on the phone.

Anyway, I'd say keep this one in your back pocket for now. No contact until she contacts you. Spin some more plates.

After she does contact you, keep the converstation brief. Get to the point of a second date early in the week and get off the phone.

Have her meet you at your place. During the date use your C&F with a little kino and kiss before the end of the date. Hell kiss her after the first 20 minutes of the date. Sooner the better, because when the dates over, she still has to go back to your place to pick up her car.

 

[Mr. Me]

As far as date content goes, I hear all the talk on here about how action dates are so great -- but I usually get lukewarm reactions to them when I suggest them as first dates, even on girls I end up going on multiple dates with.

You're encountering mildly to moderately interested women. A woman sufficiently interested has the attitude "I don't care what we do, it's more about being with you". A less interested woman is more interested in what activity the date is about as that's what she's more interested in. She may join you for the action date if she's mildly interested in you or she may join you for the date if she's not that interested in you but wants to get out. And if she's a golddigger, unless the date is a full three course meal, she'll refuse the date. So action dates not only provide fun instead of a staid sedentary common mundane date, but they help you gauge the woman's interest level.

I tried to keep things light, but things did swerve a bit into serious discussion every so often.

That's when it's likely to say something she doesn't like. It may simply be an honest difference of opinion, but in the first few dates, she looks for reasons not to date you and most times, that will do. This is a good reason why it's best to remain a mystery until she's highly interested as then a reversal occurs where they don't mind these differences because now they prefer to be with you.

 

[#41]

Most women I meet are of moderate to low IL at first. I'm very tall, very average looking, intelligent, but working a job that pays little (but offers amazing experience for later). I usually have to work to get IL high through convo, C&F, and displaying good value - I've never had a girl really interested or into me right off the bat. I have to work for what I get.

I also don't really have any other plates going - so I'll sleep on this one and see if she does anything. If not, no worries.

I was kinda hoping this one was salvageable - this girl was intelligent as hell and legitimately stunning. Its not a combination you usually meet in my part of the midwest.

 

[kdnash82]

Some people just don't listen. You said you don't have any plates spinning, yet you don't plan on spinning any other plates.

You seem destined and content on staying in your current situation. Chasing women and wondering why they don't respond well to your chasing.

Good luck

 

[Mr. Me]

I usually have to work to get IL high through convo, C&F, and displaying good value - I've never had a girl really interested or into me right off the bat. I have to work for what I get.

Maybe you're working too hard at it or going about it in not quite the most effective way. In fact, you shouldn't need to work at it at all, most of raising a woman's interest is done passively.

 

[jophil28]

Most women I meet are of moderate to low IL at first. I'm very tall, very average looking, intelligent, but working a job that pays little (but offers amazing experience for later). I usually have to work to get IL high through convo, C&F, and displaying good value - I've never had a girl really interested or into me right off the bat. I have to work for what I get.

All this hard work on your part MAY come across as you trying too hard. YOu may be seen as desperately "qualifying" yourself for a woman's attention..much like you are auditioning to be hired for a part in a play.
Women are NOT attracted to men who do this. There are numerous reasons why this does not work well.
Perhaps you need to take "Creating Attraction 101 "

 

[#41]

Some people just don't listen. You said you don't have any plates spinning, yet you don't plan on spinning any other plates.

You seem destined and content on staying in your current situation. Chasing women and wondering why they don't respond well to your chasing.

Good luck

Speaking of listening...

I said I didn't have any other plates going right now. These things go in spurts -- sometimes I meet a couple women while I'm out, sometimes I hit dry patches that last a few weeks/months where I'm just not getting anything when I'm out talking to people. I can't just conjure a plate up in the air and start it going.

I've been in a dry patch for the last couple months. It happens, and you're a KBJ of the worst kind if you sit here and claim it never has happened to you a few times in the past.

I probably do try too hard at times, it's something I'm always working on. I'm not a natural to the seduction game, but I like to think I'm getting better. I used to have massive self-confidence issues, but I've learned to live with the things I can't control that are my negatives (my height, my looks) and learned to feel good about my positives (my ambition, my knowledge, my sense of humor / conversation skills, etc.). I still sometimes find myself feeling like I have to work to show the positives a little more, since they don't stand out as some of my negatives do.

Like I said, I'm not perfect, but I'm on here to get better. The sarcasm isn't really appreciated, given that.

 

[#41]

By way of an update, she texted me this evening after work thanking me for a fun night out and saying she had a nice time.

I haven't responded thus far.

 

[SoCalMike]

I met this girl, mid-20s grad student from out of town, a little over a week ago while out and about on the town. We hit it off immediately, isolated, had great kino, danced, and kissed a bit. I got her number and called a few days later; we talked for close to 45 minutes and set up a date for tonight (she claimed she had midterms last week and was planning to spend her time studying).

I picked her up at her place -- she was done up rather nicely and it seemed like she was trying to impress: nicer clothes than usual for a first date, nice perfume, full makeup, etc. We walked around the city chatting for a bit before getting a light dinner and then a stop for coffee.

She was very inquisitive of me and we had good conversation for most of the night with no real dead areas. But, midway through the night, she casually dropped in, while talking about dealing with other people in her major program, that she had hooked up with someone this past week -- I let it just slide and continued with the conversation, but it seemed like a really odd thing to just toss in.

The date ended with a simple hug, a "this was really fun," and her saying she hoped we could do something again soon. I didn't see any indications that said "go for it" on a kiss or anything else.

Am I already likely in the LJBF zone on this one? I would imagine that, were she into me, there wouldn't have been any reference to other guys and there would've been something more of a "go" sign at the end of the date. On the other hand, it was our first time out, she didn't flake despite the fact that over a week passed between our first meeting and this get together, and she was clearly dressed for a "date" and not just a friendly encounter.

Any thoughts or advice on how to proceed would be appreciated. I'd rather not waste my time if she just wants a new friend to hang around with.

I get the impression that she did like you BEFORE the date. She probably was hoping for the date (and you) to be a certain way, and something happened that changed this. It caused her to lose interest in you.

It could be something you said, it could be the way you were dressed, who knows... chicks can be really fickle. One minute they're way into you, and the next some little thing you do makes them uninterested.

Don't sweat it bro. Ask her out again if you want, but if no kiss on second date I wouldn't bother again. To be honest, it sounds very slim that you'll get a kiss on the second date from what you've said already. I mean, talking about hooking up with another dude pretty much says it all. She could be trying to make you jealous, or make herself look like a hot item, but the fact you got no kiss (or indication she wanted one) combined with the guy comment makes me think it's a no go.

One more date max. Then you bail.

 

[SoCalMike]

Dude, your height is NOT a disadvantage. There is really no such thing as "too tall". Unless you're talking freakishly tall, which I doubt you are.

Let's say you're 6'4" - 6'8" range, that is not "too tall". Once you hit 7' then you may have some issues, but even then it could be overcome.

You never see personal ads saying "under this height" it's always "over this height".

Now, if you're really tall, AND really skinny - then you need to bulk up. Don't ever accept this BS about "genetically skinny". I went from a 120lb bag of bones to 165 - with 8%bf in a period of just 3 months. And no, roids weren't used.

 

[#41]

Dude, your height is NOT a disadvantage. There is really no such thing as "too tall". Unless you're talking freakishly tall, which I doubt you are.

Let's say you're 6'4" - 6'8" range, that is not "too tall". Once you hit 7' then you may have some issues, but even then it could be overcome.

I'm actually close to 6'11.

I hit the gym fairly regularly -- mostly to try and keep my somewhat athletic look. I've seen a few too many tall guys who let themselves go to pot around the midsection and it just compounds the problem, IMO.

 

[Mr. Me]

By way of an update, she texted me this evening after work thanking me for a fun night out and saying she had a nice time.
I haven't responded thus far.

She's interested enough to see you again, most probably. Assume that she's sitting on a fence interest-wise, okay? Call her in a day or two, and invite her out to something fun. It doesn't have to be for a Saturday night, in fact, make it for a Sunday afternoon or a weeknight instead. Let her think you've got another date for Saturday.

No 45 minute phone calls! You speak when you meet up with her. And don't text. No IMs. Nothing. You're busy. No kino! That's right, I said, no kino. Let her touch you, if she does. See if she does. Just be cool, go slow, Laugh and have fun. And at the end of the date, when you drop her off, tell her you had a great time, go for a goodnight peck on the lips. No make out session. If she kisses you back, let us know. If she doesn't kiss you back, let us know and forget about her.

Do these things and you'll find that you will get multiple dates from girls, not just one date.

 

[kdnash82]

Speaking of listening...

I said I didn't have any other plates going right now. These things go in spurts -- sometimes I meet a couple women while I'm out, sometimes I hit dry patches that last a few weeks/months where I'm just not getting anything when I'm out talking to people. I can't just conjure a plate up in the air and start it going.

I've been in a dry patch for the last couple months. It happens, and you're a KBJ of the worst kind if you sit here and claim it never has happened to you a few times in the past.

You're the one who said that you didn't have any plates spinning and that you were gonna sleep on the one plate that you aren't really spinning (more like she's spinning you).

Which boils down to you talking to a girl who isn't interested in you, but you feel that you can't find someone else, so you'll wait for her to come around which most likely will not happen.

Anyway, my whole point was for you to stop worrying about this girl and start finding others to talk to.

Have I had dry spells. Yes. Before I got wise to the game (which was before I found this site) and would do the same thing you are doing now. Come across a girl who I think I can be with. Girl isn't into me as much as I was into her, I sit and wait for her to come around and she never does.

Now that I'm smarter, I stop waiting on those women. I go out and find others. I keep plenty in my circle at all times, constantly spinning. None will ever have my complete attention or time and for some strange reason, they gravitate to me more.

Could it be because I'm not following behind them like a little lost puppy waiting on them to drop a crumb for me to lick up?

Not even sure what the hell KJB is and honestly don't care. I tried to shoot you straight with my first comment. You decided that you would continue to chase this girl after everyone told you not to. Hopefully my slap of sarcasm woke you up.