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PRMoon

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Forget dairy milk, learn to drink Soy milk (though it's not really milk it's more like processed soy juice) It's got almost as much protein as milk, less carbohydrates, less fat (it's about even par with 1%), less calcium (easy to make up for if you like vegetetables) and more iron.

There are just as many vitamins in soy milk but they aren't the same ones so it's a vitamin trade off of sorts.

Soy products over all are very good for you and are the perfect supliment to anyone who's looking to get healthier and it will definately aid you in your exercise goals.
 

PRMoon

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Originally posted by Create Reality
Soy turns you into girly man.
I don't know why so many people hate on soy:confused:
If anyone read the label the choice would be pretty easy to make. It does taste different but that's mainly becaue we're all accustom to milk (which really isn't all that good for you after you've exited our infancy)
 

Create Reality

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Originally posted by PRMoon
I don't know why so many people hate on soy:confused:
If anyone read the label the choice would be pretty easy to make. It does taste different but that's mainly becaue we're all accustom to milk (which really isn't all that good for you after you've exited our infancy)
Why isn't milk good for us after infancy?
 

PRMoon

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Originally posted by Create Reality
Why isn't milk good for us after infancy?
Well first off humans are the only mammal who continues to drink milk after infantcy. We drink milk at birth because we need alot of the anti bodies associated with it and such. After that all of these animals seek nutriants from plants or meat. Milk is a short term secretian designed for new borns nothing more. No mammal living in nature seeks to drink milk after their infancy stage of development.

Second what are you really getting out of milk? It's got some protein and some vitamans (most of which can be found some where else). Milk has a lots of fat and cholestorl. 70% of people who drink milk will suffer from some form of lactose intolorance (many will not know) Numerous diseases are associated with milk but concidering the size and money in the dairy industry many of them are discarded as coicidental ailments due to lifestyle.

Then you should also concider that you're drinking an infancy formula from cows. Why on earth are we drinking something that's made for infants of another species of animal? We've all grown so acustom to it that we don't even concider it strange anymore. You don't see other animals drinking the milk of other animals with the exception of domesticated animals (mainly cats) who are seperated from their parents and thus never really go through their natural life cycle. Milks are taylor made for the species of animal from which they nurture ie human milk is the best for human children and cows milk is best for infant cows.

There's actually a pretty long list of why milk isn't that good for you. Not saying you should swear off all dairy foods (I like a little chese from time to time) but having a large regiment of milk will ultimately do more harm then good and there are far better ways to get the nutriants that you find in milk from other places.
 

manuva

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Originally posted by PRMoon
I don't know why so many people hate on soy
Read up on it and you'll quickly find out. It's probably on a par with normal milk in terms of the amount and severity of side effects.

Whoever made the remark about soy turning you into a 'girly man' was probably referring to the fact that soy products contain estrogen simulaters which can really mess a guy up.
 

PRMoon

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I still stand by soy. I eat a block of tofu w/4.5 oz salmon. No I don't have man boobs, i weigh195 w/ 7% bf. I'm not going for too much mass concidering I'm already pretty big (I was about 6 feet tall when i was in the 6th grade) I don't overload on soy products do I doubt I'll suffer from too much loss of testosterone or increased estrogen levels.

I also don't drink THAT much soy milk. I usually have 8oz after i'm done working out with my protein shake. I doubt I'll ever be on a steady regiment of any milk productd as I get most of my protein from fish, which is also low in fat. I suppose if you're trying to build mass then you should probably stick out out with regular milk, but again there are better for getting the same results with other products.
 

al77

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Originally posted by manuva
It seems that everyone is lactose intolerant to some degree, they just aren't aware of it.

People who say they have no problem with milk have usually
I challenge any of the guys here who 'have no problem' with dairy to go without it for 10 weeks or so, and THEN tell me they have no problem when they begin consuming it again.
I have mixed feelings (according to my stomach) ergarding dairy.
But I am very curious: do you consume whey protein at all?
As far as I know whey is a derivative of milk.
 

manuva

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Originally posted by al77
But I am very curious: do you consume whey protein at all?
As far as I know whey is a derivative of milk.
Currently, no I don't consume whey. I have in the past, and I will in the future, but not right now - I tend to cycle it for personal health reasons.

Whey protein however - particularly Isolate - is so well refined these days that its lactose content is very low. I can consume most whey protein without too much ill feeling, but I still cycle on and off to give my digestive system a break.

I currently use a rice-based protein, which is not as nice and not as biologically available, but better for me personally.

Cycling off whey also encourages me to get my protein from real food sources, which is far more anabolic than any supplement.
 

Warboss Alex

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If people replaced all whey shakes with whole egg shakes they'd be a lot of bigger people around.
 

Create Reality

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So don't tell me cottage cheese is just as bad as milk (well do tell me if it really is). I discovered lowfat cottage cheese as a great protein source before bed. For about 2 dollars I can buy a pint of it and it's got about 52g of whey based protein. Plus it tastes great with some seasoning.

If it's the hormones you say are bad in dairy, all I know is that you don't wanna eat stuff treated with rBST. I don't know much more than that and if anyone's got some links, it's much appreciated. Dairy is a major part of my diet and I would hate to not know if Im doing myself any damage.
 

al77

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Originally posted by Warboss Alex
If people replaced all whey shakes with whole egg shakes they'd be a lot of bigger people around.
I feel (I have no proof) it is true. But how many eggs you need to consume insteda of 24g (once scoop) protein shake?
About 24/6=4! That means four eggs before a workour and 4 after it. 8 eggs per training day.

I have a bit of a problem consuming about 25 egg yolks per week on a regular basis, a month or two is fine, even a half a year is ok.
But to do it all teh time seems a way above any kind of norm for egg consumption: that will have side effects sooner or later. They just do not show up fast.

I'd surely consume egg whites... but that seem expensive a bit and goes againt my frugal nature to throw away egg yolks...
 

al77

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Originally posted by Create Reality
So don't tell me cottage cheese is just as bad as milk (well do tell me if it really is).
I guess it is. I love the taste of dairy product: cheese, butter milk, sour cream.. but american cottage cheese taste very unnatural to me. Plus my stomach is upset after I try it.

Read the label: they put all sort of crap in it.
So based on this personal experience I don't eat it anymore.
 

smoothoperator86

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k lemme clear some of this up, im very big into lifting and have been for some time, read wieghtlifting magazines to learn some more stuff- google searches are not reliable sources of nutrition information.

1. Unless you're lactose intolerant milk is great, thats why ur supposed to have 3 or more servings a day of it

2. Whey protein is one of 2 types of protein that come from milk it is hugely important to take before and after you lift, i take one sccop b4 and 2 after along with some carbs. Whey protein is effective b/c it gets into ur system faster than any other protein.

3. Casien is the other form of protein from milk and should be taken b4 bed- thats why cottage cheese is good b4 sleeping

4. Egg protein is great if u r allergic to milk or just in general

take whey b4 and after u lift, casien b4 bed, eggs whenever, and milk is good for you...VERY GOOD
 

NewDude001

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lol, you got weightlifting mags and I have the New England Journal of Medecine. I think I win.

It's well known that milk in general is bad. American milk on the other hand is TERRIBLE. :down:
 

A-Unit

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Re:

I'm in the NON-dairy camp, if only for small quantities. However, the American diet is very much based on dairy products.

-Lots of food products require milk or cheese.
-Meat from cows
-cottage cheese
-Milk by products

*What consumers have to grasp is the logic of drinking another animals milk, which as PRmoon mentioned, each species lactates specific foods for their young, because the young cannot consume whole food until much larger.

*Mother's milk vs most other animal milks are very, very different. Mother's milk has a LOW protein content, but a HIGH healthy fat contact. Whereas, cow milk has significant water, cholesterol, and protein content. The cow has much more DRAMATIC growth to endure throughout is life.

*The claim to fame the milk is a good source of calcium is WRONG. The body requires equal parts of calcium and magnesium to digest and assimilate calcium. If it does not have mangesium, then only a portion of the calcium is digest, the rest is expelled via urine. So if milk is SOO good, why is the #1 benefit statement, also the reason milk does not work UNLESS drank with other minerals in order to digest and use the calcium. It's already deficient, and we haven't listed other good sources.

*For bulking, the fats are UNHEALTHY fats and bad cholesterols, further worsening your health position. Good fats, as most body builders know, are those Omega 3's, 6's and fish oils, or found in olive oils, avocados, etc. Mono and poly unstaturated fats. None of THESE fats are in milk, so you're drinking a substance of which the nutrient content does not benefit you.

*Regarding protein, per 8oz of milk, it's relatively low, when compared calorically to eggs, chicken breast, whey protein, fish, lamb, etc. To get 30+ grams, you'd be drinking 1/2 a gallon, of which you'd gain significant calories, digest many pesticides, growth hormones, pus (white blood cells), blood of the cow, and pretty much anything else it has eaten, consumed, or expelled into its udders.

*MOST of the milk is water; about 86%+ is water, the other pieces are fats, protein, and carbs, and minerals that can't be digest by humans.

*When milk was pure, from cows only producting 2000 gallons per year, naturally on farms, outside, milked by farmers, and drank that day, IT might have been ok to consume, since families would only have 1 serving with a meal, in which magnesium would be present. Again, food stuffs were in smaller rations. We didn't have the large supermarkets and wal-marts, nor did we hold food for severals. We'd buy it then, and eat it then.

But now, most milk is kept 7 days or more, and once in the fridge, the bacteria content doubles every 20 minutes, until its totally gone bad. This is why if you go on vaca, or open it, and drink it sparingly, the milk goes bad.

*Studies confirm also, that ALL forms of milk has various components of what a mother expells, not just cows. Studies show, women expell blood, pus, hormones, poison, toxins, and pretty much anything else from her environment INTO the breast milk. Hence, this is WHY it's imperative for a woman to be healthy throughout her period of pregnancy, otherwise her good and bad habits show in the womb, and afterwards via her breast milk.

Today, we have a wide variety of choices, but these choices are very limited because people don't REALLY know what to consume in order to achieve their individual goals. We're a time starved society, so people don't MAKE or GROW their own food. They want fast, cheap, now, and quick, and if possible, nutritious. However, they CAN and WILL leave out nutrition.

Milk is cheap.
We were raised on breast milk, then told to drink regular milk, since it has that 'healthy' motherly quality.
Product placement is high.
It's in a lot recipes, desserts, coffee, meals, etc, so it's hard to avoid.

*Just because you did it for awhile, or the mass media still pumps it DOES NOT mean it's right. In fact, the MAJORITY of Americans contract cancer, diabetes, heart problems, osteoprosis, etc, so by one's admission, if that's THE majority of people taking, I'd go the route of whoever IS NOT in that majority.

The logic that THE PUBLIC does it, or the NOBODY knows about it, only puts to the inability to think for oneself and discern credible facts, mass stupidity, ignorance, and a lack of responsibility.

A glass here and there, or a pizza MIGHT not kill you, but it sure won't AID in your quality of life DOWN the road, and milk doesn't provide a lot benefit to consuming it NOW that it's worth consuming over your lifetime. This isn't the "you gotta die someway" idea that smokers position, since I've had 3 relatives die of tobacco related deaths, and ALL of them would have preferred NOT going that way, given how painfull, long-lasting, and costly it was. But, to each his own.

I'm here for the neophyte, who has no knowledge of the waste that milk is today, how it doesn't benefit your health now, and will over time, diminish your health.

If anything, drink breast milk straight from the tits of a how prego milf, and try that for a few sips. Otherwise, why bother with an animal that's more jacked with hormones and steroids than all bodybuilders the Planet has ever seen, eats its feces, lives in squalor, does not consume plants as it once did. Blah blah blah.

Also, a starting point for the concise website is.

www.notmilk.com

Unlike the milk industry, such sites do NOT have an investment in their message, only the freeing of 1 more person from the matrix of deceit that appears to be the human experience.



A-Unit
 

treefingers

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Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit
I'm in the NON-dairy camp, if only for small quantities. However, the American diet is very much based on dairy products.

-Lots of food products require milk or cheese.
-Meat from cows
-cottage cheese
-Milk by products

*What consumers have to grasp is the logic of drinking another animals milk, which as PRmoon mentioned, each species lactates specific foods for their young, because the young cannot consume whole food until much larger.

*Mother's milk vs most other animal milks are very, very different. Mother's milk has a LOW protein content, but a HIGH healthy fat contact. Whereas, cow milk has significant water, cholesterol, and protein content. The cow has much more DRAMATIC growth to endure throughout is life.

*The claim to fame the milk is a good source of calcium is WRONG. The body requires equal parts of calcium and magnesium to digest and assimilate calcium. If it does not have mangesium, then only a portion of the calcium is digest, the rest is expelled via urine. So if milk is SOO good, why is the #1 benefit statement, also the reason milk does not work UNLESS drank with other minerals in order to digest and use the calcium. It's already deficient, and we haven't listed other good sources.

*For bulking, the fats are UNHEALTHY fats and bad cholesterols, further worsening your health position. Good fats, as most body builders know, are those Omega 3's, 6's and fish oils, or found in olive oils, avocados, etc. Mono and poly unstaturated fats. None of THESE fats are in milk, so you're drinking a substance of which the nutrient content does not benefit you.

*Regarding protein, per 8oz of milk, it's relatively low, when compared calorically to eggs, chicken breast, whey protein, fish, lamb, etc. To get 30+ grams, you'd be drinking 1/2 a gallon, of which you'd gain significant calories, digest many pesticides, growth hormones, pus (white blood cells), blood of the cow, and pretty much anything else it has eaten, consumed, or expelled into its udders.

*MOST of the milk is water; about 86%+ is water, the other pieces are fats, protein, and carbs, and minerals that can't be digest by humans.

*When milk was pure, from cows only producting 2000 gallons per year, naturally on farms, outside, milked by farmers, and drank that day, IT might have been ok to consume, since families would only have 1 serving with a meal, in which magnesium would be present. Again, food stuffs were in smaller rations. We didn't have the large supermarkets and wal-marts, nor did we hold food for severals. We'd buy it then, and eat it then.

But now, most milk is kept 7 days or more, and once in the fridge, the bacteria content doubles every 20 minutes, until its totally gone bad. This is why if you go on vaca, or open it, and drink it sparingly, the milk goes bad.

*Studies confirm also, that ALL forms of milk has various components of what a mother expells, not just cows. Studies show, women expell blood, pus, hormones, poison, toxins, and pretty much anything else from her environment INTO the breast milk. Hence, this is WHY it's imperative for a woman to be healthy throughout her period of pregnancy, otherwise her good and bad habits show in the womb, and afterwards via her breast milk.

Today, we have a wide variety of choices, but these choices are very limited because people don't REALLY know what to consume in order to achieve their individual goals. We're a time starved society, so people don't MAKE or GROW their own food. They want fast, cheap, now, and quick, and if possible, nutritious. However, they CAN and WILL leave out nutrition.

Milk is cheap.
We were raised on breast milk, then told to drink regular milk, since it has that 'healthy' motherly quality.
Product placement is high.
It's in a lot recipes, desserts, coffee, meals, etc, so it's hard to avoid.

*Just because you did it for awhile, or the mass media still pumps it DOES NOT mean it's right. In fact, the MAJORITY of Americans contract cancer, diabetes, heart problems, osteoprosis, etc, so by one's admission, if that's THE majority of people taking, I'd go the route of whoever IS NOT in that majority.

The logic that THE PUBLIC does it, or the NOBODY knows about it, only puts to the inability to think for oneself and discern credible facts, mass stupidity, ignorance, and a lack of responsibility.

A glass here and there, or a pizza MIGHT not kill you, but it sure won't AID in your quality of life DOWN the road, and milk doesn't provide a lot benefit to consuming it NOW that it's worth consuming over your lifetime. This isn't the "you gotta die someway" idea that smokers position, since I've had 3 relatives die of tobacco related deaths, and ALL of them would have preferred NOT going that way, given how painfull, long-lasting, and costly it was. But, to each his own.

I'm here for the neophyte, who has no knowledge of the waste that milk is today, how it doesn't benefit your health now, and will over time, diminish your health.

If anything, drink breast milk straight from the tits of a how prego milf, and try that for a few sips. Otherwise, why bother with an animal that's more jacked with hormones and steroids than all bodybuilders the Planet has ever seen, eats its feces, lives in squalor, does not consume plants as it once did. Blah blah blah.

Also, a starting point for the concise website is.

www.notmilk.com

Unlike the milk industry, such sites do NOT have an investment in their message, only the freeing of 1 more person from the matrix of deceit that appears to be the human experience.


A-Unit



I agree with you on milk. But also remember that a lot of the same can be said for eating meat in general. From chicken breasts to pork chops to ground beef they are all given hormones and fed really really bad stuff. So we can slam milk all day but then turn around and eat meat which in a lot of ways is messed up just as bad.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

I agree on the meat portion.

To me, there's more of a craving to eat meat, even though we weren't necessarily designed for it, we've found ways to adapt.

It's long been a LUXURY in most countries, until mass production and affluence struck America. In other countries, meat isn't a staple of their diet, as it is in America. And you know it's bad when you can a burger (cow) in under 3 minutes from any fast food joint.

I USED to be a big meat eater as my mother would cook them, but now I usually eat it once a week, saving any protein for eggs, cottage cheese (sparingly), some chicke, whey protein, nuts/almonds, etc.

The beautiful thing about 'natural' food, i.e not man made, is that they come with their enzymes to digest themselves. There's a certain 'energy' to food. When you have dead food, or protein bars, you feel different. Your whole body reacts differently. If you weigh it down with lots of heavy crap, or get overly full, it's just disgusting and unhealthy.

--------------------------------------------

A-Unit
 

NewDude001

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Humans were effective hunter-gatherers since the beginnings of the evolution of man. Our systems have adapted to processing animal proteins very well. However, this is not at all the case for milk, which has been around for only 8,000-10,000 years.

Yes, the meat we eat today isn't 100% ideal for consumption (unless you buy organic), but at least it is a food our body can recognize and fully digest.
 
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