menarebetterthanwomen.com

[Hooligan Harry]

Men are just as much to blame for the current situation as woman are. Too many act like fags

 

[TheHumanist]

I see someone's read "The Secret".

Here's another little secret for you. I've come to accept that many of the things that men like this, **** M., Tom Lykus, etc., say about women are true DUE TO PERSONAL EXPIRENCES THAT VALIDATE THEIR POINTS.

At a certain point you realize that all these "negative" statements about the nature of women aren't "garbage" or mysogeny- but rather a deduction from documented behavior. In fact, the terms mysogney and "woman hating" are just weapons used by women, and their mangina puppets, to cover up and shame and discredit those who reveal their true nature.

I do not contest their experiences. However, see a point in Aenigma writing. Currently, I read Tom Leykis and Matterson along with DJs who coincides heavily with their views. I'm probably the best example of the young mind tayiuu is talking about, a man of relatively lesser experience and quite open to hearing the ideas of others including negative ideas of women.

So far to be honest, my experiences have not coincide harshly enough to thinking like Leykis/Matterson. In fact, thinking like them in the past and automatically judging the women around me are selfish, materialistic, vapid, unmotivated, disloyal, and cowardly have seem to do more damage than good for me. Especially when many women I met have done nothing but good for me, but instead of being grateful and give some trust, I continue to give the same hostile and suspicious eye under the surface. An endless internal conflict "Well, she been a pretty good girlfriend/friend/classmate/co-worker" vs "no girl is different, that ***** is gonna slip up sooner or later." Not too long ago I went on a trip to do community service and a good part of the time I gave a harsh eye to the girls continuously judging along Leykis lines and they were serving soup to homeless people!

You know what my trouble listening to Leykis and reading Matterson. They might be unplug from the matrix, but what they teach and tell others. They aren't giving them a Red Pills and coming out free, the thing people are going to pick up from them most is the thing they say the most, and that includes starting to think "every women is a cheater, has cheated, and is cheating at this very moment." "They shouldn't vote." "A women fired is a penny saved." Great, I should take that, and look over across this computer and just think to myself, wow "you're a *****, likely playing a guy right now, all your troubles are BS, my supervisor should fire you, and you should just drop out of college and give up your studies in economics.

Another thing that continues to bother me is other men who are success and living a good life (or seems to be). People like my professor. People like Randy Pausch who gain a large amount of notice like Matterson though not mainstream famous either. Why are they so much more positive? Many of them are married and married for years. Why do they seem to be going so well, without looking so unkindly? I rather follow their footsteps if I can.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Why are they so much more positive?"

Perhaps they won the lottery and found a woman like Penkitten?

Or

Maybe they are like the creepy portion of American society that is foolishly optimistic even in the face of continued horrible things happening to them where as other people react more naturally to harsh things happening to them by becoming cynics or misanthropes or a more gentler and practical version of both known as a realist.

People might find Randy Pausch's behavior after finding out he was going to die inspiring as he was still so positive but I look at it as one of many examples of creepy American positivity when there is absolutely no reason to be positive.

This guy was about to have his life snuffed out by a random and cruel act of nature, lose all that he worked for as well as his young wife and family yet he's giving a lecture in an upbeat manner, writing books and appearing on tv shows?

Inspiring to many for sure but also damned creepy.

I've had plenty of family members die from cancer and when they learned they had it they didn't immediately start doing one armed push ups and put on the old happy face in the face of adversity.

They more or less went from absolute horror to worried acceptance and stayed there until the end.

And to me thats much more natural than what Pausch did.

Maybe Pausch died happier but the fact remains...

He's dead and the positivity ultimately didn't do him any good.

And also humanist you are understandably following Masterson and Leykis wrong not having much experience with women by your own admission.

You would be able to see their advice in a different light if say you'd married your high school sweetheart at the age of 18 and then she cruelly divorces you and takes more than half your earnings and your house after 20 years of marriage, and ontop of that you have to continue paying for 3 kids that another man who she'd been cheating with on the side that was the real reason for the divorce is now raising your young kids who have started to call him daddy. All of this is horrible enough on its own but think of the humiliation factor you'd face from family and friends being all alone in the world and losing a lifetime of what you worked for in the blink of an eye because that b!tch you were married to randomly decided she needed a little excitement in her life via someone else. You lose your whole family, get stamped by society as damaged for not being able to hold a marriage together even though it wasn't your fault for its failure and ontop of all this you have to pay continually for 18 years to some cheating piece of sh!t even after she's taken your house.

These are scenarios young guys like yourself often don't consider before labelling some guy unjustifiably bitter or misogynistic or immature or whatever.

When you go through a lot of bad experiences like this despite being a well adjusted guy which many guys who have went through this kind of horror were it does not reflect badly on their characters but those of women although society most often shames the men in these situations but how could it not? On the surface the woman looks like the winner. Brand new man, house to herself that she didn't work for, well taken care of kids, money up the wazoo, she's got it made while her ex whom she screwed over is trying to put the emotional pieces of his life back together and is viewed by society as not worth much because he's by himself at the moment.

If you go through a bad experience like this or an equivalent you follow Leykis and Masterson's advice towards women without hostileness or bitterness and do you know why?

Because all the anger and emotion has been drained out of you by how cruel and evil women can be. You can no longer muster up the ability to care enough to think with hostility or bitterness towards them. The noncaring nature that your experience then brings about in a sick twist then brings you more women than you could've ever dreamed of having.

Indeed you come to accept women for what they are and use the knowledge from Leykis and Masterson that you now realize through your own experience will work.

You look back on your disasterous marriage or epic fail of a long term relationship and you see exactly where what Masterson or Leykis said at one time would've applied and helped you out in the relationship or marriage but you didn't know to do that at the time because you were still under the false illusion and teaching of "love is all you need".

Well love by itself is not enough in today's world with today's women.

For today's woman you need to be exciting, daring, ambitious, have a backbone to stand up to her when she's wrong, be a leader, have ideas on things to do and places to go, etc.

Love by itself will not get you through and honestly with all the options and competition out there these days even the added traits will likely not keep her with you for as long as you want which is what Leykis in particular keeps on hammering home about on his show regularly which is why his advice to stay out of relationships and marriage with today's women is so on the money.

So guys that have been through hell and back with women may hate them at first afterwards but then as they come to think about it they realize they never actually hated women after all but the bullsh!t teachings that society fed them which said to them that women thought in the same ways that they did about love and relationships.

Women really don't think in those same ways (except for a few exceptions to the rule here and there) or value the same things men do and if all young men were taught that there'd be a lot less failed relationships and marriages and cause for dissapointment as boys would be taught from the beginning what to expect from a woman and how to get exactly what they want in any given scenario with a woman that would make her happy too.

There'd be no dissapointment as there'd be no false idol image of women built up for young men to chase after only to find out it was society's own false idealized ideal woman and not women as they actually are.

In conclusion and now that I think about it even more a word that describes Leykis, Masterson and their followers that is much more true to the reality of what these men are would be "jaded".

And I realize thats just another feminist shaming word but if you look at the definition meaning of it this describes those who can follow Masterson and Leykis's teachings the best ie those that are worn out by the world and have seen too many familiar patterns in women to think of them in any other way.

So humanist when young inexperienced guys like you hear Leykis or Masterson you might automatically think you are hearing the voice of bitterness and misogyny but in reality they are well past the emotional stage of those terms and well into the jaded/misanthropic/cynic mindset, the just telling it like it is mindset and an even better word that I think leaves all the shaming garbage words behind...

They are realists.

And to make this even more palatable to you I will acknowledge that we are all products of our experiences and they are realists from the perspective of what they have experienced as are their listeners.

You may go on to be the nice guy, luck out and win the lottery and find a woman like Penkitten so then from your experience of that one good woman your reality will be quite different than theirs.

 

[bigjohnson]

Masterson nails it pretty well but his use of hyperbole is distracting. I particularly like his discussion on why the gender wage disparity is fictional.

 

[TheHumanist]

"Why are they so much more positive?"

Perhaps they won the lottery and found a woman like Penkitten?

Or

Maybe they are like the creepy portion of American society that is foolishly optimistic even in the face of continued horrible things happening to them where as other people react more naturally to harsh things happening to them by becoming cynics or misanthropes or a more gentler and practical version of both known as a realist.

People might find Randy Pausch's behavior after finding out he was going to die inspiring as he was still so positive but I look at it as one of many examples of creepy American positivity when there is absolutely no reason to be positive.

This guy was about to have his life snuffed out by a random and cruel act of nature, lose all that he worked for as well as his young wife and family yet he's giving a lecture in an upbeat manner, writing books and appearing on tv shows?

Inspiring to many for sure but also damned creepy.

I've had plenty of family members die from cancer and when they learned they had it they didn't immediately start doing one armed push ups and put on the old happy face in the face of adversity.

They more or less went from absolute horror to worried acceptance and stayed there until the end.

And to me thats much more natural than what Pausch did.

Maybe Pausch died happier but the fact remains...

He's dead and the positivity ultimately didn't do him any good.

You know, part of me want to flame you for calling Pausch creepy, but it is your opinion and it is my pride since I consider him a person to aspire (and it not just because he kept positive in face of death). BTW, he did felt shock and horror, and admitted in an interview of crying when he is by himself each day. What make him admirable and different is the fact he didn't just kept crying the whole day till he died, he made the most out of each day he can do. He played the cards he was dealt with as best as he can. What's more is the fact he lived and accomplished more goals and lived well more than the majority of people. He accomplished more of his dreams than many ever did in a lifetime. If he wasn't diagnose with cancer, he would have likely continue on with things going very well for him. He positive DID do good, what would be the realist reaction to facing death? Making the most of the hand or just folding? He could have just folded at that news and kept crying till his heart gave out.

 

[TheHumanist]

And also humanist you are understandably following Masterson and Leykis wrong not having much experience with women by your own admission.

I'm guess you missed a preposition after wrong as in following Leykis wrong by not having much experience.

FYI, if you are misreading, I didn't said I have no experience. However, yes, I did not married my high school sweetheart at 19 nor have an epic fail LTR. I have not lived long enough to live that (with exception of a few who became couples at like 15 then get the epic fail at 19).

I have not married someone and went through a bitter divorce. Or in Leykis case, multiple divorces. I would likely see the same way if three different women that I loved decided to just bail and hurt me so much despite I did not unconscionable wrong.

However, in my experiences and observations things are different. My current girl treats me like a king and yet thus far very patient in my busy life. She is basically great company who loves to tag along on my antics along with... other fun stuff... Those I look to as examples go do many good things and doesn't seem to be getting screwed over.

I think of many various people through my life: teachers, professors, bosses, co-workers, friends, family, etc. Some are divorced, but many are still together, many of them for decades (null if consider marriages formed decades ago are no longer possible today). I have heard/known of many professors/teachers and their wives/family, still together and seem to be going well, although all I have is short meeting with their wives at college events and professors digressing into humorous stories, I like to think it is a sign of things going well if they are attending events and able to still interact. Within my family, most of my older relatives are still married, including my parents (relative happiness is debatable). Some of my older cousins are doing quite fine. I can think of a good number of old acquaintances and friends who are still together and getting along well. There is also one example of a girl with a very AFC guy (he is the most AFC guy I know sadly), when I learned about that couple, I'm surprised they are still together and that she didn't screwed him over in many different ways (academically, financially, prioritively, etc). Poor guy to be honest, eventually she will leave him. The girl have pretty good character to stay loyal to him this long and not taking advantage of him, if he only can be convinced to not keep doing all the pedestaling **** and insecurities he keeps doing. Then there are others I know from various ways.

Basically, around me, I have examples of continuing success instead of the world Str8up describes. If my observations and experiences point at one direction, my instinct that while I should question it if it is reality, currently, the only reason to not listen is fear that I will end up wrong and paying painful price.

You would be able to see their advice in a different light if say you'd married your high school sweetheart at the age of 18 and then she cruelly divorces you and takes more than half your earnings and your house after 20 years of marriage, and ontop of that you have to continue paying for 3 kids that another man who she'd been cheating with on the side that was the real reason for the divorce is now raising your young kids who have started to call him daddy. All of this is horrible enough on its own but think of the humiliation factor you'd face from family and friends being all alone in the world and losing a lifetime of what you worked for in the blink of an eye because that b!tch you were married to randomly decided she needed a little excitement in her life via someone else. You lose your whole family, get stamped by society as damaged for not being able to hold a marriage together even though it wasn't your fault for its failure and ontop of all this you have to pay continually for 18 years to some cheating piece of sh!t even after she's taken your house.

These are scenarios young guys like yourself often don't consider before labelling some guy unjustifiably bitter or misogynistic or immature or whatever.
.
.
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So humanist when young inexperienced guys like you hear Leykis or Masterson you might automatically think you are hearing the voice of bitterness and misogyny but in reality they are well past the emotional stage of those terms and well into the jaded/misanthropic/cynic mindset, the just telling it like it is mindset and an even better word that I think leaves all the shaming garbage words behind...

They are realists.

And to make this even more palatable to you I will acknowledge that we are all products of our experiences and they are realists from the perspective of what they have experienced as are their listeners.

You may go on to be the nice guy, luck out and win the lottery and find a woman like Penkitten so then from your experience of that one good woman your reality will be quite different than theirs.

First I want to say you did a good job explaining your thinking of realism. From your experiences, it is just what you guys concluded from it, it is not cynical if you took from your own experiences.

Do not think I'm just a nice guy if you are going by the common connotation or Sosuave meaning. I'm not some suck-up nor allow myself to be somebody's whipped b!tch. Sosuave categorize what women really meant by "nice guy" as a "good man." Part of me is actually a little irritated with that saying "you may go on being a nice guy," sensing a bit of irony like talking to a child. I do have a firm code of ethics based on Enlightenment Humanism and Aristotelian Ethics with some pragmaticism to avoid danger. I don't aim to be a chump.

I read 48 Laws of Power and do take application, though I perfer Dale Carnegie's book as it seem to be applying it with some morality. I know of Machiavelli's The Prince which I don't see that it is that cynical, much is common sense but not open to acknowledge it. Popular culture thinks his advice is to kill a random person everyday to instill fear, in reality he would be against that.

I don't think that "Love conquers all." I know very much especially at younger and more dynamic age that pressures can break resistance. I accept that and live in the moment, taking memory of things going well to enjoy it while it last.

In that MM forum with that thread about 10 things I wish I knew before 30, most of the advice I try to follow it and make perfect sense. Education, budget, time, people, and anything else mentioned, the two exception is Str8up view on women and people and some of fuzzx.

Sosuave's message of self improvement, looking out for oneself, taking heed of some of the actions women can do, leading, basically making a good, fun life. I have no problem taking it, and I believe I was trying to before I came here, but some refinement did come from here.

Look, I can and do see a good number of logical sense of Leykis and Masterson, but the just a few of his tenets and the reasoning behind it along with Masterson's 20% of his thinking. Sorry, but I do not see it.

Finally, I detect elements of the darker world, but it seems to be at the edges of my world. From a friend of a friend who is going AFC. From party girls who I walk past drunk as hell (it seems all they are good for is only one thing). From my close friend down the hall who tells me how his sister is said to be very hot and she loves to go sit at the bars to get free drinks and go home alone along with how much he love it here as back home in sticksville everyone is living in debt, repeating a cycle of never getting anywhere generation after generation. Also from my noticing back in high school that all the people I get to know on a decent level are all in the top 15% which are people who either study hard enough or smart enough to do decent stuff. The early marriage and teenage pregnancy with massive drinking without control all seem to be in the lower percentile. My friend noticed the same thing with his high school.

BTW, if Randy Pausch is just too hard to accept. How bout that Matt guy who is traveling the world. His blog seem to be quite upbeat and he have an ltr girl who supports what he does.

Still, as a humanist, philosopher, thinker, and fellow computer scientist. Randy Paush FTW.

 

[KontrollerX]

Hmmm, I can see where you may of gotten offended over my Pausch comment but really I only meant to use him as an example.

In reality I think American culture has a creepy optimism about it for whenever things get really bad or something really bad happens.

You can see this kind of unrelenting optimism in certain 3rd world nations as well and I've come to find it to be creepy and people denying reality rather than the view the optimists take of it such as well they're just making the best of it.

Why people do this I'm guessing is because of an emotional overload, in other words it must be a coping mechanism of some sort which I suppose is understandable under the harshest of circumstances but is it a normal thing and way humans are always naturally supposed to respond to very horrible things?

I really don't think so.

I think its a kind of trance escapism, a trauma based optimism and for that I don't find it to be inspiring at all but saddening on a very deep level.

I didn't find "The Last Lecture" to be inspiring for this very reason.

I viewed Mr. Pausch's optimism as trauma based which it was considering the fact that he was going to die soon and he knew it.

Everyone who wants to get inspired by that is welcome to it of course but I viewed it in a different light and could only feel sad for the man.

"FYI, if you are misreading, I didn't said I have no experience. "

If you read my quote that you seem to of given an angry response to I say "not having much experience with women by your own admission".

I never implied or even said you had no experience.

I basically repeated exactly what you have said about yourself.

"what would be the realist reaction to facing death?"

Doing whatever you can to fight it tooth and nail and not getting extra optimistic just because you have a very potentially fatal condition.

I watched my dad fight melanoma skin cancer and lose to it as did I watch his best friend not very much later fight mesothelioma cancer and lose to that.

Neither of these men got overly optimistic about living life to the fullest or any of this other stuff, there was no one armed pushups or pep talks to me and others, what there was, was a lot of somberness, a lot of fighting when the doctors would tell them they may have a chance with this or that treatment, some relaxation days with laughs and jokes about unrelated things to ease the tension but definitely there was none of the pie in the sky optimism seen in the Last Lecture or other instances I've seen it on display in American society and 3rd world nations at totally unappropriate times for it.

In short my dad and his best friend faced death with I guess a clear mind.

They very well knew they'd likely die but it didn't traumatize either man into going into full stop optimism mode to cope.

Thats all I'm saying.

They were traumatized at first of course upon getting the news of their cancers but their minds quickly recovered and went into realism mode.

Randy Pausch sadly may of remained in mental trauma over this until his death.

 

[STR8UP]

If you go through a bad experience like this or an equivalent you follow Leykis and Masterson's advice towards women without hostileness or bitterness and do you know why?

Because all the anger and emotion has been drained out of you by how cruel and evil women can be. You can no longer muster up the ability to care enough to think with hostility or bitterness towards them. The noncaring nature that your experience then brings about in a sick twist then brings you more women than you could've ever dreamed of having.

I don't think I have ever been through a "bitter" stage. Angry? Yea....still to this day certain things women do piss me off. But the trick of it is to take it for WHAT it is, and not get caught up in self-pity and blaming women for something that they are doing naturally to ensure their survival.

It's a bit disheartening to think about the cold, hard facts, and that's why so many guys will hold out to the bitter end that there are "good" girls out there, etc. It's tough to face the fact that the fairy tale you were sold as a kid is in fact more of a nightmare to many men.

These men still hold the notion that its your duty as a human being to reproduce and sacrifice to provide a stable home for your offspring, and the thought of entering into matrimony with uncertainty scares the living hell out of them, so instead they choose to "remain optimistic", calling others out with the same shaming tactics women use.

You look back on your disasterous marriage or epic fail of a long term relationship and you see exactly where what Masterson or Leykis said at one time would've applied and helped you out in the relationship or marriage but you didn't know to do that at the time because you were still under the false illusion and teaching of "love is all you need".

Man, if I had a dollar for every time I heard SOME type of variation of that coming out of a woman's mouth....

Could you IMAGINE what things would be like if we ALL thought like women? The world would be an absolute fukking DISASTER.

"You have to take a chance"

"You don't want to die old and lonely, do you?"

"You don't want to go through life with regret, do you?"

"If I am truly in love with someone I would be happy living in a cardboard box" (<---this one is my favorite!)

Lets all just throw caution to the wind and follow that warm fuzzy feeling from now on. We'll see how far that gets us....

I honestly don't know what would happen if men didn't have that gut instinct to AVOID commitment at a young age, to the wrong woman, etc. The planet would probably be in a state of mass chaos within a year.

For today's woman you need to be exciting, daring, ambitious, have a backbone to stand up to her when she's wrong, be a leader, have ideas on things to do and places to go, etc.

In other words, you have to be superman to please them.

Nowadays life is too easy. Opportunities for a woman to cheat are EVERYWHERE, and it's easy to get away with. It's also easy to leave a marriage, so everyone goes into it thinking, "I'll try it out".

Women really don't think in those same ways (except for a few exceptions to the rule here and there) or value the same things men do and if all young men were taught that there'd be a lot less failed relationships and marriages and cause for dissapointment as boys would be taught from the beginning what to expect from a woman and how to get exactly what they want in any given scenario with a woman that would make her happy too.

Exactly. Because no matter what a woman says she wants to be LED. The problem today is that women say this and that leading young men to think women want this when they really want that. And it takes most gusy a lot of pain and suffering just to realize that women DO NOT know what the hell they REALLY want.

 

[KontrollerX]

Good follow up post Str8up.

"However, in my experiences and observations things are different. My current girl treats me like a king and yet thus far very patient in my busy life. She is basically great company who loves to tag along on my antics along with... other fun stuff... Those I look to as examples go do many good things and doesn't seem to be getting screwed over."

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128517

Read Night Time Pimp's two posts in his thread on page 1 and page 2 and see if that describes your girl.

The good things he says I mean.

Obviously at the moment the good things he mentions about his ex of 5 years still apply to your current girlfriend or presumably you wouldn't be with her.

Now I know with this bit of text you are transitioning into a larger point but I just wanted to make a small point here of my own that what happened to this guy who thought he'd found a good girl could very well happen to you as well from the girl you think is your angel right now.

And the thing is she very well may be your angel now and love you now and want to be with you now and love everything about you now but women are all about the moment to moment aspect of life.

You've got to stay ontop of your game humanist almost every second of every day and even if you do all that sadly in a few years from now she may trade you up despite all those efforts of yours because newness is what she may come to crave down the line.

Anyway the small point I want to make is not that you should be paranoid and looking over your shoulder constantly but I want you to think of someone like Tom Leykis or myself as guys that are trying to throw you a life raft that says when you are a young guy its best to avoid the relationship trap because with young women in this day and age as scandalous as they are and can be over time with so many options at their disposal the smart money says its best to simply play the field for now and if you still want a relationship wait until 25 or a bit later and actually now that I think about it Rollo is always saying this too. Also its best to go for an older chick for this whose been through a few relationships herself as she has likely broken up with and had guys break up with her and felt the sting of all that and has a newfound appreciation for everything and is more grounded.

Of course its not always guaranteed an older chick is going to be gold but I'd argue a person would on average more often than not get a successful relationship going that stands the test of time and is worth the effort with an older chick than say someone lucking out and winning the lottery and finding that rare 18 or 19 year old hot piece of ass that is ready to settle down with him for the rest of her young nubile life giving him not only her youth but her party years as well.

The message Tom also gives of course is that it is a completely valid and enriching life to lead to just hook up with women your whole life, have fun and party with them and never give them a relationship or a marriage. This is also part of the lifeline guys like Tom and I extend to guys like you as hey maybe with your current girl you didn't win the lottery and she will betray you 5-8 years down the line brutally like Night Time Pimp's girl or much sooner either outright breaking up with you out of the blue when you are madly in love or breaking up with you down the line and later you learn through friends or the girl herself that she'd been cheating on you all along.

Living Leykis 101 helps all men who follow it avoid this pain entirely and more importantly all the wasted years and opportunties with other women missed.

I'll end this part by saying its not necessarily a bad thing you are doing now humanist being loving and loyal with one girl who you think is the same as you in her mindset towards you as you are towards her but I myself can't live that life you are living any longer as I view it to be too dangerous a gamble after all that I now know.

You are so young too it pains me to read that you and any guy your age is tied down to a single girlfriend even if its completely willing but again it is your life and your gamble my friend.

Good luck with it.

"I think of many various people through my life: teachers, professors, bosses, co-workers, friends, family, etc. Some are divorced, but many are still together, many of them for decades (null if consider marriages formed decades ago are no longer possible today). I have heard/known of many professors/teachers and their wives/family, still together and seem to be going well,"

Well I'm sure you know this already but many older seemingly happy couples many times aren't.

That or they have an open marriage or one of them tolerates a continued affair so long as their marriage can continue to exist because its all that they've got.

They put up the smiling face to keep up appearances for the public, family and friends but inside they are living quiet lives of desperation.

Neither you nor I though can assume either the positive or cynical view as being true of these particular people but we do have to take into account that what both of us believe about them has an equal probability of being true.

"although all I have is short meeting with their wives at college events and professors digressing into humorous stories, I like to think it is a sign of things going well if they are attending events and able to still interact."

And sometimes social status and standing is more important to people than having a happy relationship/marriage.

Just look at Bill and Hilary Clinton as an example.

Thats a political marriage if I've ever seen one.

I fully believe the love died in that marriage years ago and they stay together for power and social standing similar to Pat and Richard Nixon in that regard.

"Within my family, most of my older relatives are still married, including my parents (relative happiness is debatable)."

Indeed you see what I'm getting at.

"There is also one example of a girl with a very AFC guy (he is the most AFC guy I know sadly), when I learned about that couple, I'm surprised they are still together and that she didn't screwed him over in many different ways (academically, financially, prioritively, etc). Poor guy to be honest, eventually she will leave him. The girl have pretty good character to stay loyal to him this long and not taking advantage of him, if he only can be convinced to not keep doing all the pedestaling **** and insecurities he keeps doing. Then there are others I know from various ways."

Well and there is also the wild card you may not of taken into account and that is the girl and guy may both be AFC's. Check out some of Fela Kuti's topics if you haven't yet and read about him and his girlfriend. Total co-dependent relationship that should've ended eons ago but they cling to eachother for fear they will not get anyone else. There are some very hot women out there with even less self esteem than the most AFC poster any of us can think of on this site in its history.

This brings up another point that I thought of before and some of the guys you may see in what appears to be great relationships may of just landed themselves a beautiful female AFC with no self esteem or desire to go out there and get what she really believes she deserves in a man.

You never really know in truth...

"Basically, around me, I have examples of continuing success instead of the world Str8up describes. If my observations and experiences point at one direction, my instinct that while I should question it if it is reality, currently, the only reason to not listen is fear that I will end up wrong and paying painful price."

I can understand you completely and fortunately for you, you have the buffer in all of us telling you many things beforehand so even if the worst happens to you, in a way you will be prepared for it.

Currently you are apparently a product of decent life experiences from what I have read but you could just as easily end up like the married guy I gave an example of.

Well ok maybe not him I think you are smarter than that but well...

Night Time Pimp, now that is a guy you actually could end up like and then your world view will likely shift to mine and Str8up's.

Or you could take what I consider to be the creepy overly optimistic trauma based mindset and just chalk up the bad experience to one bad apple of a woman.

It will be interesting to see what happens in your future humanist and don't worry none of us will mock you or try and get one over on you should the worst happen.

We are a support and education center of a forum I think.

Not something petty like most forums that are all about making fun of people for mistakes they make or whatever.

And anyway to conclude perhaps the bad won't happen to you and you've met a fully compatible chick for you that will remain as such for as long as you want her.

Its good to know though that even if this is the case you can take into account our differing views as having validity to them even if you cannot currently embrace them yourself.

As for the second part of your post you should know that the post I made which you responded to in great detail was for your benefit to try and explain my and other's mindsets on here as clearly as possible to you so that you know where we are coming from. It was not intended really as a challenge to you or a calling you out type of thing. I have noticed you are all about taking in information so I provided it the best I could and indeed you noticed as you began by saying I did a good job explaining my thinking towards realism.

 

[TheHumanist]

Hmmm, I can see where you may of gotten offended over my Pausch comment but really I only meant to use him as an example.

In reality I think American culture has a creepy optimism about it for whenever things get really bad or something really bad happens.

You can see this kind of unrelenting optimism in certain 3rd world nations as well and I've come to find it to be creepy and people denying reality rather than the view the optimists take of it such as well they're just making the best of it.

Why people do this I'm guessing is because of an emotional overload, in other words it must be a coping mechanism of some sort which I suppose is understandable under the harshest of circumstances but is it a normal thing and way humans are always naturally supposed to respond to very horrible things?

I really don't think so.

I think its a kind of trance escapism, a trauma based optimism and for that I don't find it to be inspiring at all but saddening on a very deep level.

I didn't find "The Last Lecture" to be inspiring for this very reason.

I viewed Mr. Pausch's optimism as trauma based which it was considering the fact that he was going to die soon and he knew it.

Everyone who wants to get inspired by that is welcome to it of course but I viewed it in a different light and could only feel sad for the man.

"what would be the realist reaction to facing death?"

Doing whatever you can to fight it tooth and nail and not getting extra optimistic just because you have a very potentially fatal condition.

I watched my dad fight melanoma skin cancer and lose to it as did I watch his best friend not very much later fight mesothelioma cancer and lose to that.

Neither of these men got overly optimistic about living life to the fullest or any of this other stuff, there was no one armed pushups or pep talks to me and others, what there was, was a lot of somberness, a lot of fighting when the doctors would tell them they may have a chance with this or that treatment, some relaxation days with laughs and jokes about unrelated things to ease the tension but definitely there was none of the pie in the sky optimism seen in the Last Lecture or other instances I've seen it on display in American society and 3rd world nations at totally unappropriate times for it.

In short my dad and his best friend faced death with I guess a clear mind.

They very well knew they'd likely die but it didn't traumatize either man into going into full stop optimism mode to cope.

That's all I'm saying.

They were traumatized at first of course upon getting the news of their cancers but their minds quickly recovered and went into realism mode.

Randy Pausch sadly may of remained in mental trauma over this until his death.

hmm.. In light of your experience with your father and best friend, I can see why you see him as denying reality. Your dad and your best friend did face their reality hard and sadly that all they can do.

However, FYI and in Randy's Defense, Randy did done all he could to fight the cancer. He openly knew he was going to die and look into every experimental and conventional treatment that can at least buy some time. He never thought that some miracle will save him, he spent his time building "safety nets." The very reason why he lived far longer than the 6 month diagnosis the lecture gave was one of the treatments did "triple" his lift expectancy. He did admit that he cried everyday and thinks constantly about what he is about to lose. Randy never denied reality. He just tried to play his hand as best as he could, as he said it.

As for his lecture, I guess to you it did look like he was in denial, after all if he knew he was dying, why do push ups and pep talks. The push up is for show and the pep talk is not for the students, it is for his kids to one day watch so they can get a better idea of who he was. I hope the kids will get a similar message as you got from your father and not "he went insane." He actually admit to that at the end of the lecture and in subsequent question in interviews and from his friends, he thought of originally that he was thinking about making a home video. However, he felt that it wouldn't give a strong enough effect and Randy figured it wouldn't hurt to speak to live audience rather than in the bedroom and a camcorder. He was one of best Computer Science Lecturers around, he knew his best was on stage.

"FYI, if you are misreading, I didn't said I have no experience. "

If you read my quote that you seem to of given an angry response to I say "not having much experience with women by your own admission".

I never implied or even said you had no experience.

I basically repeated exactly what you have said about yourself.

Just making sure.

 

[TheHumanist]

"However, in my experiences and observations things are different. My current girl treats me like a king and yet thus far very patient in my busy life. She is basically great company who loves to tag along on my antics along with... other fun stuff... Those I look to as examples go do many good things and doesn't seem to be getting screwed over."

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128517

Read Night Time Pimp's two posts in his thread on page 1 and page 2 and see if that describes your girl.

The good things he says I mean.

.
.
.

Living Leykis 101 helps all men who follow it avoid this pain entirely and more importantly all the wasted years and opportunties with other women missed.

I'll end this part by saying its not necessarily a bad thing you are doing now humanist being loving and loyal with one girl who you think is the same as you in her mindset towards you as you are towards her but I myself can't live that life you are living any longer as I view it to be too dangerous a gamble after all that I now know.

You are so young too it pains me to read that you and any guy your age is tied down to a single girlfriend even if its completely willing but again it is your life and your gamble my friend.

Good luck with it.

I guess in your assessment, I will need it. I’m sorry. You do offer the safest bet. The problem is as you noticed, I can’t swallow it without turning jaded and cynical. I’m Sorry, currently, I just can’t swallow that. I guess I need to get my hand burned, maybe even a couple of times before I can be truly open to it. Though obviously I do not wish so. Whenever it comes, you’ll see a new thread by me (maybe I’ll finally be old enough to be allowed to write in the MM forum).

"although all I have is short meeting with their wives at college events and professors digressing into humorous stories, I like to think it is a sign of things going well if they are attending events and able to still interact."

And sometimes social status and standing is more important to people than having a happy relationship/marriage.

Just look at Bill and Hilary Clinton as an example.

Thats a political marriage if I've ever seen one.

I fully believe the love died in that marriage years ago and they stay together for power and social standing similar to Pat and Richard Nixon in that regard.


"Within my family, most of my older relatives are still married, including my parents (relative happiness is debatable)."

Indeed you see what I'm getting at.

"There is also one example of a girl with a very AFC guy (he is the most AFC guy I know sadly), when I learned about that couple, I'm surprised they are still together and that she didn't screwed him over in many different ways (academically, financially, prioritively, etc). Poor guy to be honest, eventually she will leave him. The girl have pretty good character to stay loyal to him this long and not taking advantage of him, if he only can be convinced to not keep doing all the pedestaling **** and insecurities he keeps doing. Then there are others I know from various ways."

Well and there is also the wild card you may not of taken into account and that is the girl and guy may both be AFC's. Check out some of Fela Kuti's topics if you haven't yet and read about him and his girlfriend. Total co-dependent relationship that should've ended eons ago but they cling to eachother for fear they will not get anyone else. There are some very hot women out there with even less self esteem than the most AFC poster any of us can think of on this site in its history.

This brings up another point that I thought of before and some of the guys you may see in what appears to be great relationships may of just landed themselves a beautiful female AFC with no self esteem or desire to go out there and get what she really believes she deserves in a man.

You never really know in truth...

I missed out on a big detail, when I was saying digress, I was trying to type they would digress to stories in the middle of class about their wives. Keeping up appearances is one thing, sharing open positive stories with recent travels, adventures, and trips with their wives is another. Kinda bring a theory with academia where many times their wives are usually professors as well and so on, they choose better wives and wives strive to be better. In response about the AFC female not to bring race into this, but I also have independently observe that it always seem that Asians couples last longer and hold on longer. Perhaps it is culture and the American women thing especially since they cannot be satisfied ever (do no wrong, but the good is just not enough it seem to be), but we can’t delve into that can we? Either way, you're right we can never know for sure. Just our opinions.

"Basically, around me, I have examples of continuing success instead of the world Str8up describes. If my observations and experiences point at one direction, my instinct that while I should question it if it is reality, currently, the only reason to not listen is fear that I will end up wrong and paying painful price."

I can understand you completely and fortunately for you, you have the buffer in all of us telling you many things beforehand so even if the worst happens to you, in a way you will be prepared for it.

Currently you are apparently a product of decent life experiences from what I have read but you could just as easily end up like the married guy I gave an example of.

Well ok maybe not him I think you are smarter than that but well...

Night Time Pimp, now that is a guy you actually could end up like and then your world view will likely shift to mine and Str8up's.

Or you could take what I consider to be the creepy overly optimistic trauma based mindset and just chalk up the bad experience to one bad apple of a woman.

It will be interesting to see what happens in your future humanist and don't worry none of us will mock you or try and get one over on you should the worst happen.

We are a support and education center of a forum I think.

Not something petty like most forums that are all about making fun of people for mistakes they make or whatever.

And anyway to conclude perhaps the bad won't happen to you and you've met a fully compatible chick for you that will remain as such for as long as you want her.

Its good to know though that even if this is the case you can take into account our differing views as having validity to them even if you cannot currently embrace them yourself.

As for the second part of your post you should know that the post I made which you responded to in great detail was for your benefit to try and explain my and other's mindsets on here as clearly as possible to you so that you know where we are coming from. It was not intended really as a challenge to you or a calling you out type of thing. I have noticed you are all about taking in information so I provided it the best I could and indeed you noticed as you began by saying I did a good job explaining my thinking towards realism.

As I said above, if the time comes and it does end like that (hopefully if it does end, it end on a better note, like geography or something like that). You’ll see my thread. However, right now the more “positive” posters of now and then like Joekerr, Interceptor, Victory Unlimited, and will be the one I’ll adapt. You are the one who noticed there seems to be a couple of different SoSuave camps of thoughts, I don't think only one have to be right even if the camp's ideology excludes others being possible right(that's for a later idea I thought). At least by being here, I’ll be (somewhat) ready for whatever life may bring to me. For all I know, I might be the one to take the hammer and do that to her 5-8 years from now. For now, I'll just go by one day at a time.

 

[Drum&Bass]

I love MABTW.com I've been following it for awhile now. He was also on Dr. Phil, Dick Masterson is a genius. Im pretty surprised to find there are guys that don't believe in what Masterson says.

 

[rapidfire]

haha he is funny but clearly a salesman. he has a girlfriend.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Why would he not have a girlfriend?

The guy does not hate women at all. He likes women, he just does not respect them. There is a difference.

 

[penkitten]

Why would he not have a girlfriend?

The guy does not hate women at all. He likes women, he just does not respect them. There is a difference.

i would like to think he speaks about women in general and not specifically as a whole.
for example: i am not all women therefore i can not be held responsible for all women ... however... there are alot of women that i don't care for or respect either.

i just wanted to throw that in there. sometimes as we read or view things on the web, we tend to forget that people still generalize other groups of people.

do i think men are better than women? no
do i think women are better than men? no
can i see how someone would generalize one or the other to make valid points? yes.

 

[( . )( . )]

Men are just as much to blame for the current situation as woman are.

Men are entirely to blame for the current situation.

You wouldnt blame a child hopped up on red fizzy drink and lollies who's running around pissing everyone off and pulling the dogs tail would you?, you'd blame it on the silly fvck who let it happen.

 

[Perfect10]

This guys incredible!
Well If you'd hit the treadmill a little more, you'd be in the front!

OH SNAP-DIGGITY she got OWNED! Hilarious!