Men are responsible for women's immorality

taiyuu_otoko

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you guys are confusing morality and forced commitment. People commit because they either share a long term unwavering goal, or they don't have better options.

In the past, they most people didn't have better options because whatever "morality" ruled the day precluded them from seeking better options. The specific kind of morality is irrelevant. All that is relevant is that they were externally opposed by church and state.

Recently, in the last fifty years or so, the "morality", or externally applied non-legal rules, have become less and less effective.

As the "morals" contained by society become less effective in keeping your woman faithful, you can either

1) make staying with you more compelling than checking out your competition

or

2) whine endlessly on the internet about the breakdown of society and morals and how you women aren't as obedient as they were back in the day, or how obedient you wish they were.

Those of you who think women will ALWAYS check out the competition aren't compelling enough to begin with. Look in the mirror.

Think of men as magnets. The stronger your magnetic force, the stronger the bond your woman will feel towards you. When you slack off and get lazy, weak, she will naturally start to feel the magnetic pull of other men. The only way to keep this from happening is to always be the strongest magnet around.

all whining about lack of morals is disguised whining about society not doing your job of attracting and keeping a woman for you.
 

SXS

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2) whine endlessly on the internet about the breakdown of society and morals and how you women aren't as obedient as they were back in the day, or how obedient you wish they were.
It seems like many already made their choice, ha, ha.
 

Interceptor

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I dont agree with the concept that Men, as in ALL Men, are "RESPONSIBLE" for women's behavior and choices and decisions.
Its simply not possible.

People make their own choices. Whether conscious, or unconscious.
Please dont give women a "Get out of jail FREE" card by assuming women, as in ALL , women are brainless fools who do everything they are told.


Men, by and large, do not go out and force women to be 'Immoral'.
To BLAME men, for (ALL, as you're stating it...) women's choices is not based in logic.

We are all responsible for what we choose and where we end up.
We may often feel disempowered, but the responsibilty and decision making is always in our hands.

I agree with a lot of what you said though.
 

Trader

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Interceptor said:
People make their own choices. Whether conscious, or unconscious. Please dont give women a "Get out of jail FREE" card by assuming women, as in ALL , women are brainless fools who do everything they are told.
Girls make their own choices - I agree. But girls make their own choices, by in large, based on the opinions of others.

That's why it's so amusing to us guys, that fame is the ultimate DHV (demonstrating high value) method. If you are famous, and thus society 'approves' of you, then the girl just listens to society and thus automatically gives you high value.

We laugh when guys joke: 'If you want girls, just join a band (cause you get fame).'

We just shake our heads in disbelief, when we are with a hot girl, and then all of a sudden girls who had no interest in us, start giving indicators of interest. 'Well if that hot girl is good enough for him, then he must be good enough for us!' is the thought process of those girls.

We are confused when fat girls wear low-rise jeans just because it's the trend (everyone else is doing it), even though the look is horrible on them.

Interceptor said:
Men, by and large, do not go out and force women to be 'Immoral'.
To BLAME men, for (ALL, as you're stating it...) women's choices is not based in logic.
Men lead, girls follow. We all agree on that. If a man fails to lead well, and thus the girl is led astray by other forces, did he *force* her to be led astray? No, but he failed to live up to his role of the leader, and thus he is somewhat responsible.

To use an NBA analogy, if you are the leader (the man) of your team, like Kobe, MJ, Lebron, you get all the glory if you win.

But you also get all the blame if you lose, even if it was your teammate, the role player (the girl) that played poorly in that game. Because you as the leader, you should have *led* better. You should have motivated your teammates better, or you should have played an even better game to make up for their 0 for 8 shooting night.

No superstar in the press conference would ever say: 'We lost because role player A couldn't knock down the 3.' Always, without exception, the superstar takes it on his shoulders and says: 'We lost, it's all on me. We will come back strong in game 3.'
 

ketostix

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I believe that SOME men and ALL immoral women are responsible for women's immoratility. Think of the 80/20 rule. 80 percent of women only care what 20% of men think.
 

Lioric

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Girls make their own choices - I agree. But girls make their own choices, by in large, based on the opinions of others.

That's why it's so amusing to us guys, that fame is the ultimate DHV (demonstrating high value) method. If you are famous, and thus society 'approves' of you, then the girl just listens to society and thus automatically gives you high value.

We laugh when guys joke: 'If you want girls, just join a band (cause you get fame).'

We just shake our heads in disbelief, when we are with a hot girl, and then all of a sudden girls who had no interest in us, start giving indicators of interest. 'Well if that hot girl is good enough for him, then he must be good enough for us!' is the thought process of those girls.

We are confused when fat girls wear low-rise jeans just because it's the trend (everyone else is doing it), even though the look is horrible on them.
I tried to relate to the 'deep' correlation you tried to prove here, but I lost it... You must make peace with the following: As incredible as it may sound, there are thinking independent, intellectual women out there, who don't need a man to function and take rational decisions by themselves. Agreed, that women demand support from men, get affected by the society's norms, listen to their peers before taking action and so forth... But what about us?! Do we not do that all the time? What are you doing here spending valuable time trying to get your ideas approved by fellow men? Do you take your decisions all by yourself because you are a self-proclaimed alpha?! Do you often not seek approval or attention from a lover or an authority figure?

I am not saying what you suggest here is wrong. It's just not entirely correct and misses the point. You are saying nothing new, when you say "people make their own choices, by and large, based on the opinions of others", but you are replacing "people" with "girls" which is not warranted...

Not every man is a leader. It's a rare quality. Nature is designed to have betas around, otherwise alphas wouldn't function.

Equivalently, proposing that all the immorality stemming from women is due to men is not only sexist, but also stupid. It supposes that all decisions of women are guided and ultimately produced by men, and that they cannot take a decision by themselves and therefore - we are to blame when a woman makes a mistake! Voila... It feels like the triumph of a theorem, pity only in the "planet of the apes"...
 

Trader

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Lioric said:
I tried to relate to the 'deep' correlation you tried to prove here, but I lost it... You must make peace with the following: As incredible as it may sound, there are thinking independent, intellectual women out there, who don't NEED a man to function and take rational decisions by themselves.
Of course. There are no absolutes. Life is full of shades of grey. I know a girl who is very independent (compared to other girls at least) - she thinks much like a man does. Too bad she also looks like a man. Anyways, MOST girls by in large just follow the crowd.

My experience is with girls who are more feminine, since those are the ones I am attracted to. And they are the ones who are dependent, interested in gossip, making others jealous, etc.

Lioric said:
Of course, women demand support from men, get affected by the society's norms, listen to their peers before taking action and so forth... But what about us?! Do we not do that all the time?
I would hope less and less, as we become more and more of a man, we are the ones that end up calling the shots, not society. Of course we *consider* what our *peers* say, but in the end, we decide on our own, instead of blindly accepting their advice.

Lioric said:
What are you seeking here spending valuable time trying to get your ideas approved by fellow men?
The quote in my original post - I had read a long time ago. And it never really quite sunk in until recently due to some personal events in my life. This is exciting for me to share this. It's like a kid who had an 'a ha' moment and is running around.

I remember first reading Pook's post about: 'You are the prize to be won.' To you that was patently obvious, but at the time, it was a huge revelation to me, and I was excited about that just the same.

Lioric said:
Do you take your decisions all by yourself because you are a self-proclaimed alpha?! Do you often not seek approval or attention from a lover or an authority figure?
Less and less approval seeking. Though I still got so much more room to grow as a man.


Lioric said:
I am not saying what you propose is wrong. It's just not entirely correct and misses the point. You are saying nothing new, when you say "PEOPLE make their own choices, by and large, based on the opinions of others", but you are replacing "people" with "girls"... which is wrong. Not every man is a leader. It's a rare quality. Nature is designed to have betas around, otherwise alphas simply wouldn't function.
Not every man can lead other men - not every man can be the Alpha Male.

But EVERY man is called to at least be the leader of his household, to lead the girl.

Lioric said:
Equivalently, proposing that all the immorality stemming from women is due to men is not only sexist, but also stupid. It supposes that all decisions of women are guided and ultimately produced by men, and that they cannot take a decision by themselves and therefore - we are to blame when a woman makes a mistake! Voila... It feels like the triumph of a theorem, pity only "in the planet of the apes"..
Of course there are shades of grey in life. There are no absolutes. Would ALL immorality stop if men manned up? Not 100%. My simple point is this; 'If men all stepped up and became moral, the morals of women would improve drastically.' There is a cause and effect here.

Simple point. Alas, common sense is not so common - just wander over to the 'All women are devilish wh0res' thread which is ridiculously long, yet no one ever tells others to man up and lead women by example.
 

Señor Fingers

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Men are only responsible for the social CONSTRUCT that facilitates shady behavior for women. Essentially we have been domesticated by women and sex - ironically having so much of it shoved in our faces has also castrated us!

Basically, once a man signs his balls away just to get a piece of nookie its curtains for his life. Once 90% of men start doing this, well you already see how well this is working out :down:

People will only measure up to the moral yardstick thats put out there. If not enough guys have standards, and are happy just to have a penis holster - what incentive do women really have? They've already matched all the criteria without doing anything! :crazy:
 

Luthor Rex

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ketostix said:
I believe that SOME men and ALL immoral women are responsible for women's immoratility. Think of the 80/20 rule. 80 percent of women only care what 20% of men think.
You're right.

I've long noticed that women only "see" the top 20% of men. The "bottom" 80% of men are invisible to women.
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

azanon

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Men are responsible for women's immorality

No we're not. It doesn't happen often, but I read your entire original post and found nothing about it I agree with.

IMO, read his post, think exactly the opposite, and you'll be right on point.
 

Interceptor

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Of course. There are no absolutes. Life is full of shades of grey
Then I believe a retraction of your premise is in order.

You're getting at some fundamental things here that some of us agree on, but the way it is getting across is not helpful unfortunately.
Im looking forward to your elaboration though.
 

Jitterbug

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I believe men are responsible to some extent, just not *solely* responsible, as modern men accommodate too much of women's sh!tty behaviours.
 
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