Meet your new currency - Amero

speakeasy

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Brazil? Have you seen how much crime and mayhem there is in Brazil? What their disparity between the rich and poor is? The frequent shootouts between Brazilian police and gangs controlling favelas? The murder rate? How many get kidnapped?

Brazil seems is a cultural vibrant and interesting country with drop dead fine women and I hope to visit there soon, but one would have to be a fool to gloss over the immense problems there. I'd need a helluva lot of convincing before I believe Brazil is a safe haven or anymore stable than a western country.
 

speakeasy

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fuzzx said:
Given the opportunity, I would live in Brazil WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before I would live in the US. (10 x safer)
Brazil is 10x safer than the U.S.? Lol...I would love to see some crime stats to back that claim.
 

SomethingClever

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This is so Zeitgeist. The world's gonna end.
 

Truman181

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SomethingClever said:
This is so Zeitgeist. The world's gonna end.
Check out the news sometime if you want to see things that are "so Zeitgeist".
 

Truman181

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I watched the Debate last night

And there is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama! I'm not saying I'm voting for McCain but I am definitely NOT voting for Obama.

What was the deal breaker?

He wants the government to FINE people who don't get health insurance for their children! DAMN! Now we all know that people SHOULD have health insurance (especially kids) but come on! The government has NO RIGHT telling us how run our lives, our finances, or our family! What happened to Democracy??? This isn't even America anymore! What's next under Obama's Health Care plan? Fine us if we smoke? Fine us if we go out drinking? The Bill of Rights is under attack from Republicans and Democrats alike! HELP!
 

speakeasy

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Truman181 said:
I watched the Debate last night

And there is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama! I'm not saying I'm voting for McCain but I am definitely NOT voting for Obama.

What was the deal breaker?

He wants the government to FINE people who don't get health insurance for their children! DAMN! Now we all know that people SHOULD have health insurance (especially kids) but come on! The government has NO RIGHT telling us how run our lives, our finances, or our family! What happened to Democracy??? This isn't even America anymore! What's next under Obama's Health Care plan? Fine us if we smoke? Fine us if we go out drinking? The Bill of Rights is under attack from Republicans and Democrats alike! HELP!
If you health care is available for your kid for free and you don't get it and then your kid gets sick and dies, isn't that criminal negligence on the part of the parent? Why is Obama's statement so controversial?
 

Truman181

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What if my kid is completely healthy for his entire life and he only needs to go to the doctor once per year and I'd rather pay for it out of my pocket?

BUT instead, the government says "do it our way, or else"

Where does the government control end?

What if they start passing out uniforms for us to wear "to protect us from terrorists" and anyone who doesn't wear (or make their kids wear them) is guilty of criminal neglect?

You let them take one of our rights away, all of our rights are subject to change.

Take the 2nd amendment. Everyone always says how much safer society would be if there were no guns. Just because you may (or may not) disagree with the right (or need) to bare arms doesn't mean you should agree with the government taking away our freedom. If the 2nd amendment is taken away (because it's a popular policy that many agree with) then all of our freedoms can be lost just as easily. What happens when they take away the 1st amendment? People would have a sh1t fit because that's a popular amendment.

Wasn't it Patrick Henry who said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it"?

Once the Government has a foothold in our personal lives and financial freedom, it won't let go and it won't be long before they enforce on us policies that YOU don't agree with speakeasy.
 

speakeasy

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^^I'd have to see all the policy details on that. I'm sure it's got to be more nuanced than that.
 

Truman181

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Man you're being dismissive. I can't have a mature discussion with you if you're going to do that.

Fact is this country was FOUNDED on freedom. Every example of "Government knows best for everyone" pisses on that notion.
 

Truman181

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He's not being dismissive, all he's asking is for hard facts, not some bull**** some random person on the internet is spewing.
Calm down little man. No need for personal attacks.

I'm not claiming hard facts about anything. I was debating with him with some rhetorical questions about government control versus civil liberty.
It bothers me that the government is stepping into our personal lives. Yes the Republicans are just as guilty in MANY situations.

As to my complaints about John McCain...well listen I hate the fact that he is in favor of the war. The war sucks. It was a mistake. (I have to throw in the disclaimer that I support the troops)

And here, I'll throw you a bone. Here's what I like about Obama: I think that he has better ideas about fixing the economy than McCain
 

speakeasy

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Truman181 said:
Man you're being dismissive. I can't have a mature discussion with you if you're going to do that.

Fact is this country was FOUNDED on freedom. Every example of "Government knows best for everyone" pisses on that notion.
There's a difference betweeen freedom and laissez faire government. I mean anarchy is freedom as well, but that doesn't always mean you'll have a good outcome. Scandinavian countries don't have as much economic freedom as we do, but in the end, I don't think any of them are complaining about it because they have less gap between rich and poor, almost no poverty and there's no such thing as people dying because they can't afford health care. And yet they still have great cultural freedom and freedom of ideas. I'm not saying I want to turn the US into Scandinavian socialism but I'm just saying that Scandinavia is an example that people can be free and still have a regulated economy. Freedom and laissez faire arne't the same thing necessarily. We had less regulation back when there was slavery, women couldn't vote and kids were working 12 hours a day in factories, but I wouldn't say people were more free.
 

Truman181

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speakeasy said:
There's a difference betweeen freedom and laissez faire government. I mean anarchy is freedom as well, but that doesn't always mean you'll have a good outcome. Scandinavian countries don't have as much economic freedom as we do, but in the end, I don't think any of them are complaining about it because they have less gap between rich and poor, almost no poverty and there's no such thing as people dying because they can't afford health care. And yet they still have great cultural freedom and freedom of ideas. I'm not saying I want to turn the US into Scandinavian socialism but I'm just saying that Scandinavia is an example that people can be free and still have a regulated economy. Freedom and laissez faire arne't the same thing necessarily. We had less regulation back when there was slavery, women couldn't vote and kids were working 12 hours a day in factories, but I wouldn't say people were more free.
Props man, very mature response. I will think that over.


Edit to respond to Crimsonking (10 post limit)

lol you pushed my buttons with your tone.

Maybe I do have a problem with public education...there's always home schooling. Either way it should be my choice and not that of the government.

Listen, it may seem a little point to you but it's obviously a big point for me. If you think it's ridiculous, then don't respond. I was addressing speakeasy and you jumped into the debate. If you disagree with me, fine. That is your right just as I have a right to my own opinion.

Alright, I'm out. Damn 10 post rule
 

Truman181

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fuzzx said:
Also no one has taken away our right to bear arms (you can own a gun in Canada if you take the proper courses and obtain special licensing)... we just collectively agree that society is a much safer place without easy access to fire arms (and it is).
Forgive my ignorance of Canadian History. I have no idea what principles your country was founded on.

But here in the US, our country was founded on the idea of freedom. Freedom of speech. Freedom to assemble. More freedoms than I care to list. But yes the freedom to have guns is in there.

My problem is when our citizens start conceding some of our rights to the government such as the right to own guns, all of our other freedoms become negotiable as well.

Now proponents of gun control say it saves lives. Yet that is the same justification for eroding our liberties that GW BUSH used after 9-11 with the Patriot Act and subsequent legislation.

Sure gun control may save some lives. It would reduce the number of school shootings in this country. It would reduce crime. Who knows, it might even prevent another 9-11. To that argument I say what about all of the millions of lives that were lost over the past 200+ years to preserve freedom? Would stopping a few school shootings or stopping another 9-11 be worth giving up what we fought so hard to have and maintain?

I'm sure I've stirred up the hornets nest this time. :yes: I don't feel like arguing so I won't be posting in this thread again. Just some food for thought gentlemen.
 

Aragon034

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Truman181 said:
Forgive my ignorance of Canadian History. I have no idea what principles your country was founded on.

But here in the US, our country was founded on the idea of freedom. Freedom of speech. Freedom to assemble. More freedoms than I care to list. But yes the freedom to have guns is in there.

My problem is when our citizens start conceding some of our rights to the government such as the right to own guns, all of our other freedoms become negotiable as well.

Now proponents of gun control say it saves lives. Yet that is the same justification for eroding our liberties that GW BUSH used after 9-11 with the Patriot Act and subsequent legislation.

Sure gun control may save some lives. It would reduce the number of school shootings in this country. It would reduce crime. Who knows, it might even prevent another 9-11. To that argument I say what about all of the millions of lives that were lost over the past 200+ years to preserve freedom? Would stopping a few school shootings or stopping another 9-11 be worth giving up what we fought so hard to have and maintain?

I'm sure I've stirred up the hornets nest this time. :yes: I don't feel like arguing so I won't be posting in this thread again. Just some food for thought gentlemen.
This hits close to home. My home was just robbed last week and attempted to be robbed again today. (i lost about 600$ worth of tools, and almost lost my beast of a snow blower)

I just added serious locks and chains over the last few days and ironically, they couldn't take my snow blower as a cheap little brass lock didn't let the door open.

The cops aren't going to do anything, so i've ordered CCTV cameras and chained up all the things of value in my backyard

My brother has a legal firearm (we go hunting) and i've got a paintball gun as well as airsoft guns. But it's useless. If i catch one of these bastards trying to take something, i can't do JACK to him. All i can do is call 911 and wait for the cops.

Sure, he can take my goddamn power saw and get off scot free, but if i fill his ass with birdshot, I GET SUED AND I PROBABLY LOSE EVERYTHING.

I live in Canada and the laws here are different than in the US, but i'm sure this kind of thing happens all over.
 

Son Goten

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A-Unit said:
Truman scratched the surface, and very cogently I may add.

Whether you label my words as conspiratorial or not, does not matter to me. What I was speaking on was fact.

Fact: The IRS gained heavy new powers that enable clandestine operation at catching tax evaders, that requires no oversight by the FBI.

Fact: The government CAN and WILL bail out foreign governments and enterprises, as they had held sinking bonds and dollars and received a lot of pressure to pass this latest bill. (Check how badly the market dropped monday around the world last week).

Fact: A war on terror is never won, because in the grand scope of world politicals, anyone who threatens your ideas is a "threat" and inflicts terror.

Fact: It was Wall Street phds, mbas, and salesmen that screwed up as well as Government leaders and regulators, of both parties, and now they want to pass the bill onto us, while they retain cushy pensions, healthcare benies, and receive fat golden parachutes. The % drop in value that is experienced by those who messed up and by those who are expected to pay is a huge difference.

Lastly, anyone on the fence about 9-11 should watch this youtube video and read up on William "Bill" Cooper, who was oddly killed November 5, 2001, by Federal Law Enforcement officials outside of his home. Bill was a private recluse who was also a double amputee. It was a known fact he carried and housed weapons. He was a very private, always suspicious that the government was "onto him." He served in the Air Force and Navy for nearly 2 decades.

He wrote "Behold a Pale Horse", which is most definately a work of conspiracy literature, but written so accurately, it's almost hard to throw aside or believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy4EyBstOsA

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/william-bill-cooper-predicted-911-june-2001/3008366214

For those who don't finish the video, I'll summarize what Bill says on his live program, aired in June of 2001. He hints that Osama Bin Laden will be blamed for a "Reichstag" event in the coming weeks or months, and that following such an event, the final blow will be to take away or diminish the supply of weapons in our hands.

He also mentioned it would be a notable location, such as the Capital building, which is akin to the Reichstag in Germany. He cautions people to wake up. Though Bill is a passionate man, he believed in "restoration of the constitution, not a revolution," constantly conveying the message that "we, the patriots, would not be the ones to fire the first shot."

Given that this man hinted at, what evidence is there left to believe? Had anyone heeded these words, who knows what the outcome would have been. I'm willing to bet those who found this video prior to 911 and then saw it unfold are very changed people.
That reminds me. Barry Jennings was a key witness to Building 7 and was also oddly killed days before his testimony would be whitewashed by the BBC. I don't know if you've watched Fabled Enemies online, but that's where they show his testimony. I was SHOCKED to find out that he was dead! But at the same time, I had a feeling it was a bunch of feds that got him.
 
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