Maybe a helpful post for minorities - I know it helped me

[FreeStyleZ]

Hi Duffdog, please do not make this thread into a heated discussion about "why certain guys are into WW." There are many complicated factors, but one reason for it is simply numbers: unless a minority guy is in the inner city, there are far more white girls in his social circle (school, college, clubs, etc.) or work environment (especially if he is a professional).

Bingo, for me the reason was pretty much that white girls made up the majority of the venues I would go to. I went to college with a school that was 96% white and since culturally I had a lot more in common in a general sense than black guys, I was typically trying to do my game in white venues because that's just where I happened to be most of the time. I was just really oblivious because I thought everything would be equal as long as I had game, and it wasn't until I started getting more control over where I gamed at did I come to realize just how much race as affecting my results.

I don't even prefer white girls really, I guess if I had to name a preference it's for latina girls, but it just was that the venues I was gaming in had mostly white girls so I just worked on my game there.

I appreciate the post. You talked about gaming and getting much better results in other countries. It's pretty well known that European (and to a lesser extent, South American) women are MUCH more open to men of color. When you mention that you were more successful by changing where you played the game, are you talking about Europe?

Germany, Finland, Australia, and Mexico are easier for minorities I've found. I haven't gotten the chance yet to really explore Europe as much as I want but since I love traveling I will be soon.

In some of those places I've had multiple girlfriends at a time whereas if I were gaming in my predominately white school with the same personality, same game, I'd probably have to go out hardcore every night just to pull a few lays here and there. Most lays that I did get in college were pretty much through social circle type game. If I had to go into some of those parties cold without knowing anyone and pull just from cold approach game, it could be done but lord if it didn't feel like the trenches.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

Yes its true some girls just don't like ethnic guys. But what can you do? Moan and complain or just keep doing your thing. Some of the "rejections" you may have received from white chicks might just have been your game.

About a year ago, I really thought the color of my skin and my race was preventing me from really achieving my potential. Its just bull**** in your head man. I've experienced enough that I can say race is a small issue in someones over all game. Unless their legit-ley stuck and can't get over the mental block of their race/height.

This really entirely misses the point of my post. I've been with many many white girls, that's for the most part where most of my lays come from, the point is that there DOES exist a difference in the results you will get that IS out of your control.

Even if for example a black dude with sick game can pull some arbitrary #.. let's say 50% of white girls he approaches, well if he can pull 80% of black girls he approaches using the same exact game, well that's something that's worth at least being aware of... because at the newbie level the #s may be more like 0% for a minority gaming white girls while he's learning, but may be 10% of girls in a different market.

At least being cognizant of this issue can be very helpful... who knows what some people will do with it, some may decide they want to get easier results in their own market, some may just keep doing what they're doing, who knows.. but that's a personal decision. The point of my post was that I was at one point NOT aware of this and thought my game would produce equal results in any venue because nothing mattered but my game. You really think your results gaming girls with the same afghan background as you will be equivalent to gaming white girls that you have big cultural differences with?

 

[FreeStyleZ]

I'd also like to mention that anyone who takes this post and then comes to the conclusion that their results suck because of their race so they become lazy or unmotivated has got it all wrong. Your results DO improve with the better your game gets, whatever your current pulling rate is with white girls CAN be higher the better your game gets, all i'm saying is that your %s will be that much better in different venues, and that's not random luck.

You really think Mystery could walk into a black hip hop club dressed how he does in his rocker venues using the exact same game and pull with the SAME consistency? NO. He probably would pull, I'm not even going to argue that one way or the other, but what i will say is that he will not pull with the same consistency.

But the notion that there's nothing you can do about your looks is very misleading i'd say. Because for example when I used to game white girls, there's going to be a big difference in my results gaming white girls in a more country type bar/venue than gaming white girls in a hip hop club. If you think that's obvious then that's all my point is, that with the same game, things outside your control can have a big influence on your results. And for some people out there they may be stuck in the same prior belief that I was which was that none of that matters all that matters is game in terms of the results i'm getting. So for example if my closing rate with asian chicks that were heavily cultured was a lot lower than my white friend whose gaming at frat parties.. well that meant his game must be better than mine because the results speak for themselves, but no, that's not true at all.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

lol wow, i haven't been like a consistent poster on this baord in like 3-4 years judging from my old posts but I did just come across a post that's related to the confusion I used to have. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58170

The main reason im posting this in the first place is because it's generally accepted that with females you have to be the aggressor to win them over, but in this first week ive noticed guys not trying.. just basically putting forth as much effort as me, and girls flocking to them... whereas i have to actually flirt and use c/f to get a girl to seem somewhat interested.. and its confusing as hell.

Ive already had black girls at my school make moves on me without me even saying one word to them, which is similar to the way white girls will make moves on some of my friends.. as someone else said. i dont have that luxury, but the problem enlies that my school is mostly white, so really I guess what it boils down to is whats the best way to attract the average white girl. I know that occasionally ill run into a white girl who just loves black guys and the whole urban image.. (i hooked up with a few last year), but those arent too plentiful either. Im gonna look into changing clothes somewhat... that's probably a big reason white girls wouldnt be interested because i dont look like their type.. they dont like the whole urban image.

Interesting to read that thread looking back on it now with more experience/knowledge/context to what was going on... and many more lays/girlfriends under my belt. I didn't even have the realization around the time of that post either which is a shame. I finished college and then just focused on improving my game as best as I could while ignoring the whole race/looks issue... getting much better game and some results and then came to realize it after traveling to different countries and noticing patterns in the results I was getting in various places with various girls.

 

[macallik]

Interesting post.

I agree that things may be a bit harder for your average black man to seduce your average white woman but I think it is based on perception mostly. To me, its akin to having a reputation that precedes you. As with every other race and gender, the (white) woman automatically (thinks she) knows where you are coming from and what you are about and determines whether or not they want in their life. As a seducer I think it is your duty to prove otherwise. For example, talking about 'likes' and things you have in common often bridge the gap between two people who thought they have nothing in common.

In my experiences at least, the difference between a white woman and a black woman is their level of interest. With a black woman, she is more likely to be innately interested in you than a white woman. It is not because you are black but because you are not white: binary oppositions at work. You are automatically positioned as "other' so it is your job to show likeness, create some sparks and then all systems go. That is why you have so much more success with black girls imo, the likeness is intrinsic

As for finding white women into black men, just go to a 'black' or 'urban' (are the two seen as synonymous nowadays or is it just me?) setting and take your pick. It's all about likeness imo. If the target is seen in an environment that is predominantly black than the likelihood of her being interested in black men increase exponentially. That is my hypothesis why successful black men are so into white women; as they go up the pay scale there are less and less similar-minded black women around...

However, I am assuming you don't want a 'white girl into black guys' or at least not the type that I have at times ran into, and if so, then you simply ask yourself: what is she into, am I into the same thing, and how do I convey this. Again, just because you are smart and educated doesn't mean that she is. Just because you are cultured and like X doesn't mean that she is as well. You could be talking about the effect on the stimulus plan on the working class and she really wants to talk about what happened on The Hills last night. This might not be as big of a chasm in people of similar ethnic/socio backgrounds but if they are different then it doesn't take much to be the last straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.

All in all, this post reminds me of posts about how tall guys have it easy or guys that are good looking got it made. It might be a bit more work but is it like your metaphor of starting a game down 50? Hardly. Knowing what you know about seduction which sounds like a lot to me, you should be constantly improving your ratio with white women.

What I want to know is as a succesful black man, working in the ________ field, are you ever approaching white women in the ________ field of work as well and are also getting rejected? For example, where I am from, if you are a black accountant, you have that connection and likeness with other accountants of all races and it supercedes the whole black and white, race thing. I am wondering if maybe you are an educated black man going for ditzy college girls or just girls who aren't similar to you irrespective of race? Or perhaps you under/overcompensate your ethnicity when you holler @ white girls? These are merely ideas running through my head, not accusing you of anything, these are just some things I would look into if I was having your problems as a black man

 

[EFFORT]

I had some sh!t typed up.

But I was thinking, he's not writing this for me, he's writing this for the people who are gaming white chicks with "urban" clothing.

No, he wrote this for minorities just to be aware of something that will impact your results. I'm black but relate better to white people (could call me an "oreo"). I don't talk urban, dress urban, or have any hip hop cultured influences but still experience the same things OP was explaining .

For the dude who's into black chicks but he still dresses "white"

So as I come to this conclusion, this is all I have to say.


There are always going to be things that lower your chances with the *****es.

You might not be rich enough

You might not be tall enough

You might not be a college quarter back

You might not be white

You might not be good looking enough


Theres nothing you can do about those things to a limit, you can get rich, you can start practicing being a quarter back now.


Accept what you cannot change, strive for the things you can.


Your still missing the point of the OP. This is not a pitty "i'm not good enough thread." All he is doing is bringing awareness to something that is REAL. It doesn't mean you can't get results, it doesn't mean you shouldn't still put yourself out there, it doesn't mean you should make excuses. Like you said "strive for the things you can change" well thats what this is all about. This is information that can aid you in making some better decisions about your lifestyle as a whole and bring some clarity to minorities out there that have been working on there game hard for awhile but not getting the results they should be getting. Again this all goes with girls outside of your "market". Just like you living in the bay area where interracial dating is more accepted a black guy putting in a lot of work yet not getting results in Idaho (but not posting about it since he thinks its his game that's the problem) could really benefit from knowing how different the dynamic is where you live. I'm sure a lot of this stuff sounds like common sense, but when brought up on any of the "improving yourself with women" type sites its quick to get flamed with people just saying its your game that's the problem. The whole point of sites like this is to be able to discuss a wide range of topics, and this is a specific topic where i feel a lot of minority guys can really get a lot of value from.

Best of luck to you fellow Don Juans.

bold

 

[Solomon]

CHea

Interesting post.

I agree that things may be a bit harder for your average black man to seduce your average white woman but I think it is based on perception mostly. To me, its akin to having a reputation that precedes you. As with every other race and gender, the (white) woman automatically (thinks she) knows where you are coming from and what you are about and determines whether or not they want in their life. As a seducer I think it is your duty to prove otherwise. For example, talking about 'likes' and things you have in common often bridge the gap between two people who thought they have nothing in common.
This is why social proof is very important. Going to a mostly white college, if a chick knew someone who I was cool with, it made it easier, no charltan can teach this!!
In my experiences at least, the difference between a white woman and a black woman is their level of interest. With a black woman, she is more likely to be innately interested in you than a white woman. It is not because you are black but because you are not white: binary oppositions at work. You are automatically positioned as "other' so it is your job to show likeness, create some sparks and then all systems go. That is why you have so much more success with black girls imo, the likeness is intrinsic
It's your opinion bro i respect it, but I disagree, some sisters can be issh difficult cause they wanna play lame games, but you get this with any race.
As for finding white women into black men, just go to a 'black' or 'urban' (are the two seen as synonymous nowadays or is it just me?) setting and take your pick. It's all about likeness imo. If the target is seen in an environment that is predominantly black than the likelihood of her being interested in black men increase exponentially. That is my hypothesis why successful black men are so into white women; as they go up the pay scale there are less and less similar-minded black women around...
Damn hit the nail on the head, but going to a "black" club you run into a lot of white women who are fatties or low quality, I'm not saying all are, I'm just saying some are, this is why the stereotype of brothers liking fatties comes from, Just peep that Chris Rock skit
However, I am assuming you don't want a 'white girl into black guys' or at least not the type that I have at times ran into, and if so, then you simply ask yourself: what is she into, am I into the same thing, and how do I convey this. Again, just because you are smart and educated doesn't mean that she is. Just because you are cultured and like X doesn't mean that she is as well. You could be talking about the effect on the stimulus plan on the working class and she really wants to talk about what happened on The Hills last night. This might not be as big of a chasm in people of similar ethnic/socio backgrounds but if they are different then it doesn't take much to be the last straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.
Once again this is truth, this is something a lot of older heads don't even realize. Macallik you ahead of the game bro
All in all, this post reminds me of posts about how tall guys have it easy or guys that are good looking got it made. It might be a bit more work but is it like your metaphor of starting a game down 50? Hardly. Knowing what you know about seduction which sounds like a lot to me, you should be constantly improving your ratio with white women.
I concuur peep my Fr's chea!!

What I want to know is as a succesful black man, working in the ________ field, are you ever approaching white women in the ________ field of work as well and are also getting rejected? For example, where I am from, if you are a black accountant, you have that connection and likeness with other accountants of all races and it supercedes the whole black and white, race thing. I am wondering if maybe you are an educated black man going for ditzy college girls or just girls who aren't similar to you irrespective of race? Or perhaps you under/overcompensate your ethnicity when you holler @ white girls? These are merely ideas running through my head, not accusing you of anything, these are just some things I would look into if I was having your problems as a black man

Good stuff

 

[macallik]

thanks for the kind words Sollie. As for social proof I'd say make sure it is quality if you are going for quality in this instance. If they are forming an opinion of you from an already disinterested perspective, you don't want to be caught with the girl that every black guy has ran (and there always seems to be at least in college)... If so, you are the 'stereotypical black guy who fvcks anything that moves'... further solidifiying her initial beliefs about you and making the seduction that much harder

 

[FreeStyleZ]

Interesting post.

I agree that things may be a bit harder for your average black man to seduce your average white woman but I think it is based on perception mostly. To me, its akin to having a reputation that precedes you. As with every other race and gender, the (white) woman automatically (thinks she) knows where you are coming from and what you are about and determines whether or not they want in their life. As a seducer I think it is your duty to prove otherwise. For example, talking about 'likes' and things you have in common often bridge the gap between two people who thought they have nothing in common.

This is true, I agree with this for the most part in that the way to still pick up white girls is by doing what you say, bridging the gap. But the whole concept of "bridging the gap" kind of seems related to my example I gave about starting off the game already down 50 points or something... how many points you start down (or how big of a gap there needs to be bridged) is going to vary from woman to woman. For example how big of a gap would there be with an asian chick who was raised to only date within her race and she has strong family/cultural upbringing holding her back from doing so... I'd say you need to have some damn there amazing game to bridge that gap and get her to look past your race and accept the social repercussions and backlash she'll receive from her family and peers... but yes it "can" be done which is where the whole notion that "looks don't matter' comes from.

In my experiences at least, the difference between a white woman and a black woman is their level of interest. With a black woman, she is more likely to be innately interested in you than a white woman. It is not because you are black but because you are not white: binary oppositions at work. You are automatically positioned as "other' so it is your job to show likeness, create some sparks and then all systems go. That is why you have so much more success with black girls imo, the likeness is intrinsic

I agree.

If the target is seen in an environment that is predominantly black than the likelihood of her being interested in black men increase exponentially. That is my hypothesis why successful black men are so into white women; as they go up the pay scale there are less and less similar-minded black women around...

I can agree to some extent except I'd say for me personally it has more to do with just I relate to them more culturally/socially due to my environment and upbringing.

All in all, this post reminds me of posts about how tall guys have it easy or guys that are good looking got it made. It might be a bit more work but is it like your metaphor of starting a game down 50? Hardly. Knowing what you know about seduction which sounds like a lot to me, you should be constantly improving your ratio with white women.

This isn't really a thread akin to how tall guys have it easy, i'd say that it's kind of like two salesmen of equal skill trying to sell umbrellas door to door based on their salesmen skill... one operates out of Seattle and the other operates out of Las Vegas in the desert. The one in Vegas meets the one in Seattle on let's say a business trip and is astounded as to why this salesmen of equal skill has such drastically higher results than him and comes to realize it's just about his location and market he's operating in.

Although as Crimson mentioned it should be common knowledge that if you're black/asian/minority and mainly gaming outside of your target market your results are going to be affected... it's not due to the message that's sent out on a lot of the game forums. I know myself as well as many other minorities I've met in the game were all confused at one point on why their results weren't there and anytime they'd even consider it might have something to do with race they just get flamed and told "NO, race doesn't matter AT ALL, if you can't get the same results as this white guy in this venue it's just because his game is better than yours,all that matters in this game IS your game".

What I want to know is as a succesful black man, working in the ________ field, are you ever approaching white women in the ________ field of work as well and are also getting rejected? For example, where I am from, if you are a black accountant, you have that connection and likeness with other accountants of all races and it supercedes the whole black and white, race thing. I am wondering if maybe you are an educated black man going for ditzy college girls or just girls who aren't similar to you irrespective of race? Or perhaps you under/overcompensate your ethnicity when you holler @ white girls? These are merely ideas running through my head, not accusing you of anything, these are just some things I would look into if I was having your problems as a black man

No I don't take offense to this question at all because I view it as a step in the right direction in terms of figuring things like this out. Since this is a topic I spent a lot of time thinking about and trying to come up with an answer to... I'd experimented with a lot of things and tried to learn through trial/error what works, and associate the patterns I got from my experiments to come up with my own conclusion on what's going on. So asking questions like this is similar to the types of questions I'd ask myself and then go out and try to test it out to see what the answer I came up with was and then use that information to my advantage.

To answer your question, I really can't even answer that because I actually play professional poker for a living. I guess the closest thing that's related to what you asked might have been when I was in college and had other white girls in my major in my classes and such but yeah that didn't really help to circumvent the issue too much, although I'm not going to try to speak on that too much because I can't say my game in college was nearly at a high enough level to really read too much into the results I got.

Since I play poker online for a living I spend a lot of my time traveling around with friends to various places so we don't really have that social "base" so to speak of meeting women within our social circle. That's kind of where having solid game comes in handy because it puts the responsibility on us to create a social circle and meet women wherever we go. Although I have certainly seen the issue come up with other black dudes or minorities in their place of work.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

lol, it just came to my attention from browsing the boards a bit and searching this topic that a well known poster by the name of Player Supreme apparently has been writing about this **** for a while now. I didn't know because I don't read the forums much and pretty much was out there working on my game.. or as he said in his post "wasting time trying to turn a white chick out". Even though presented in a way (hoes, pimping, *****es) i'm not congruent with personally, the same point he's making about environmental factors and marketing are pretty much the same realizations I pretty much had to come to on my own out there in the field. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59655

I guess that also could be related to why he's banned from the forums.

 

[macallik]

lol, it just came to my attention from browsing the boards a bit and searching this topic that a well known poster by the name of Player Supreme apparently has been writing about this **** for a while now. I didn't know because I don't read the forums much and pretty much was out there working on my game.. or as he said in his post "wasting time trying to turn a white chick out".

The thing is though... if you are into white women "culturally/socially due to [your] environment and upbringing," then you probably won't find what you consider to be a quality white woman by going to the predominantly black settings unless you are in black setting that is not in the lower-mid class range. For me, if I wasn't into black girls who act ghetto, then a white girl who acts ghetto will turn me off just the same eventually.

To elaborate on what PS said, have you tried settings that have progressive thinking? Say, for example, hitting up an art exhibit or a protest or whatever scenes you can think of where overcoming the issue of race would be less of an issue. Even in terms of clubs, you might stand the best chance at a hip hop club but if you want a white girl who isn't into rap music and smoking weed all day, you would stand a better chance at a electronic music club than you would a country music club.

Even though presented in a way (hoes, pimping, *****es) i'm not congruent with personally, the same point he's making about environmental factors and marketing are pretty much the same realizations I pretty much had to come to on my own out there in the field. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthr...threadid=59655

I guess that also could be related to why he's banned from the forums.

He has some good posts specifically dealing with the, imo, more aggressive game often assosicated with African American Women, but at the same time, if my memory serves me correct he was very antagonistic and closed minded as well. I think I remember occasions where he would try to demoralize or get into flame wars with people who challenged his views. Whenever I think of him, I think of the gay bashing, 'everyone is a hor' poster PuertoRicanLover. You might want to search some of the guys who respond to his posts though because a couple of them are black men who have their game down and have probably also have some insight on the topic. Some black members like Silquee Smoove, Ashlee Angel, So Many Ways are good posters I think.

 

[Solomon]

Good stuff

The thing is though... if you are into white women "culturally/socially due to [your] environment and upbringing," then you probably won't find what you consider to be a quality white woman by going to the predominantly black settings unless you are in black setting that is not in the lower-mid class range. For me, if I wasn't into black girls who act ghetto, then a white girl who acts ghetto will turn me off just the same eventually.

To elaborate on what PS said, have you tried settings that have progressive thinking? Say, for example, hitting up an art exhibit or a protest or whatever scenes you can think of where overcoming the issue of race would be less of an issue. Even in terms of clubs, you might stand the best chance at a hip hop club but if you want a white girl who isn't into rap music and smoking weed all day, you would stand a better chance at a electronic music club than you would a country music club.


He has some good posts specifically dealing with the, imo, more aggressive game often assosicated with African American Women, but at the same time, if my memory serves me correct he was very antagonistic and closed minded as well. I think I remember occasions where he would try to demoralize or get into flame wars with people who challenged his views. Whenever I think of him, I think of the gay bashing, 'everyone is a hor' poster PuertoRicanLover. You might want to search some of the guys who respond to his posts though because a couple of them are black men who have their game down and have probably also have some insight on the topic. Some black members like Silquee Smoove, Ashlee Angel, So Many Ways are good posters I think.

Macallik I agree with you, but once again, I'd rather pick up chicks at clubs that are "diverse" then just black. The sterotypical black club you get "ghetto white females" or females who try to be "down". However to keep it real and not generalize there are some bad ass (very hot)white females who got to "urban/black" clubs.

My reality got blown when I use to roll with this natural. He was a kid from africa, 6'4 lean decent looking. He would go to this country ass hick bar, and pull like a mother. I didn't get it, but then I understod he was able to "adapt to his enivorment" he had haters, you know why? cause he was pulling some fine ass white women, not fatties but the waitress and girls, he had fuccing social proof out the ass. It's all about marketing and how you present yourself, I find it ironic that Player supreme wrote that article, if you would understand adapting to your enviorment means also switching up your style sometimes(something that Tariq Nasheed teaches i.e. The grown man look).

For instance, I can't rock baggy ass jeans, a white-tee and expect to get into a lot of "white clubs" in my city, shiit won't happen, the only clubs that will let me in are the ghetto clubs, where you have to wear a condom mask on your face, cause you might catch something from breathing. I've learned this early on, as I got older i started dressing more as a man instead of a boy. This is why half my closet is nothing but button ups/suites etc etc. On top of that, I learned that some clubs were you have to "dress" up has hotter/more quality women, where some of the "urban" clubs have the chicks that everybody done ran through (white or black)

Good discussion this might be the best thread of 09 thus far

Solo

 

[bigguns22]

I think the original poster nailed it. He's one of the first minorities I've seen on this board, especially black guys, that admits it's more difficult for them to pull white chicks. Usually you get this spiel about "all the white hoes we get because we're black"....it's simply not true. Unfortunately, fat white women go with black men because white men rejected them. I'm not saying white guys are any better, because we're not. It's just that most white women are attracted to white guys, regardless of the Hollywood stereotype about how all white chicks crave black men. It's funny how many people actually believe and perpetuate the myth, even though they don't have success with white women in real life. I do agree that european women, especially German women, are much more open to black men. You'd have much better luck with those.

 

[backbreaker]

i'll chime in

i'm black and while I have never had a real probelm dating white women or any women for that matter, I do have ot put more effort into it than probably Joseph your all american white guy does. some women just aren't going to dig you. but you know what I havfe found out.. that's not really my problem.

I put myself out there more (when I am dating) and alot of it has to do where you live. whenI was in arkansas man, it was hell. I like black women, my ex fiancee was black. But i like all types of women. I like attractive women. I have a little money and it helps but even with that said, some women just don't want to not deal with the stimga, but everything that comes along with dating a black person int he south. screw em. i didnt' do anything wrong. I'd still get dates, even nice looking ones, but you had to take alot more rejection to get the same amount of numbers.

Out here in socal before I met my GF, I could count on getting High IOI's from at least 1 cute woman a day outside of my race. Even with that said, you have to put yourself out there.

It was funny, my GF now, if you met her you would never think she would have a black BF. she doesn't strike you as that "type". I saw her one day and started talking to her and asked her out she said okay, and that was that. you gotta keep trying. I've known girls that make somewhat of a deal out of "us being together" for "you know why".. and I've dated girls that really could care less, and I mean seriously, could care less.


Volitare once said "Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game.”

I don't look at my skin color as being a bad thing or a negative, but let's say you did. you also have to realize that there are some things about you that are in your favor that everyone else doesn't necessairly have. I'm a pretty handsome guy. I'd rather be a strikingly handsome black guy than an avg looking white guy. you take what you have and make what you can make out of it, and figure out how to get what you want. tbat's life.


alot of what I have found out is alot of the guys that complain, are the ones who honestly hold white women or any woman for that matter, as a higher standard than they are. It's something that most white guys dont' have to deal with. it's looking at her as the prize to a whole new level. ONe thing this post doesn't account for is that hey, black guys can be AFC as well. hell I was worst than most here. yes you are getting shot down.. but it might not be beucase you are black. you might just suck.

I've dated some very, very, very nice looking women of all colors. I've fvcked NBA cheerleaders, news broadcasters, swimsuit models, high school teachers, strippers.. i've ran through women of all color. I say that to say, you would be suprised what can happen if you honestly try. alot of guys say it's hard, but they say it's hard becuase they go out with their friends and see women hitting on their white counterparts and not them. I've been here. you get distraught and throw you rhands in the air. Why can't that smoking hot white chick come hit on me. I know I look better than he does.

But you would be suprised what will happen if you just TRY. I carry myself well, I am good looking and I thinhk i'm a catch god damnit. Just go over there and make her say NO. What's a phone number? What's going out to play pool one night? is it going to kill you? hell you might even enjoy yourself. I tried that line on a white woman about 3 years ago and she hesitiantly accecpted and told me that she was going and don't expect anythng to come of it, and 3 hours later I was PIIHB.

Once I opened up and started to talk to them, and basically be my charasmatic, fun loving, nice, f unny yet serious self, women like you. that cheerleader I met her at a night club after an exibition game in little rock, saw her dancing by herself, grabbed her hand and started dancing with her, introduced my self, left her alone, came back later and asked her hey, let's go get something to eat... and i'll be damned if she did not say okay, let's go. Ass licking hot does not begin to describe this girl.

But you miss 100 percent of the shots you dont' take. My old oneitis, who is white / colombian, tells me to this day, I am one of the best looking guys she ever met. It wasn't me being Black why she wasn't interested, it was me being a chump. It was me being scared of treating her like a normal ass woman who gets up and puts makeup on like everyone else does.

And be your self. If you don't like Art, don't go to try to get women. you are just as bad as the chump in barnes in noble that doesn't like coffee. I don't listen to rap or really R&B becuase I dont' really feel it, I like jazz. If you dont' like jazz, I really don't give a damn, we are just two people who likes two different types of music. I dont' listen to jazz to be cultured, I listen to jazz becuase i love it. Be the best person you can be. Embrace your passions and your loves. dont' be an avg generiic person. Be the best YOU that it can possibly be. If you like hip hop, if you like to wear baggy clothes, it won't get you every woman but you will be doin what you love to do and your self esteem will be higher, and woman will take notice. I do things my way. I like slacks / dress shirts and suits. I'm a big suit guy. Some woman say I over dress. they can fvck off. I like dressing up. she actually thinks I'm doing it for her, which is funny.

and when you get real comfortable with you, women really notice.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

The thing is though... if you are into white women "culturally/socially due to [your] environment and upbringing," then you probably won't find what you consider to be a quality white woman by going to the predominantly black settings unless you are in black setting that is not in the lower-mid class range. For me, if I wasn't into black girls who act ghetto, then a white girl who acts ghetto will turn me off just the same eventually.

To elaborate on what PS said, have you tried settings that have progressive thinking? Say, for example, hitting up an art exhibit or a protest or whatever scenes you can think of where overcoming the issue of race would be less of an issue. Even in terms of clubs, you might stand the best chance at a hip hop club but if you want a white girl who isn't into rap music and smoking weed all day, you would stand a better chance at a electronic music club than you would a country music club.

This is exactly spot on and something a few other members were PM'ing me about. This has been my experience as well that a large % of white girls that are into black guys will be looking for a different type of black guy than what I am. I have been able to hook up with these types before because I have a bit of black culture naturally rooted into me from childhood/family but in the grand scheme of things we just can't really relate.

The best answer for a black guy that's more attracted to white women and can relate better to them culturally/socially that I've come across is to travel to various other countries with Australia being a good choice. Huge problem with that though is I'm aware a lot of people wouldn't have the means or a situation allowing them to just move/travel around like that. So yeah the other option is to just keep approaching the white girls here in the USA while continuing to work on your game and you WILL inevitably get results but it just will take more effort/work than for a white dude. There also do exist white girls that like black guys who aren't stereotypically "ghetto" although they are fewer and far between.

To elaborate on what PS said, have you tried settings that have progressive thinking? Say, for example, hitting up an art exhibit or a protest or whatever scenes you can think of where overcoming the issue of race would be less of an issue. Even in terms of clubs, you might stand the best chance at a hip hop club but if you want a white girl who isn't into rap music and smoking weed all day, you would stand a better chance at a electronic music club than you would a country music club.

No I can't honestly say that I've given those types of venues with progressive thinking a huge portion of time experimenting with gaming there. Mainly because personality wise I DO enjoy going to night clubs and that kind of scene moreso than an artistic scene although I'm certainly the type that's willing to try out a lot of things just to test the results. I have done lots of day game approaches however in bookstores which is certainly a tougher hunting ground.

He has some good posts specifically dealing with the, imo, more aggressive game often assosicated with African American Women, but at the same time, if my memory serves me correct he was very antagonistic and closed minded as well. I think I remember occasions where he would try to demoralize or get into flame wars with people who challenged his views. Whenever I think of him, I think of the gay bashing, 'everyone is a hor' poster PuertoRicanLover. You might want to search some of the guys who respond to his posts though because a couple of them are black men who have their game down and have probably also have some insight on the topic. Some black members like Silquee Smoove, Ashlee Angel, So Many Ways are good posters I think.

I'll check it out. Yeah if most of his advice revolves around just going to your "market" in terms of black women then that wouldn't help for black guys that want to game white girls.

One friend of mine is a black dude that's not into black girls at all physically and can't relate to them socially/culturally simply due to his own upbringing and surroundings. He's been with more white girls and had more girlfriends by far than the average guy but just had to pure more work into it. One of his hottest girlfriends was an Australian chick that was studying abroad at his school. That's just a further testament to how you will be able to overcome it but you just have to be willing to put in the work. But the thing about that too though is that he has to approach high volume and can't necessarily have his "pick" of the woman or get the top of the line white girls that he's interested in even though he can get a pretty decent result and more results than his white peers. If his white peer/friends though went out and put in his type of volume/effort however, they would be probably be absolutely crushing and having options out the ass.

Macallik I agree with you, but once again, I'd rather pick up chicks at clubs that are "diverse" then just black. The sterotypical black club you get "ghetto white females" or females who try to be "down". However to keep it real and not generalize there are some bad ass (very hot)white females who got to "urban/black" clubs.

Agreed.

My reality got blown when I use to roll with this natural. He was a kid from africa, 6'4 lean decent looking. He would go to this country ass hick bar, and pull like a mother. I didn't get it, but then I understod he was able to "adapt to his enivorment" he had haters, you know why? cause he was pulling some fine ass white women, not fatties but the waitress and girls, he had fuccing social proof out the ass. It's all about marketing and how you present yourself, I find it ironic that Player supreme wrote that article, if you would understand adapting to your enviorment means also switching up your style sometimes(something that Tariq Nasheed teaches i.e. The grown man look).

If he can walk into a country bar with know social value already known to the people in there (being a basketball star, having lots of money, having friends in high places, etc) and create all that social proof from scratch, then be able to game/pull fine ass white girls from that venue then I'd tip my hat to him if I saw it in person and try to learn from him admitting that he has better game than me. I just have never been fortunate enough to witness such a thing even though I've tried to find guys who can do it.

I have a cousin that probably has slept with over 200 girls a lot of which include white girls. Now if he were to post on this board and read this thread the whole idea of getting white girls being more difficult would probably be something he can't relate to because he doesn't understand why he gets the results he gets. Basically he gets them because he's the captain of his fraternity in college and was on the football team as well so his social value is just so high that it's enough to overcome the racial barriers. The same way that some rapper or dude of very high social value has no problem pulling white girls either.

Now I've actually GONE OUT to bars/clubs with this same cousin and in an environment where he doesn't have any preconceived social value and is on a level playing field as me, his game is FAR FAR weaker than mine. He was asking me "wtf you saying to these *****es man?" and just didn't have that skill of being able to produce that kind of social value through game that he already had naturally within his social life. Now obviously some guy with that kind of social value already can bang hot white girls without a problem, but the reason I mention it is because it just demonstrates environment and how a guy that can pull easily in one environment may not be able to pull to save his life in another.

Most girls that he's pulled from cold approaches for the most part are black girls, now if I have stronger game than him admittedly on his part, why would he be pulling much more consistently than I would if it didn't have to do with the market he's gaming in. One guy has better game than the other yet the other guy gets better results. Something like that just relates to what I was posting about in the OP.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

I think the original poster nailed it. He's one of the first minorities I've seen on this board, especially black guys, that admits it's more difficult for them to pull white chicks. Usually you get this spiel about "all the white hoes we get because we're black"....it's simply not true.

They may be under the impression white girls are easy because the few that are hanging around the venues they frequent are already into black guys so it's easy.

I've had a white girl that was into black guys just watch how I interacted with some black friends of mine while we were just all hanging out and within 30mins of just listening to me talk (we didn't talk to each other) she specifically called me out and asked me to come back to her room with her to get something.

Easiest pull ever which was related to being black.

But if they or I tried to go replicate that same result with more white women especially the ones that aren't preferential towards black guys it would just be a big fail if they think it would be "easy" or consistent.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

i'm black and while I have never had a real probelm dating white women or any women for that matter, I do have ot put more effort into it than probably Joseph your all american white guy does. some women just aren't going to dig you. but you know what I havfe found out.. that's not really my problem.

I put myself out there more (when I am dating) and alot of it has to do where you live. whenI was in arkansas man, it was hell. I like black women, my ex fiancee was black. But i like all types of women. I like attractive women. I have a little money and it helps but even with that said, some women just don't want to not deal with the stimga, but everything that comes along with dating a black person int he south. screw em. i didnt' do anything wrong. I'd still get dates, even nice looking ones, but you had to take alot more rejection to get the same amount of numbers.

Precisely, spot on.

 

[optimusprime]

and when you get real comfortable with you, women really notice.

This is a great thread and I appreciate all of the contributions. But you can't say to a minority guy who has low self-esteem or fear of approaching WW for a variety of reasons to just be confident, or just try, or just be happy with yourself, or just stop complaining. Game springs from practice and confidence, which cannot be created in a short time.

All my self-esteem has either been humiliated, taunted, beaten, or knocked out of me back when I was the only Indo/Pak kid growing up in a redneck Southern town. Because of this, I'll admit that I probably do not have any game. When growing up, I was constantly told that a white girl was the forbidden fruit, so I may subconsciously put them on a pedestal now. The minority guys who put them on a pedestal are going to have difficulty, because women can detect everything, right?

The only women I've gotten are because of my body (when I was really fit), they were really drunk, or they were Euro. With olive skin, light eyes, good skin, and 5'10 height, I should be getting laid at an average rate but my attitude is distorted. Growing up in an intolerant, redneck area has messed up my mind, so when a hot American WW is interested, I either psych myself out, avoid her, or mess it up somehow.

Basically, what I am trying to add to FreeStylez's original post is that changing where you play the game may also be helpful because a new environment may change how you think or allow to drop all the emotional baggage. I think I was very successful in Europe because it was a totally different environment from the U.S.; since everything is so different, the painful memories have no relevance.

Obviously, I'm at the very beginning stage of the game. For you minority guys who have developed confidence and been able to accept rejection, how can I gain self-esteem? I've been working out and doing well in grad school, so I am happy in academic and professional terms.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

Basically, what I am trying to add to FreeStylez's original post is that changing where you play the game may also be helpful because a new environment may change how you think or allow to drop all the emotional baggage. I think I was very successful in Europe because it was a totally different environment from the U.S.; since everything is so different, the painful memories have no relevance.

EXACTLY! Changing the environment or market in which you work on your game can actually ACCELERATE your learning curve and speed the whole process up because:

1) You gain confidence faster with better results and better responses
2) You get to reach later stages of pickups and game more often when you actually get better results. When you are gaming IN your market, you are going to reach the end game/seduction phase more often and thus be able to cultivate your skill here, whereas with girls outside your market you can essentially get all the practice you need with opening/attraction/rapport/middle game and such... for the most part.

So by someone finding out sooner than later they can change their environment for gaming... even if it offers slightly better results, those successes build upon more successes and generate more confidence/self esteem for a newbie.

Pretty much the way I did it was I gamed in the trenches for a long time completely outside of my market because I was convinced that if I were simply good enough game wise that I should be able to pick these girls up.

My main focus even when I first got into gaming was simply to build the skills for myself socially anyway so as far as what my goals were it may have even been better training grounds, but once I got to the point where I felt that my skills should be producing more results than what they were, I began to explore gaming in other markets to compare and contrast my results.

It's not the worst thing in the world because when you do eventually change your market, you come to realize that you were previously playing the game on hard mode and you'll find gaming girls in your market much more of a turkey shoot.

 

[backbreaker]

dude, I am a minority. I have been t here where you are now, and the truth of the matter is, you have to be confident in yourself. the **** is not easy.

there is no magic forumla, no truth pill, that is going to gain your confidence. when i first got here, I was scared ****less of attracive women, i didn't give a damn what color they were. I did the bootcamp, I talked to random people and said hi, then I would hold aconverstion with a random woman, then I would ask a woman out, then I would ask a woman out a day.

you have to get over your fear. no one is going to hold your hand. this is a program of action, not one of theory. I say you have to be confident beucase you have to. now the trick is, how do you GET confident. that is a different question altogether. only you can find that. for me it was getting in shape. getting my financies in order, and following my passions in life. I can't answer that for you.

I know what you re going through man. I was taken through there by women in general. Dogged, walked on, women had no respect for me and by the time I got here, I had no respect for myself. that's what we are here for. read the DJ bible, sit back, and questions, forget about women for a half a year. I say this knowing no one will actually do it, but I went 3 years without dating because of my business I was running and it was the best thing I ever did. I dont' need a woman to be happy, and it is shown in my everyday activities with women. If you can take 6 months and figure out what is wrong iwth you, and work on you, the confidence will come.

I do not buy the whole "let's go to a different country bit either". what's next, are short men going to go to another country where short men are execpted, are fat men going to go to another women where the women are so "different"? It's life. You deal with it. You have to be pretty AFC to move to a different country just to get laid. That's my personal opinion. **** is not that serious.

Also, note, my GF is not only white, she's British. Accent and all . And I assure you, overseas there are bigots just like there are here. There are people in her family that while dont' come out and say it, look at me and look at our son and you can tell they are let's just say "uncomfortable". That's really a part of life. If you are going to try to r un from life, you are going to be very tired.

My 8th grade math teacher, also black, and was probably the smartest man I ever met, told me, as a man and not a teacher, that becuase of the color of our skin, you are going to work twice as hard to get half the results. It's not necessarily wrong, it's not right, it just is.

While me moving to Del Mar was great, I did not move to Del Mar to chase ass. I moved because 1) I hate arknasas and 2) there is horse racing year round down here. I was getting much ass back home, and really could care less that I had to work for it.

You have to learn how to live life on life's terms.