FreeStyleZ
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2003
- Messages
- 358
- Reaction score
- 3
I really don't take the time to post or read on the game forums too much these days but kind of felt as though this was something I wanted to post about just in case it might help some guys out there who may be working on game, but feel as though their results aren't matching their improvements in skill they are making. I've gamed in various different countries around the world.... with women from all different types of backgrounds as well as met/helped some guys from the community as well. This was an issue that I noticed with other minorities in game that really helped improve ALL their results.
I started like most people out there... coming from a low point in life wanting to work on my skills with women or just socially in general and improve as a person. I was making lots of progress going out probably 5-6 nights a week, seriously committed to getting this area of my life handled. I had taken various workshops with different companies that I felt were instrumental in getting me on the right track and definitely VERY valuable from just a life standpoint in general, as well as my game. I felt myself getting much better skill wise with women and was very pleased with how things were coming along but it felt as though I hit somewhat of a wall in terms of the results I was getting. I was able to get phone #s no problem, make outs no problem, day 2s much less frequently, and a full close much less frequently if ever. I figured there had to be something wrong with my game, some kind of leak in my personality that I simply needed to work on since that's what the game had taught me, that the game is the game is the game and if something went wrong it's in your control to fix it. Well that was true for sure, but the answer I ended up finding to help solve my issue wasn't really written about extensively in the community, at least that i'd seen anyway, or if it was the extent to how big of an impact it would have on your results was not stressed in any meaningful way to get my attention.
Basically, I was a black guy that was gaming/practicing/sarging in venues with white girls that basically were not very much into black guys. Yes, I know there are white girls that love black guys, I've hooked up with those not a problem, but the standard white girl that I was trying to pick up was not into a black guy the same way in which she's into another white guy. I mean it's totally understandable, there's added social pressures on her from family/friends for dating outside her race even if unspoken, even if there isn't she might not feel comftorable with it, or a myriad of other reasons that really just go deep into some of the more complex racial/social views that exist in our society. Now for most of the gurus/coaches out there, they probably don't have any experience dealing with this issue since the majority of them are white and go after white girls, and even if they don't other races don't really have the same social risks of dating a white guy as they would from dating a black guy with some of the negative stereotypes we have in general. I really hate playing the "race card" and certainly avoid it in most of my everyday life, but not acknowledging it as having an effect on the results I was getting with women is simply not making the best decision as far as what's going to get me what I want.
Yes I was able to get some results here and there with white girls but not more than white friends of mine who were asking ME for advice on how to game, which further confused me because I had noticeably more game than them. I also spent a lot of time examining this belief of mine that I was developing because I hated the idea of just sitting back and placing all the blame in my lack of results on race. So that's how I ended up gaming in other countries and other races of girls. When I went to some of these countries I had no problem getting day2s, lays, or multiple girlfriends... and it basically felt like the skills I had been honing elsewhere was getting me much better results just by changing where I was playing the game. I also experimented with just gaming solely black girls even though I'm not as into them, JUST to further experiment around and try to find out what it was. The disparity between the results I was getting in general was just incredible. The same sticking points I ran into with girls outside of my race were MUCH less prevalent with girls of the same race as me, or girls in antoher country that was more accepting socially of interracial dating. I even ran online tests using two guys who were pretty much identical in terms of looks and profile, but one was black and one was white and would send the same message with a controlled sample size on both. Again, the difference in results was pretty amazing, and this is an experiemnt you could do on your own.
Again, this isn't saying at all that it's impossible to like amazingly hard to get a white girl if you are black (one that doesn't already like black guys on her own), but it's just saying that the results you are going to get will NOT match your white counter part or the results you would get if you were in your own 'market' so to say. It's kind of like the idea of playing a basketball game but starting the game already down 50 points. You CAN win, you just have to be THAT much better than the other team and become THAT much more skilled than the team you're playing in order to overcome that deficit in points. It can be done with hard work and really finetuning your skills but even then it will not be consistent winnings because some of the time that team will have a bigger initial lead than 50 (when a girl has more social pressures on her or insecurities with dating outside her race than others). Meanwhile another team that just starts off with a score of 0-0 that has the same skill as you is going to win more times overall than you. And yeah, even the times you don't "win" the game, you're still scoring points or sometimes coming close... in the form of getting make outs, #s, getting back to the girls place, LMR, etc.
I mean this post isn't to say white girls are racist BY ANY MEANS AT ALL (just figured i'd state that since I don't even want this to steer that direction), because it's perfectly natural to have your preference in guys, the same way we have our preference in women, some women just like a guy of their own race more than outside of that, perfectly fine. Just being observant because being oblivious would have had me constantly wondering for another 2 years why my results aren't where I want them to be.
Some of you minorities may have already figured this out and that's cool, silly me right? But from what I had read online in all the resources I'd seen and heard was that looks didn't matter, race didn't matter, nothing mattered but game. The most potent resources I had found usually came from Tyler Durden and he'd constantly make comments like "Put me in anyone of yalls body's and I will pull, I WILL", well yeah he'd pull in my body too but not nearly with the same regularity or consistency he does with his own market. I pull in my body as well.
The reason I decided to post this though was because there are a bunch of guys i've met through game that are minorities practicing their game in mostly white venues completely confused as to why they don't get the same results as some of their friends or get the results they feel their skill should dictate. I know for myself, I felt as though my game was really coming along and most of the skills mentioned in game I could do and pretty damn well, but my full closing rates were considerably low. Then as soon as I changed my target market my results pretty much changed instantaneously. Obviously in the USA if I had some kind of venue where I could game non-black girls that just specifically liked black guys I'd have been able to have that realization there as well but it just doesn't really exist. So i'd randomly get girls here and there that liked black guys and i'd get results, whereas gaming in a market where all the girls are open to you basically felt like playing the game from 0-0 for once.
I started like most people out there... coming from a low point in life wanting to work on my skills with women or just socially in general and improve as a person. I was making lots of progress going out probably 5-6 nights a week, seriously committed to getting this area of my life handled. I had taken various workshops with different companies that I felt were instrumental in getting me on the right track and definitely VERY valuable from just a life standpoint in general, as well as my game. I felt myself getting much better skill wise with women and was very pleased with how things were coming along but it felt as though I hit somewhat of a wall in terms of the results I was getting. I was able to get phone #s no problem, make outs no problem, day 2s much less frequently, and a full close much less frequently if ever. I figured there had to be something wrong with my game, some kind of leak in my personality that I simply needed to work on since that's what the game had taught me, that the game is the game is the game and if something went wrong it's in your control to fix it. Well that was true for sure, but the answer I ended up finding to help solve my issue wasn't really written about extensively in the community, at least that i'd seen anyway, or if it was the extent to how big of an impact it would have on your results was not stressed in any meaningful way to get my attention.
Basically, I was a black guy that was gaming/practicing/sarging in venues with white girls that basically were not very much into black guys. Yes, I know there are white girls that love black guys, I've hooked up with those not a problem, but the standard white girl that I was trying to pick up was not into a black guy the same way in which she's into another white guy. I mean it's totally understandable, there's added social pressures on her from family/friends for dating outside her race even if unspoken, even if there isn't she might not feel comftorable with it, or a myriad of other reasons that really just go deep into some of the more complex racial/social views that exist in our society. Now for most of the gurus/coaches out there, they probably don't have any experience dealing with this issue since the majority of them are white and go after white girls, and even if they don't other races don't really have the same social risks of dating a white guy as they would from dating a black guy with some of the negative stereotypes we have in general. I really hate playing the "race card" and certainly avoid it in most of my everyday life, but not acknowledging it as having an effect on the results I was getting with women is simply not making the best decision as far as what's going to get me what I want.
Yes I was able to get some results here and there with white girls but not more than white friends of mine who were asking ME for advice on how to game, which further confused me because I had noticeably more game than them. I also spent a lot of time examining this belief of mine that I was developing because I hated the idea of just sitting back and placing all the blame in my lack of results on race. So that's how I ended up gaming in other countries and other races of girls. When I went to some of these countries I had no problem getting day2s, lays, or multiple girlfriends... and it basically felt like the skills I had been honing elsewhere was getting me much better results just by changing where I was playing the game. I also experimented with just gaming solely black girls even though I'm not as into them, JUST to further experiment around and try to find out what it was. The disparity between the results I was getting in general was just incredible. The same sticking points I ran into with girls outside of my race were MUCH less prevalent with girls of the same race as me, or girls in antoher country that was more accepting socially of interracial dating. I even ran online tests using two guys who were pretty much identical in terms of looks and profile, but one was black and one was white and would send the same message with a controlled sample size on both. Again, the difference in results was pretty amazing, and this is an experiemnt you could do on your own.
Again, this isn't saying at all that it's impossible to like amazingly hard to get a white girl if you are black (one that doesn't already like black guys on her own), but it's just saying that the results you are going to get will NOT match your white counter part or the results you would get if you were in your own 'market' so to say. It's kind of like the idea of playing a basketball game but starting the game already down 50 points. You CAN win, you just have to be THAT much better than the other team and become THAT much more skilled than the team you're playing in order to overcome that deficit in points. It can be done with hard work and really finetuning your skills but even then it will not be consistent winnings because some of the time that team will have a bigger initial lead than 50 (when a girl has more social pressures on her or insecurities with dating outside her race than others). Meanwhile another team that just starts off with a score of 0-0 that has the same skill as you is going to win more times overall than you. And yeah, even the times you don't "win" the game, you're still scoring points or sometimes coming close... in the form of getting make outs, #s, getting back to the girls place, LMR, etc.
I mean this post isn't to say white girls are racist BY ANY MEANS AT ALL (just figured i'd state that since I don't even want this to steer that direction), because it's perfectly natural to have your preference in guys, the same way we have our preference in women, some women just like a guy of their own race more than outside of that, perfectly fine. Just being observant because being oblivious would have had me constantly wondering for another 2 years why my results aren't where I want them to be.
Some of you minorities may have already figured this out and that's cool, silly me right? But from what I had read online in all the resources I'd seen and heard was that looks didn't matter, race didn't matter, nothing mattered but game. The most potent resources I had found usually came from Tyler Durden and he'd constantly make comments like "Put me in anyone of yalls body's and I will pull, I WILL", well yeah he'd pull in my body too but not nearly with the same regularity or consistency he does with his own market. I pull in my body as well.
The reason I decided to post this though was because there are a bunch of guys i've met through game that are minorities practicing their game in mostly white venues completely confused as to why they don't get the same results as some of their friends or get the results they feel their skill should dictate. I know for myself, I felt as though my game was really coming along and most of the skills mentioned in game I could do and pretty damn well, but my full closing rates were considerably low. Then as soon as I changed my target market my results pretty much changed instantaneously. Obviously in the USA if I had some kind of venue where I could game non-black girls that just specifically liked black guys I'd have been able to have that realization there as well but it just doesn't really exist. So i'd randomly get girls here and there that liked black guys and i'd get results, whereas gaming in a market where all the girls are open to you basically felt like playing the game from 0-0 for once.
