mature communication

[francheezy]

ok.

so here's a question:

what's more DJ- to learn to give trust and know that you can get through whatever comes your way? Even if it goes South?

Or to be with a high guard, in essence in a self protective mode by scrutinizing and trying to in essence translate/reinterpret everything that's ever said or done, while being terrified of closeness with someone or eventual attachment?

Granted, there's something called ******** - but is it a blatant over generalization to think that every woman when she says No means yes, when she says jump she means don't?

What's more DJ, to accept or to always scrutinize? What's more confident?


You do have a point about desensitizing - I have about some things and I recognize that part I just don't care in a way about some stuff. I'm just not chasing poon-tang left and right anymore, been there done that. that's what HS and college was for. My focus are career, art, design and family.

But I do know I want to get married someday and need to meet the right person, not just any person - which is why you date and eventually stick with someone. Particularly in a such plastic society like south Florida.. go find a wife you aren't likely to divorce - good luck.. I want a wife, not a first wife lol

I remember I found these forums my sophomore year of high school, about 11 years ago, although I had a diff username. So it's not that I'm not aware of things or psyche, I've dated left and right from young to old (oldest in her high 30s) and never really had a problem getting dates, creating attraction or getting my way. But then again, who knows.. maybe there are different people? Do you ever question?

mhhh....

 

[AMDG]

in essence in a self protective mode

Better than being used, don't you think ?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

,..is it a blatant over generalization to think that every woman when she says No means yes, when she says jump she means don't?

You're dealing in absolutes. How I wish it were all as simple as a yes or no answer.

generalization

n 1: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances [syn: abstraction, generalisation] 2: reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalisation, induction, inductive reasoning] 3: an idea having general application; "he spoke in broad generalities" [syn: generalisation, generality] 4: (psychology) transfer of a response learned to one stimulus to a similar stimulus [syn: generalisation, stimulus generalization, stimulus generalisation]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


Generalization gets a bum rap. It ougt to be used in the way it was actually intended - drawing hypothesis and conclusions from a greater, general whole of observed behavior. Pay close attention to #2, "reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalisation, induction, inductive reasoning]." I am sorry if this process offends you, but I'm interested in the general Rule, since it,_ and not the exceptions to it, better help to predict an outcome.

Like it or not generalizations are useful and we use them all the time to see the forest for the trees. It's not isolated abnormalities in a system that we use to describe the circumstances of that system, it's the whole. We study majorities to assess overall condition, not isolations. That's the scientific definition of generalities, but when they refer to things that are close to us we tend to put ourselves into the generalization and cop the "not-in-my-case" menality. We'd like to think that our experiences are unique and special (and they are, to us), but in the generality we're simply statistics. So the word 'Generalize' gets a negative connotation and the person using it is vilified, because it's an afront to our "special" conditions. The good news is that you have over 65K members, worldwide, and at your fingertips on sosuave who can relate their own experiences to give you a very broad pool to generalize from.

That said, women do not send 'mixed messages. More often than not there's nothing 'Mixed' being communicated and rather it's a failure (willful or not) to read what a woman is communicating. The average guy tends to 'get' exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own. When a girl goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message - she's got buyers regret, you're not her first priority, she's deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. - the message isn't the 'what ifs', the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? This IS the message. You simply don't want to HEAR that message, because you've made her into your fantasy idealization and the message is incongruent with that fiction.

What most guys think are 'mixed messages' or confusing behaviors coming from a woman is simply due to their inability (for whatever reason) to make an accurate interpretation of why she's behaving in such a manner. Usually this boils down to a guy getting so wrapped up in a girl that he'd rather make concessions for this behavior than see it for what it really is. In other words, it's far easier to call it 'mixed messages' or fall back on the old chestnut of how fickle and random women are, when in fact it's simply a rationale to keep themselves on the hook, so to speak, because they lack any real, viable, options with other women in their lives. A woman that has a high IL in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women with high IL wont confuse you. When a woman wants to ƒuck she'll find a way to ƒuck.

What's more DJ, to accept or to always scrutinize? What's more confident?

What's more confident is having the depth of experience to know that women are covert, not overt, communicators. Date enough women, experience enough of them, consider the commonalities that other men on this forum relate about their own experiences and you'll know that behavior is the only verifiable proof of motivation and intent. Always believe what a woman does, not what she says. I understand that the association you're trying to make is that being analytical about this - instead of going with the flow and trusting - makes us unconfident. I'll answer that by saying there is nothing the feminine imperative finds more useful than a guy who thinks he's more attractive to women by be unquestioning about women's covert intents. Confidence comes from options, prior experience and the foreknowledge of being able to subjectively predict an outcome from them.

You do have a point about desensitizing - I have about some things and I recognize that part I just don't care in a way about some stuff. I'm just not chasing poon-tang left and right anymore, been there done that. that's what HS and college was for

"Chasing" poon is a far cry from getting poon. I imagine you might get tired of chasing poon and never getting it, that's why most guys find this forum. You're not desensitized by anything but your lack of sexual intimacy. This is what's driving you to manufacture an HB6, "professional" virgin into some marriageable 'diamond in the rough'. Like most AFCs you're only making your necessity a virtue. It sounds like wisdom, but you really have no other options, so you've got to fabricate a way to feel good about your conditions.

But I do know I want to get married someday and need to meet the right person, not just any person - which is why you date and eventually stick with someone. Particularly in a such plastic society like south Florida.. go find a wife you aren't likely to divorce - good luck.. I want a wife, not a first wife lol

You mentioned wanting to focus on your design and professional ambitions; I will personally guarantee you you will never realize your full potential with this mindset. You have a marriage-as-goal mentality, a common AFC mental schema. Not only that, but you also have a Scarcity mentality. You're using common disqualifiers (plastic society) to make the case that you're a lone traveller in a bleak desert. Again, classic AFC schemas.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Not only that, but you also have a Scarcity mentality. You're using common disqualifiers (plastic society) to make the case that you're a lone traveller in a bleak desert. Again, classic AFC schemas.

I understand why getting rid of the scarcity mentality is preached on this forum. Typically when people think that "the pie" is only so big, they will embrace counter-productive behaviours and sabotage themselves (and maybe the people around them too).

I've seen friends jump at women who should be avoided at all costs because they think "this is my last chance!" or "it's better than nothing" or some such. Every time I have seen a man do this, it has been a disaster. By disaster, I don't mean "a bad breakup" I mean a disaster that has (legal) repercussions for years.

So yes I certainly agree the scarcity mentality is dangerous, but I don't think a false sense of optimism is the way to go. Perhaps as a crutch for a while this could make sense, but I don't see how such a delusion could be sustained over the long haul.

A steely-eyed realism would serve men much better. That way they can see how the world is AND be able to deal with it. If a man really is living in a post-apocalypse relationship wasteland then the realist in him should see that it's better to be alone than with some mutant.

But what if the man lives where women are available but he cannot get one, for whatever reason? Such a man should learn to accept the things he cannot change, the courage to change the things he can, and the wisdom to know the difference. This is all any man really can do.

Are the men of today really so weak minded they must rely on fantasy to get through their lives? Well... most people believe in god, I guess perhaps so...

 

[francheezy]

Follow up:

Actions taken afterwards:
-I drastically reduced communication. No more texting or calls. I would ignore some of her calls but would attend to others. I started to ignore some of her texts.
-Her family visited that weekend, little communication
-Monday, she was calling and left a msg asking if we would hang out during the week, I said perhaps we'll c.
-In between dates, communication is still limited but i'm starting to believe I was just used to heavier communication from past women, so I came into this expecting the same and when I didn't find it I had red flags popping up.

-I would say communication is consistent every other day, but she's always the one to start it now, I simply stopped pursuing that.

-Wednesday we went to Panera, then I took her on a surprise date to mini golf. Good times, she was wondering the whole time, and I played hard to get the whole time. Not one kiss until the end of the night, I treated it as a new first date. Eventually she pushed me against my car and planted a couple on me. I succumbed.

-Friday we agreed to hang out last night for her coworkers good bye. Holy coincidence "meet me at my place and we leave from here" So she introduced me to her overly aggressive dog who's in therapy and medicine for anger (literally). Good opening up, saying things like "well, he needs to get used to you", etc. Good stuff. I survived the dog who was trying to launch at me. I love good leashes.

-Went to the get together, effectively introducing me to her sphere. Great time for social proof, some of her coworkers and myself got into some great conversation and everything was fun and good.

-Bar afterwards, playing pool, good times. Again with two other people from that nights get together, one she told me she dated once or twice but they didn't click (really cool guy) another one she made sure i knew he was jealous because he's attracted to her but she's not. A test? who knows. So we teamed up for pool, and I told her to go with the guy that likes her (while laughing about it, almost literally pushing her into him), and I'd stick with the other guy. We lost, they won.

-Back at her place, HEAVY made out, 3rd base but she wouldn't go all the way. Fine with me. 2:30 am I called it a night.

So we've gone from last week basically stopping things, to this?

So I figure:
-If her interest level was actually low, I don't think she would be calling me or keeping communication alive on a consistent basis.
-If her interest level was low, she wouldn't refer to future events
-It's unlikely she would have asked me to come to her place
-It's even less unlikely she'd be introducing me to her circle

VERY interesting scenario. Successful turn around? Thoughts?

I'm just letting things take their course but not holding my breath.

 

[Slickster]

If she thought you were possibly gay up to this point then how attracted can she really be?

As usual I see many of the guys here over analyzing and making big generalizations based on very little information.

As always the solution is usually quite simple. You need to accurately gauge her IL. Be brutally honest with yourself and remember that actions always speak louder than words.

If you have any doubts then go for a kiss test at the appropriate time and you will most likely get your answer of whether to invest any more time in her.

 

[Jitterbug]

Going back to a woman who disrespected you as much as calling you gay and stringing you along with no sex? Nice work, you're truly turning it around.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

-Back at her place, HEAVY made out, 3rd base but she wouldn't go all the way. Fine with me. 2:30 am I called it a night.

VERY interesting scenario. Successful turn around? Thoughts?

Fill us in when you finally decide to stop dating like an adolescent on a prom date.

Your dates read like an episode of Hannah Montana.

 

[Tazman]

-Back at her place, HEAVY made out, 3rd base but she wouldn't go all the way. Fine with me. 2:30 am I called it a night.

This shouldn't be fine with you. Maybe if she had a specific reason like she was on the rag or something, but don't just say it doesn't matter and continue giving her your attention. Having a woman stop you at 3rd base because of some "rule" should annoy the hell out of you. The sad part is she knows exactly what she's doing and you're playing right into it.

She's controlling everything.