jobluek said:
Hey guys,
Just to follow up on this one and give you some feedback, I'll tell you about my experiences so far. Maybe you can help me out, or maybe I'm just confirming what has already been said.
I tried plenty of fish, because I have the perception that most of the for-pay sites are full of fake profiles and members who can't respond.
The pay-sites actually have a much better ROI than the free sites. Contrary to the perception that these sites are full of fake profiles, plenty of the very attractive girls on these sites are real people. Some AFCs assume that they must be bots b/c these girls don't respond to their e-mails, but that's not it; it's because they're busy sorting through the (literally) hundreds of e-mails they get each day. They get to be choosy, because even if they just reply to the top 1% of the 500 suitors they get each day, that's still 5 guys/day or 35 guys/week.
Sure, free sites don't require much of an investment, but at best, you'll find HB6s and a few HB7s. I refuse to use these sites b/c they're a complete waste of time; there aren't girls on them worth contacting. Although I have yet to see an HB10 on Match (and an HB10 I dated and met offline believed that online dating was for losers; naturally, I never let her know that I had tried it), I have dated a number of HB9s and HB8s on Match. The trick here is that most of these elite-looking girls are looking for marriage material; the only reason girls of this quality use online sites is because they've gotten bored of one-night stands and casual relationships (which are as easy and commonplace for them as breathing). So the problem isn't that these girls don't exist -- they most certainly do -- but they're wise to most of the tricks of the game, and you need to stand out as a man of quality.
BTW, there are a few bots out there that are attached to pictures of some HB9s and HB10s as well, but only a complete idiot would fall for them. You can tell by their generic language that they're not real people (e.g. "I enjoy fun and going to the local beach. Would you like to come?
") Even a discerning AFC wouldn't fall for them, so if you're paying attention, you won't have to deal with this.
I know there are some aspiring DJ's that insist online dating is for AFCs only. That philosophy doesn't bug me at all; the fewer competitors I have, the easier it is for me. But I see nothing wrong with going after people in both real life and online. When I'm in a club, I'm dealing with a pool of what, maybe 20-50 single girls, depending on the size of the club. If you're going after only the top 10% -- and you should never settle -- that's only 2-5 girls worth talking to. Online, there's a pool of 2,000 - 5,000 single girls within 10 miles of my house. Even if the ratio of HB9s relative to the general population is lower online -- even if it's only 2% -- that's still 40 - 100 worthwhile targets.
jobluek said:
Anyway, I've had terrible results. I've sent out probably 100 messages, and received one response. To the one I started a dialogue with, we couldn't arrange a proper time to meet because our schedules were crossed.
I normally just read the profile and pluck out something that is either a mutual interest or just interesting, then say hi and ask her about it. It's shockingly disappointing the terrible feedback (or lack thereof) that I've received.
To be honest, I think I've lost before I've started. While I'm an intelligent, successful, normal-looking guy, I'm abnormally short. When you're on the internet and are basically encouraged to be more superficial than normal, I believe it to be the instant dealbreaker. That's just my take on it, though. Please feel free to disagree, and/or help my approach.
I feel your pain. I used to have a 5% success rate with responses. It's now more like 95% (the real number is probably something like 93.2%, but I'm not going to be bothered to actually crunch the numbers). The way to make online dating work for you comes down to two words.
STAND OUT.
Back in my AFC days, I wondered why it was so hard to get someone's attention, nevertheless an actual date. After much frustration and many failed attempts, it dawned on me that I presented myself like 90% of guys out there, and thus,
no girl saw anything special about me. It's not that I wasn't special, but that I didn't draw attention to it. Most online profiles are the equivalent of "I like to hang out, watch the game, and have a great time." That may be true, but it's not special. It's like saying "I'm a carbon-based lifeform that breathes oxygen." If you seem like something common that can be taken for granted, you will be. As the saying goes, look at how picky women are with their shoes. And those are things that they are only putting on their
feet.
First, you'll need a great profile. One that stands out and captures a woman's interest. It needs to be authentic, or else you'll be exposed as a fraud within minutes of meeting, but it needs to showcase your best self.
Second, you need to contact these girls in innovative ways. If you're carpet bombing every single girl around and you're desperate to get attention from someone, it will show, and you'll get attention from almost no one. Instead, focus on sending out fewer but higher-quality e-mails. You're more likely to get some good responses. And of course, send them out to fewer but higher-quality girls. I'd rather get only 3 responses from HB9s than 30 responses from HB6s. Bear in mind that the quality girls are literally getting hundreds of e-mails per day. If she's even going to read your e-mail, you need to make sure that everything about your message, including the subject, are in the top 1% that she receives.
Lastly, ditch POF and other free sites. The quality of girls on those sites really aren't worth your time. Plus, they're not invested in the process (they're paying nothing), so they're inherently less invested in actually meeting anyone, and are much likely to flake. Some girls only use sites like POF as hotornot-esque ego boosts. ("OMG! Look at how badly all these boys want me! I must be a hawt-T!") But if she's paying $20/month or more to find quality guys, then chances are that
she's looking for quality guys. The only challenge is to make sure you're better quality than the competition. And given the quality of most men these days, that's easier than it sounds.
I recommend Match over eHarmony. At least Match lets you screen out traits you don't want in a girl, including things like age, whether or not she has children, and body type (hint: "Curvy" = "Fat, but in denial about it"). eHarmony tries to force its users to find spiritual connections between each other. Match lets you determine what you're looking for, and helps you find it. The rest is up to you.
