Martial Arts

white cloud 8

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Hi,

I am beginning to think seriously about doing martial arts (for mental/physical well being) as well as knowledge for self defense. I was considering possibly mixed martial arts but, a form moreso along the lines of incorporating balance, speed, strength, agility, endurance? I was possibly thinking of Muay Thai but, also learning how to grapple (submissions).

Any Suggestions?



-thanks
 

protienpowder

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Grappling is the best way to take out someone thats much bigger/stronger than you are. Im 125 lbs and people who are 170-190 lbs are helpless when I get them on their back. If you have a naturually powerfull punch, then I'd reccomend boxing/muy thai.
 

Zerix

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Muay Thai will turn your arms and legs into steel. Guaranteed (if you stay dedicated). :rockon:
 

white cloud 8

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theory of knowledge said:
muay thai is extreme contact, some people might not be able to handle it.
I did Muay Thai for half a year, it was intense (made me much more tougher).
 

Spiky

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I used to fight in the ring with muay thai, definitely made me a tougher person. However, one of the most fundamental things i learned from my trainer was that you absolutely HAVE to work out in the gym as well as train.

Remember that the ring and the street are very different places. On the street you go psycho and let rip. If you do that in the ring your opponent will just cover up untill you tire and then take you out.

Grappeling is good in one-on-one situations but when confronted by a group you want to be thinking about the fastest way you can escape, not about takedowns and submissions.
 

grr

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With that logic we should all become sprinters.
 

iLoveCookies

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Well I hope you set aside some time for whatever you are going to try. You really can't skip the gym when participating in either. You will have to still go. I find muay thai far harder than BJJ I rolled around once a week for a couple months and managed to learn alot, muay thai is infact a little harder to learn. You kind of have to learn how to punch and kick, throw elbows and knees properly and also check kicks and move around so I think BJJ is easier than MT and as far as self defense. Just dont fight.
 

Spike_the_Dragon

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kali, krav mega, jkd, ect. Just stay away from karate and the like unless you're only interested in the 'sport' aspect of the martial arts.
 

darp

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I've been spending the last few months working on getting back in shape using a combination of crossfitting and BJJ. I think you'll definitely see the benefit of after about a month. Not to mention they compliment each other like a glove. BJJ is not only practical for most street fighting situation(prey they don't happen) but its also very easy to be good at with dedication. B.J. Penn (UFC Fighter) is the perfect example. I think he black belted through Gracie Academy in less than 2 years, and now he's know as one of the best BJJ's in fighting today. You defintely get the workout aspect of it because you'll do HOURS and HOURS of "rolling" and even though you'll wanna die afterwards (no matter how well in shape you are...the first time sucks) you'll always look foward to the sparring cause you'll see yourself get better every class. Thats why BJJ is the most dominant fighting style on this earth, because unlike most "arts" they actually spar against each other on a constant basis...and in doing so they end up with a more realist concept of fighting. That is something Karate cannot duplicate

~darp~
 

typical

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Zerix said:
Muay Thai will turn your arms and legs into steel. Guaranteed (if you stay dedicated). :rockon:
Yep thats right, and whenever your confronted with some losers who want to whoop your butt, you can either talk your way out of it (first choice), but if it does turn ugly, then you dont want to go to ground. 1 on 1 yes going to ground works but in most situations going to ground is gonna mean you get your butt raped by 4 or 5 guys. Take out the first guy as quick, hard and fast no mercy, the rest will back off, but try to never let it get that far :)

But do whatever you like its your choice, you stay in it long enough and you'll get really really good at it, I'm just a beginner at muay thai, and its intense love it. Its amazing when you see some of these small guys get in the ring for sparing and man they can take and give hits.
 

realsmoothie

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I'm interested in some kind of confidence-building self-defense. I'm wondering what kind of style fits me.

The thing is, I am 5'11" and 145 lbs. Not very strong, but have just recently started going to the gym. Is there a style that might be more appropriate than others?

I am initially attracted to jujitsu because it is more defensive and based on getting your opponent to submit. I like that Buddhist pacifist crap ;)

I was also wondering about simple boxing... I'm also feeling it might be good to punch the crap out of something (agressions OUT) and learn how to take a punch.

Someone fill me in.
 

Eccentric

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realsmoothie said:
I'm interested in some kind of confidence-building self-defense. I'm wondering what kind of style fits me.

The thing is, I am 5'11" and 145 lbs. Not very strong, but have just recently started going to the gym. Is there a style that might be more appropriate than others?

I am initially attracted to jujitsu because it is more defensive and based on getting your opponent to submit. I like that Buddhist pacifist crap ;)

I was also wondering about simple boxing... I'm also feeling it might be good to punch the crap out of something (agressions OUT) and learn how to take a punch.

Someone fill me in.
Yes, try to find a "credited" Jeet Kune Do school. Our Sifu learned from Kevin Seamen. He learned it from Dan Inosanto, who learned directly under Bruce Lee. Make sure it's JKD concepts, you'll gain more.

While I agree that Muay Thai and BJJ are good, you can learn the same and more with JKD. I also agree with what someone said in here... Grappling isn't enough. As a sport yes, as self defense no. One simple reason, as badly as you're going to hurt or disable your opponent, the second you take him to the ground his friends are going to beat the **** out of you. I don't care who you are, if you get kicked in the ribs or in the face, you're done.

But back to JKD. You learn under the basic guidelines, but you're free to change them as you see fit. If it doesn't work, don't use it. With traditional karate, you're taught "animal" forms to fight off an attack. Have you ever been in a real street fight? Neither have I. But I know that they're over pretty quick if you A) Know what you're doing or B) Don't know what you're doing.

This is why you see a lot "karate" guys get their ass handed to them in a street fight vs a guy who knows how to bob and weave, and follow through with some good punches. The other stuff is too restrictive of the mind. Good in tournaments where you're facing someone of equal experience. But in the real world, you have no idea of what the other guy is capable of.

I another post I stated that my school incorporates Kung Fu, Boxing, Muay Thai, Ju-Jitsu, Aikido, Filipino Kali (weapons), Wrestling, and Judo. People are quick to discredit JKD, and they're main statement is "If it's so great, why isn't it in UFC." Well UFC is a tournament, not a walk home where someone trys to mug you. At the seminars, we see a lot of SWAT instructors, military, and police officers. They're there for JKD/Krav Maga. The truth is you can be as brutal or as forgiving as you want, but they put a strong emphasis that there is no "fair fight" when you're in danger. Deception will play a huge part in your favor. I'm a small guy, 5'10" about 140 lbs. I'm not jacked, but fit. People would look at me and think weakling. I think to myself "Make a mistake with me, I dare ya." ;)

For instance, the trapping aspect of Kung Fu. You basically look for holes in his defense and exploit them. Find the hole, and land your attack. Not many people put their hands and arms up in the guard position expecting one to be disabled while he gets clobbered with a backfist, hook, jab, elbow, whatever.

See where deception plays into your favor? It's really a leathal shock and awe. Or how if a guy grabs your shirt, like he's holding you in place so he can land a ghetto hook. When he does that, you can pop him easily, or break out the Aikido and introduce him to a wrist lock. Trust me, he'll let go faster than you applied it.

I know this may sound harsh. But you have to be willing to really hurt people. I don't mean going out and looking for it. But if you do find your self in a situation one day, you have to think "ok is this guy going to get up and pull a gun on me?" If he attacks you, you have every right to ensure your safety. Better safe than sorry.

Make no mistake about JKD. It's not ment to be fancy, or something to show off to your friends (well some aspects are ok.) It's deceptive, it's quick, it's brutal, and it will provide you with self defense in all aspects. There are no belts, uniforms, or tournaments. Although they do train with contact. Best of all, it's very easy to learn and beginner friendly. After my first week I felt that I learned more than I did studying Kenpo for 3 years.
 

grr

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How ironic. I was found this link on sherdog today:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=276280
http://www.fightfind.com/component/o...119/Itemid,26/

I also read www.bullshido.com. Since SoSuave doesn't have a Martial Arts section I don't feel bad about spamming other MMA specific sites.

It helped me find a realistic MMA school near me ( http://www.fightfind.com/mtree/Acad...lorado/Loveland_Martial_Arts_Academy/details/ ) that I'm taking my first class in, in about 1/2 an hour.

Like the BJJ guy said, what you guys may not realize is, its not hard to find a school that will teach you balance, phys ed., etc. Its hard to find one that actually spars, which in all reality is what better prepares you for self defense.. : )

That's one of the reason so many people choose schools that AT LEAST teach jiu-jitsu. That almost requires rolling for an hour or so every night which will get you in good shape and good 1v1 skills.

Basically Muay Thai, GOOD karate like Kyokushin and even Shotokan, Judo, JKD, Jiu-jitsu, boxing, and kickboxing are the keywords you want to look for when looking at your choices.
 

YoungJuan

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From being a distinguished martial artist in the US for several years, by looking down at the list you've written for the type of martial art that you want to practice. I'd say go for Hapkido, it has a mixture of kicking and quick hand motions practiced in taekwondo while still using grappling and submission techniques from Judo. THe best of both worlds.
 

jjasc

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I did traditional karate (shotokan) for 6 years. I strongly advise you to stay away from any sort of karate, taekwondo or kung-fu. It's likely to get your ass killed in a real fight.

The problem with karate/kungfu is that most schools don't train realistically; by this I mean, many many dojos never spar, or when they do spar, they point-spar (point sparring is very very far removed from real fighting). You basically dance around "touching" the other guy.

You also spend endless amounts of time working on kata (a sort of "dance" where you use various combinations of techniques to "practice" your style). Basically, with traditional martial arts, you aren’t learning how to fight; you're learning a garbage truck full of worthless tradition.

Many many karate schools have degenerated into what we call Mcdojos (only about the money). You have blackbelts given away like candy, fat instructors who pretend they know how to fight, secret techniques that will "kill with a single punch. etc).

And don't get me started on taekwondo(TKD), akido or hapkido.

Want to see how TKD performs against mauy thai?

http://www.youtube.com/w/Tkd-vs-muay-thai?v=sC-bGwYjjlQ&search=muay thai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-q-F9l_0vI&search=Troy Miller


If you want to learn how to really fight, I advise you to find a REPUATABLE MMA(mixed martial art) school and train. MMA is basically real fighting with all the bull**** stripped out. It's been tested (UFC, PRIDE, etc) time and time again and shown to be brutally effective. Wonder why the MMA arenas such as PRIDE and UFC don't feature karate or kungfu fighters? Because they all got filtered out in the early days of the UFC. The traditional martial art fighters basically got their asses kicked to the moon.

Now I'm not saying all karate is worthless. Kenkyoshin(sp?) karate is pretty effective, as they train full contact.

With MMA, you train realistically (full contact against a person who is fully resisting) and you learn both standup (Mauy Thai) and ground (grappling). Oh, you also end up with an amazing cardio vascular system.

So MMA is your best bet; if you can't do MMA, then I recommend Mauy Thai (very effective for standup, you get super conditioned, real fight matches (not bull **** point sparring) that toughen the Sh** out of you) or BJJ (kick ass on the ground, but you will get your ass owned if you end up fighting someone for real if his buddies are standing around).

MMA is basically BJJ + Mauy Thai with Wrestling thrown in. And of course, MMA emphasizes putting into practice what you learn (cage fights!!).
 

grr

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The more I think about it, the more I start to believe the only reason traditional schools can't be effective is because they don't actually spar.

After all, Shotokan karate is a father MA of Kyokushin, isn't it? Also I did some research on Hapkido after it was recommended by YoungJuan. Doesn't look bad, your chances of running into a McDojo is pretty good, but the style itself doesn't look bad at all from the testimonials I read.

Oh and I did BJJ for the first time at that dojo I posted about yesterday. We rolled or "freestyled" at the end of class and I held my own pretty good, almost got a submission. : ) They did MMA training this morning and though their Ad doesn't say it, their kickboxing is based on Muay Thai, not Kajukenbo - which appears to be more of a money-maker for them. The Kajukenbo people were ages 14-50 co-ed whereas all the BJJ guys were 17-25 males.

Some little kid started that day with us, too. Poor little bugga, hopefully he sticks with it.
 

MuayThai

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Grappling and wresleting isn't any good for street fighting, you fall down you get stompt on.

Muay thai is excellent for stand up fighting. The power and speed is incomparable, in all forms of stand up fighting muay thai dominates again and again.

MMA e.g. cross training muay thai and jujitsu is a pain in the ass. It's slow and hard and will take along time. I know because i'e done it before took a break and have started again.

If you want some experianced advice, go with muay thai untill you start getting good (6-8 months if you do it twice a week) and then do grappling and submissions.

Good luck.
 
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