marriage is a dying idea?

[zekko]

It's not marriage that scares me, it's divorce. And all the sh*t that happens afterward.

That's pretty much the way I feel about it. And no matter how alpha you are, or how hard you screen, whether or not you get divorced is out of your hands. If she decided to divorce you for whatever reasons she may have, she can do it.

Marriage isn't dying, it's being murdered. Right now, there just isn't any advantage in it for the male. I have too many assets I need to protect, and I have my own plan in place, I can't risk it on getting married.

If you have children, I think the nuclear family is the best way for them to grow up. Unfortunately, having children with a woman indentures you to her moreso than marriage even. It's a damn shame.

 

[zekko]

I agree Judge. A financial, emotional mess (if you're a man, that is; if you're a woman, divorce is likely going to end up as a financial success).

Yep. If women can collect different ex husbands, they are basically collecting different income streams. Same thing if she can collect baby daddies. The poor schmuck is on the hook until the kid graduates college, and at worst the state will pay her to support the kid and give her tax breaks.

If my financial advisor approached me and said, "You should invest everything that you have into this stock. It has a 50% fail rate, but everybody invests in it anyway," I'd hire another advisor.

And yep. It's a bad investment, and a bad risk. And even prenups won't necessarily help you since they can be thrown out on a judge's whim.

 

[latinnova]

In the states child support is typically over when the kid turns 18, or graduates high school.

Prenups are a nice idea, but judges have the discretion to throw the pre-nup out the window, and that is usually what happens. So that nice, neat insurance blanket that you set up to protect your assets in case the marriage fails, is just an illusion.

 

[Epimanes]

Well as many of you know, I have been married for 16 years and with my wife for 20 years coming up on Oct.5th. Some of the time I have been very unhappy and some of it I have been extremely happy. A lot of ups and downs.. But thankfully both of us resisted temptation during our downs and both of us got out of the rut and have built some upwards momentum that has been 2 steps forward and one step back.. But continously moving up. Its a lot of work tho.. And you have to put your marriage in front of the kids.

What people don't often realize when kids are involved is that "takIng care of children means taking care of eachother". Kids are proven more stable and successful in 2 parent homes where the parents are maintaining their relationship.

My wife and I are christians and promised god we would find a way to make it work to avoid repeating history in our families. There is NO other reason to get married unless your plan on making that promise of commitment to GOD that your gunna BOTH do your best to have a happy life together and face all your challenges together.

If you don't believe in god.. Then there's no point in getting married.. Besides in BC if your living together for 2 years the gov considers you married and you both share the debts/assets accumulated during that time.

Epi

Edit: I have marriage builders, sosuave, and marriedmansex life to thank for the forward relationship momentum. After all "Doing what you have always done, gets you what you have always gotten" so if you don't like something that's going on.. No one can change anyone, you can only change yourself and hope it changes their response to you.

 

[Epimanes]

Epimanes I've always regarded you as a solid guy, from what I know about you via your posts here on SS. You seem exceptional to me in that you're actually content enough in your marriage.

I respectfully ask you, Why did you rely on the church and the state to proclaim the legitimacy of your relationship to your wife? I know you believe in God. But you still want the church and the state to "officially" proclaim your relationship? Also, I don't read the Bible much, but didn't Jesus say to avoid taking oaths? To paraphrase: "Let your yes mean yes? And your no mean no?"

I personally see no reason for formal proclamations and oaths. Especially one that decrees "for life."

Why not co-habitate and raise children without involving the church and the state? If you asked God, then it's between you, your wife, and God only right?

That's a good question Espi, and I agree. I have to tell you this though. I didn't become christian until many years after I married. There was a series of dreams (visions?), world events(this revolved around sept 11th stuff) and an inner calling that brought me to jesus. Call it "fire insurance". That's another story though.

And just to clairify.. I'm christian but NOT religious. Being christian is about believing in what's already been done to get to heaven. Being religious is about Doing the right things to get to heaven. No one is or will ever be good enough so that's why jesus was sent. Anyhow...

So.. to answer your original question. I got married because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. My wife (then gf) was preggo. She was 17/18 and we were living together. In both our minds we were already married. My wifes mom was one of those "in your face I'm better than you bible thumping cram it down your throat" christians. In other words.. Religious. (Notice how I'm already living with her daughter at this point? Hmm some christian.. But who am I to judge?).

When it came time to tell the family.. My wifes mom was irrate... Embarrassed that her daughter was pregnant out of wedlock. She pretty much pushed us into it to make herself look better in the eyes of her church. It sucked, but like I said earlier in OUR minds we were already married and had promised eachother to make things work and have eachothers best interests at heart. So we agreed to get married.. Sign a few papers and make it official. Could care less what the "church" wanted.. And like you said "let your yes be yes and your no be no" we in our minds were already married and promised god so figured no biggie.

My wife and I both saved eachother from our hell holes, got part time after school jobs to pay rent while trying to graduate at the same time.. And figured it must have been some act of god that kept us together and allowed us to beat the odds. And here we are.. Almost exactly 20 years later.. A lot of ups and downs but momentum is moving up very rapidly. My wifes mother is now on her 3rd marriage and we no longer speak to her cuz of how that went down.

Would I marry now if I was single? Likely not. Far too many people don't share the same moral standards I do.. My wife does though and that's what's got us through the tough times. Glad I stuck It out. My kids are happier for it and my marriage improves constantly now that the kids need us less as they get older. Thankfully I will have many years left ahead of me when my nest empties and my marriage is still intact cuz we didn't fall into temptation for fleeting love of a new relationship that would also need its grass cut and weeds pulled out to maintain.


Fvck.. I could go on and on here... So I will stop lol.

Epi

 

[Epimanes]

Crazy huh? .... I know.

Thanks espi.

 

[zekko]

I find a courtroom is designed to intimidate and belittle people, especially men. It all starts with being asked to stand when the judge enters the room.

Agreed, and a lot of judges turn into megalomaniacs, too. They have ultimate power in their courtrooms, and we all know power corrupts.

The state tries to validate your relationship, and once you choose to allow the state to legitimize your association with a woman, you're screwed, because now you've given the state the express authority to de-legitimize your relationship.

Yep, you're not marrying a woman, you're marrying a woman + the state. You're giving the state the authority to redistribute your assets and belongings. Specifically, you're giving them the authority to give her your stuff if she grows tired of you.

In my mind, Oprah Winfrey is not an attractive woman (and never has been, even when "skinny"); but she is smart. She's been with the same guy for 20 years but she's never married him. And what do you know? The guy has stayed with her the entire time and rode the gravy train. THAT is how I choose to live my life.

That's pretty much how I am living. I've been cohabitating with my girlfriend for close to 11 years now. But I won't be marrying her, I've been married once and I learned my lesson. I figured I would try it once. Actually, I very much enjoyed being married, except for that last year when everything went to sh!t. Fortunately, I live in a no common law state. So if my girlfriend decides to go bang some other guy, she'll only be leaving with the stuff she brought.

Being religious is about Doing the right things to get to heaven

I don't believe that is accurate. I've heard Christians say that, but I've never heard the word religion defined that way anywhere else. Religion is simply a belief system. I can see why they say that, though. Almost everyone seems to hate religion. It's their way of denying that Christianity is a religion. I think religion gets a bad rap. Replace the word with spirituality, and you don't get so much hate.

Congrats on the 16 years of marriage, Epimanes. Funny thing, most of the people I know who have been married the longest also got married when they were very young. I thought that I was increasing my odds by waiting until my early 30s, but apparently that didn't work.

 

[Epimanes]

Anyone can be religious about anything zekko. I could be religious about tv.. Or drugs.. Or prostitutes. Saying I'm religious doesn't necessarily mean anything about church or faith. So I agree... Spiritual is a better word.

 

[zekko]

I personally have yet to understand fully what "spiritual" even means. "Spirit"? yes. "Spirited"? yes.

But "spiritual", when defined as one's belief in god? No.

I would say that "spiritual", for those who believe in God, means that you can see the spirit that is behind the material. Or at least that you acknowledge that there is a spirit behind what is material. The common denominator among most religions is that they believe that there is more to the universe and more going on than what you can see with the eye.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

As a brief aside, here’s what I have observed about the wedding day itself;

COST

-Non-wedding venue hire – A local high end bar advertises catering for ‘Private Events’ on their website.
-Wedding venue hire – The same website advertises catering for weddings, suggesting that the service and therefore the prices are essentially different.

-A dress – 100 (I imagine, for a decent gown)
-A wedding dress – Seemingly infinite price

-A suit – 100 (200-300 for a tailored number)
-A grooms suit (probably 100 for hire, but you obviously need 3 or more of them matching for your groomsmen, as ‘tradition’ dictates)

-A cake – Most expensive, advertised by unnamed supermarket = 65
-A wedding cake (from the same supplier) – most expensive = 349, basically 3 similar/identical cakes of descending size, stacked on top of each other (you do the maths)

-A three course meal (including drinks and coffee) - 40 per head
-A wedding breakfast – 140 per head (according to the rates that a friend of mine is about to pay)

I could go on. But basically, stick the word ‘wedding’ in front of anything for it to at least double (usually triple) in price.

 

[zekko]

The common denominator that I see with various faiths or religions or whatever is, Their way is the ONLY way. i.e. if you don't believe in their religion, then you're going to hell, etc. Wars have been fought over this.

That sounds very much like "organized religion" to me. I have a very, very, very hard time relating to people who do not think for themselves and just believe everything that an organization tells them, in the exact way that they tell them. I consider myself a Christian, but I think that my beliefs are entirely unique to me. I filter everything through my own unique experiences and therefore have my own unique interpretations. It absolutely astounds me that everyone does not do this, but rather live by a set of interpretations given to them by someone else.

Even in regard to seduction theory, I question and weigh everything and then decide whether I believe it to be true or not, based on my own experiences and observations. That has gotten me into trouble with some here from time to time. Some people simply believe every "red pill" statement that they are fed: "Roissy says this, therefore it must be true". But I firmly believe no one has the whole truth, myself included.

 

[The_411]

Religions were essentially developed to be various versions of creation stories. The problem is that they morphed from that concept into series of moral guidelines and from those moral guidelines came fear mongering and absolutism as form of massive mind control.

Organized religion does have positive aspects but only when the individual constantly challenges the beliefs and is accepting that the religious canon is merely one perspective.

Unfortunately, most people are afraid to step out and are afraid to be non
conformist for fear of some conceptualized "afterlife" or "eternal damnation"

This is coming from a guy who grew up with a Jewish mother and Catholic father and stands as an agnostic.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Well I do see myself getting married actually. But I also see my wife asking me the question "What would you do if I cheated on you?" and I would smile at her and ask if she did and I would play it in a way where she would tell me if she did or not. I would have a feeling that there is somebody but she hasn't done anything with yet. Anyway, she would ask again that same question and I would say "If you cheated on my, I would kill the man you cheated on me with, and I would kill you." And i would say it almost nonchalantly. And I would mean it too. If my wife cheated on me, I would kill her and the guy she was with without a care in the world. Not only that but I would hide the evidence and go about my merry way as if nothing happened so no, I wouldn't feel guilt either.

Call me crazy, but I realized that was why my mom never cheated on my dad. My dad was one of the most beta dudes I have ever known. But cheating? That's when his inner Jeffrey Dahmer comes out. And my mom knows it too which is why she never has and never will cheat

 

[mikey2012]

Well I do see myself getting married actually. But I also see my wife asking me the question "What would you do if I cheated on you?" and I would smile at her and ask if she did and I would play it in a way where she would tell me if she did or not. I would have a feeling that there is somebody but she hasn't done anything with yet. Anyway, she would ask again that same question and I would say "If you cheated on my, I would kill the man you cheated on me with, and I would kill you." And i would say it almost nonchalantly. And I would mean it too. If my wife cheated on me, I would kill her and the guy she was with without a care in the world. Not only that but I would hide the evidence and go about my merry way as if nothing happened so no, I wouldn't feel guilt either.

Call me crazy, but I realized that was why my mom never cheated on my dad. My dad was one of the most beta dudes I have ever known. But cheating? That's when his inner Jeffrey Dahmer comes out. And my mom knows it too which is why she never has and never will cheat

Thats coz u beta. Like father like son.

 

[adam225]

As a brief aside, here’s what I have observed about the wedding day itself;

COST

-Non-wedding venue hire – A local high end bar advertises catering for ‘Private Events’ on their website.
-Wedding venue hire – The same website advertises catering for weddings, suggesting that the service and therefore the prices are essentially different.

-A dress – 100 (I imagine, for a decent gown)
-A wedding dress – Seemingly infinite price

-A suit – 100 (200-300 for a tailored number)
-A grooms suit (probably 100 for hire, but you obviously need 3 or more of them matching for your groomsmen, as ‘tradition’ dictates)

-A cake – Most expensive, advertised by unnamed supermarket = 65
-A wedding cake (from the same supplier) – most expensive = 349, basically 3 similar/identical cakes of descending size, stacked on top of each other (you do the maths)

-A three course meal (including drinks and coffee) - 40 per head
-A wedding breakfast – 140 per head (according to the rates that a friend of mine is about to pay)

I could go on. But basically, stick the word ‘wedding’ in front of anything for it to at least double (usually triple) in price.

What a waste....

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Thats coz u beta. Like father like son.

Agreed.

Cop two life sentences for knocking off two people who, from that point onward, mean absolutely nothing to me?... Nah, y'alright. The big man walks away and starts a new harem of hotter broads right in her face.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Thats coz u beta. Like father like son.

Maybe I didn't elaborate enough. I would only do that if I had kids already. If not I don't really care. Get divorced and be done with it all. But if I did have kids, it would be a big deal to me because she is gonna have another man in there and that would ruin the family and the kids would be fvcked up to all hell. I don't even need to explain why. And because she is willing to ruin the lives of others (granted, it's her own damn kids!), have their lives hit the bottom and get buried beneath society, then she doesn't deserve to live (MY preference anyway). And the thing is, she wouldn't even realize what her actions have done, much less cared about it either.

Eastern cultures do the same as what I would do. Hence why cheating is so rare over there. And if you say that is screwed up, then that is modern day western society telling you that it is. Modern day society also promotes chivalry and feminism too. You gonna agree with that?

Anyway, it doesn't matter because I doubt that a girl will really cheat on a guy if he is the best guy around.

 

[latinnova]

"If you cheated on my, I would kill the man you cheated on me with, and I would kill you." And i would say it almost nonchalantly. And I would mean it too. If my wife cheated on me, I would kill her and the guy she was with without a care in the world. Not only that but I would hide the evidence and go about my merry way as if nothing happened so no, I wouldn't feel guilt either.

And this, my fellow Don Juan's, is why you should never, ever, cheat with a women that is married. First off, you are a piece of shi!t for doing so, and second of all, well, you have the nonchalant murderer who will wash his hands of the murder like he washed his hands after making a sandwich and will think nothing of it. Pu$$y is not worth the price of death.

 

[Big Nuts]

Marriage for men is soul death.