Man Vs. Monkey!!

[Last Man Standing]

My model is based purely on scientific reasoning and research.

So do you believe we were created by a god, always existed and always will or do you not concern yourself with such questions?

Humans are creator beings - we create a human form that is greater than it's fluid substances (sperm and egg). From this fluid substance we create organs that work in unison to keep us in a state of life. This liquid substance even creates a hard substance that we call bones, and an outer form we call skin, which house and support the internal organs. Not only this - but it also creates a brain which has thought and reasoning ,and emotions and intricacies that go beyond the physical look of the sperm and the egg.

What is intriguing is that, not only does the liquid sperm create bones and organs, but it creates thought as well. Not just think about this - we have a liquid substance called sperm that creates us, a human life form, that is the highest form on this planet regarding dominance over the other life forms. How does an an seemingly insignificant liquid, when spilled outside of the womb, have so much power and force when inseminated into the womb? And it is not fruitful anywhere else unless it fertilizes an egg - the egg of a woman - and a woman only - and not with of any other species - it will not bear fruit! So it must be in the design of the sexual organs and the designated function of the sperm and egg that makes us human

Look around you - look at all the man made things that make our life more abundant, materially at least. All this came from sperm!!! I know it is a crazy way to look at it but this is the reality!! Thank sperm for all that you have because it is the originator of your life and many and all inanimate objects around you. Why say sperm instead of man? Because we are trying to get to the root of the matter, at the most basic form. Now obviously sperm doesn't build bridges, houses, or computers, but it is THE source which made our brains and hands that did the work!! The brain gives us thought, and thoughts gives us reason. So sperm is at the root of thought and reason! Yes, the sperm is the father of civilization and NOT Man!!! How could this be? Because it, the sperm, has all the instructions contained within - a code. Not just any code but a code that generates thought! Now we are creating robots with codes as well, and the scientist say they will one day be able to learn, but they are limited to the original inputs and parameters given and cannot have thought! These robots and software are made by man - a sentient thinking being - but the robots will never have a soul because a soul cannot be made by man. So if we see a robot we know that there is a greater designer who gave it instruction - electrical instruction - so who gave our sperm its' instruction?

Well, some conscientious being greater than us!!! But wait - we don't just have a physical form, as robots do, but we have thoughts and and a soul, a spirit. So the coding within the sperm goes beyond the robots because we have a spirit as well - so our creator who designed us must also have a spirit, since it is the author of the sperm which gives us life!! Can one program a thing with what one does not have any knowledge of? No! God is the Supreme programmer of all! Can you see the logic here? This has nothing to do with religion, and has everything to do with rational thought, which we humans have and which animals do not have!!

 

[Last Man Standing]

Continued...

Every people/culture on the planet on every continent who never had contact with one another (even native americans in the western hemisphere) all believed in a greater spirit beyond themselves. This is a fact and it is due to our genetic instruction which is the author of thought, and in this thought, we envision our creator, since the sperm and egg created thought, and thought creates a vision of a superior being from peoples who never had contact with each other, then this tells us that we know God through our genetic instruction embedded in the sperm, -- it is given to us! For example - knowing right and wrong is not taught - it is our genetic make-up that predicates our morals. Children know when they are doing something wrong and they hide away from their parents because they know that their action is not right and punishment will be the result - every wrongdoing has it's price!! Music - babies dance when they hear music and yet they never saw an adult dance! How so? Because music is ingrained in our DNA to move to a rhythm. Do dogs/animals dance to this musical frequency? No! So this separates us from animals as well!

The male and female are complementary - so if we are a random act then how did it create a duality that is needed to further propagate life, and why not just be an asexual organism to replicate life? And not only this miracle of chance of dual natures at the physical organ level (two organs that are created to bring forth life), but it made our male and female natures as well - which is not a physical construct but one at the spirit level!! This is the crux of the mater to understand - we are not merely flesh and blood, but we are spirits as well, or what we call soul.

Since we don't know everything, then of course this is faith-based, the same as evolution that is not proven is faith based, and thus it should be categorized as a religion as well!

It is bizarre that some believe we came from apes - why can't we be separately created from apes, as all other species? I guess birds and plants came from apes too. It is because it would destroy their agenda of deceit!!

I didn't even get into the natural environment, with the sun acting in unison with the earth and producing all that is need to sustain our existence - random act or intelligent design? Well again - an intelligent design has an intelligent creator!! This is mere reasoning that is not taught to our children in public schools, and for good reason - because it will demolish the false premises and conclusions propagated by the creators of The Matrix!!

Now how does this relate to us on this forum? Well, it relates to my thread The Natural Order Of Things. There is a natural order and harmony to our existence as men and women, as our genetics dictate, and when this order is artificially manipulated by man then you can expect an unnatural order to take fruit and chaos to be the result - thus our current state of affairs!!

 

[Nighthawk]

Where is your rationale for the basis of evolution?

There were some moths who lived in a forest somewhere. Then man-made pollution made the trees blacker and the light-coloured ones didn't blend in so well and were eaten by birds. The ones with darker-wing genes survived and thrived. Evolution.

Then man decided to do something about pollution, passed some laws, and the trees weren't so black. Then the lighter-winged moths became less visible again, the darker-winged ones fared less well, and again the species evolved to it's circumstances and survived. Or maybe God changed the wing colour because He cares so much.

I can illustrate how two plus two equals four too, but you can probably dance around the facts if you are determined enough.

 

[Nighthawk]

Dogs don't dance! Take that, Darwin!

 

[Deep Dish]

Where is your rationale for the basis of evolution?

What a loaded question. The rationale behind evolution is self-evident and thoroughly demonstrated. There is no genuine debate among academics of if evolution occurred but rather how; was it along the lines of what Richard Dawkins proposes, incremental evolution in progressive complexity, or rather more along the lines of Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium where simplicity rules. (The world has always been and always will be ruled by bacteria and viruses, where simplicity is king.) So, the question is why do people deny it. I think I know why, probably better than you realize yourself, but you do not hold my intellectual respect and as such I will not explain why.

 

[Obsidian]

There were some moths who lived in a forest somewhere. Then man-made pollution made the trees blacker and the light-coloured ones didn't blend in so well and were eaten by birds. The ones with darker-wing genes survived and thrived. Evolution.

This type of argument is another common tactic among evolutionists. You are actually correct; evolution has been proven. Evolution simply means a change in the percentages of alleles within a population over time. What you described is usually called "microevolution" and makes perfect sense.

But in your example, the moths already had the capability to be either black or white. The pollution didn't suddenly create a new black gene that allowed moths to change. As a debating tactic, evolutionists use this type of word manipulation to persuade. They bring out this kind of proof for moth "evolution" and thereby "prove" their entire theory, even though their entire theory is far more expansive than your moth example. The entire theory goes much farther, advocating that new useful genes get created over time due to genetic mutations. Then these profitable mutations supposedly survive due to survival of the fittest, creating new species and new body organs.

But despite popular misconception, that part of the theory is far from proven.

Show me an observed example of new productive organs being formed through genetic mutation, and you'll probably convince me.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

LMS, you have a real thing for sperm don't you? You know what they say about those who shout the loudest, right?

Me thinks he doth protest too much,..

OK, joking aside and in all honesty, I'm of the opinion that evolution and a belief in God are not mutually exclusive. I am an artist (or a creator being if you prefer) and I have firm belief in God which is why I can appreciate the beauty of, and the exceptional efficiency of, an ever-changing and ever-EVOLVING biosphere. I don't see a disconnect in this at all; God is the "why" evolution is the "how."

Here's a book suggestion: Finding Darwin's God by Ken Miller.

It's a great read, not so technical to bore you, and pretty funny at times.

 

[ketostix]

This type of argument is another common tactic among evolutionists. You are actually correct; evolution has been proven. Evolution simply means a change in the percentages of alleles within a population over time. What you described is usually called "microevolution" and makes perfect sense.

But in your example, the moths already had the capability to be either black or white. The pollution didn't suddenly create a new black gene that allowed moths to change. As a debating tactic, evolutionists use this type of word manipulation to persuade. They bring out this kind of proof for moth "evolution" and thereby "prove" their entire theory, even though their entire theory is far more expansive than your moth example. The entire theory goes much farther, advocating that new useful genes get created over time due to genetic mutations. Then these profitable mutations supposedly survive due to survival of the fittest, creating new species and new body organs.

But despite popular misconception, that part of the theory is far from proven.

Show me an observed example of new productive organs being formed through genetic mutation, and you'll probably convince me.

Good point adaptation doesn't explain origin. Evolutionist are really saying that complex order (life, genetic code, etc.) originated from random chemicals in a random enviroment. Yet even in a laboratory scientist can't produce a living viable cell from the base chemicals. Besides any order that is created naturally tends to devolve into disorder not evolve. Plus every species is unique, and can't be mated with another species. If evolution worked the way evolutionist required then it seems like there be a whole continuum of steps between the current species.

LMS sort of has a point in that each species has it's own distinct seed or genetic code. And that's the only thing that can create life. It sure looks like to me that some intelligent designer is designing these complete and distinct codes.

 

[wolf116]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAXeVFeHwEA&feature=related
A very interesting series on sexual evolution.

Watch all 6 and then tell me evolution is bogus.

Has anyone watched these yet? Well worth it. The first isn't that great but they do get really good.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

<<<<< This just in... >>>>>>>

It appears that an ongoing investigation by the gossip magazine TMZ has uncovered a secret love affair going on between certain members of the "scientific" community and the secretary of the "banana" republic!

....CAUGHT ON TAPE!!!!!!!

 

[KarmaSutra]

Leave it to Victory to bring some much needed humor to this discussion.

"You damned dirty apes!"

 

[Aboleo]

OK, joking aside and in all honesty, I'm of the opinion that evolution and a belief in God are not mutually exclusive. I am an artist (or a creator being if you prefer) and I have firm belief in God which is why I can appreciate the beauty of, and the exceptional efficiency of, an ever-changing and ever-EVOLVING biosphere. I don't see a disconnect in this at all; God is the "why" evolution is the "how."

Very well said.

 

[wootapotky]

Evolution is NOT a FACT. It is NOT A FACT. I had a physics teacher that was talking about this a couple years back that Biologists and Chemists like to say that it is a fact but that in no ways whatsoever is it a fact (I will also qualify his statement by adding that he is an atheist and found the religious people in my class to be highly amusing). First of all, macroevolution is not observable. Microevolution is. But Macroevolution is just an extrapolation of Micro.

Scientists like to say that evolution is a fact like gravity, to which my teacher guffawed. Gravity, in the sense of explaining the reasons why it happens, IS a theory. However, the act that gravity performs, is an OBSERVABLE and REPEATABLE FACT. Evolution is not. It is a THEORY that explains well how life got to be to the point that we are at, but nothing more.

Personally, while I find evolution to be a plausible explanation, I do think that it is wrong. There have been many theories throughout history where the leading scientists produced all this "evidence" to prove that their theory was a "fact," later on to be proved wrong by a better and different theory. I also DO NOT BELIEVE THAT INTELLIGENT DESIGN IS THAT THEORY (in caps so that people won't ad hominem this). I don't believe in God but while I went through the process of finding out that there is no good evidence that God is real, I didn't want to go to the other extreme and have my life dictated by scientific dogma.

I know that my position is rare (an atheist that doesn't believe in evolution), but I'm sick and tired of people stating that evolution is a fact.

 

[wolf116]

Evolution is observable in organisms that multiply rapidly eg. bacteria

 

[Aboleo]

Evolution is observable in organisms that multiply rapidly eg. bacteria

Exactly right. Why do you think we keep getting stronger versions of the flu every year?

 

[wootapotky]

Evolution is observable in organisms that multiply rapidly eg. bacteria

That is not macroevolution. That is bacteria changing into bacteria. What usually happens is that the stronger form of bacteria is left to survive and in turn make a superstrain of bacteria. But still bacteria. Nothing is being added that changes the fact that it is still bacteria. Microevolution being that changes are being made where certain characteristics that are already in the genes become the dominant characteristics. Such as the moth example. The moth already had the genes for being darker and lighter. It just lost the ability for one.

 

[joekerr31]

so where the transformers and Optimus Prime the result of evolution?

 

[Aboleo]

That is bacteria changing into bacteria.

Not exactly, it is changing into slightly different, even stronger bacteria... but it is changing. So are we. Hell, there is only a 2% genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees. I'm not saying that we came directly from chimpanzees, but the truth is that we are only slightly different.

Besides, there is no such thing as something 'changing' into exactly was it is, that goes against the very definition of the word itself.:yes:

 

[wootapotky]

Not exactly, it is changing into slightly different, even stronger bacteria... but it is changing. So are we. Hell, there is only a 2% genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees. I'm not saying that we came directly from chimpanzees, but the truth is that we are only slightly different. :yes:

It's the wrong kind of changing though. It's changing within an already established DNA code (which is what I meant by bacteria changing into bacteria i.e. it's changing alright but it's not changing into something new).

I'm not saying that we evolved from chimps either or any other monkey/ape/whatever that is alive today. I know what the theory says about it being a common ancestor and I get equally frustrated when creationists say that evolution states we evolved from monkeys.

I just believe that there are certain limits to change. I remember reading once that some scientists believed that mosquitos little sucker thing (what is that called by the way?) evolved from an extra leg that was on the face. I also remember laughing quite a bit afterwards.

I understand for the most part how the theory of evolution works, that through small changes come bigger changes over a vast amount of time and I can envision it throughout the whole process. I just don't think it's as bullet proof as most think it is and would not be surprised at all if a better and different theory trumped it.

By the way don't you think it's odd Aboleo that a Christian is defending evolution and an atheist is playing the Devil's advocate? I find that highly amusing.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

so where the transformers and Optimus Prime the result of evolution?

No, JOE...

The Transformers and Optimus Prime ARE NOT the result of Evolution, and neither is that fukking evil robot "Megatron"------everybody KNOWS he's the result of EVILution!

And to blow to smithereens yet ANOTHER "myth" put forth by the ever-gullible, "Text-Book-Heads", turns out, not even the X-MEN are the result of Evolution, either.

Because everybody with ANY sense already knows that Cyclops, Professor X, and especially "The Beast" are all the result of goddamm STAN LEE and the late-great, JACK "KING" kIRBY of Marvel Comics' fame!!!!

So as STAN himself would say...Excelsior! :rockon: