Man, It's so freaking RANDOM

[edger]

But the part that gets confusing and makes you pass off this whole topic as bullsh*t, is when you see guys who hook up with hot women consistently every single weekend. My good buddy I sarge with can do this every weekend. This guy pulls some nice specimens. No joke, his success rate with cold-approaching is about 97%, meaning about 97% of the time, he doesn't get blown off or rejected. And this is a guy who's as dark as night(and I don't mean "dark" in any discriminatory way, I'm just pointing out how it's supposed that people don't tend to find dark people attractive, but as we see in my friends case, this proves otherwise, at least with women), from southern India, who can hardly be understood because of his heavy Indian accent, and at the same time his game is nothing special at all(he even admits his game isn't anything special). And all these women he gets are all your typical hot white chicks from the burbs.

I think what happens in these situations like my friend, is that, women sense(I strongly believe they have certain psychic abilities) he pulls a lot, and therefore hook up with him. He even agrees. This has been talked about here before.

 

[Stagger Lee]

But the part that gets confusing and makes you pass off this whole topic as bullsh*t, is when you see guys who hook up with hot women consistently every single weekend. My good buddy I sarge with can do this every weekend. This guy pulls some nice specimens. No joke, his success rate with cold-approaching is about 95%, meaning 95% of the time, he doesn't get blown off or rejected. And this is a guy who's as dark as night(and I don't mean "dark" in any discriminatory way, I'm just pointing out how it's supposed that people don't tend to find dark people attractive, but as we see in my friends case, this proves otherwise, at least with women), from southern India, who can hardly be understood because of his heavy Indian accent, and at the same time his game is nothing special at all(he even admits his game isn't anything special). And all these women he gets are all your typical hot white chicks from the burbs.

Along the lines of women's irationality is how white chicks seem to show a preference for hooking up with non-white or foreign guys.

I think what happens in these situations like my friend, is that, women sense(I strongly believe they have certain psychic abilities) he pulls a lot, and therefore hook up with him. He even agrees.

Yeah but that's a cause and effect argument. What is really causing these girl to hook up with him a lot in the first place to sense that he pulls a lot? First he must be able to pull a lot. Women aren't really psychic, they are just attracted to similar things. This is why I said female attraction is not random, since one guy always gets lots of girls and another always gets few or none, but it definitely is subjective, capricious and arbitrary. You can be subjective and capricious and not random at the same time. Your friend probably doesn't know any more why he attracts the girls any more than you or anyone else including so-called PUAs. And even if they could ballpark it, that doesn't mean it something a person could consciously duplicate or rationalize their way toward doing.

Bottom line is women are emotional driven aka as instinctive driven like an animal is, but not so much a matter of being random. They get to choose, so us men have to suffer whatever consequences of their instictive/emotional choices. Their behaviors are too hard to predict and to understand why and what causes what response to do much about it. Much of attracting females is outside any one man's control. Guys who do what works are just doing the right things by happenstance that they naturally attract.

 

[edger]

This is why I said female attraction is not random, since one guy always gets lots of girls and another always gets few or none

Yeah, it's so true. I had totally forgot about my friend and other guys who pull consistently every weekend before engaging in this thread.

Bottom line is women are emotional driven aka as instinctive driven like an animal is, but not so much a matter of being random. They get to choose, so us men have to suffer whatever consequences of their instictive/emotional choices. Their behaviors are too hard to predict and to understand why and what causes what response to do much about it. Much of attracting females is outside any one man's control. Guys who do what works are just doing the right things by happenstance that they naturally attract.

Ain't that the truth. Eh, what are ya gonna do. That's why I don't put much effort into the game anymore. Yeah I'll go out every weekend, but I only go out to socialize with friends, dance, and take in the music. And if a hot b*tch comes along, that's f*ckin' awesome(I hate to say that because it's such a cliche thing to say here, but it's true). I'd rather hire escorts and fly out to Amsterdam once every 2 months to keep my sex life alive and healthy. I'm perfectly fine with that. No beating around the bush, second guessing, games, gaming, etc. I get what I want, when I want, and who I want. It's as simple as that. Simple, the way it should be.

 

[jophil28]

Yeah, it's so true. I had totally forgot about my friend and other guys who pull consistently every weekend before engaging in this thread.


.

My guess is that these guys are fearless, confident and bold and NEVER weaken when a woman resists, or sh1t tests them - they just get bolder and more assertive until the woman complies.

The 'bulldozer model' in action.

 

[Stagger Lee]

My guess is that these guys are fearless, confident and bold and NEVER weaken when a woman resists, or sh1t tests them - they just get bolder and more assertive until the woman complies.

The 'bulldozer model' in action.

That's probably true but is more of the natural result of being attractive for other reasons in the first place. To a woman, you know what the difference is between being bold and confident vs. being pushy, arrogant and even "creepy"? Merely on whether she finds the guy attractive or not lol. I don't know how many guys I know would confidently open dozen of girls throught the night and get no where. The females just walk away.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Ain't that the truth. Eh, what are ya gonna do. That's why I don't put much effort into the game anymore. Yeah I'll go out every weekend, but I only go out to socialize with friends, dance, and take in the music. And if a hot b*tch comes along, that's f*ckin' awesome(I hate to say that because it's such a cliche thing to say here, but it's true). I'd rather hire escorts and fly out to Amsterdam once every 2 months to keep my sex life alive and healthy. I'm perfectly fine with that. No beating around the bush, second guessing, games, gaming, etc. I get what I want, when I want, and who I want. It's as simple as that. Simple, the way it should be.

Yeah working harder at game often isn't very productive. Sometimes the best game is not trying to game at all. The fact that just getting a prostitute is simple, to me indicates that women will do anything as long as they feel motivated to do it. Women have no motivation to get sexual with just any particular guy but put some money on the table and then women see the incentive. What does this tell you? In general most men have no real value to women outside of money. Since men no longer control the purse stringers, they no longer have much value.

 

[jophil28]

That's probably true but is more of the natural result of being attractive for other reasons in the first place. To a woman, you know what the difference is between being bold and confident vs. being pushy, arrogant and even "creepy"? Merely on whether she finds the guy attractive or not lol. I don't know how many guys I know would confidently open dozen of girls throught the night and get no where. The females just walk away.

Yep, however your 'x' factor is always at work . It follows you around and participates silently in every new interaction and every convo with every new women.

Ultimately, mostly it matters little if you are tall, wealthy, prestigous and have lots of social proof. If she does not "feel it" for you at the raw and simple attraction level, it is not gonna happen.
Being well built, well presented or wealthy will increase your chances- no question.
Being popular and having other woman chase you will also help, but your having that mysterious 'x' factor is what makes up her mind in the end.

It is all the more bewildering oftentimes because the male 'x' factor is also open to wide definition among women.

A few guys here like STR8uP and Hooligan 'whats his name' endlessly refused to understand this. They preferred to cling to a "money talks" belief. Sure, all women are drawn to men who possess, or can generate 'resources', but if you are annoying and clingy and crude , your money mostly will not save you.

Also, my guess is that what attracts one woman will leave the next ambivalent, and a third may even blow you off because of it.

However, my observation of the value of boldness and a confident appoach is that it is universally aattractive to women. Whether she likes you after that is rather random and perhaps that is just because what women find attractive is diverse.

This may be Nature at work providing someone for everyone ?

 

[zekko]

They preferred to cling to a "money talks" belief

Then on the other side of the coin are the guys who insist money doesn't matter at all - that only "gold diggers" care at all about what kind of career you have. I think this is mostly perpetuated by guys who have something to gain from it - guys with no money and people who sell seduction material (attract women no matter what you look like or how much money you make). They always tell the story of how the girl uses some guy for his money (the guy is always an AFC of course), maybe even marries him, but then goes and fvcks the DJ.

This happens of course, but they're missing something. They are forgetting that to command resources is an alpha trait. Guys who are the head of their tribe are going to have wealth at their disposal. If women are attracted to alpha men, it's natural for them to be attracted to financially successful men.

That doesn't mean guys without much money can't get women. Or that any guy with money is automatically an alpha male. Just that having money is an alpha trait, one piece of a complicated formula that determines what makes men attractive.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Jophil, I definitely agree that some "x-factor" is at play. I define it loosely as your overall appearance and nonverbal communication.

Anyway I think money is an incentive or motivator for female attraction. I have some ideas about that and whether money is as valid motivator for attraction as others but I won't get into all of them now other than to say it is not always an equally valid motivation. People kid themselves. Women fleece rich so-called "alpha" guys all the time. Of course they might say the guy wasn't "really" alpha but that's just making my point. All you have to do is observe affluent guys that have little or no women and broke guys that have plenty to see that the "x-factor" trumps all.

And if all you can get is zero women without money and some with money, this happens a lot, then what does that tell you? You are just a means to an end and no more than $$ signs to a woman and totally and utterly usable and replacable in her view. I have nothing against guys getting women by using money, tricks or by hook or crrok, but don't kid yourself. The woman could actually like the dumb, bum guy and not the well-to-do guy she is with. Not all motivations are equally valid, not even when applied to women.

All this alpha guys make money, are popular and this and that and non-alphas are not is assuming people let alone women are rational. They are not. Often times the stupidest and less objectively alpha guy is the richest and the "leader". Society is often topsy turvy.

But I'll say this much pursuing money is probably a better game plan than pursuing women.

 

[zekko]

All this alpha guys make money, are popular and this and that and non-alphas are not is assuming people let alone women are rational.

I distinctly said that not all guys who have money are alpha. And if a woman fleeces a guy of his money it's only because he has allowed her to. Which would tend to indicate he's not very alpha, yes?
I did say that having money is an alpha TRAIT, one of many. Contrary to what people on this forum might think, guys are not wholly alpha or wholly beta. Most people are a mixed bag. But a true alpha man, a man that is the leader of his tribe, is not going to be hurting for money.

I would not suggest that a man use money as a tactic to get women. Nevertheless, if a man has money that is a lot more attractive than if he is broke. It's simply because a guy who can take care of himself and pay his bills shows that he has his house in order, and that he is successful (at least financially). Obviously that is more attractive than not being able to hold a job and living in your parent's basement.

Women are attracted to men who are self assured for a reason. A man who is self assured is communicating that he is able to handle any situation that may arise. If a guy can't handle his finances or his career, this is not being congruent with being a self assured confident man.

 

[jophil28]

But I'll say this much pursuing money is probably a better game plan than pursuing women.

Yeah, if your pursuit of money is fruitful, your pursuit of women becomes so much easier.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

This is the kind of talk I like to see here. My one problem with Roissy is that he rationalizes any man with money or success as being "beta". He brags about being broke, it's a convenient philosophy of "whatever I am doing is the sh!t", so underachieving is alpha rebellious and making money is for beta geeks.

Delusion does not favor alpha or beta, it's an equal opportunity straightjacket.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I distinctly said that not all guys who have money are alpha. And if a woman fleeces a guy of his money it's only because he has allowed her to. Which would tend to indicate he's not very alpha, yes?
I did say that having money is an alpha TRAIT, one of many. Contrary to what people on this forum might think, guys are not wholly alpha or wholly beta. Most people are a mixed bag. But a true alpha man, a man that is the leader of his tribe, is not going to be hurting for money.

Well I'm not much of a believer in vague terms like alpha and beta. But to go with them, betas can have money and women or not and alphas can be broke and have women. Money is not really necessarily a trait of anything per se. To say, "Well this guy is rich AND successful with women therefore he is 'alpha' ". Is really just vaguely mismashing everything together.

I would not suggest that a man use money as a tactic to get women. Nevertheless, if a man has money that is a lot more attractive than if he is broke. It's simply because a guy who can take care of himself and pay his bills shows that he has his house in order, and that he is successful (at least financially). Obviously that is more attractive than not being able to hold a job and living in your parent's basement.

Well of course, I agree. But what I was talking about is none of that explains why it is the well-to-do guy has no women. And the broke guy has many women.

Women are attracted to men who are self assured for a reason. A man who is self assured is communicating that he is able to handle any situation that may arise. If a guy can't handle his finances or his career, this is not being congruent with being a self assured confident man.

The thing is either one is successful in money and women or not. There are plenty of guys who are self-assured but that doesn't quarantee success in either area.

 

[zekko]

Well I'm not much of a believer in vague terms like alpha and beta. But to go with them, betas can have money and women or not and alphas can be broke and have women. Money is not really necessarily a trait of anything per se.

The only place I disagree with you is where you say having money is not an alpha trait. I'm not saying all alpha men have money, or that all men with money are alphas, far from it. But I still think it's an alpha trait. You could say the same thing about being muscular. Not all muscular men are alphas, and not all alpha men are muscular. But generally I would say it's an alpha trait.

Look at different situations. A teacher in a classroom is the alpha male and who most likely has the most money in that situation? The teacher (just because the people he's teaching are students and aren't full time into their career yet). Women are attracted to LEADERSHIP, yes? The leaders of a company are generally the ones with the most money. CEOs and supervisors make more money than their subordinates. And in those situations they are the alpha men.

Now the guy who walks into a club and owns it doesn't necessarily have money, true. But that doesn't dismiss the tendency. Women tend to be attracted to the leaders, and the leaders usually have money. Not wealthy necessarily, but money shouldn't be an issue for them.

But I agree there is an x-factor at play for certain guys who are naturally good with women. It might be a combination of things, or it might be charisma. I've seen people try to define and teach charisma but I haven't seen anything really convincing on the subject. Calling it an x-factor might be more accurate because it's something of a mystery.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Yeah I agree that money in itself is an advantage and gives you more value. Having money also usually helps your confidence. But having money only doesn't make anyone like you as a person or necessarily mean you are "alpha". I don't think there's much alpha about Bill Gates yet he is one of the richest men in the world. For instance, if you are actually a beta that somehow falls or is born into money or own a company, you by default become "alpha" to your subordinates but that is a construct more than you having to be actually "alpha".

Since nowadays making money is more about who you know and who likes you or not likes you than it is about intelligence and true ability, I mostly agree that the qualities that allow you to make money are the same qualities that allow you to attract women. But increasingly getting money and getting women is blurred and requires the same qualities, charisma, personality, cunningness. I wouldn't call the qualities alpha but just what works.

There definitely is a factor one can distill out of all the rest that successful guys have in common, but it is mostly undefined and so I call it an X-factor. I think it is broadly appearance, because even if you define it as charisma, charisma is perceived mostly visually by the observer, the female, your co-workers etc.

 

[Stagger Lee]

To build on the x-factor concept which I think is an important one, I liken it to being a good actor. What do people like? They like to watch actors. Actors, male or female, are usually attractive shiny people, reading a script so they say entertaining and witty things, they are expressive and have good nonverbals etc. So what is the successful guy that doesn't seem to follow game principles, doesn't have money, much intelligence, character etc doing right? They are probably naturally good actors and follow a good natural script, a script that may not be PUA approved and might even seem on the face "AFC". So in a sense these naturals are somewhat just lucky.

Call them good actors, "players", con-man, phony or whatever, but I know I have to do some acting to attract a girl. Females demand a good act. I tend to call them actors and it acting and the x-factor appearance, and that's the theory I'm going with .

 

[8YearLurker]

Such great input, information, arguments, opinions, experiences, all relating to the central topic. Lotta gold nuggets in this thread. :rockon: