Male Satellites

[jophil28]

Great post.

The thing is, men tend to perceive this kind of attention from women as interest, and this is how they fall into her orbit. It's easy to sit back and label all male orbiters as chumps, but many of them are otherwise non-AFC guys (not necessarily DJs) who have naturally interpreted all the cutesy texts and hanging out as genuine interest....which, they all eventually find out, is not.

I've even fallen prey to this recently. I knew better, too. I started to like a girl with a long-term bf. Broke one of my own rules. I heard rumors of her fighting and imminent breakup with said bf, and all the classic signs were there: increasingly frequent texts, making plans together, studying together almost every night (in my room!), close physical contact....and most of it SHE initiated! Then like a fool I put myself out there and got promptly rejected through a series of awkward "i'm-flattered-but-I-have-a-bf" texts. Humiliating, and I'm not even a newb here I knew better!! I let my feelings get the better of my judgment.

Anyways, the take-home point is that what men often interpret as genuine interest is nothing more than an insidious game. Girls fvcking know when you like them. They crave male attention, especially if there is a deficit there with her current bf. She will give you just enough to keep you thinking there is a chance, but in reality, like mr. squirrels pointed out, a total stranger has a better likelihood of hooking up than a male satellite.

Beware of this trap! It can sneak up on you. A good rule of thumb---at least on I've adopted for myself---is do not waste your time with attached women. It is rarely, if ever, worth the effort you could be using on better prospects. At best, she'll cheat on her bf with you and you'll end up the rebound guy. At worst, you'll end up in orbit or just plain humiliated.

^^ This post should be a jolting reminder of two things-

1) Women are notoriously exploitative when they sense that they can exchange some cutesy behavior for favors from men.

2) Men have a strong tendency to label women's natural flirting behavior as interest. That way lies the dreaded FZ.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I think some of this stuff is a fine line. A lot of women who consider a male as a friend still give a lot of engaging signals -- that is because they are engaged -- in being your friend. But as many have covered, transitioning her from friendship to your penis seems to be mostly an uphill road, unless there has been undertones beyond friendship, which does happen.

But all too often we do step into the friendzone willingly, just as those here have stated: because we feel her increased attention towards us equates to sexual interest, and because we feel being "nice" is a way to build trust.

There truly is nothing wrong with being a nice guy. This is important in many ways, because if everyone was a douche the world would be filled with nothing but them. There is value in being a good person.

But a good person does not have to be a chump or a sucker, or as those have noted on this forum, give more to a relationship than what is reciprocated.

I've found you have to set limits with women. And you have to prevent them from trying to mentally castrate you and turn you into some friendly happy presence, because truly if you are confusing it with sexual desire or a *future relationship* you are most likely kidding yourself. This I have done. This I have learned. The future is fresh and full of opportunity to improve.

 

[Slickster]

Women love to create this pool of men...

I love to create a pool of women


This is a really good post. There are so many guys who don't even realize they are in this position. They can easily flip the script.

The old movie When Harry met Sally has this great quote "men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way."

Essentially if you want to nail her, then there is no friendship. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

When you start to live your life by this rule you'll see some significant changes.

There is no such thing as a female friend. She is either a potential sex partner or just another acquaintance. There is no friendzone ever. You force her to make a decision about you early on otherwise you're gone. You are either dating her and trying to bang her, or it's over.

This "absolute" type behaviour really changes your relationships with women. It's like a kiss test. She's either in or you're out.



Buddha_mind you are a rocket man

And I think it’s gonna be a long long time
Till touch down brings me round again to find
I’m not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I’m a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

 

[Jeffst1980]

The best defense is to maintain a sexual frame right off the bat. This doesn't necessarily mean to try to sleep with her, but you should acknowledge the male/female polarity in your relationship to her. This is as simple as kino-ing and continuing to escalate kino past the point that AFCs would dare to advance. Doing things like holding her hands or putting your arm around her waist when talking to her is a great way to give yourself the plausible deniability of "just being a touchy kind of guy" while sending a very clear statement of intent. Kino is the best way to avoid the friendzone!!

Some folks in the community would have you believe that hitting on girls is a surefire way to get rejected, but NOT hitting on them is what gets you into the friendzone. There comes a time where you simply MUST risk getting rejected!

The good news is: a lot of rejections are little more than temporary setbacks, and can be easily overcome with persistence. The popular notion is that once she "turns the cheek" on you, you're out of the running. This is false, however; if she "turns the cheek" but continues to engage you in any way (i.e. does not "disappear"), you will likely succeed eventually. Most guys won't persist, or will persist in a supplicating manner. The correct approach is a ****y one that belittles the woman a bit, e.g. "That's cool, you can play hard to get...I will totally win you over." This sets the frame that you are going to persist, and if she still wants to hang out with you, she is granting you tacit permission to do so.

Preserving comfort levels is nice and inoffensive, but it will lead to friendzone more often than not.

 

[Lexington]

Yeah most guys who are "friends" with girls are kidding themselves. They would rather hang out with some broad than their buddies? I have never come across a girl that's so interesting that she's more fun to hang out with than "the guys." What the heck would you even talk about or do?

It's one thing to have female friends in your social circle. Chances are, they're just part of the group and you don't hang out with them much in one-on-one settings. Maybe some of these chicks are your friends wives/girlfriends. It's alright to have female friends in the workplace: allies -male or female- are a good thing to have in your professional setting.

But if you're spending a significant amount of one-on-one time with a broad that's unrelated to work/business and you're not getting any from her, then you are a satellite.

 

[Warrior74]

Yah. Female friends really are acquaintances. They are just people you know and bear no ill will towards. I use my female friends relentlessly. One I had write all the copy for my website and sales letters. I hung around, listened to her stories and her complain about her ex and she did a couple of thousands of dollars of work for me for free. The other I used to access her network of freelancers and pulled two to come work for me. We went to a few lunches and watched a few movies together. Another I used to promote a party my buddy was throwing, she hit up the facebook, myspace, passed out flyers and brought a ton of people. We gave her shouts out and dubbed her queen of the party. She made us a lot of money and helped promote our cd sales. Most guys would have wanted money, women will trade their skill for attention. Two out of three of these I have slept with before. But I keep it friendly. No hard feelings, we're just friends right? Don't get me wrong, they are good people, and I have no ill will towards them, but if a friend can't help you when you need them, what good are they? And I have done things for them as well. It's quid pro quo. But I expect an equal exchange. No short ends of the stick for me.

 

[zekko]

Yeah most guys who are "friends" with girls are kidding themselves. They would rather hang out with some broad than their buddies? I have never come across a girl that's so interesting that she's more fun to hang out with than "the guys." What the heck would you even talk about or do?

Obviously in a lot of these cases of male/female friendships the sexual tension is driving it. The female likes to have the male attention, and the male likes to hang around the hot girl. They both benefit in that respect, but for the male at least it can become frustrating because he would rather be having sex with her. I'm not sure if it is frustrating for the female or not, I suppose it can be.

If it's a situation where each of the "friends" has other commitments, they are not really free to act on their attraction without cheating. But if they decide to hang out with each other as buddies then to some extent they can have their cake and eat it too. This is sometimes called emotional cheating. And if they get too drunk one night and they take things a little too far, no one needs to know. They're really just friends after all.

I know that's not the typical "friendzone" as talked about here on this forum, but I've definitely observed this going on in real life. That's one reason I will not abide a girl (as an LTR) who hangs around with "male friends". There's often more going on beneath the surface.

 

[iqqi]

OUCH.

Damn, Slick, I always thought that if we lived in the same neck of the woods, we'd be friends for sure. Like, real buddy friends. I guess another naive thought on my part!

There is no such thing as a female friend. She is either a potential sex partner or just another acquaintance. There is no friendzone ever. You force her to make a decision about you early on otherwise you're gone. You are either dating her and trying to bang her, or it's over.

 

[Joe Stud]

LOL Little IQQI! Slick, looks like you just blew it!

 

[Slickster]

OUCH.

Damn, Slick, I always thought that if we lived in the same neck of the woods, we'd be friends for sure. Like, real buddy friends. I guess another naive thought on my part!

Awww c'mon iq!

You got to let me coach 'em a little bit! How else can we get these guys out of the friendzone? We're trying to break bad habits here and sometimes it takes these kind of rules to do it.

Once the guy breaks his friendzone habit then I think the male-female friendship can happen to some extent. It just takes some really cool people (including the significant others) to make these friendships happen. In too many cases though someone (usually the guy) is clinging onto the idea that something more (sexual) will eventually develop. Not a good place for a guy to be.

P.S. Iqqi, if we lived in the same neck of the woods we wouldn't have to worry about being friends...

Love you girl! :rockon:

How's the summer?

 

[iqqi]

Awww c'mon iq!

You got to let me coach 'em a little bit! How else can we get these guys out of the friendzone? We're trying to break bad habits here and sometimes it takes these kind of rules to do it.

Once the guy breaks his friendzone habit then I think the male-female friendship can happen to some extent. It just takes some really cool people (including the significant others) to make these friendships happen. In too many cases though someone (usually the guy) is clinging onto the idea that something more (sexual) will eventually develop. Not a good place for a guy to be.

P.S. Iqqi, if we lived in the same neck of the woods we wouldn't have to worry about being friends...

Love you girl! :rockon:

How's the summer?

Whatever dude. I can tell when a guy is trying to DJ me! :cuss:

 

[Joe Stud]

LOL

and I got roasted for defending Cinamon. At least she flirts back a bit.

 

[Slickster]

Whatever dude. I can tell when a guy is trying to DJ me! :cuss:

LOL. Yes I'm sure you can! However you're being a little too defensive to catch some friendly teasing from someone you've known for a long time. What gives?

I figured we've known each other long enough that I could have some fun with ya Iq. You know I'm a sarcastic bugger sometimes but always genuine when it counts. No need to break out the nasty red screaming smilies on me! Hope all is well?

P.S. You can yell as many !@#$%^&*#!'s as you want at me, we're still buds and yes I do still love you! :yes:

 

[Tazman]

Observe the hypocracy before you, lol.

 

[DanelMadr]

I hear ya Buddha_Mind,

Being friends with girl brings pain either to you or her. It is a two way street.

You like the girl but you are not attracted to her for sure, so you keep her around, she falls in love with you....you treat her like a friend...she falls harder for you...but you are still not sure you want to bang her. Basically you don't want to take the respnsibility for her...you don't want to break her heart...so you are doing it slowly anyway.

I figured out it is best not to be friends with girls, unless you don't find her attractive and she dates drop dead georgeous millionaire commanding an empire.

I even quit dating girls I don't see future with. You get much less bed notches but it is much better on your karma this way.Unfortunatelly it is such a ****ty policy...it can make your life really miserable when you are not spinning any plates. I mean it takes balls not to panic and do or say something stupid like to express your feelings, he he.

I'm on a dry spell, so maybe my semen making pressure on my brain makes me think differently. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Slickster]

Observe the hypocracy before you, lol.

Haha, Nice Tazman! I take this :cuss: smiley guy quite seriously though. I will always try to make peace with my peeps. I'm not sure if iqqi was having a bad day or just doesn't trust me enough to play along. Humour, teasing and sarcasm never seem to come over right on the internet.

Either way, iqs IS a friend and I AM her satellite. I just hope that sex doesn't ruin our online friendship.

 

[iqqi]

Either way, iqs IS a friend and I AM her satellite. I just hope that sex doesn't ruin our online friendship.

:box:





















Noone ever catches my dark sarcasm, I swear. And you got an answer back at the other spot too.

 

[maqnetik]

Obviously in a lot of these cases of male/female friendships the sexual tension is driving it. The female likes to have the male attention, and the male likes to hang around the hot girl. They both benefit in that respect, but for the male at least it can become frustrating because he would rather be having sex with her. I'm not sure if it is frustrating for the female or not, I suppose it can be.

If it's a situation where each of the "friends" has other commitments, they are not really free to act on their attraction without cheating. But if they decide to hang out with each other as buddies then to some extent they can have their cake and eat it too. This is sometimes called emotional cheating. And if they get too drunk one night and they take things a little too far, no one needs to know. They're really just friends after all.

I know that's not the typical "friendzone" as talked about here on this forum, but I've definitely observed this going on in real life. That's one reason I will not abide a girl (as an LTR) who hangs around with "male friends". There's often more going on beneath the surface.

truth.... and even more reason not to tolerate this sort of thing right from the start

:nono:

 

[High Voltage]

I got a blonde with big tits (and a bf) trying to turn me into a satellite male right now. I'm not going to fall for this sh1t. I flat out told her today: "you'll have to find someone else to manipulate into doing stuff for you." After the stunned look wore off her face she responded: "that's okay; I already have someone else." Do you see a denial of her intent here? No? Neither do I.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Tom Leykis on this topic:
http://myprops.org/channelcontent/Le...riends-Part-1/
http://myprops.org/channelcontent/Le...riends-Part-4/

He says the same most people here have said!