male gymnast paradox

[treefingers]

I have met several male gymnasts over the years that all competed at the college level. As I'm sure you guys have at one point or another seen the olympics and noticed that male gymnasts tend to be quite buff(not huge but buff) and ripped. The guys I met were no different. Yet when I would ask each one what kind of training they did to get so buff they all said the same thing and it really really surprised me. They all said that they don't go to the gym and they don't use weights! Instead they all said that they use bodyweight only exercises using gymnastic equipment. Examples are push ups, sit ups, pull ups, dips using the parallel bars, and a strange upside down push ups using the parallel bars( it has about the same effect as upright rows). But this is where it gets really strange, they do one set of to failure of each exercise and for a trained male gymnast that ends up being around 100 reps( yes you read that right 100 reps!). This kind of training goes against everything that I have read and been told about getting buff and ripped. I have always read and heard that high reps will not get you big. But the proof is in the pudding and like I said the guys I met were buff and ripped and the same is true when I see gymnastics on tv. So what gives? Why do you think this works?

 

[Warboss Alex]

It just reinforces why the negative part of the rep is the most important - gymnasts will do slow controlled movements on the 'down' part of their exercises, where the muscle is under strain, hence their great development.

ONE all out set to failure is fine for muscular growth, it's more than enough as proved by gymnasts and training systems like DC. Gymnasts never add weight to their exercises so their size will always be limited but their controlled negatives and all-out effort training earns them that impressive physique.

And really, if you can do bodyweight dips or pullups for 100 reps you're not going to be that small ..

 

[treefingers]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
It just reinforces why the negative part of the rep is the most important - gymnasts will do slow controlled movements on the 'down' part of their exercises, where the muscle is under strain, hence their great development.

ONE all out set to failure is fine for muscular growth, it's more than enough as proved by gymnasts and training systems like DC. Gymnasts never add weight to their exercises so their size will always be limited but their controlled negatives and all-out effort training earns them that impressive physique.

And really, if you can do bodyweight dips or pullups for 100 reps you're not going to be that small ..

Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions. When you refer to the negative part of a lift would that be the part of a push up where you are lowering yourself to the ground? Why do you say that gymnasts do slow controlled negatives(just curious)? And most importantly of all, what is the training system you call DC?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Yes, that would be the negative part.

Gymnasts CONTROL their bodyweight, they don't let it control them. Hence their controlled negative (slow is relative by the way).

DC is a training system which emphasises one workset (usually to failure) per bodypart for growth.

 

[silverfox]

Dragondoor.com has some articles by Christopher Sommer who is a gymnastics coach. There is a progressive workout for two exercises on there - front planche and front lever.

The front planche is a pushup position with only the hands touching the ground. I am willing to bet most big benchers couldn't do this.

Gymnasts have great physiques but they also have real functional strength as they don't isolate muscle groups when they train but work the body as a unit as much as possible.

 

[the_reader]

ya i can vouch for the negs getting you more ripped. my kung fu teacher used to make me do the slowest push ups up and down. then he'd vary the arm distances on the pushups (up close togher and about 5ft apart). Then he'd mix other excercises to make your muscles tired, sort of like tai bo, but more intense. Situps, leg raises, and pilates sh_t , everything were included.

hahah needless to say, i built a nice physique and was the only one to have a six pack when we went to the pool (this was in highschool)

 

[treefingers]

warboss,

Can you tell me more about DC? I did some searches and didn't really find anything. Are there any sites where I can find out more about it?

thanks

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Consider Matt Furey. His background is combat training. He sells programs on BODYWEIGHT only exercises.

Functional weight is ideally the goal. Powerlifters are closer to this goal than TRUE bodybuilders, who's only goal is hypertrophy as quick and big and fast as possible.

If I had a choice, I'd go with looking a male gymnast than bodybuilding. Just preference though. I've 'considered' focusing or adding bodyweight exercises only, as Furey's program provide MORE than enough for the average person to put together a nice body. His stuff is solid, too. The reason I pitch it is because it's nice to have a new fresh breath of air not pushing 8 hour workouts each week in the gym. At LEAST the workouts you do with functional/bodyweight enable you flexibility, stamina, size, strength, and some fat loss benefits. I love weight training, but at some point I'll switch to bodyweight exercises so I can get out of the gym and just exercise locally, my neighborhood, or near the boulevard.

As an aside, I did negatives for several weeks, about 7. Right now, I'm just doing full out sets of 12. The change of pace was nice, too, as I found my motivation AND strength waning. I'm going into slim down mode for the summer and golf, and was bored of the same old workouts. I do know some guys on the DC boards mix it up; they don't do negatives at all, or they start and stop them depending on what's going on. So it doesn't have to be the BE all END all it is, but definately do it for 6 weeks, eat as heavy as you can, gain some weight, and watch your strength go through the roof.


A-Unit

 

[silverfox]

I got into bodyweight exercise because of Matt Furey's stuff but lately he has become a marketing machine - primate power? sexual kung-fu?

For a no-nonsense low-tech, hi-intensity workout please check out Ross Enamait's stuff at:

www.rossboxing.com
www.warriorforce.com

I have his "Underground Guide" which is bodyweight only exercises. You only need something to do chinups and pullups on. He also has books on using sandbags, sledgehammers and dumbbells as conditioning tools.

The reason I am so keen on Ross and his stuff is 1) it works, 2) he has the best customer service and answers all emails personally. Unlike a lot of exercise websites I could mention Ross under promises and over delivers.

Have a look at the clips on his site to see what kind of shape he is in.

 

[semag]

treefingers...

dc also = doggcrapp.

Go look that up and you'll get a lot of info.

PS: also look for "cycles on pennies"

 

[Paintballguy]

Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit
Consider Matt Furey. His background is combat training. He sells programs on BODYWEIGHT only exercises.

Functional weight is ideally the goal. Powerlifters are closer to this goal than TRUE bodybuilders, who's only goal is hypertrophy as quick and big and fast as possible.

If I had a choice, I'd go with looking a male gymnast than bodybuilding. Just preference though. I've 'considered' focusing or adding bodyweight exercises only, as Furey's program provide MORE than enough for the average person to put together a nice body. His stuff is solid, too. The reason I pitch it is because it's nice to have a new fresh breath of air not pushing 8 hour workouts each week in the gym. At LEAST the workouts you do with functional/bodyweight enable you flexibility, stamina, size, strength, and some fat loss benefits. I love weight training, but at some point I'll switch to bodyweight exercises so I can get out of the gym and just exercise locally, my neighborhood, or near the boulevard.

As an aside, I did negatives for several weeks, about 7. Right now, I'm just doing full out sets of 12. The change of pace was nice, too, as I found my motivation AND strength waning. I'm going into slim down mode for the summer and golf, and was bored of the same old workouts. I do know some guys on the DC boards mix it up; they don't do negatives at all, or they start and stop them depending on what's going on. So it doesn't have to be the BE all END all it is, but definately do it for 6 weeks, eat as heavy as you can, gain some weight, and watch your strength go through the roof.


A-Unit

I have Matt Furey's book on combat conditioning. I love it because I can do all these exercises at home without any equipment. And, I'm not really into the whole bodybuilding look how big my muscles are thing. I would rather look good and have a lot of stamina and usable strength. But thats just me.

 

[vanwilder]

Originally posted by treefingers
I have met several male gymnasts over the years that all competed at the college level. As I'm sure you guys have at one point or another seen the olympics and noticed that male gymnasts tend to be quite buff(not huge but buff) and ripped. The guys I met were no different. Yet when I would ask each one what kind of training they did to get so buff they all said the same thing and it really really surprised me. They all said that they don't go to the gym and they don't use weights! Instead they all said that they use bodyweight only exercises using gymnastic equipment. Examples are push ups, sit ups, pull ups, dips using the parallel bars, and a strange upside down push ups using the parallel bars( it has about the same effect as upright rows). But this is where it gets really strange, they do one set of to failure of each exercise and for a trained male gymnast that ends up being around 100 reps( yes you read that right 100 reps!). This kind of training goes against everything that I have read and been told about getting buff and ripped. I have always read and heard that high reps will not get you big. But the proof is in the pudding and like I said the guys I met were buff and ripped and the same is true when I see gymnastics on tv. So what gives? Why do you think this works?

i know a ton of gymnasts, girls and guys that compete at world competitions. i know for a fact that they lift weights. the thing is they are more worried for pound for pound. if you notice with what they do, i am not surprized at all that they are ripped, like doing bars and **** is brutal. to be doing that with your body weight is incredible, so its not just them doing push ups that get them ripped.

 

[The_Lifter]

Think about how much time under tension they have for those 100 reps. Also remember that gymnastic activities are based on slow negatives and static holds - look at the rings for example. If you keep doing that stuff day in day out, the body will adapt.

 

[Adone]

I think everything Alex said is right, but he missed the most important thing, IMO: what do you mean with buff?

When we say that you can't get buff with bodyweight exercises, we mean that you won't become big, which probably has a different meaning for us than for you. When I say big, I mean someone you can tell he works out even when he's got regular (not tight) clothes on.

Of course, you can get a really nice body by doing tons of bodyweight squats and pushups, but what's the point if you can get a better one by adding some weight?

 

[treefingers]

I mentioned in my post that gymnasts don't seem to get big, just defined and ripped. It all depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking to get big that by all means lift weights but not everyone wants that.

 

[ThreeStorms]

While these guys are certainly impressive, to be honest I would not like having a gymnast's body. Their arms look like they could explode anytime, while their legs are average - they just don't need them, heavy muscles on the "wrong" side of the body would even make most of the exercises impossible, I think.