Make the ho say no! *ESSENTIAL*

[Jariel]

I think you misunderstood the essence of my post. No one said anything about harassing women. Asking for their number IS the "opportunity to be with you" that you're offering. The post was aimed at guys who would just walk up, say hi or make a random comment or two, and then walk away. The message was that they should at the very least TRY to close, whether or not they think the girl's interested (and very often, they're wrong to think she's NOT interested, as being newbies, they're not yet able to read women well). The message was NOT that you should annoy and harass chicks, and ask them for a number 15 times until they finally get annoyed and give you a new one so that you'll finally leave. Do NOT do this. There IS a difference between being brave and being an a$$hole.

I re-read your post and see the point you are trying to make. I was basically going on Gunwitch's general philosophy where he does appear to advocate harrassing chicks.

I apologise.

 

[brucevangeorge]

Personally I'd have said "How to become a desperate loser".

Have some self-worth guys. Hassling a chick to the point where she has to spell it out for you is as desperate as you can get!

I don't chase any women, I give them opportunities to be with me.

I guess you guys got a different message. To each his own.

There is a difference between hassling and going activelly after what you want.
One is excessive and one is just enough.

 

[Blackdragon5095]

This is a good post. But after rereading and reading other posts their are parts of it that I disagree with.

Not making EC is bad. And you should always make EC with everyone your talking to.

Another thing is you shouldn't limit your apporach. Don't go up to girls asking their sl*ts because we all should know women don't know they want sex. Even if she banged 5 different guys. She will still put up anti-sl*t shield.

You should make the girl laugh. Because making her laugh shows that your a fun guy. And women love to be around guys who make them smile and laugh.

You should do kino on a girl.

And yes ask for the phone number

But limiting your apporach to just a # close is bad. You can get more. Like 1 person said in this post. The bigger risk you take teh bigger the reward. That is 100% true. NEVER EVER limit yourself. Go as high as the sky.

My last point.
First impression,

You need to leave a good lasting first impression. Yes their are second impression but those come after she gets to know you. Which will take to long. You need to do a good first impression always and all the time. Never do this stuff unless your looking to get rejected.

Not giving EC shows that your a nevres inconfidence guy.

Not smiling or making her laugh shows that your a boring guy. OR even a unhappy guy.

Not doing kino on her shows that you aren't interested in her, and she will think you are just their to talk to her. Also do kino because it could turn her on leading to a kiss close or a f*ck close.

Not doing rapport, she will feel as if you are interviewing her for a job or something. ( If you want to learn about rapport read this book [ The Magic of Rapport by Jerry Richardson & Joel Marcgulis ])

Always always smile, not smiling shows again that your a boring and unhappy guy.

Like Krassus said, ask for the phone number.

Sry krassus I said I was going to add this to the journal tips but I changed my mind man. I don't agree with all the stuff said in the topic no offense to you man.

A good first impression is your goal and asking for the number. Never leave a impression showing your a guy who hasn't gotten laid in 5 years.

 

[Arsinel]

Hell yes, brother, make the ho say no!


:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

 

[Krassus]

This is a good post. But after rereading and reading other posts their are parts of it that I disagree with.

Very good points, but i think that you too have misunderstood what i was trying to say. The things you mentioned are essential to any approach, and we should ALWAYS do them. However, we have to realize that those things are NOT our goal; they are the MEANS to our goal, which is getting the chick. Too many guys will go up there, look in her eyes, make her laugh, touch her and then WALK AWAY! THAT is the issue i was trying to address.

 

[Blackdragon5095]

I feel I'm sorta responsible for that problem. Due to my apporach jounral. But that is true, the problem with apporaching women is paying attention. This is the hardest part because men are too busy thinking what to say next. They should be paying attention to her words and body language. And asking for the number. Not looking for smooth moves.

Some guys like to act fake when they apporach girls and know they are being fake and when it comes time to date and ask for numbers. They bail out because they don't have true confidence, true happiness, true self-control and don't have their sh!t together.

Being fake isn't the way. I think men to do first before they do any apporach jounral or progress report, is to fix theirself up first. This is way they don't have to use fake confidence, or fake smiles or fake attuides to get girls.

I myself at a point where I need to pull myself together first before I begin dating and do other stuff with women.

Another problem is men think they should get confidence from women.

WRONG !!!

Wolf said you shouldn't get confidence from women but other things in life. This is 100% true. Men need to fix theirself up first then get more confidence from other things in life. Be happy with who you are, not caring what other people will think.

The greatest risk is not to take any risk at all

Now I don't how to get every guy to ask for the #. Like we don't know how to get every god damn keyjockey off his ass into the field. Or make every guy in the world realize he should be a real man not a jerk or a nice guy.

All we can do is to contunie moving along in our lifes.

 

[Vulpine]

Some guys like to act fake when they apporach girls and know they are being fake and when it comes time to date and ask for numbers. They bail out because they don't have true confidence, true happiness, true self-control and don't have their sh!t together.

Being fake isn't the way. I think men to do first before they do any apporach jounral or progress report, is to fix theirself up first. This is way they don't have to use fake confidence, or fake smiles or fake attuides to get girls.

I aggree with this point of view. And, you'll see it in my FR's too. I don't focus on PUA tactics except for the basics. I've been working on EC, kino, and body language. But, I don't care about "the cube", handwriting analysis, parlor tricks, palm reading, and the rest of those gimmicks. That crap is "jewelry on a fat man".

If you aren't a completely quality person, you are just a dancing monkey to a woman. So, I'm working on first things first, but still getting out in the field in the meantime.

Now, "make the ho say no" is sound advice, provided it's motivational advice in a scenario where the woman and the DJ were both interested. Many times, DJ's open a set just to be social, build social proof, and for the experience. Then, when something else gets their attention, eject. Some people might confuse that with "ejecting too soon". I've been out with guys that don't engage sets except target sets. If there are no good targets, then they wouldn't open sets. That's not a good way to get experience. Indeed, "make the ho say no" isn't always appropriate advice.

 

[timeforacatnap]

A number is an afterthought, a way to keep in touch with someone that you connect with; it's not the be-all and end-all end goal!

agreed but if you cant even get that, you can forget about sex..or a relationship.

by praticing on strangers via cold approaches youa re training yourself, to make friends in very short spaces of time, and creating that connection, near instantaniously.

i've had ppl comment when i was in set via cold approach saying that it looked like i was talking to friends that i'd known for years...for me this would be the aim...when you look as though you've known a complete stranger for years you've most likely calibrated enough comfort and attraction that a connection has been created.

 

[( . )( . )]

How about if the situation was reversed. You're out with your friends looking for hot women and some fat chick approaches you.

You reek of low self esteem and negativity.

In case you forgot we are not the male equivalant of a fatty, b!tches step over themselves just to get a glimpse of our masculinity.

I dont mind crabs like you bringing each other down within the safe bounderies of AFCism but dont be comparing the rest of us with what you think.

If you truly did get that message out of the above post then I not only think your a joke obviously but I pity you aswell.

You simply proved you lack balls, persistance and care too much what others think about you, your setting yourself up for failure and you will get nowhere in life.

The thing about AFCs are that they're a bunch of crabs in a barrel. Just as one starts to lift himself out of the barrel, the other crabs will grab him and pull him back in.

 

[MacAvoy]

This is a good post. But after rereading and reading other posts their are parts of it that I disagree with.

Not making EC is bad. And you should always make EC with everyone your talking to.

I think your making the same mistake Jariel and most people make when reading the initial post. Your taking one line out of context, assuming it says not to make eye contact. Krassus doesn't say not to make contact, what in fact he does say is:

Your goal is NOT to make eye contact with her!
YOUR GOAL IS TO GET HER CONTACT INFO AND/OR INSTA-DATE HER!

He didn't say don't make eye contact with her, he said that it wasn't the goal of the approach. He was basically calling out the newbies doing bootcamp, more less saying to them don't stop at making contact and having a brief convo then walking away, but since your be a man and make your move.

Hope this helps clear things up as when I initially read the thread, I was confused as well.

 

[brucevangeorge]

WOMEN! Why you got to nitcpick everything about the original post.

So he didn't write it PERFECTLY. And he may have made a few TINY errors. SO WHAT?

He got the message across. If you didn't understand it, that's too bad. Read the blasted thing and accept it the way it is. Because that is the way it was written. And if you don't understand it read it over until it makes sense.

 

[Jariel]

You reek of low self esteem and negativity.

In case you forgot we are not the male equivalant of a fatty, b!tches step over themselves just to get a glimpse of our masculinity.

I know I'm not, but I'm thinking of the guys who women aren't interested in the first place - i.e. those who don't get any buying signals and feel the need to persist after a polite brush off.

I dont mind crabs like you bringing each other down within the safe bounderies of AFCism but dont be comparing the rest of us with what you think.

Far from it. I'm just trying to encourage guys to stop wasting their time randomly hassling uninterested chicks when they could be focusing on the ones who are interested and getting laid instead.

You simply proved you lack balls, persistance and care too much what others think about you, your setting yourself up for failure and you will get nowhere in life.

Yeah I lack persistance when it comes to women. If their interest is not extremely high, I move on. And while you and your like are comparing your balls I'm having sex.

Besides, it's not like I'm just some keyboard jockey judging all this stuff for the hell of it. I've been there done that and didn't like the results.

 

[( . )( . )]

I'm just trying to encourage guys to stop wasting their time randomly hassling uninterested chicks when they could be focusing on the ones who are interested and getting laid instead.

Oh is that what you were doing? And thats the message you got from the original post is it, too hassle uninterested chicks?.
crab.

 

[Krassus]

crab.

Hahahah you called him a crab! This just made my 10 minutes LOL!!

 

[donArjun]

Krassus,


Reading this post, I can tell you are an experienced DJ who knows what hes talking about.

Sorry you had to read these idiots' post who just didn't understand what your trying to say and have nothing but negativity . Thread is golden , it should be in the bible.

 

[Skweints]

I don't know why it's such a big deal to at LEAST make off with a number with EVERY girl that you meet that you find interesting. I meet girls all the time, but I usually only go for a phone number with a girl I find really interesting, if she hasn't already asked me for mine.

Sure, I could get a black book, and spend a month filling it with countless phone numbers, but that doesn't make me any more (or even less) successful than someone who manages to ONS with every chick they meet.

Everybody gives good advice... well, not EVERYBODY, but most do... the problem is, nobody explains who this advice applies to. What I mean by that is, for example, myself. I'm not looking to bang 2000 women before the end of this year. I'm looking for a cute girl with an awesome personality. So I go out and meet lots of chicks, becuse the more girls I meet, the more chances I have of finding a suitable one. Therefore, getting ****loads of phone numbers is pointless. This information wouldn't apply too much to me, because half the time, I've already made up my decision about them after approaching them and having a small conversation.

Now, as for making the ho say no, I agree with this, if you're just looking for a hookup. However, and I think this has been cleared up, but I still want to add my two cents. There is a fine line between a girl "saying" no, and a girl "screaming" no, metaphorically speaking. If a girl has to spell out the word NO, then you've gone too far, and missed all the body language cue's that would normally tell a dude, "Hey, back off brother, before you really screw things up and embarass me." Sometimes, it may even be just a test. I've had girls tell me no, just to see how I reacted. The thing was, even though they -said- no, their body's were saying "yes yes yes yes yes!". It's up to you to figure out what's really going on, based a little on what they say, and a lot on what they do... which has been covered 15-hundred million times on this board, so I guess one more won't hurt, huh?

 

[skip2mylou781]

After looking through several approach journals and being utterly astonished at the number of guys who have acquired the lethal habit of walking off without even attempting to get the number, i feel it necessary to remind everyone of the golden rule of pick-up: MAKE THE HO SAY NO! Gentleman, this ego-preservational, "i'd rather not try than risk failing" BULLSH1T has to stop!

Your goal is NOT to make eye contact with her!
Your goal is NOT to say hi to her!
Your goal is NOT to spit out a witty line and make her laugh!
Your goal is NOT to hear her goddamn life story!

YOUR GOAL IS TO GET HER CONTACT INFO AND/OR INSTA-DATE HER!

Say it like it is, dammit: if in the end of your approach, you did not go for the close, you have just WASTED a perfectly good opportunity! Look at her, look at her walking away from you! You COULD have been standing there with a huge grin on your face and and a new number in your cell OR with a huge grin on your face and the knowledge that even though you don't have a new #, you DO have balls of steel, but INSTEAD you're standing there and thinking "there goes another chick i'll never get to fvck because i'm a pvssy." THAT'S RIGHT! The NEXT guy, who WILL ask for her digits, is gonna be fvcking her next weekend! But look at the bright side, at least now you know! MAKE THE HO SAY NO!

Oh and guys, i don't wanna hear any of that "i'm still practicing eye contact" or "for the next 20 weeks, i just wanna work my conversation skills" bullsh1t! As Shark would say, "stop being an excuser!" Excusers don't get chicks; guys with BALLS get chicks! While you're on here, busy typing out another fruitless field report, another guy, who for all you know is half as smart, and looks half as good, is banging that very same chick simply because he TALKED and you WALKED!

And dammit, i KNOW this isn't easy! Do you really think i haven't been there? Do you think i was BORN with no approach anxiety? Come on! I had to go through this from square one, just like you and everyone else on this planet! But i grabbed myself by the balls, and did it RIGHT! Excuses are for AFCs, PERIOD. You have to learn to let them go and TAKE what you want REGARDLESS of the circumstances! You have no choice! Either you do that or you will NOT, i repeat WILL NOT succeed at this! I've seen HUNDREDS of guys go through this and the ONLY ones who make it are those who are able to simply DECIDE to let go of the bullsh1t and start DOING WHAT THEY ALREADY KNOW THEY HAVE TO DO! Gentlemen, do yourselves the favor of a lifetime: learn to ALWAYS MAKE THE HO SAY NO!

WOW i never even read this post before, but it sounds JUST like my thread on "ALWAYS GET THE ****IN #!"

 

[Phyzzle]

Krassus:

Make the ho say no!

Should have said "make the ho show low interest." It would have avoided all the fussing.

Women can't say "no", so they say "I don't give my # out (meaning no)", or "I have a boyfriend (meaning no)"

That's what you're getting at, right? You don't REALLY mean bugging a blatantly repulsed women for half an hour getting her to say "no"?

~Phyzzle

 

[Krassus]

Well, not really Too many people would gauge "low interest" in too many different ways. Guys would immediately start making up excuses i.e. "she avoided eye contact, so i just walked off because it was a sign of low interest!" The whole point of this was to have ONE, ROCK-SOLID outcome that we would accept as the ONLY ALTERNATIVE of actually getting the digits: her flat-out saying no. Sometimes, girls will even come up with excuses (which in reality are tests) as to why they can't give it to you, but the confident man will just ignore them and storm right through them. I've had this happen to me, passed the tests with flying colors and came out on top. Only a flat-out NO will do

 

[Luke Skywalker]

This is a great concept for newbies because this is part of rejection tolerance. Having a phobia or resistance where you are going to wait for the 'right moment' to do a contact close means that precisely that should be worked on. So it's a great addition to the bootcamp - if you you can communicate with a girl, then be sure to ask for her number - the worst she can do is one of the following:

1) Say no,

2) Give a fake number.

3) Come with an excuse.

4) Ignore, walk on, or say some funny line.

Big deal...if you talk to a girl, approach and say hi, or are in verbal distance, then you can ask, as simple as that.

For Newbies such as myself - JUST ASK for the number - let her respond with one of those four things. Then you can feel more comfortable to do more advanced stuff, like making her laugh, kino, or whatever, because you've are dealing with that pebble in the shoe or hang-up.

Don't wait for a magical or special moment to ask do a contact close, heck, just do it after saying 'hi' if it bothers you that much, and if it bothers you less, then try a convo, before the close, and if it bothers you even less, then try smiling, kino and making her laugh, and make a good impression. Working on phobia points back-to front -- do whatever you are most afraid of. One less fear is one less pebble in the shoe, and one more step to freedom.