Machines vs. Dum Bells

[Frank2500]

Folks, as a novice to lifting weights, I wanted to share with you some contrasting points of view that I have come across from guys who work out at my gym and get your perspective in the process. Now, I guess it's just me, but personally, I don't like to do dum bells at all. I don't like them and I also feel quite intimidated by them. When I use them, I never seem to enjoy my workout. I prefer machines. Now, some have said to me that if your goal is to build muscle mass, you have to do the dum bells because they make you get bigger faster. They say machines don't make you muscular. They only make you look toned. Plus, machines are too rigid in terms of letting you have free movement and be flexible when you workout.

Another guy, one of the biggest at my gym, told me that you can still get big by using machines, but the only risk is that you could easily get injured. My biceps and triceps so far seem to have increased quite a bit in size ever since I began using machines last spring. However, I've seen a few guys at my gym who began lifting later than me and tend to use dum bells more often insteand. Their chests look quite bigger than mine, they seem to be more defined and appear to have more muscle mass going on. So what's the truth in all of this?

 

[Paintballguy]

you get a more complete workout using dumb bells for many reasons. For one, when you are doing curls with dumb bells you are not just working your biceps. One will work all the stabilizer muscles plus working your biceps. Personally, I true to use machines as little as possible.

 

[Fortunate_Juan]

Some machines are ok. But anything with a fixed line of movement can hurt more than help. I would go with the dumbbells because most machines simply can't duplicate the movement. I'm sure you will get some similar views with a little more in detail stuff. I have found my gains were better when I switched from machines to free weights.

 

[Warboss Alex]

If you're a novice then your strength base must be built on basic freeweight compounds and maybe something like pulldowns/assisted chins/dips until you can do these exercises with your own bodyweight. Most machines have little to no carryover to freeweight exercises and thus sad the strength you gain with them is more like fake strength. If however you're already pushing major poundages and have the strength base, and you can use enough weight on machines to provide a growth stimulus (which you can't if a novice due to beginning poundages) then they can complement your training - the core of your program should always be free weights however.

 

[md3sign]

Similar to what WBA said, if you're a novice lifter you should focus on a compound-based full body program to build up a solid strength/size foundation. There are plenty of programs, which I won't touch on because it's not the topic of this thread, but basically you'll be focusing on:

squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, rows, dips & pullups as assistance work

Those are ALL barbell excersizes. No machines, no DBs.

Once you get past the beginner stage and become more familiar with training principles as well as what your own body responds to, then and only then should you branch out and explore dumbells and machines.

They're all good - I use all 3 now. They all have their pros and cons. Use whatever works best for you ... AFTER you make these initial gains.

 

[dj ben2]

what are rows? how do you do them? can someone send a link to a sight that shows you how do do all the exercises as i only know a few

 

[~|[DJ Neubie]|~]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
You can also find many other exercises if you click on the link to "Exercise and Muscle Directory" on the bottom.

 

[Warboss Alex]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
You can also find many other exercises if you click on the link to "Exercise and Muscle Directory" on the bottom.

correct, but you shouldn't look down on these, look up so your back stays arched.

 

[6-heads lewis]

When I hit an early plateau with bench, I used hammer strength flat bench for a few weeks, then went back to DB with improved strength. I also had problems maintaining form with deads at 200lbs, switched to hammer deads and got up to 310lbs with improved form, then went back to BB deads and quickly shot to 300lbs.

I didnt gain any significant size in that time, but it did help me get past plateaus and force proper form. Make any machine usage temporary and a last resort.

 

[Throttle]

So what's the truth in all of this?

very little of what you've repeated is true.

the problem with machines is that they do not activate your stabilizers -- which for many exercises are a very significant part of the muscle used in a free weight motion. you gain much less practical strength from a machine.

a machine will not "tone" you... it will only build muscle much less efficiently. and dumbbells are less efficient than major compound lifts using barbells (which you didn't mention at all, though perhaps by dumbbells you mean all free weights).

most machines force you into unnatural movements. though some are better than others, it is impossible to design a machine that has an optimal range of motion for every body type.

if free weights intimidate you -- they should. all lifting should intimidate you if you don't know what you're doing. including machines. if you want to overcome this, you need to get yourself up to speed on proper form, rest & nutrition, which are far more important than machines vs. free weights. you can injure yourself either way, and waste a lot of time & energy if you don't have the rest of the pieces in place.

 

[Create Reality]

The only intimidation in weightlifting comes from inside you.

"Wah wah, I cant lift a lil dum dum bell because its big an heavy"































BE A MAN AND LIFT THAT DAMN WEIGHT!!!

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Amen.

Let me ask you something, WHY do free weights intimidate you?

 

[kickureface]

is bb>db?

 

[Skilla_Staz]

You can put on more weight with BBs, but DBs incorporate more stablizer muscles, due to the fact that each individual arm is allowed to move freely, as opposed to the BB, in which they are stuck at a certain distance


That being said, BBs are great for heavy compound movements like squats, bench, deads etc. (even though you can do DB presses, and those work quite well)

 

[Warboss Alex]

You can put on more weight with BBs, but DBs incorporate more stablizer muscles, due to the fact that each individual arm is allowed to move freely, as opposed to the BB, in which they are stuck at a certain distance

This is one of the biggest fallacies in bodybuilding, this whole retarded concept of 'stabiliser' muscles.

Skilla (or anyone else), please tell me which extra magical stabiliser muscles a dumbbell press needs that a barbell press doesn't.

 

[kickureface]

i keep getting confused whether i should do db presses or not. (incline and flat), any suggestions?

 

[cuzza]

I prefer DB bench over BB because I feel that with many exercises involving a bar, my strongest side takes over. I have this whole wierd idea that using dumbells will mean I'm more even... yep it's probably wierd but hey, I enjoy DB bench more anyway.

 

[Warboss Alex]

db benches are superior because of the greater potential for fascial stretching at the bottom of the press (key to growth), inclines more so. of course, work your way up to a 315 barbell incline bench for 10 reps and you won't be complaining about your pecs.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

WBA. I'm not saying that there are these little "muscles" that help you remain stable, but the fact that you have to keep the weight from flying all over the place makes the exercise more difficult on the target muscle groups BECAUSE they have to keep the weight stable.

 

[Warboss Alex]

WBA. I'm not saying that there are these little "muscles" that help you remain stable, but the fact that you have to keep the weight from flying all over the place makes the exercise more difficult on the target muscle groups BECAUSE they have to keep the weight stable.

lol.. everyone throws the word 'stabiliser' about like it's something magical, that's all. "Don't do barbell, do dbs because it works your stabilisers more" or "don't do the smith machine because it doesn't involve your stabilisers" .. the simple fact is that it takes more strength to control dumbbells than it does to control a barbell.. but all exercises use EXACTLY the same muscle groups. Same for the smith machine, a close grip bench on the smith involves exactly the same muscles as the freeweight close grip bench.. it's just that freeweights are harder and require more strength so your gains will be better.

seriously, some people (not you Skilla, just in general) say stabilisers like they think that two bbers, one who uses 315 on the incline barbell for 10 reps and one who presses the 120lbers for 10 reps or whatever are gonna somehow have different muscular development, it'll be EXACTLY the same provided all else is equal (genetics etc).