LTR - Not sure how to handle this issue.....

[Dr.Suave]

@catsmeow2

Imagine your husband announcing he´s going on vacation with a friend. This friend just happens to be a hot 18 year old "lesbian" you have never met. Lol

 

[Dr.Suave]

Laughing with ya not at ya.

I know girl. Love ya.

"It's ludicrous that some people (not here) think this is acceptable behavior in a committed relationship." Femin@zis, self-proclaimed queens, and self proclaimed boss-girls; no doubt.

"got temp banned for two days" And they probably called you a "pick-me" or something like that.

 

[Vero Della Rosa]

Boys, in this scenario every woman gives an instant gut response, & we men have 3-page long hamsterwheel session about it - the women have the right play. Who's gonna learn from'em in that regard? What does our conscience, our gut tell us?

I'm not sayin it's easy - you're judged for your character, so when you draw hard lines you face contempt from women. But in times like this one you gotta look through that. It's not you. It's her. In this sorta thing it isn't us. It's her.

@Free_Agent: Be reasonable. Just lay out the boundary. If she disagrees & pushes again, then lay out the consequences firmly but chill:

Move 1: You really don't wanna live a lie to yourself and others. So if you feel like it's wrong, say it to her. "You being in a relationship and wanting to go to a party island, with or without a dude, isn't right. I'm not at all ok with it." Say it.

Move 2: If she contests, stay calm but face the challenge of it with a touch of grit and eye contact. Something like, "I won't be in a relationship like that. You're askin too much, & I'd never ask you to accept me doing what you wanna do right now."

You know you wanna say this. Do it.

That's all I got

 

[Free_Agent]

Boys, in this scenario every woman gives an instant gut response, & we men have 3-page long hamsterwheel session about it - the women have the right play. Who's gonna learn from'em in that regard? What does our conscience, our gut tell us?

I'm not sayin it's easy - you're judged for your character, so when you draw hard lines you face contempt from women. But in times like this one you gotta look through that. It's not you. It's her. In this sorta thing it isn't us. It's her.

@Free_Agent: Be reasonable. Just lay out the boundary. If she disagrees & pushes again, then lay out the consequences firmly but chill:

Move 1: You really don't wanna live a lie to yourself and others. So if you feel like it's wrong, say it to her. "You being in a relationship and wanting to go to a party island, with or without a dude, isn't right. I'm not at all ok with it." Say it.

Move 2: If she contests, stay calm but face the challenge of it with a touch of grit and eye contact. Something like, "I won't be in a relationship like that. You're askin too much, & I'd never ask you to accept me doing what you wanna do right now."

You know you wanna say this. Do it.

That's all I got

Thanks Vero and everyone.

Vero - I went about it pretty much as you laid out. We were having a few vodka sodas and we just chatting and talking about her situation with the ex and we got on the topic of this trip. I basically said "This trip is inappropriate and unacceptable and I'm not cool with it". I got all kinds of initial responses from her. I was expecting them and I just stood firm . She came back at me with responses I knew she would : "What I can't have friends and hang out with them?" and "He's gay!!" along with "Don't you trust me?".

After a while of chatting ( no fighting just open conversation ) she's like "Why don't you come?"

Not sure I'm feeling like I want to be the 3rd wheel. It just looks, and I'm sure will feel....pathetic.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Not sure I'm feeling like I want to be the 3rd wheel. It just looks, and I'm sure will feel....pathetic.

I think you have a good point there. Looks like she wants you between a rock and a hard place.

 

[The Duke]

Thanks Vero and everyone.

Vero - I went about it pretty much as you laid out. We were having a few vodka sodas and we just chatting and talking about her situation with the ex and we got on the topic of this trip. I basically said "This trip is inappropriate and unacceptable and I'm not cool with it". I got all kinds of initial responses from her. I was expecting them and I just stood firm . She came back at me with responses I knew she would : "What I can't have friends and hang out with them?" and "He's gay!!" along with "Don't you trust me?".

After a while of chatting ( no fighting just open conversation ) she's like "Why don't you come?"

Not sure I'm feeling like I want to be the 3rd wheel. It just looks, and I'm sure will feel....pathetic.

So what are you going to do next? I don't see where your conversation accomplished anything.

 

[Free_Agent]

So what are you going to do next? I don't see where your conversation accomplished anything.

I know. She is one stubborn and resistive woman. She thinks it's OK to take a trip like this. I'm the one that's being irrational and controlling. But I knew as well as pretty much everyone here that that tactic was going to be in play here.

So now she's saying that, even though I didn't outright tell her not to go, I am in fact, controlling her, by telling her that I'm not OK with it and never will be.

I mean what is most peoples thoughts/feelings towards their LTR/wife/serious GF going on girls, trips, solo trips, etc?

 

[Dr.Suave]

I mean, am I being unreasonable saying that I find it odd?

No. Girls think its ok to go on trips with another man or get a massage from Chad but they are not so cool when you turn the tables.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Quoting @catsmeow2 "I think she's bluffing about you going. She knows you won't.

But ya know what, tell her yeah that sounds great! When do we leave?!!

And then watch her scramble around finding excuses why you can't."

This is great stuff. Do it. Call her bluff. Pretend you are going with them.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Thanks mate, I just deleted that post.

I dont get why. It was your best advice yet!

 

[ThisIsSparta]

I mean what is most peoples thoughts/feelings towards their LTR/wife/serious GF going on girls, trips, solo trips, etc?

Feelings are for women.

As i see it you already brought the topic to her.

If you are of any worth to the woman she will not go.

No point in wasting your time any longer. If she goes, she needs to be terminally gone for you!

No "if´s" and "but´s" and "please dont go´s".

Men do not negotiate with terrorists.

 

[The Duke]

I know. She is one stubborn and resistive woman. She thinks it's OK to take a trip like this. I'm the one that's being irrational and controlling. But I knew as well as pretty much everyone here that that tactic was going to be in play here.

So now she's saying that, even though I didn't outright tell her not to go, I am in fact, controlling her, by telling her that I'm not OK with it and never will be.

I mean what is most peoples thoughts/feelings towards their LTR/wife/serious GF going on girls, trips, solo trips, etc?

I always like to crack the door open and see how they react. Let them show you who they are, then you can decide if you want to keep them around or not.

A solid girl would not be going on a trip like this without their man. A solid girl would have asked her man from the start, not as a consolation offer after he put pressure on her.

This girl isn't good LTR material.

I don't think girls going on trips with their girlfriends is a bad deal at all either. But this isn't what this is.

 

[Dr.Suave]

This girl isn't good LTR material.

I think we can all agree with this. Why is op still dealing with her? Scarcity mentality?

 

[Stanley]

Quoting @catsmeow2 "I think she's bluffing about you going. She knows you won't.

But ya know what, tell her yeah that sounds great! When do we leave?!!

And then watch her scramble around finding excuses why you can't."

This is great stuff. Do it. Call her bluff. Pretend you are going with them.

Hilarious use of agree and amplify, I like it. That said I still think the trip isn't the real issue at hand. The interactions with the ex and seeds of doubt she's planted are. Forget letting her know about your feelings on the trip, just rip the bandaid off.

 

[Vero Della Rosa]

Good on ya for saying what you thought. That's good. 100% @Stanley is right, though - I missed the part about the ex. Rip off the bandaid. The fact that you pushed that urge down when you found out what she was doing a long time ago fixed you on a downward trajectory.

Women instinctually get romance in ways guys don't - an exclusive, intense bond that cannot be broken. (uninterested in debates on this definition - there are nuances and contexts)

So with that context, the fact that they are so absolutely dead set on locking down a guy to be exclusive, when they do something shady and then he overlooks her directly cheating on him they know that a side of that man that demands respect isn't coming out. He isn't respectable, so they push and they flip that instinctual energy onto the guy: She dictates, she dominates, she lays the blueprint for how everything's goin down - and he sits there and submits and takes it.

Your energy isn't that. You're raw, powerful, dominant, and don't deal with bs. She needs to learn that doing things like that has consequences and what she's doing now has consequences.

Tell her her crime and the sentence! - Tell her what she did wrong, and break up with her. Refuse her framing decisions, values, etc. She's cheated on you and now expects you to be cool with going to a party island with a dude.

This sucks to say, but she's sucked in by the flights, and everything else you're doin for her. Rip it off. Do it.

p.s. if that ticket is coming out of your pocket... cancel the flight. "You aren't paying for anything." If so, do it before you talk to her.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

As a woman, I agree with a lot of this^ and the sad part is @Free_Agent you could have had this girl wanting to commit to YOU and only you had you played it differently, more in line with what's posted above (bolded specifically).

She accuses you of being controlling, but as it stands now, it appears SHE is the one controlling you (mentally and emotionally) and she knows it.

Because of that, her respect for you is gone or if not totally gone, very close to. No woman who respected her man would ever speak to him the way she spoke to you. This is done.

I'm sorry man.

The clues have been there all along and she has likely been giving him chances to help himself out but he likely kept blowing them and now he is at the point he is.

 

[Free_Agent]

Good on ya for saying what you thought. That's good. 100% @Stanley is right, though - I missed the part about the ex. Rip off the bandaid. The fact that you pushed that urge down when you found out what she was doing a long time ago fixed you on a downward trajectory.

Women instinctually get romance in ways guys don't - an exclusive, intense bond that cannot be broken. (uninterested in debates on this definition - there are nuances and contexts)

So with that context, the fact that they are so absolutely dead set on locking down a guy to be exclusive, when they do something shady and then he overlooks her directly cheating on him they know that a side of that man that demands respect isn't coming out. He isn't respectable, so they push and they flip that instinctual energy onto the guy: She dictates, she dominates, she lays the blueprint for how everything's goin down - and he sits there and submits and takes it.

Your energy isn't that. You're raw, powerful, dominant, and don't deal with bs. She needs to learn that doing things like that has consequences and what she's doing now has consequences.

Tell her her crime and the sentence! - Tell her what she did wrong, and break up with her. Refuse her framing decisions, values, etc. She's cheated on you and now expects you to be cool with going to a party island with a dude.

This sucks to say, but she's sucked in by the flights, and everything else you're doin for her. Rip it off. Do it.

p.s. if that ticket is coming out of your pocket... cancel the flight. "You aren't paying for anything." If so, do it before you talk to her.

As a woman, I agree with a lot of this^ and the sad part is @Free_Agent you could have had this girl wanting to commit to YOU and only you had you played it differently, more in line with what's posted above (bolded specifically).

She accuses you of being controlling, but as it stands now, it appears SHE is the one controlling you (mentally and emotionally) and she knows it.

Because of that, her respect for you is gone or if not totally gone, very close to. No woman who respected her man would ever speak to him the way she spoke to you. This is done.

I'm sorry man.

Yes, I ****ed up massively. I hadn't found RP until I started seeing things that my gut was telling me wasn't normal behavior. Found some sub reddits and other places and began to learn about red flags.

5 months into the relatiohship she was telling me I'm the guy she was gonna marry. A month later the NEXT day after we come home from a 5 day trip to Cabo she's lying to me and going out with the ex.

I was naive and ignorant. I was out of the dating scene for nearly 20 years and my ex-wife was actually an excellent woman so I had no exposure to what seems to be the current wasteland of women and OLD

 

[SW15]

I had no exposure to what seems to be the current wasteland of women and OLD

Your perspective intrigues me. I never married and my LTRs have been far shorter than yours. In the past 20+ years, I've gotten more exposure to the toxicity than most. I am also an early Millennial, and the Millennial generation has been a disaster in the mating environment. One could make the argument that things were declining with Gen X. A lot of the infamous pickup artists/Manosphere people (Rollo Tomassi, Rich Cooper, Roosh, Heartiste, Mystery, Neil Strauss, etc.) are all Gen X'ers.

 

[nzrod]

Thanks

She’s a hard read. I swear I’m dealing with a red pilled woman. Everything I’ve ready here and elsewhere she’s gaming me with. Plate…it’s funny we joked about it yesterday . She wants commitment from me. I wouldn’t mind it but I also don’t like other men ****ing my woman .

Trust has been compromised.

To complicate this more is one of the red flags she’s displayed is keeping the ex on the back burner. About 8 months in I found her lying to me and going out to dinner with him. About a year later caught her still txting him and deleting txt history. During our hiatus - she went away with this guy - paid for her, her sister and sisters BF to go to Bahamas for 4 days.

I’m torn thinking this guy alpha widowed her or he’s beta duck who she’s using him. We’re both successful entrepreneurs. Successful. Made. I have almost unlimited freedom outside of when I have my kids. She and I fly business anywhere we want when we want so she’s treated well.

Sex is almost always initiated by her and she’s willing to do mostly anything. I **** her2-5x a week on average and she organisms multiple times so I don’t think I’m falling short there

Gay friend I’ve heard her mention Him a few times . Never met him. She says she knows him from HS / Church. Lately I’ve been wondering if she’s going away with the ex.

Man I’m a mess

You need to meet the "gay" guy. If you dont meet him, she aint going, or she is going and you are over. OR - you go with her.

 

[Vero Della Rosa]

@Free_Agent you could have had this girl wanting to commit to YOU and only you had you played it differently, more in line with what's posted above (bolded specifically).

Yes, I ****ed up massively. I hadn't found RP

No offense to meow but don’t use plays or moves or imitate. Decide who you are or at least who you wanna be. Have a vision. Pursue it.

‘What do I accept and not accept? What am I seeking in my life that I will not be deterred from? What virtues do I believe in and wanna work to embody?’ -This won’t fully fulfill ya, but it’ll go along way when interactin with others.

Don’t get that mindset of bein a female brain flip switcher. That ain’t a man. That’s avoidin pain. Be an actual hero.

This seems like a nuance but PUA / RP has a tendency of morphin men into personas rather than men.