LTR....need expert advice. This is serious stuff.

[Poet]

Hey gang, Poet here, as some may know I have been seeing this girl (Alicia). She has a psycho ex husband who tries to make her life hell. Her situation. She has a 3 1/2 year-old son. Hold's down 3 jobs. We can only see each other every other weekend & sometimes on Wednesdays. Our time together is very little. We work together but that is more of a frustration than a blessing as we never have a moment alone together. We talk on the phone & e-mail. This has been going on since December. Well, Alicia finally told me yesterday that she thot we should not see each other anymore becuase she wants to be with me full time, not try to have a relationship where she has to scratch for every free moment we have. It is very frustrating for both of us. The thing is, I love this woman a lot & she knows it. She feels these same emotions.

Her ex is certifiable psycho material. Alicia has a home security system, a dog, a gun & soon a servellience camera she will be setting up. She is under a lot of pressure & I feel if I pressure her too much she will be lost to me. I have not ever gone to her house because of this situation. I know all the stuff she is going thru. She is a truly good woman & I do not want to loose this woman to this situation. However, I need to not pressure her because pressure is what she has from everyone & everything in her life.

She is always buying me gifts. Just 2 days ago she bought me "Gladiator" the movie, along with a note. Then the very next day she announced that we shouldn't date anymore because of all these issues.

Here is an e-mail I got from her yesterday....

Dearest Poet,
 
Thank you for your thoughts and feelings.  I too can write down my thoughts better than I can convey them when speaking to someone.  Especially since we have very little time to truly talk without a barrage of people who also need our attention.  So here goes.........
 
On or about July 4th of last year I saw a man that was very focused and distant from me.  He was attractive and intelligent, but distant from me.  I had heard that he was a "Romeo" type and I was not looking for that kind of a person to hook up with. In fact I was not interested in any man.  I had dated a man much younger than I and he had very strong feelings about me.  He wanted very much to be a part of my life.  My children liked him and so did I.  Before we had a chance to try and work things through he became a part of , for lack of a better term, " my daily torture".  Twice he tried to hang in there and twice he was given a dose of what loving me would mean.   He could not take it. (She is referring to the psycho ex hubby)  I understood.  I resolved that I could not have a relationship for some time, in fact I thought perhaps never.  September came and I had a chance to tell someone what a cool name I thought he had.  It is a very cool name.  This very distant man began to talk to me and smile.  I liked that.  When it seemed like it would be nice to spend time with this person I was hesitant.  Would he be scared, hurt or just leave?  Well, I thought just dating someone is a healthy thing and so far he seems nice.  I was thrilled to share time with him at the BBQ and then later for New Years.  I did not expect him to be a person who I could share things with.  But he was.  Still cautious and extremely afraid of feeling too much, I tried to give him what time I could.  He was patient, understanding and kind.  Then I found myself wanting to do more, say more and struggled to balance my days.  How could I fit this in and give us a chance?  I told myself , " well we are just dating and it may take some time".  Then I realized that his feelings for me went beyond that.  (perhaps he does fall in love once every two or three months, but I believed what he said.)  Suddenly the "survivor" walls went up.  I wanted to let them go  many times.  He is a different person.  Not every man will end up hurting me.  We deserve more.  Then I realized it was not about the man or me directly.  More like a lasting affect from many "hurts" that at present have a profound impact on what I do the moment I wake up in the morning till I go to sleep at night.  Yes, I do work very hard to hold on to the part of my life that is good.  My prayer is that I will not have to work so much, that ***** and ******* will have a solid person to influence them as they grow, that I will not have to sleep with the lights on or be afraid any more and that someone will love me without any fear.  My faith is that these thing will happen.  For now it is all I can do to stay some what balanced.  Still here are all these feelings and desires that  truly make my head spin.  This important person is still on my mind all the time.  I want very much to have someone to share my life with, but I want to give that person all of me.  Not just part of me here or there.  I want to wake up and see him every morning, listen to his daily "stuff", share new things without trying to squeeze just one more minute in, go on long walks, laugh at stupid things, argue about what the best part of a movie was, sip tequila and make love all night with total trust.  Yes, I guess I want a lot.  Too ideal?  Maybe.  I want more for this person and I want more me.  So now I need to say goodbye because I want more.  The terrible part is that he is willing and able to give more and at this time in my life I feel I can't.  What will time bring?  Maybe a psychic could say, but I only know that I  am glad you smiled back at me.  I will think of you often and if by chance (or an act of God) things change for me I would like to think I could still talk with you, share coffee and a smoke and take one day at a time. 
 
There, was that a mouthful or what. I feel very sad to think that you are sad and I wish that I could make it better. I do mean it Poet when I say XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO's  Ali

Needless to say, I have shown a lot to this woman & we both have very strong feelings for one another. I need some advice on how to proceed. I do not want to loose her, pressure her or make her life more complicated. Short of hiring a hitman to take out the ex I am at a loss. Kidding about the hitman reference. My thot is to be here for her & keep the channels open & hope her situation improves. To let her know I am still here for her. Any feedback? This is a serious issue & I need some serious advice here please. This woman is truly one in a million, just my luck she has all this crap going on. Thanks, Poet

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The cat that walks alone...

 

[BigBadJon]

Ain't that the luck! Any time you find a good one there has to be some sort of hang up.

I'll make this brief.

All you can do is give her space. Tell her you are there for her if she needs anything. Wait it out, but at the same time LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE.

She obviously has problems that you can't help her resolve. Life has a funy way of working things out in the long run, so hopefully if she is everything you say she is one day things will get better.

BTW.....not to change the subject, but hows the rommate situation? Don't know if you have kept up on my situation, but I'm HOOKED UP to say the least

 

[Peak]

Hey Poet,

I read the letter twice and know where you are coming from. I know that you want to cling to this and in many ways you should, but not in the way that you want.

Who knows what the future holds for you two. This woman needs to sort herself out, by herself. It's the only way that she can regain her old life. She knows that and is asking you to let her do it.

I think that the only way to have a chance to keep this woman for good is to let her go now. You have to let go and tell her to come and see you when, and if, she manages to sort out her life. If she does it may be bliss for you two. Maybe you will find another woman in the mean time and this will be past history, albeit still close to your heart, but history nevertheless.

In summary all you can do is to take the blow and leave her be. If you force the issue that you should stay together you will lose her for good. If you just let her go now, then you may only lose her for the short term.

Your choice. I know what I would do.

Good luck.

 

[mrblue1022]

Hey Poet. I think I am going to have to disagree with Peak on this one. I read her email to you several times and it sounds like she is crying out for something. Based on what I have read in your past posts about this woman, this is how I would respond if I got her email.

Hey you. I had a feeling that I would be getting a note like this from you, and I understand the unecessary pressure that has been put on you by your situation. I am sure you have realized that my feelings for you run deeper then just an office fling, and that I grown to appreciate the person that you are in the time that I have known you. That's why I can honestly say that no matter what difficulties you are facing, I want to be there for you. I want you to wipe your tears on my shirt sleeve. I want to to reach for my hand when you get knocked down. I want you to lean on me when you have had a hard day. I want you to trust in the fact that I could never bring myself to hurt you in anyway. I want you to know that I am your friend above all else, and that I will be there for you.

This is taking into account that you actually feel this way and are wanting to make that type of committment. Either way you go, best of luck to both of you.

By the way, I know I good hitman, if you are interested.

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I am the best there is at what I do, even though what I do isn't always very nice.

 

[Poet]

Thanks Jon, Peak & all.....just gotta let her know I am here for her & see what happens...no genius plan other than to keep talking & hope for the best. The roomy is workin out fine.....we get crazy & she is a lot of fun but we R not foolin around.....more as it develops on this situation...I will keep U all posted. Poet

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The cat that walks alone...

 

[Patroclus82]

Poet, I have seen that you have invested quite a bit in this relationship, and from what I know about you, you are not a person who will give up without a fight.

That's why I think Mr Blue's advice is the right course, but perhaps you could jazz it up a bit with your poetic styles.

Good luck in your quest for romance.

Laters

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Absolute Intrigue.

 

[the prince]

Poet

I understand your dilemma...I've dealt with a couple women like this. So, some thoughts...

First of all, you seem to have strong feelings for this girl...but now is the time to really evaluate these more deeply. This whole thing is a test and you should be true to your feelings above all else.

Second of all, this is a test. It’s possible that a woman’s logic tells her “if you want more from a man, break up with him” and she thinks this is right, but what’s more likely is that this is a subconscious game her brain is playing to break barriers.

Here’s the deal. I’m not a psychologist, I’m just a guy…but this all sounds familiar. She’s obviously been deeply hurt, more than once. She’s put up walls to protect herself and they’ve been there so long that she’s learned to stand on top and use this position to judge everyone who comes near. This leaves her terrified and judgmental. One thing in her letter strikes me,

“Twice he tried to hang in there and twice he was given a dose of what loving me would mean. He could not take it.”

Consider the perspective of this sentence. Forget what she’s saying, but think of it in terms of high school english. The perspective is omniscient, but from inward out. I mean, she’s not saying “it didn’t work”, she’s saying “he couldn’t take it”. Her walls are so high that her perspective is still rooted deep within her own mind. She’s still thinking about relationships outward from her own self, not in terms of “us” or “we”. So she’s still not really ready to share…she wants you to give. Have you noticed that she doesn’t (until the final sentence) refer to “you” or “us”? This woman is very detached from her emotional reality…and, still, from you.

I say she wants you to give because she doesn’t trust you. Her problem, not yours (unless you’ve done things you haven’t told us about). But crossing the river of pride and trust is hard…you can’t really love someone if you don’t get past these currents. You can play the field, but never really love. So she’s been hurt and she’s waiting for you to prove you won’t hurt her…then she’ll trust you.

So, it’s a test, but it’s also a cry for help. She’s not doing this consciously, but subconsciously…so don’t blame her for trying to ‘play’ you. I’d say she has a lot of trouble trusting people and this is her way of testing how much she can trust you.

That’s how I see this situation. The question is really “What do you want?” Do you love this woman? Are you willing to endure the hardships of her past pain coming up again and again…because it will. She has issues, but everyone does. You have to consider this, then feel it, then decide whether it’s worth the chaos.

At first glance, this sounds like supplication…why would anyone want to be with a woman who has such issues? But if you have feelings for a woman, those are real and you should keep in mind that real love (if you believe in it) requires real feelings…and to be happy in love, you have to come to the understanding that it requires sacrifice. “The 48 Laws of Power” are all well and good if you’re picking up girlies at the club, but it doesn’t apply to this thing called “love”. Love is about sharing, power isn’t.

That’s the theoretical…how about the practical? dunno…this side always stumps me. Maybe she will solve these issues on her own by being apart from you, but I’d say it’s a trust issue and you can’t do THAT alone. Her logic is flawed…she thinks that by leaving, she can repair herself and come back. Maybe…but if you work together, maybe 1) you solve the trust issue faster and more cleanly, and 2) you enjoy each other’s company along the way.

I would proceed honestly here. A bit of talking might help. Make it clear that you don’t want to pressure her, but exactly why does she think breaking up is going to help. If you can lead her down that path logically, she’ll realize that it’s a trust issue and this ‘breakup’ is her running away from it. Sure, everybody needs space to deal with problems, but you don’t learn to trust other people by separating yourself from them…and that’s what I think this is all about.

You're dealing with a wounded animal.

 

[Poet]

the prince:
I think U have hit the nail on the head. I know for a fact that she has a trust issue with men. She has been under a lot of pressure for a long long time. Several times she has voiced this fear of "trust". This woman was raped by a now convicted serial rapist some years ago. It was very terrifying for her. He got into her house & snuck to the foot of her bed in the middle of the night. Her son was in the room with her. It must have been very very emotionally scarring for her. But yet she is the most gentle, kind, caring woman I have ever met.

Now she has her ex who is constantly harrassing her in (so far) ways that cannot lead to a restraining order. I have several issues here. One: I have a daughter who's safety I do not want to comprimise Two: She has a son who has shared custody (every Wed & every other weekend). Three: He lives right down the street evidently & is always driving by checking to see if cars are parked. He calls on weekends constantly from pay phones, he has shot out the windows of this other guy's car after he spent the night....(no one witnessed this but it was him) A lot of ****. This guys goes ballistic in the court room (they are in a custody battle) he yells at the lawyers & the judge!

Now I need to decide how I can make her trust me totally. If I prodeed to go over there & try to make things more "normal" This ex will ratchet up his harrassement of her. I do not want her or our children harmed. I can defend myself but there are innocents involved here.

I must think this out carefully. I do not want to loose her. I want her to trust me totally. She has built up some very high walls indeed. Yesterday I told her "I will wait for U" She said "Will U?"...It is a trust issue......More soon, I will re-read your post, please add anything (to all of U) now that U have this additional info. Thanks, Poet

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The cat that walks alone...

 

[Peak]

Hey Poet,

I strongly disagree with the Prince. If this is truly a cry for help then I would say DON'T help her. The Prince advises that you stick in there and give it a shot to sort out her problems. However, I have two points that suggest that this is NOT the way to go.

1) She said that the other guy tried twice to help her, but that he couldn't go the distance. Who knows what the situation was really like? We only have her subjective opinion on it. What I do know is that once this guy accepted her challenge it's very easy for her to keep shifting the boundaries. Once he takes the test, she keeps making it harder for him. If she truly wanted him she would have made it easy for him, not harder. It just shows that she didn't want him to pass. Actually, I think that by taking the test of riding out her problems with her he was destined to fail. I think he would have passed it by letting her sort out the problems herself.

2) I know from personal experience with women that when you help them they fawn over you and love you for it. However, when they get better you are no longer useful to them. In fact your pity is seen as part of the old problem, which they no longer wish to be associated with. That's why they always eventually dump the helpers...lust is lost.

My final comment is in regards to feelings. Feelings: we all have them. We love them. We hate them. One thing I know is that logic and feelings are commonly two different things, especially with regards to women.
We have thousands of case studies on this web site that tell us that as soon as the guy lets his feelings for a woman take control of his life that he is stepping into a bear trap.

I think that you are so close to being caught in such a trap that I am attempting to retrieve you from that dangerous territory. I know you have been burnt before. I don't want it to happen again. I think if you follow the Princes advice that you will get burnt, badly.

My advice once again is to step back and let her follow her own path, it's the only way to truly know if she wants you in her life. More importantly, it gives you a chance to decide whether you really want to be in hers. remember, you are the uncomplicated on here. I never go out with women who have more problems than myself...cause eventually all there hassles fall onto you. Is that what you really want...more hassles? Iw ouldn't have thought so.

Be careful, and try to keep your heart out of it, even if just for a few seconds.

 

[BigBadJon]

Poet, I hate to look at the glass as half empty, but in this case I have no choice.

It doesn't matter how sweet, wonderful, caring, or otherwise PERFECT this woman is, she has PROBLEMS that you CANNOT solve.

Life is complicated enough when you have to deal with your OWN set of problems, let alone trying to take on someone elses.

If you are strong enough GO FOR IT. But after a couple of live in LTR's and dating several other girls, I have concluded that a relationship should improve your life, not make it more difficult.

If you have to spend the next few years packing heat and constantly looking over your shoulder, thats NOT improving your life.

To sum things up......you better make DAMN sure you wanna spend the rest of your life with this girl before you commit to this game.

 

[Poet]

Peak:& BBJ:

I have given this a LOT of thought. We talked for about an hour or maybe 1 1/2 hours last night. Some of it serious some of it just laughing & visiting. She agrees that trust is a big issue with her. She told me she wants to work on that with me. I am willing to help her get through this but I need to hear it from her. I need to have her tell me she wants me regardless of how complicated her life is. If she can do that I am willing to go the distance, otherwise I am not. Now it's Saturday & I know she took her son to a parade & there is a party at one of the co-worker's houses tonight that she is going to for awhile with her son. If she really wanted to make a go at it I think she could have asked me to go with her & her son or perhaps called me today. But no...she doesn't trust me with her emotions that much at least today.

It's time for me to go out tonight & see what kinda scene I can find for myself. I am not going to pine away like a wimp for this woman. Her & I have talked. She needs to reach out to me. If not I am not going to linger in misery forever for her. Gotta go..Poet


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The cat that walks alone...

 

[Peak]

Sounds like the Poet-of-old is re-surfacing....great to hear!

 

[Poet]

Peak: & all.....Well, love sure is a suck situation. Never thot I would get into a mess like this one. Just goes to show what happens...I took this slow but real feelings develop when U R with someone like her. I sent an e-mail that capped everything I am feeling right now & "Prince" I borrowed some of your wordage & thoughts (a lot actually) in part cause I felt U focused on some important issues that really apply to this woman & her situation, hope U don't mind. This is what I sent her. It really is the last word I have to say on this because I think it is her issue & her decision ultimately. I can do no more at this point. I have not called since Friday. I sent a lot of e-mails pertaining to her situation on Saturday (her ex...legal aspects etc.) hence my refernces to sending a lot of e-mails in the note U will read..This is the only one recently that I sent which seriously addresses our personal issues as to the "relationship". I sent this last night. I feel this is my last attempt to reach out & allow her to walk with me. If not, I am not going to live a life full of sorrow & regret. I am willing to go the distance with her regardless of the consequences but not if she cannot make that same committement (back to the trust issue but that goes both ways). From July til December she never mentioned this situation with her ex. as far as the stalking & all. So I had a lot of time to get into this woman & develop emotions for her before she dropped that one on me (New Years eve in fact). Although to be fair it was not til November that we actually got a connection & a real interest. I am a little up-set that she allowed us to progress to a point where we had feelings for one another then pulled all this stuff out of the bag about the ex.....etc.

Anyway here is what I sent. How does this sound to U guys? I am trying to make this work in a way that allows her to have some control over all this but still be with me. Am I chasing ghosts here? Let me know.....The last thing I want to do is become "Locksmith" for those who remember him! But I must tell all of U. I truly love this woman. Yet at the same time I cannot throw my emotions to the wind & proceed to set myself up for sorrow & misery. I am doing no more than what I have done here. This is the last word for me. It is up to her. Poet

"Hope U had a great Saturday. Did U guys go to the parade? How was it? I put the new carberator in the truck & got excessively greasy & dirty...Also worked on the bike. Then I came inside & did a lot of thinking.....******** was with ****** (I am glad she has a best friend here). Then I took the bike for a  ride but the Harley is running a bit rough, need to change the plugs among other things...so I am in for the night. Still need to fine tune the carb on the truck tomorrow. Then we (*** & I) will go somewhere together & have a little adventure. ****** & **** got back from California a few hours ago & we all played cards & had a couple drinks.....Now it is quiet, almost midnight. I can now think & gather my thoughts......
 
My mind is one of my better assetts...I rely on it heavily at times! Ha ha, Seriously, I have given this some thought. So bear with me & let me plow through these things. I know this is a long letter. This should about cover it as far as our situation is concerned. I will not try to go back over old ground again. Here's what I am thinking.
 
You, me, both of us have endured a lot in our lives. So far seperately. But we have felt a lot of pain as far as relationships go. We have both been lied too, misled & had expectations that never amounted to anything of lasting worth & now, I feel (speaking for myself only) as if I have found someone that may only come along once in a lifetime.
 
Now we get a bit serious here. If U one day reach a point where U have real trust in me &  faith that I will never decieve U or intentionally hurt U then I can promise U these things I am about to say. This is the trust U may place in me one day if U decide to. First, I want U to know that I am willing to endure the hardships of your past pain coming up again and again…because it will. U have issues, so do I....but everyone does. We have to consider this, then feel it inside, then decide whether it’s worth it.
At first glance, this letter sounds like supplication…why would I want to be with a woman who has these issues? This is not to put blame on U or for U to feel as if U did anything wrong because U did not. It's just the circumstances we R in, unfortunately for both of us. So why put myself into this? A logical question. But if one has feelings for a woman, those are real and one should keep in mind that real love (if you believe in it & I know U do) requires real feelings…and to be happy in love, one has to come to the understanding that it requires sacrifice. Love is about trust & sharing, power isn’t. Power is about keeping things & using them. It is about controlling & having control.

Maybe you will solve these issues on your own by being apart from me, but as we talked about on the phone it’s to a large degree a  trust issue and you can’t do THAT alone. You perhaps felt, at least partly, that by stepping back from "us", you can repair yourself & your situation and come back. Maybe…but if we work together, maybe 1) we can solve these issues faster and more cleanly, and 2) we can enjoy each other’s company a bit at a time along the way. That doesn't mean we have to throw common sense to the wind. It means we could choose (together) to still make time for each other (as we are able) until we are able to walk together without these issues hanging over our heads. It means that we do things that help build trust. It doesn't mean we let our emotions have a field day & surge ahead as if there is no tomorrow. I assure U Ali  I do not desire to do that. It means that we might choose to try to make moments for one another even if it means enduring frustration & many days when we are apart from one another. It means I am willing to accept the loneliness of being apart from you even as I write this. It means that we would both be willing to make the effort to see one another when we are able.

But now I think of U & what U might feel inside. I will wait for U to feel the comfort U need in order to trust me & in order to come back together. If that is what U choose to do. And if that is what U wish of me. And this is not all about trust. It is also the pratical realities of your current situation. Yet still I ask U: Can we work together for a common goal? We will feel all those emotions that will tear at us & try to bring us down. The times I will miss you, the times I cannot share all those things that make up daily life. But I know I am strong enough to do this. I do not pretend to speak for U. Nor do I mean to imply that somehow I am stronger than U. U have much more to deal with than I do at this point in time. As you said before, You want to give so much, not just a moment here & there. No one is living this day to day except U. But here we are, there is no easy solution. I do not want to sit & do nothing. I would like to help you as I am able to. To get this all behind us as soon as possible. That's why I am trying to think of things to help end this whole situation. That's why I have sent these e-mails (a lot of them & I apologize for that). But this situation has been on my mind lately & writing U has helped me form my thoughts & feelings.

I want to proceed honestly here & slowly. And if that means that the pace U choose is to be apart for now (as U had expressed to me recently) then so be it. Yet, a bit of talking as we have done lately might help. If we can walk down this path logically, I feel we CAN solve this problem, this situation together. Sure, everybody needs space to deal with problems, but you don’t learn to trust other people by separating yourself from them…and that’s one of the issues we both have. Yet I do not want U to feel as if it is all too much. That life has become too complicated. I know too well all the commitements U have. U R a wonderful mother & a very responsible hard working person. I admire your courage, your faith & your strength very much. I know U have been thru a lot Ali. There can only be so many apples in the barrel as U said. I have told U a lot lately, maybe too much. Pressurring U is not my intention here. I just feel we have the choice to learn to trust one another & give each other the knowledge that we are working together. But I want you to think about these things...I know I have said a lot of  here.

Now I will quiet down & allow U the time U need.  I think it better if I NOT call U. And this is the reason why. I want to trust U. How? By knowing that U truly have a vested interest in me. That U really do not want me to be just a memory. A memory that someday may become a person in your life IF things are resolved with your present situation. So how (if U choose to) do U show that?  A test of trust. And it is this Ali. If U want to continue to walk this path albiet slowly with me then call me, reach out to me, to hear my voice & my thoughts.

So, a 3 part exercise in TRUST. Your decision totally.

The 1st test. Call me once a night for a week starting Monday. That is Monday thru Sunday. If it is late it doesn't matter, even If it is only to say goodnight......If U R out, U call, if U R sick, U call, if U R out of town, U call. If I am not in U leave a message. Then I will do the same. So that each week we entrust the other to keep this promise. This is not only trust but it is COMMUNICATION that keeps "us" alive. This would be our first test.

The 2nd test is this. Every Thursday we have lunch together. That is, I take U out & we get something to eat, even if it's just a coffee. This is trust that we are not afraid to be with one another & to be seen "together". Because U said U wanted to love without fear, well, this is a start. This is a test of FACING OUR FEARS.

The 3rd test is this. We commit to one day a month where we are together. We do not sit & hug & show affection. Indeed, this may be the wrong thing to do right now. We go places & experience things together. We find out things about one another. We accept that this is "our time" as small as it is. For instance, did U know I used to...? Hmmm well U'l just have to wait now won't ya?! This is a show of COMMITTMENT. This leads to trust.

So that's my genius plan...not sure how genius it is tho.....Bottom line is how U feel about it. None of this works if U really feel U want all or nothing. If that is how U truly feel inside at this point in time then U need to stick to it & tell me so....After our talks Friday at school & on the phone I felt that U would be open to these ideas...I promise I will not repeat this stuff. I feel this about covers it. If U have a better idea let me know. I promise to not barrage U with e-mails as I have recently...today I had a lot of thoughts on my mind.....So thank U for reading all this stuff. Poet"



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The cat that walks alone...

 

[ACTION]

Originally posted by Peak:
Hey Poet,

If this is truly a cry for help then I would say DON'T help her. The Prince advises that you stick in there and give it a shot to sort out her problems. However, I have two points that suggest that this is NOT the way to go.

Ahh, the fresh smell of a rose, but don't they all come with thorns?

 

[the prince]

Poet...

Hrm...wow. That's quite a letter. I don't mind that you used my words. I hope they help.

As for my thoughts, I'm ambivalent. On the one hand, you're reaching out to her. If you believe in love and you understand that love is about sharing, then this is a great thing...especially if you love this woman.

On the other hand, you're showing your hand. My first feeling with this letter is a bit overwhelming...and I think that'll be her feeling, as well. There's so much there...and it's so deep and personal. She's bound to recoil from this.

So what's my cohesive thought on this? Honestly? Good idea, but it may backfire on you. It's cool that you want to do these things for her and it's cool that you're willing to work for this relationship...but telling her all of this may be a mistake. Here's why:

If she can't trust, she has put a wall up. No big deal, you find a way over or around the wall. But if you stand at the gates and tell her you're coming over the wall, she'll get scared and build it higher. If you send flares to signal that you're coming around the back way, she'll add reinforcements to her flanks.

You really have to look at this wall of trust as a battle. She's not going to give in because you want her to. Actions speak louder than words and it's cool to tell her she can trust you, but something quite different to show her.

Specific advice? Hrm, a few ideas...

After so much talking, your situation might benefit from silence for a while...wait for her to respond...you've probably gone a little far with this, so wait for her to ease into it and come to you.

Re: The stalker guy. Play it cool. Don't let it interfere with your relationship. If you want to go see her, then go see her...forget this guy. This will show her that you want to be with her and THAT is what matters...not this stalker. By letting him intrude into your relationship, you are supplicating...you're showing that you're afraid of that confrontation.

The tests at the end. Every girl is different, but the last time I tried this, it backfired royally. It's okay to test, but maybe the best way to proceed with this is silently at first...after meeting you for coffee four thursdays in a row, maybe she'll catch on and get the hint.

Also, from your letter, I quote: "At first glance, this letter sounds like supplication…why would I want to be with a woman who has these issues?"

I see two mistakes here. First, you're giving her a thought. You're actually putting a thought in her head and it's NOT a good one. Maybe she didn't think that at all and now, suddenly, she does because you mentioned it? It's okay to rebut arguments she may have, but in cases of love, it sounds weak rather than thoughtful...wait until she complains before you argue.

Second, you said she has "issues"...bad buzz word. Yes, WE call them issues, but she calls them part of her soul. They're issues to us, but to her, they are scars. Next time, I would just use a different word or, better yet, don't reference them as a single group...that gives them power over her, and you.

The biggest thing I've picked up from reading this board is that women respond to action and emotion more than to words. This is especially hard for me as I'm a writer, both personally and professionally...so my greatest strength gets me into the most trouble. I asked a girl who she never asked me questions once and her reply was "because you tell me everything in your writing." Okay, so I stopping telling her everything and showing her my writing? Now she asks questions...

I prefer not to criticize because you're working hard here and you obviously care enough to make the effort. But I would recommend looking at this more like a dance. You're going to step on each other's feet, but that happens. Telling her where to step may help in the short term, but she won't like dancing with someone who tells her where to step. So guide her instead...show her how to dance. Show her how YOU like to dance. Make it fun for her...show her you can be trusted to lead. That's dancing.

You seem to care for this girl and that's awesome...those feelings are rare and you should hold onto them. But talk less and show more. I realize also that this letter may be a one-time thing...that maybe you don't write letters like this very often...okay, cool. Just don't make a habit of it or she'll go away.

okay, a postscript: as I reread your letter, I have two final thoughts. (yes, I know, this is getting long)

1) there is a difference between guiding and controlling...it's subtle, yes, but a woman can feel it. If you want something to contemplate, think on it...if you love her, guiding her is not wrong...but controlling her is.

2) Finally, I say you're brave for doing this. If you love her, you should fight for that love...others will deride it and tell you to stay away, but real love is worth the battle.

After all, it's all about dancing.

 

[Poet]

Originally posted by ACTION:
Ahh, the fresh smell of a rose, but don't they all come with thorns?

Yes they do...it is over for now...we have talked...I have nothing else to give but only to keep an open hand if she decide to take it. Otherwise I am moving on & she knows it..Poet



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The cat that walks alone...

 

[Poet]

the prince:
Thanks for your thots. Here is the last e-mail I sent her only moments ago. U caught me in the middle of it so I incorporated your "dance" theme cause I liked it. This is just a note to put a period on this whole thing. It is really her thots & emotions that must decide & time will tell the tale. But in truth I meant every word of it. No regrets & I would face Satan himself for this woman. But it takes two to make a pact. I am finished....it is in her hands now. Thanks all....I will up-date as I can & respond to your letter in detail tonight. I gotta go exercise. Then plan how to go meet more women!!! Unless I am called to duty by Alicia & truth be told, I am not holding my breath for that. Poet

"Well Angel, our dance it seems, is over for now. But perhaps one day we shall dance again. Forgive me if I pressured U. If U reach out for my hand, It will always be there for U, an hour from now or a hundred years from now. That, U can trust in, I give U that trust in me with no strings attached. I hope U do feel that U can still talk to me & share your thoughts. Perhaps not right now tho.
  
Now I must make some changes in my life. I need to get out more & experience more & meet new people. Do new things & get my head together. I need to change a lot about myself. I have held myself inside & protected myself from others too long. Having met U I realized that experiencing the company of someone special is not something I want to give up hope on. So I will go in search of someone to spend my moments with. That doesn't mean I have lost those feelings I have for U. It means I cannot throw away my life on something that may never happen. But if I am not involved with someone & U can meet me half way, today, tomorrow, a month from now or 5 years from now, I will be there. I will go the distance. I will go to your house, I will take time to share with U regardless of your situation. I do not want to walk away from this but if U feel it is not the right time or the right feeling then U must keep to your decision & I shall respect it.
 
I need to laugh more often. Lately not much seems funny. My daughter has been a real challenge lately & I fear I have not been as much of a disciplinarian as I needed to be. I feel in many ways I cannot do much because I do not like to leave my daughter unsupervised. I am sometimes over protective of her. But I am getting back into the gym & trying to do more things to be more sociable. I am getting involved in some clubs & activities as well.
 
I do love U Ali but not the kind of love that must possess. I love U enough not to call or write U any more unless U choose to initiate it. I love U enough to let U go & hope that one day we might find one another again. If not I have no regrets because U gave me a wonderful thing. The knowledge that I cannot give up on real emotions or real feelings. The knowledge that one day I may find someone that can love me as much as I do her.
 
I did send U a little something in the mail (last week)...it is a gift, in return for the one U bought me. When U get it I hope U like it (I think U will, just don't let ***** see it, it is too mature for him...there I go, too many hints) & ignore the words that I sent with it (if the thing arrives as it is supposed too!). Tho they R true, the message is not one sided...U have feelings as well. Just enjoy it (the gift) for what it is & remember these things I have said to U. I would walk through fire for you. To love U without fear....I can promise you I would. Even if it meant going through all the chaos that your ex can muster at me.
 
Well, to wrap this up, there will be days when I will get some coffee & perhaps have a smoke & a chuckle with ya & there will be days when I will be filled up with emotions & probably not come by. It will take time to get myself together. If I do not come by some days, it is not out of hate or anger. And U can walk to my office as well ya know! If U want to do lunch or spend time, need a hand with the camera or whatever, just say so. So....no more calls or e-mail.....unless U want to call or write me. It was a wonderful dance Ali, I hope in my heart that one day we can dance again to beautiful music. I am done with words...
 
OK! We need humor! BTW Did ya like that last one? Kinda bad.....but funny....Poet

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The cat that walks alone...

 

[Poet]

the prince: & all
OK...here's the latest. I saw Ali today (truly by accident). We talked about little things (fluff...movies, work etc.) It was not forced or uncomfortable at all...we both were glad to talk to each other. Then I told her how bad I felt about putting all those emotions on her & the moment was too much for me. I started to get tears in my eyes & Ali looked at me & said "Do U want to go for a walk?" She had class starting but had her assistant take over so we walked & talked for about 10 minutes. To put some background on this, Ali was literally crying in front of me in the hallway at the school last week when she made that decision that we shouldn't date anymore. She said "I told my sister all the things I wanted in a man & now I have found U & I must let U go." SO heavy emotions all the way around.

In part (as we walked) I told her how I felt as if I had this heavy stone inside my chest & I was dragging an anchor behind me...(true thots my friends!) she told me how she had confided in her sister last night. She is also going thru some tuff times in her life & although she did not give, nor did I ask for details about what they said concerning us, she told me in part that her sister now had someone in her life who cares a lot for her, went to her recent foot surgery with her & was with her all the way (something her ex husband never would do). So I know she has a lot on her mind. I know I am in her thoughts a lot as well. She told me she needs time to sort this all out. That she has "not been able to think a lot...it is all too overwhelming, just too much" on her mind. She really has not processed this situiation. But she knows I could care less about this ex of hers. I am not letting that stand in the way of us. She said over Easter break / Spring break she is not doing a lot but staying home & would have time. She said "I am taking a one day class (mining) then we go on a field trip to the field the next day, other than that I am not doing anything" I told her I would be glad to spend some time with her...she nodded her head in approval of that remark. She said she appreciated my honesty & real feelings & that was very important to her & she would not have it any other way. It is clear she still has very strong feelings about me. We also talked about some things I had of her's (stuff from school) & that she would be happy to swing by today & get it but I told her not to worry, that it was safe til I could get it to her. I did not want to make her feel as if I "needed" to have her come by. This also re-inforced the statements I made about her needing her space, which she does. Besides if she came over this soon I am afraid I would not keep my emotions in check & probably would have gone too far. She needs some time with her thoughts without me so close to her. Also I told her if she needed me to come over to do some things (stuff we had talked about before) it was no problem..I said "I will come over there, I don't care about your ex". She said "OK"..So she is accepting that this is not an issue with me, & I also said "besides maybe it will help end this situation sooner."

Now if I can keep my mouth shut & not call or write her til she does I think we have a chance....I told her "Do U think we can turn back the hands of time & I can again be that aloof, quiet guy U used to know & just take it one day at a time, just take it slow?" She didn't say no...she smiled & I know in my heart she wants this as much as I do. So if I give her the time she needs I feel we have a chance. In the end, it does not matter what obstacles we have to face because I love this woman enough to face them. I know she needs her space tho. I am most certainly going to give it to her.

Well no more to tell my friends. I must confess, I have not felt real love like this in a long long time & I do not want to walk away from it, regardless of the fires I ahve to walk thru....But I must wait & see. U guys know more about this than anyone I have talked to except Ali....keep me in your thoughts & prayers if U do pray. I do, every day my friends. This is no laughing matter. It is life when U have real emotions for real people. Sometimes it sucks but living otherwise is not for me. I have kept myself hardened for a long time....now I must be patient & regardless, I have not nor will I ever stop looking for someone like her. But I hope it is her. Poet

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The cat that walks alone...

 

[NEANDERTHAL SUPERSOLDIER]

U do realize that some women(no matter how great they r) are undatable.

U cant save her from herself and it is her, not her ex, although he adds to it. U r the classic guy trying to save the girl. I did that once with a girl that was doing drugs. Forget saving people.

I need simple girls that dont complicate my life. I know love makes people do funny things but how can a normal guy voluntarily subject himself to a person who complicates his life and gives him a bunch of headaches.

U cant do anything now. She has to be the one that makes changes. Until then, u and her are nothing together.

Get on with your life. She knows your number and address. I truly wonder how she would react to the situation if the situations were reversed.

Forget her. Time will only tell. Get busy with u and your life. She made her decision now she has to live with it. Not your fault she constantly makes bad decisions in her life. Its a pattern with her.

Dont u think its time for u to have some peace in mind. U r too close to the situation to be rational/objective. We dont know the whole situation but i think we know enough about it to comment about it.

LEAVE HER ALONE. Time will tell if she is yours or not. LET GO. She has to decide, not u. So let her decide, that is the only way u will truly know if she is yours.

 

[Peak]

Poet, I am not being insensitve here but you need to stop telling yourself that this woman is THE ONE.

It sounds to me like she has too many problems and that the whole thing is getting you depressed.

I don't want that to happen.

You need to press the ejection seat on this chick and get on with life. Go find another tasty woman with fewer problems in life.

I know you can do it if you only try!

Best wishes,

Peak.