LTR can't handle communication differences, is their hope?

[VictorK]

Hello All,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who has come across a situation similar to mine.

- I am in a 3 year LTR with a nice girl but we've been having some big issues around our communication styles. Whenever there is an agruement, she can't handle me raising my voice. I'm not talking about yelling or screaming, just raising one's voice. I also talk with my hands, and she can't handle that either(i.e. me pointing at her). She is always telling me lower my voice to a monotone expression when we are in an agruement. (this is extremely tough to do)

- I have never been physically violent with a woman my entire life or in any relationship, yet she feels i could be just by me raising my voice. I have told her this is a crazy conclusion she has made which leads to more agruements. By her even thinking i could be violent with her, leads me to question if she really knows me after 3 years.

-she made us go to 'couple' councelling so i could learn not to raise my voice (remember i'm not yelling or throwing things or punching walls....just raising my voice in an agruement). This is very tough for me because my family and friends have all communicated the same way for 30 years.


Has anyone been in a similar situation before where the communicaiton styles with their partner weren't aligned? How was it resolved? It has gotten so bad for us right now we are on a break.

We are both on our last rope on this....

thanks everyone

 

[sodbuster]

COUPLES COUNSELING? She's trying to get you to change before marriage because you are wrong[in her mind. Bet you she still uses crying to get HER way. is she going to give up crying to win an argument?]The problem with counseling... if SHE isn't willing to change anything-nothing changes in your relationship. I'd say you are done... if not now,in a year or so.

Start looking for her replacement now[maybe don't break up yet,but it's coming]

 

[zekko]

Yeah, if you have to go to couples counseling before you even get married, that doesn't bode well. I think it's a bad sign she wants counseling anyway, because she wants to put the power of the relationship into a third party. Why can't you settle your differences between you? Another sign the relationship isn't very good.

Didn't someone say in a post recently that yelling is considered domestic abuse in California? I don't know if that's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

My own experience is that my better relationships have not been difficult, they have been very smooth. If you're not butting heads, you know you're both going the same way, and you've got a good match.

 

[betheman]

Hello All,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who has come across a situation similar to mine.

- I am in a 3 year LTR with a nice girl but we've been having some big issues around our communication styles. Whenever there is an agruement, she can't handle me raising my voice. I'm not talking about yelling or screaming, just raising one's voice. I also talk with my hands, and she can't handle that either(i.e. me pointing at her). She is always telling me lower my voice to a monotone expression when we are in an agruement. (this is extremely tough to do)

- I have never been physically violent with a woman my entire life or in any relationship, yet she feels i could be just by me raising my voice. I have told her this is a crazy conclusion she has made which leads to more agruements. By her even thinking i could be violent with her, leads me to question if she really knows me after 3 years.

-she made us go to 'couple' councelling so i could learn not to raise my voice (remember i'm not yelling or throwing things or punching walls....just raising my voice in an agruement). This is very tough for me because my family and friends have all communicated the same way for 30 years.


Has anyone been in a similar situation before where the communicaiton styles with their partner weren't aligned? How was it resolved? It has gotten so bad for us right now we are on a break.

We are both on our last rope on this....

thanks everyone

Sounds scarily like my last 2 yearLTR!

However I wasnt even alowed to answer most of the time, she would talk over me, her verbal dexterity was awesome, you literally couldnt get a word in, you then raise your voice and be sarcastically asked, why are you shouting?????

its headfccuk territory, she knows she is wrong or at least partly, rather than working with you, she wants to blame you, she cant take responsibility, I doubt she will change, can you? do you really want to? if you do, you will set a precedent.
I couldnt and wouldnt

 

[Die Hard]

She believes that you might get physically violent, then you try to convince her that you wouldn't... Tell me, do you recognize this as an interaction pattern that takes place between the two of you on other occasions as well? (Her thinking something "bad" about you, then you trying to prove her that she's wrong about you)

If so, then you need to stop this interaction pattern. And yes, it is up to YOU, not her. Sure, you can say that she has to stop whining, you can say that she has to start trusting you, that she needs to start believing you and needs to act more rational and blah, blah, blah. Trust me, she won't...

You have to set boundaries and stand up for yourself. You have to manage her behavior, she can't do it herself. Either she stops this nonsense about you raising your voice or you walk (the third option, accepting her bullsh!t, is not really an option). Be willing to walk away... If you stay on this path of 'trying to prove to her that she's wrong' and keep jumping through hoops, high and low, in order to prove yourself to her, you will lose. Actually, I think you've already lost...

To be totally honest with you, I suspect you're having a case of 'projecting your mommy onto your girlfriend'

Mommy: "You're a bad boy! Get out of my sight!"
Boy (crying): "No mommy, I'm a good boy, why can't you see?! I'm trying to prove it to you but you just won't see...boo hoo, sob, sob..."

Here's what I'd tell this witch of yours:

"Oh, so you don't like me raising my voice, huh?
(shouting as loud as you can now...) THEN GO FVCK YOURSELF!!! How you like that, huh? Now get out of my sight before I get physically violent on you..."

B!tches don't get to control you, they don't get to make you jump through all kinds of hoops. That is, unless you put her on a pedestal because you need her love and are willing to deny yourself and take sh!t from her, in order to receive her love...

Seriously, dude... I'm pissed off behind my computer here! You let her drag you to 'couple counselling'?!?! Where's your ego? Where's your self respect? It is clear that you are not in control of your own mind... SHE is...

 

[VictorK]

Appreciate the feedback gentlemen,

Depsite our current problems she is not a bad person and I don't wish her any ill will. I've shared some of my best experiences in life with this women and so there are good times as well that we have shared.

She always tells me that its not 'normal' for people to raise their voices in arguements, and that people who are successful in relationships always talk to their partners in a 'calm manner' 100% of the time. I don't believe this is a realistic thus I came here to see if members on our community thought the same way.

She is a very sensitive person, so I would never want to intentially hurt her or bring pain towards her. I am extremley concerned that my communication style, which i thought was normal, brings her so much pain. I don't know what will happen between us, but i guess i am not seeing the hope their that i once saw. From the viewpoints i've read, this relationship seems doomed.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Here's what I'd tell this witch of yours:

"Oh, so you don't like me raising my voice, huh?
(shouting as loud as you can now...) THEN GO FVCK YOURSELF!!! How you like that, huh? Now get out of my sight before I get physically violent on you..."

B!tches don't get to control you, they don't get to make you jump through all kinds of hoops. That is, unless you put her on a pedestal because you need her love and are willing to deny yourself and take sh!t from her, in order to receive her love...

The only problem with that is that she would walk away thinking to herself, "See, I KNEW I was right!" She will forever think that SHE dodged a bullet.

Before giving the OP advice I would really have to hear how he sounds exactly. He might be giving off a threatening vibe in which case he is largely at fault. Or, like many women, she could be using a direct sound in his voice as a means to control and threaten him. It all depends on what is really going on, and we can't really know that.

The bottom line seems to be, though, that she doesn't accept how he is. I remember hearing Tony Robbins in Personal Power saying that he and his then wife came from different types of families, where one resolved issues by being loud, and the other by talking softly. This naturally caused problems.

Is she over-sensitive? Probably. Is he too strong or direct for her? Could be both. Women can only take so much direct confrontation, that's for sure. Ive learned to work that, but it has taken years. Decades, actually. Now I know how far to go before she shuts down and exactly what to say before the shutdown occurs (I have a very strong and direct personality). This usually involves my making suggestions to her to "think about" this or that.

It's cool to have a strong and direct personality, but that absolutely must be offset by displays of gentleness. It makes those tougher times go a lot more smoothly. The gentleness does not diminish respect when applied sparingly but not too sparingly.

It does sound like she's very over-sensitive. But let me ask you, OP, is she someone who is capable of compromise and changing her position when faced with additional facts? I'm speaking strictly in general here. I'm going somewhere with this, but I need your honest evaluation of her capability to compromise and change before I continue.

 

[betheman]

Appreciate the feedback gentlemen,

Depsite our current problems she is not a bad person and I don't wish her any ill will. I've shared some of my best experiences in life with this women and so there are good times as well that we have shared.

She always tells me that its not 'normal' for people to raise their voices in arguements, and that people who are successful in relationships always talk to their partners in a 'calm manner' 100% of the time. I don't believe this is a realistic thus I came here to see if members on our community thought the same way.

She is a very sensitive person, so I would never want to intentially hurt her or bring pain towards her. I am extremley concerned that my communication style, which i thought was normal, brings her so much pain. I don't know what will happen between us, but i guess i am not seeing the hope their that i once saw. From the viewpoints i've read, this relationship seems doomed.

the first bit underlined is 100% bullshine! by the very nature of arguments, one or more parties at least becomes louder, arguments are emotional, what she appears to be saying is I cant cope with arguing when Im not in control or when I cant control you, as she is trying to do with statements like these.

has anyone ever had a problem with your style of arguing before? how has she coped with conflict with others?

 

[Atom Smasher]

the first bit underlined is 100% bullshine! by the very nature of arguments, one or more parties at least becomes louder, arguments are emotional, what she appears to be saying is I cant cope with arguing when Im not in control or when I cant control you, as she is trying to do with statements like these.

has anyone ever had a problem with your style of arguing before? how has she coped with conflict with others?

Zactly.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

What specifically are you arguing about so frequently that you'd consider couple's counseling when you're not even married? My guess is you're living together? How old is she?

There's a lot of this picture we're not seeing, please elaborate.

 

[Noodles]

I'm not talking about yelling or screaming, just raising one's voice. I also talk with my hands, and she can't handle that either(i.e. me pointing at her). She is always telling me lower my voice to a monotone expression when we are in an agruement. (this is extremely tough to do)

In the heat of the moment it's very hard to judge how you come across. A long time ago I went on a short leadership course for officers in the military. They got us worked up and had us have a go at someone and videoed it. I thought I was being loud, clear and expressive. When I watched the video back it looked like I was starting a fight - I simply didn't know how it looked from the outside. When I had the same experience given back to me I felt the adrenaline hit my system - even though I knew I was in a controlled environment, my body was getting ready for a fight.

Films and TV will often show people screaming at someone else (especially in the military) but it's seldom of any use, unless the aim to focus the recipients anger on the speaker.

Generally raising your voice and wild hand gestures show a lack of control on your part. This has the following effects on the recipient:
1. They know you've lost control and that your argument is weak.
2. They find it hard to understand your argument due to focusing on your raised voice and the perception of your increased size (hand movements).
3. They find themselves getting angry and either concentrate on keeping calm (meaning they pretty much have to ignore you) or end up losing it with you.

Either way, whatever you hoped to achieve is lost. Unless the point of the argument is to belittle the recipient (and it rarely is), you should look at some persuasive techniques. They are much more effective.

 

[Noodles]

"Oh, so you don't like me raising my voice, huh?
(shouting as loud as you can now...) THEN GO FVCK YOURSELF!!! How you like that, huh? Now get out of my sight before I get physically violent on you..."

B!tches don't get to control you, they don't get to make you jump through all kinds of hoops.

Then she has controlled you. The point of an argument is to discuss two opposing viewpoints, with the endgame being to reach an agreement that is acceptable to both parties. Hopefully you can show the other party that your view is the best for both parties, otherwise you compromise on a middle ground.

This is the same as you'd get at work when you discuss something. It's the same as you'd get when you talk with your friends down the pub. You wouldn't lose control with your friends or your work colleagues. And if you do, they think of you as a weaker man for it.

You shouldn't be letting her make you do that either, unless the point of the argument is to show her how upset you are. And that just makes you look weak.

 

[betheman]

lets cut to the chase here, women, especially in todays feminised clmate, know damn well that by telling a man to stop raising his voice/calm down is highly inflamatory and has the end result of A) inflaming the situation or B) Getting the man to sublimate, its a win win. if these two fail, the backup plan is ....'I dont want to discuss it anymore Im too upset' so your in the doghouse regardless!
is it just me who sees it this way? obviously there is more to this than meets the eye, context, subject matter, intonation etc but hell, its an easy and increasingly popular female tactic

 

[Noodles]

lets cut to the chase here, women, especially in todays feminised clmate, know damn well that by telling a man to stop raising his voice/calm down is highly inflamatory and has the end result of A) inflaming the situation or B) Getting the man to sublimate, its a win win. if these two fail, the backup plan is ....'I dont want to discuss it anymore Im too upset' so your in the doghouse regardless!
is it just me who sees it this way? obviously there is more to this than meets the eye, context, subject matter, intonation etc but hell, its an easy and increasingly popular female tactic

I always find the idea of things like tactics and evil Machiavellian women as slightly over the top - maybe I'm just lucky never have ran into this.

Having said that, I can see your point. It could well be that she's saying something like that to wind you up, and that shows that she's lost her cool.

However, you decide whether that gets you angry. You're still in control on yourself and you don't have to rise to the bait - if this is what it is.

As for sublimation - that depends on how you look at it. Good negotiation is about taking somebodies statement, agreeing with it and then setting up a roadmap that leads to them to your conclusions. Sometimes they even believe they've arrived at their conclusion themselves. The reason this is done is because everyone finds it easier to accept a statement they've been immersed in rather that accepted blindly. It will be more deeply ingrained and won't be simply lip service.

One of the techniques we used in the Marines was something called Agreement Frame. It's a persuasive technique that was very useful to develop rapport when we had to win over hearts and minds of very aggressive locals in Afghanistan.

Ultimately you need to decide whether you want:
1. Her to see your point of view and agree a course of action acceptable to both of you.
2. Have a fight.
3. Get her to do what you want.

I'm talking about the first. The second...well...if you like the drama that's up to you. The third is boring - who wants a slave?

 

[betheman]

I always find the idea of things like tactics and evil Machiavellian women as slightly over the top - maybe I'm just lucky never have ran into this.

I have



Ultimately you need to decide whether you want:
1. Her to see your point of view and agree a course of action acceptable to both of you.

we are talking about an emotional and sensitive woman here, often it her way or now way, agreement is out of the question, id rather deal with the afghans

 

[Noodles]

we are talking about an emotional and sensitive woman here, often it her way or now way, agreement is out of the question, id rather deal with the afghans

The original poster described her as very sensitive. This doesn't imply emotional. In fact sensitive people generally suffer from social anxiety and shyness. I would suggest she's more likely the kind of person that would try to avoid confrontations rather than escalating them. Only VictorK knows the answer to this though.

However, if VictorK does think that the picture being painted by betheman is more accurate (which to me seems to suggest someone that is randomly angry, sobbing, childish behaviour, sulking etc) then I would agree with him and the rest. I'm not a fan of drama so I'd walk away. But then I'm not a fan of relationships that last longer than 3 months either!

 

[Die Hard]

How strange... Am I really the only one who has got this figured out? Is it that hard to see?

VictorK is a guy who has no mind of his own and an unhealthy tendency to "follow" (always focusing on "what does she need from me?" instead of "what do I need from her?")

His girlfriend is a manipulative witch who is having her way with him, coz his personality (like I described above) is tailored for this.

 

[Die Hard]

Then she has controlled you. The point of an argument is to discuss two opposing viewpoints, with the endgame being to reach an agreement that is acceptable to both parties. Hopefully you can show the other party that your view is the best for both parties, otherwise you compromise on a middle ground.

That all sounds very nice, but it presupposes that both parties are being reasonable and "playing fair". This witch is not like that...

When there's some savage beast standing in front of you, about to bite your head off, you don't say "Come, savage beast. Let us reason together as civil beings..."

Oh, and this:

I always find the idea of things like tactics and evil Machiavellian women as slightly over the top - maybe I'm just lucky never have ran into this.

You're indeed a lucky man to never have run into this (or perhaps you have, but you just didn't recognize it). But at the same time this makes you a very naive man...

 

[Warrior74]

Haha she is Pwning you son. Using your normal male nature against you. You got pwned. Lots of peoplemakes loud sounds and wild gestures while arguing. She is nueturing you and training you and you are falling for it. It's what politicians call reframing the argument. So now the argument is not about the issues, its about your behavior.

If she can make you not argue the way you like, she had a better chance of controlling you. If she is really scared, she will leave. Sensitive is just code for "upset over the lack of control over you" my ex was "sensitive. Until she wasn't if you know what I mean.

Next time tell her to STFU and stop telling you what to do. Why are you arguing in the first place?

personally I don't argue. I tend to joke alot, and then when I'm pissed I get very very quiet and stop talking. Then I leave. But that's just my style. I'm not going to argue, fuss or fight. I'll just be single than put up with crap. For some reason chics love that.

 

[VictorK]

Appreciate the feedback everyone, I'll try and get to some questions I saw in the messaging:

Atom Smasher:

I think you hit the nail on the head. She doesn't accept this side of me and she has never been conditioned to have a man talk directly to her like i have done. I know this because I have seen her father and the way they communicate. I don't think he has ever raised his voice to her...hense why she is having a hard time dealing with raised voices when we argue. I am afraid it would take me such a long time to change my style because this is all i have known. I remember the tony robbins clip you mentioned...problem with that was he and his wife didn't last. Perhaps that is my omen.

She has given me her 'must list' which she says must be met in order for us to work. On the list, is me bring down my communication style. She said she won't compromise on this.

betheman:

no one has had issues with my communication style before. She said my family has been conditioned to my behavior thus they are used to it. She copes with conflict by talking it out in a calm monotone soft voice regardless of the seriousness of the discussion. This is really tough for me to do.

Rollo Tomassi:

We've had arguements over many things. From family to her perception to how i have behaved with her parents, etc. Its things that i really try to see her side on but can't seem to accept what she is saying. What really upset me is that she said to me that she feels i can't control my anger and i would get physically violent. This hurt me a lot because i have never hit a woman in my life and to question my control made me question how well she really knows me. Remeber im not yelling, throwing or making any threatening movements, and she accusses me of losing control and possibly getting violent.


Noodles:

I would love to video tape myself to see how it is. Here is my perception: I never say anything in my content that belittles her, insults her, calls her names. I don't swear, i am not yelling to where my face is red, etc.


My g/f is the type that doesn't have any issue with bringing up anything that has offended her. On certain things she will not compromise on, and this is one of them.