Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
I strongly disagree with the Men are from Mars nonsense. Gray is little better than a Carl Jung pop-psychologist shill making money from reinforcing women's feelings of victimization in a sexual arena because "they don't wanna." Men are from Mars is a bestseller because 90% of it's readership is female.
Gray fundamentally ignores the desire principle in both sexes and skirts around the conditions women and men place upon each other as terms for intimacy. For instance, why is it that women in their 20s tend to be more easily turned on than women in their 30s and 40s? While it is true that women have a cyclic process for arousal (certain times of the month) there are other external variables that confound his assertions. A woman may have just seen a Brad Pitt movie, just finished a hard workout at the gym or had just enough alcohol to loosen her inhibitions making her more amenable to sexual approach. This backs up Gray's assertion about women's 'On-Off' sex drive, but does little to address women's reasons for being so. It's not random chance or strictly a hormonal cycle that dictates her desire for sex.
Women's primary drive is towards security, their secondary drive is sex. With men this is reversed, sex being primary and security (really loyalty) being second. Conflict arises when the sex paradigm comes to negotiation - She wants security (or at least the prospect of it) before she relenquishes sex and he wants sex in order to acertain if she merits his potential security. This is why 'men don't call' after sex sometimes and women make pseudo-'friendships' to string guys along.
Why is it then that the most common sexual pheomenon is a period of intense sexual desire and activity for the first 3 to 6 months of a relationship tapering off to a less frequent regularity after this 'honeymoon period' and finally declining to routne sexual practices of even less frequency after marriage? If women were in fact cyclical as Gray claims, why does this pattern repeat itself with such predictability? If this was the case why do women cheat on their husbands? One would think that men would be the only dissatisfied partner if women were cyclical.
It comes down to personal conditions and the priorities both sexes place on those conditions as prerequisites for desire. As a relationship wears on desire wears off. In the early stages she is in an uncomfortable position of competition (whether percieved or real) with other women vying for that same security and her desire reflects this. That's not to discount her secondary drive of actually enjoying sex with a new person, but it will later affect her desire to continue to have a desire for sex once the competition anxiety is diminished or removed. This is why I've yet to encounter the man who told me how much more sex he was getting after marriage. This is the single most common complaint men have with their wives. It's not times of the month or spending enough time in foreplay to get her worked up - how much time did you need to 'turn her on' when you first started tearing each others clothes off in a semi-public place because she couldn't keep her hands off of you? It's about conditions and maintaining them in order to get what you both want.
You can make up all of the fantasies you want and convenient arrangements for your sexual gratifications, but a dead lay is a dead lay, making porno and masturbation a better alternative for a guy than fvcking his wife when she's got laundry to do and he's just one more chore to attend to.
Rollo,
I don't really know how many women or men read John Gray, all I know for sure is that Anti-Dump recommended it, and that I read it and found it to be an immensely insightful book.
In any case, Rollo, I think you and me are saying the same thing in different words. The most important thing for turning women on is challenge, making them compete to get you. I could not agree more with you. In both conversation and the bedroom, women are turned on through anticipation and imagination of their reward, and the possibility that they may not get what they want. Sex for men is much more physical than it is for women, who get the most turned on anticipating their reward. Women, in short, are turned on by men with the self-assurance to leave them hanging - that way, they'll never know what to expect. This is what women seek in and out of the bedroom.
KK, in the short term, give this girl the gift of missing you, then challenge her more in conversation, then initiate to get what you want. Most of all, follow your gut. In the longer term, if Gray is right that women operate in cycles (though the size of these cycles change with age), men will want sex more regularly than women. If Gray is right, for your relationship to survive, you need to get sex from her sometimes even when she's not really in the mood. Pretty easy though, she doesn't have to do anything but sit there
"Negotiate for quickies" is Gray's advice, and whatever the merits of his other ideas, I can't think of any reason why I or Rollo should disagree. Quickies are the key to sexual happiness, just as much as amazing sex is, which I'm sure you're well on your way to discovering with C&F and more challenging. I'm absolutely confident that if this girl loves you, you're already well on your way to the best, most frequent sex of your life. Good luck man,
Izza
P.S. I strongly agree with the advice posted by Rollo, Qmanchoo. They're giving priceless advice.
I
P.P.S. Don't confront her with this, but please remember that 'can't find time' is the lamest excuse ever for no sex. When women want sex, believe me, they MAKE time. Be patient my friend, she'll come around, and if she doesn't come around, I know you'll find women who want to tear your clothes off and make you the happiest man alive.
I
