Well ive noticed that my gurl has started to act more lovy dovey with me but somehow she seems less and less wanting to have sex, we even talk about it less. If i take charge then she might see me a a sex hungry guy which isnt good. I want to tell her hey lets have sex when and where, but she usually picks the place and time. We dont get much alone time. So now do u guys suggest that i pick the next time and place, im sure she will be fine. But is there a way to bring back the sexual drive in her.
Loves me but sex drive is going down
- Thread starter kk2004
- Start date
themanwithnoname
Senior Don Juan
pinch her nipples and while you're doing that, pinch your nipples.
School
Banned
How long you been with her?? She is too young to be losing the drive already..
Sure it is. You should be a sex hungry guy. Don't make any apologies for being a sexual creature. If she can't handle the pace, find someone who can. There are plenty of great girls out there who love to have sex. Nothing wrong with being a love hungry man.
spider_007
Master Don Juan
what's that I see... down the road??????? what is that?? humm, Could it be..........TROUBLE!!!!!!!!, Yap that's it, I see trouble down the road for you guys.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
How long have you been seeing this one? Why are you not seeing other women as well? You want to know why she's turning the spigot down on sex while simultaneously turning up the lovey stuff? Look no further than the fact that she's becoming more comfortable with the idea of her being your only source of intimacy and sex.
It's the same dynamic for women after marriage; the guy is contractually and psychologically locked in, meaning she no longer feels the need (or at least a pressing need) to compete with other women for your security and attention.
If you want her to get buck wild again you'll have to push the envelope with her and snatch away her security blanket. Most guy's wont do this because they don't undersand their own value in her estimations and are fearful of "ruining a great thing" even though the 'great thing' is progressively becoming not what they'd bargained for. It's bait & switch.
You have to understand the fundamentals of power in relationships:
In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.
You have to be confident enough to risk your relationship by cutting off your own attention and putting her back into a state of competition in order to get her to respond. Now some guys and most women will advise you to "express your feelings to her", explain your frustration and ask her to be more sexual with you, to which I'll say, this-never-works (partiuclarly in the long term). First of all this assumes she's mature enough in her own understanding of herself to recognize she is in fact getting comfortable and feels less of a need to trade sex for your attention/security. And secondly, it puts you into at least her perception of you 'begging' for more sex which only reinforces her understanding that you'll compromise yourself for her expectations in exchange for sexual intimacy.
This is a defining sh!t test, are you confident enough to walk if she isn't meeting your expectations of frequent sex? If you aren't she will eventually find another guy who is and you'll be left frustrated saying to yourself "I did everything she expected and only got limited sex, yet she ended up fvcking her personal trainer every other day, who couldn't care less about her. I wonder what's wrong with me?" Better to pass the sh!t test now with the prospect of her being put off than fail it and beg her for sex in an LTR that will eventually falter because of it.
It's the same dynamic for women after marriage; the guy is contractually and psychologically locked in, meaning she no longer feels the need (or at least a pressing need) to compete with other women for your security and attention.
If you want her to get buck wild again you'll have to push the envelope with her and snatch away her security blanket. Most guy's wont do this because they don't undersand their own value in her estimations and are fearful of "ruining a great thing" even though the 'great thing' is progressively becoming not what they'd bargained for. It's bait & switch.
You have to understand the fundamentals of power in relationships:
In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.
You have to be confident enough to risk your relationship by cutting off your own attention and putting her back into a state of competition in order to get her to respond. Now some guys and most women will advise you to "express your feelings to her", explain your frustration and ask her to be more sexual with you, to which I'll say, this-never-works (partiuclarly in the long term). First of all this assumes she's mature enough in her own understanding of herself to recognize she is in fact getting comfortable and feels less of a need to trade sex for your attention/security. And secondly, it puts you into at least her perception of you 'begging' for more sex which only reinforces her understanding that you'll compromise yourself for her expectations in exchange for sexual intimacy.
This is a defining sh!t test, are you confident enough to walk if she isn't meeting your expectations of frequent sex? If you aren't she will eventually find another guy who is and you'll be left frustrated saying to yourself "I did everything she expected and only got limited sex, yet she ended up fvcking her personal trainer every other day, who couldn't care less about her. I wonder what's wrong with me?" Better to pass the sh!t test now with the prospect of her being put off than fail it and beg her for sex in an LTR that will eventually falter because of it.
Qmanchoo
Don Juan
Rollo Tomassi, very well stated and very true 
You're swaying away from the sexy guy side and more towards the platonic friend side through the way you're acting/communicating when you're around her. Lovey dovey comments are always a red flag to me since they should always be sparing.
I've been where you are a few times, beware man, this leads to "Hun, we need to talk about "us"" real soon.
Do you find that she gets b!tchy with you for no reason? Call her up an you get insta b!tch for no reason? You might get that pretty soon. (last ditch test by a girl to find out if you're at least a base level man and will argue with her and put her in her place if she's being a b!tch)
You may not be doing things that she's sexually turned on by anymore (showing your sexy traits). Showing that other women want you is the big one (like Rollo mentioned), showing that you're dominant over her through strength (not being harmful but playfully holding her arms and not letting her squirm out or something similar), or intellect...when women observe you being really smart or smarter than her it can be a turn on, being a tease and playing hard to get (you'll get sex when I give it, not when you want! playful of course), not giving her something that she wants, not being lovey dovey (friend stuf! ugh! Needs to be sparing!) all the time, sexy talk to get her turned on, be unpredictable ( say one thing, do another, make witty comments, do something off the wall, say something off the wall in an off key situation) sexual touching/teasing (not constant, but a little touch in one of her "soft spots" and draw back, exciting experiences that really get the sexual juices flowing, come up behind her and nibble on her neck and whisper something sexy in her ear...
Or how about this one.
TAKING CHARGE.
That’s usually a big turn on because it says the right things about you on an emotional level to a woman.
"If i take charge then she might see me a a sex hungry guy which isn’t good." - This quote by you is probably the #1 reason why you're not getting it as much as you want or have it on call! Because a sex hungry man wouldn't ask that question, he'd be fvckign his GF instead of posting on sosuave. That's not to make you feel bad, but just so you can recognize "Oh, damn, I'm doing something wrong here and I need to fix it, and now I know what"
And be able to recognize when she wants it so you can rock her world on a whim, when she gets that longing look in her eyes, starts getting playful, insinuating innuendos when you are alone, always misinterpret it as wanting to have sex... because she should want most of the time if she's sexually attracted to you.
Anyway, hope this helps, but I am 100% sure that if you don't reinstate your manhood at some level (and not by being a macho man or yelling at her or something 3rd grade like that) you're relationship is going to end soon.
ok and last but not least...
Best friends act a certain way towards each other. They do certain things that make them friends. Help her out = friend action = friend feeling.
Sexually attractive men act a certain way. They do certain things that make them very sexual. Don't take anyone’s sh!t = strength = sexy = sexual feelings from the girl.
You can be a best friend and a sexually attractive man at the same time HOWEVER you need to strike a 70 (sexually attractive man) 30 (best friend) balance at WORST if you want the relationship to last, meaning more sexy man less best friend.
Anyway, hope that helps ya man.
You're swaying away from the sexy guy side and more towards the platonic friend side through the way you're acting/communicating when you're around her. Lovey dovey comments are always a red flag to me since they should always be sparing.
I've been where you are a few times, beware man, this leads to "Hun, we need to talk about "us"" real soon.
Do you find that she gets b!tchy with you for no reason? Call her up an you get insta b!tch for no reason? You might get that pretty soon. (last ditch test by a girl to find out if you're at least a base level man and will argue with her and put her in her place if she's being a b!tch)
You may not be doing things that she's sexually turned on by anymore (showing your sexy traits). Showing that other women want you is the big one (like Rollo mentioned), showing that you're dominant over her through strength (not being harmful but playfully holding her arms and not letting her squirm out or something similar), or intellect...when women observe you being really smart or smarter than her it can be a turn on, being a tease and playing hard to get (you'll get sex when I give it, not when you want! playful of course), not giving her something that she wants, not being lovey dovey (friend stuf! ugh! Needs to be sparing!) all the time, sexy talk to get her turned on, be unpredictable ( say one thing, do another, make witty comments, do something off the wall, say something off the wall in an off key situation) sexual touching/teasing (not constant, but a little touch in one of her "soft spots" and draw back, exciting experiences that really get the sexual juices flowing, come up behind her and nibble on her neck and whisper something sexy in her ear...
Or how about this one.
TAKING CHARGE.
That’s usually a big turn on because it says the right things about you on an emotional level to a woman.
"If i take charge then she might see me a a sex hungry guy which isn’t good." - This quote by you is probably the #1 reason why you're not getting it as much as you want or have it on call! Because a sex hungry man wouldn't ask that question, he'd be fvckign his GF instead of posting on sosuave. That's not to make you feel bad, but just so you can recognize "Oh, damn, I'm doing something wrong here and I need to fix it, and now I know what"
And be able to recognize when she wants it so you can rock her world on a whim, when she gets that longing look in her eyes, starts getting playful, insinuating innuendos when you are alone, always misinterpret it as wanting to have sex... because she should want most of the time if she's sexually attracted to you.
Anyway, hope this helps, but I am 100% sure that if you don't reinstate your manhood at some level (and not by being a macho man or yelling at her or something 3rd grade like that) you're relationship is going to end soon.
ok and last but not least...
Best friends act a certain way towards each other. They do certain things that make them friends. Help her out = friend action = friend feeling.
Sexually attractive men act a certain way. They do certain things that make them very sexual. Don't take anyone’s sh!t = strength = sexy = sexual feelings from the girl.
You can be a best friend and a sexually attractive man at the same time HOWEVER you need to strike a 70 (sexually attractive man) 30 (best friend) balance at WORST if you want the relationship to last, meaning more sexy man less best friend.
Anyway, hope that helps ya man.
MindOverMatter
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
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- 1,889
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- 12
May as well cut off your penis now then, cause with that attitude you wont need it.
okay
okay, I listined to your adivce and I know i have been lovey dovy with her but I also make C&F comments and act ****y. Today I told her to not go shopping on friday and to spend time with me on fridya instead to go watch a movie and do what i want. She wanted to shop I told her to shop Sunday and she said okay. I told her we would hang out firday then I told her I made plans with my friends and she said "okay i dont want you to disappoint them"
So i first made her change her plans from friday to Sunday then i told her I couldnt make it friday.
I need to bring back control and dominance and stop all the friend bull****. I have confidence and im ****y and i am funny, i make good convo, im good, i just need to ration my time wisely, becuase she doesnt apprectiate my time and needs as she thinks her 's are.
okay, I listined to your adivce and I know i have been lovey dovy with her but I also make C&F comments and act ****y. Today I told her to not go shopping on friday and to spend time with me on fridya instead to go watch a movie and do what i want. She wanted to shop I told her to shop Sunday and she said okay. I told her we would hang out firday then I told her I made plans with my friends and she said "okay i dont want you to disappoint them"
So i first made her change her plans from friday to Sunday then i told her I couldnt make it friday.
I need to bring back control and dominance and stop all the friend bull****. I have confidence and im ****y and i am funny, i make good convo, im good, i just need to ration my time wisely, becuase she doesnt apprectiate my time and needs as she thinks her 's are.
TillTheEndOfTime
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
- Messages
- 1,933
- Reaction score
- 59
Re: Re: Loves me but sex drive is going down
Yeah. They're called WH0RES.
Yeah. They're called WH0RES.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
The problem with C&F when you are IN a relationship is that the woman becomes used to it and thus the potency wears off as compared to when you're not exclusive. C&F is novel in this stage because it sets you apart from the herd of Nice guys willing to placate themselves in exchange for her intimacy. C&F makes you an anomaly in this regard. In a relationship however, C&F still serves a purpose, but it's dilluted by how she really sees you at this point, especially if she's become comfortable enough to ration sex to you.
It's not a C&F thing, it's a control thing. You have to imply by your words and behaviors that she isn't so important to you that you'll compromise your own needs in order to get her to 'come around'. Rather, you need to communicate to her that you are the commodity and if she has no genuine desire for you, you have the confidence to find intimacy elsewhere.
Bear in mnd that women communicate much differently than men and have a much better capacity to interpret sublty. The small implications that you may not think are significant from a male point of communication are analyzed and processed meticulously by women. Women can read more information from a glance or an expression than men (even in the same room) are even aware of. Use this to your advantage in conveying to her the message that you are capable of getting it from somewhere else if she continues in her behavior without stating this directly.
Women prefer covert communication to overt communication. Telling her you're out if she doesn't put out is only going to force the issue and she'll be justified (to herself) in telling you to p!ss off. However, by implying this message to her in your resolute actions and carefully chosen innuendos, she'll be put in the position of second guessing you (putting her back into competition) and having the added bonus of returning you to a status of being a challenge again, which is what attracted her to you in the first place.
It's not a C&F thing, it's a control thing. You have to imply by your words and behaviors that she isn't so important to you that you'll compromise your own needs in order to get her to 'come around'. Rather, you need to communicate to her that you are the commodity and if she has no genuine desire for you, you have the confidence to find intimacy elsewhere.
Bear in mnd that women communicate much differently than men and have a much better capacity to interpret sublty. The small implications that you may not think are significant from a male point of communication are analyzed and processed meticulously by women. Women can read more information from a glance or an expression than men (even in the same room) are even aware of. Use this to your advantage in conveying to her the message that you are capable of getting it from somewhere else if she continues in her behavior without stating this directly.
Women prefer covert communication to overt communication. Telling her you're out if she doesn't put out is only going to force the issue and she'll be justified (to herself) in telling you to p!ss off. However, by implying this message to her in your resolute actions and carefully chosen innuendos, she'll be put in the position of second guessing you (putting her back into competition) and having the added bonus of returning you to a status of being a challenge again, which is what attracted her to you in the first place.
squirrels
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2003
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- 6,628
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- 45
Re: okay
Just be direct about what you want from her, and if she doesn't want to give it to you, then just spend less time doing stuff with her you DON'T want to do.
She'll get the idea...or she'll move on. It's immaterial which.
Don't get to where you're playing games with her or going back on your commitments.
Just be direct about what you want from her, and if she doesn't want to give it to you, then just spend less time doing stuff with her you DON'T want to do.
She'll get the idea...or she'll move on. It's immaterial which.
Caldus
Senior Don Juan
Re: Re: Re: Loves me but sex drive is going down
Originally posted by TillTheEndOfTime
Yeah. They're called WH0RES.
izza
Master Don Juan
kk,
A lot of what I have to say comes from a book by John Gray, backed up by my personal experience. One thing it's very important to realize is that men and women are very different sexual creatures, and it's really hard for one to understand the other. Especially different are men and women's cycles for desiring sex, what arouses them, and what makes them feel loved.
Womens desire for sex goes on and off, on and off. Sometimes they can orgasm, sometimes they can't. Sometimes they're in the mood, sometimes they're not. For men, this can be disturbing since, especially at our age, many men want sex all the time. Of course it varies from one woman to the next and one man to the next, but for healthy people this is usually the case.
For men, women's cycles can be confusing, or downright scary. I would say THE most important thing is that the two of you come to some sort of arrangement that allows both of you to be sexually fulfilled. Both parties should be prepared to *ahem* take care of themselves from time to time, but still, a good sex life makes love (and desire for sex) grow, and that's a fact.
There are two major blocades to mutual fulfillment. First, men can be turned on quickly while women can sometimes take 20-30 minutes to be fully, fully turned on. For men, this time can be less than a minute. For men, direct stimulation turns us on, for women, it takes teasing and preparation for direct stimulation. This can be confusing for both parties.
The other blocade is that women receive the most fulfillment from cuddling and the general loving feelings of sex. Men feel the most loving directly after sex. Men desire sex all the time because it allows us to be at our most loving. Women do not understand this and it is VERY IMPORTANT THAT SHE UNDERSTAND. Women don't understand this naturally, but I disagree with you. There is no shame in wanting sex all the time, never apologize. It is your manly nature. In order for your dreams to come true you have to admit how much you like sex to yourself and to her.
As for how to bring back her sexual drive there are a few prerequistes. Women will feel sexual drive as long as they do not:
resent you, feel the balance of favors is unequal, feel loved and cherished, feel your masculinity, as long as the mood is right (sometimes you have to wait). The other thing that's confusing for us men is that women often DON'T EVEN KNOW if they want sex. This is definitely weird, but sometimes it takes initiation on your part, or just plain asking to find out. One way to increase her desire for sex is to take the pressure off her. Sex shouldn't always be a two-way street, where both sides orgasm etc. Sometimes, it's better as a one-way street, where just the guy gets off, and the woman doesn't have to do much. Sounds pretty selfish for guys, but it's the key to mutual fulfillment, since the guy becomes happy and more loving (and more than willing to cuddle and so forth).
Let me know if this helps. Most of the advice I've given you is for people who are in longer term relationships (what I'm more or less reading about). Maybe a lot of what I'm saying, where you discuss these things in depth with women is a bit heady for your relationship. I don't know. I highly recommend that you read the book Mars and Venus in the bedroom, though, it is a gold mine of useful information. Good luck, and my PMs are always open.
Izza
A lot of what I have to say comes from a book by John Gray, backed up by my personal experience. One thing it's very important to realize is that men and women are very different sexual creatures, and it's really hard for one to understand the other. Especially different are men and women's cycles for desiring sex, what arouses them, and what makes them feel loved.
Womens desire for sex goes on and off, on and off. Sometimes they can orgasm, sometimes they can't. Sometimes they're in the mood, sometimes they're not. For men, this can be disturbing since, especially at our age, many men want sex all the time. Of course it varies from one woman to the next and one man to the next, but for healthy people this is usually the case.
For men, women's cycles can be confusing, or downright scary. I would say THE most important thing is that the two of you come to some sort of arrangement that allows both of you to be sexually fulfilled. Both parties should be prepared to *ahem* take care of themselves from time to time, but still, a good sex life makes love (and desire for sex) grow, and that's a fact.
There are two major blocades to mutual fulfillment. First, men can be turned on quickly while women can sometimes take 20-30 minutes to be fully, fully turned on. For men, this time can be less than a minute. For men, direct stimulation turns us on, for women, it takes teasing and preparation for direct stimulation. This can be confusing for both parties.
The other blocade is that women receive the most fulfillment from cuddling and the general loving feelings of sex. Men feel the most loving directly after sex. Men desire sex all the time because it allows us to be at our most loving. Women do not understand this and it is VERY IMPORTANT THAT SHE UNDERSTAND. Women don't understand this naturally, but I disagree with you. There is no shame in wanting sex all the time, never apologize. It is your manly nature. In order for your dreams to come true you have to admit how much you like sex to yourself and to her.
As for how to bring back her sexual drive there are a few prerequistes. Women will feel sexual drive as long as they do not:
resent you, feel the balance of favors is unequal, feel loved and cherished, feel your masculinity, as long as the mood is right (sometimes you have to wait). The other thing that's confusing for us men is that women often DON'T EVEN KNOW if they want sex. This is definitely weird, but sometimes it takes initiation on your part, or just plain asking to find out. One way to increase her desire for sex is to take the pressure off her. Sex shouldn't always be a two-way street, where both sides orgasm etc. Sometimes, it's better as a one-way street, where just the guy gets off, and the woman doesn't have to do much. Sounds pretty selfish for guys, but it's the key to mutual fulfillment, since the guy becomes happy and more loving (and more than willing to cuddle and so forth).
Let me know if this helps. Most of the advice I've given you is for people who are in longer term relationships (what I'm more or less reading about). Maybe a lot of what I'm saying, where you discuss these things in depth with women is a bit heady for your relationship. I don't know. I highly recommend that you read the book Mars and Venus in the bedroom, though, it is a gold mine of useful information. Good luck, and my PMs are always open.
Izza
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
I strongly disagree with the Men are from Mars nonsense. Gray is little better than a Carl Jung pop-psychologist shill making money from reinforcing women's feelings of victimization in a sexual arena because "they don't wanna." Men are from Mars is a bestseller because 90% of it's readership is female.
Gray fundamentally ignores the desire principle in both sexes and skirts around the conditions women and men place upon each other as terms for intimacy. For instance, why is it that women in their 20s tend to be more easily turned on than women in their 30s and 40s? While it is true that women have a cyclic process for arousal (certain times of the month) there are other external variables that confound his assertions. A woman may have just seen a Brad Pitt movie, just finished a hard workout at the gym or had just enough alcohol to loosen her inhibitions making her more amenable to sexual approach. This backs up Gray's assertion about women's 'On-Off' sex drive, but does little to address women's reasons for being so. It's not random chance or strictly a hormonal cycle that dictates her desire for sex.
Women's primary drive is towards security, their secondary drive is sex. With men this is reversed, sex being primary and security (really loyalty) being second. Conflict arises when the sex paradigm comes to negotiation - She wants security (or at least the prospect of it) before she relenquishes sex and he wants sex in order to acertain if she merits his potential security. This is why 'men don't call' after sex sometimes and women make pseudo-'friendships' to string guys along.
Why is it then that the most common sexual pheomenon is a period of intense sexual desire and activity for the first 3 to 6 months of a relationship tapering off to a less frequent regularity after this 'honeymoon period' and finally declining to routne sexual practices of even less frequency after marriage? If women were in fact cyclical as Gray claims, why does this pattern repeat itself with such predictability? If this was the case why do women cheat on their husbands? One would think that men would be the only dissatisfied partner if women were cyclical.
It comes down to personal conditions and the priorities both sexes place on those conditions as prerequisites for desire. As a relationship wears on desire wears off. In the early stages she is in an uncomfortable position of competition (whether percieved or real) with other women vying for that same security and her desire reflects this. That's not to discount her secondary drive of actually enjoying sex with a new person, but it will later affect her desire to continue to have a desire for sex once the competition anxiety is diminished or removed. This is why I've yet to encounter the man who told me how much more sex he was getting after marriage. This is the single most common complaint men have with their wives. It's not times of the month or spending enough time in foreplay to get her worked up - how much time did you need to 'turn her on' when you first started tearing each others clothes off in a semi-public place because she couldn't keep her hands off of you? It's about conditions and maintaining them in order to get what you both want.
You can make up all of the fantasies you want and convenient arrangements for your sexual gratifications, but a dead lay is a dead lay, making porno and masturbation a better alternative for a guy than fvcking his wife when she's got laundry to do and he's just one more chore to attend to.
Gray fundamentally ignores the desire principle in both sexes and skirts around the conditions women and men place upon each other as terms for intimacy. For instance, why is it that women in their 20s tend to be more easily turned on than women in their 30s and 40s? While it is true that women have a cyclic process for arousal (certain times of the month) there are other external variables that confound his assertions. A woman may have just seen a Brad Pitt movie, just finished a hard workout at the gym or had just enough alcohol to loosen her inhibitions making her more amenable to sexual approach. This backs up Gray's assertion about women's 'On-Off' sex drive, but does little to address women's reasons for being so. It's not random chance or strictly a hormonal cycle that dictates her desire for sex.
Women's primary drive is towards security, their secondary drive is sex. With men this is reversed, sex being primary and security (really loyalty) being second. Conflict arises when the sex paradigm comes to negotiation - She wants security (or at least the prospect of it) before she relenquishes sex and he wants sex in order to acertain if she merits his potential security. This is why 'men don't call' after sex sometimes and women make pseudo-'friendships' to string guys along.
Why is it then that the most common sexual pheomenon is a period of intense sexual desire and activity for the first 3 to 6 months of a relationship tapering off to a less frequent regularity after this 'honeymoon period' and finally declining to routne sexual practices of even less frequency after marriage? If women were in fact cyclical as Gray claims, why does this pattern repeat itself with such predictability? If this was the case why do women cheat on their husbands? One would think that men would be the only dissatisfied partner if women were cyclical.
It comes down to personal conditions and the priorities both sexes place on those conditions as prerequisites for desire. As a relationship wears on desire wears off. In the early stages she is in an uncomfortable position of competition (whether percieved or real) with other women vying for that same security and her desire reflects this. That's not to discount her secondary drive of actually enjoying sex with a new person, but it will later affect her desire to continue to have a desire for sex once the competition anxiety is diminished or removed. This is why I've yet to encounter the man who told me how much more sex he was getting after marriage. This is the single most common complaint men have with their wives. It's not times of the month or spending enough time in foreplay to get her worked up - how much time did you need to 'turn her on' when you first started tearing each others clothes off in a semi-public place because she couldn't keep her hands off of you? It's about conditions and maintaining them in order to get what you both want.
You can make up all of the fantasies you want and convenient arrangements for your sexual gratifications, but a dead lay is a dead lay, making porno and masturbation a better alternative for a guy than fvcking his wife when she's got laundry to do and he's just one more chore to attend to.